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  #61  
Old 05-24-2016, 01:41 PM
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Thanks to everyone offering recommendations!

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Originally Posted by Jeanie View Post
Spider-Man and the X-Men was both the best Spider-Man book and the best X-Men book in the last five years.
This is something I did read and loved. It's a weird exception to me being out of touch because the writer (Eliott Kalan) is a host of one of my favorite podcasts (The Flop House). Was Wolverine and the X-Men that led into it any good?

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I'd also suggest the most recent X-Factor for similar weird team that works reasons (also, Peter David), but it also got axed way too soon.
I read the first two Complete Collections of this and liked it, but then they stopped making them. Someday I should probably just give in and get Marvel Unlimited, I guess. But I like reading comics on paper...
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  #62  
Old 05-24-2016, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post

This is something I did read and loved. It's a weird exception to me being out of touch because the writer (Eliott Kalan) is a host of one of my favorite podcasts (The Flop House). Was Wolverine and the X-Men that led into it any good?

.
Eh, kinda hit or miss actually. Frankenstein's Murder Circus arc was in the Pretty Good range but the Hellfire Academy arc was bleh. If you can get it for cheap, then go ahead and read it, but otherwise read something else first.
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  #63  
Old 05-24-2016, 04:52 PM
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The detective agency era of X-Factor is also good stuff, so that would be my recommendation.
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  #64  
Old 05-24-2016, 05:30 PM
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Uncanny X-Force had some cool ideas but the execution lacked and it relied too heavily on bodycount for dramatic impact
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  #65  
Old 05-26-2016, 10:17 AM
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I'm reading Whedon's Astonishing run for the first time and I absolutely don't get how this gets grouped together with Morrison's run. It lacks Morrison's high concept approach, and the central villains so far as Generic Alien Guy and also Evil Holodeck. I guess he gets points for being consistently bland, because Generic Alien Guy and Evil Holodeck are also the villains in his two Avengers movies.

Worse, I skimmed through the back half of the run and Generic Alien Guy and also Evil Holodeck keep showing up in panels???

I'm not saying it's awful. It's fine I guess. It's a perfectly okay superhero book. But it's definitely not the successor to Morrison's run on New X-Men that I kept hearing it framed as.
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  #66  
Old 05-26-2016, 10:23 AM
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Well, it does include one of Whedon's most overused tropes...
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  #67  
Old 05-26-2016, 10:28 AM
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Also: He seems to want to show that he's a True Nerd who, unlike Morrison, Cares About You and Your Continuity, but he also seems to not have noticed that Cassandra Nova is Ernst now. Oops.

...it's possible this will get resolved because there's clearly a lot of weird psychic trickery in the storyline I'm in the middle of, but the flashback with Nova/Frost seems to suggest otherwise.
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  #68  
Old 05-26-2016, 10:48 AM
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Most of what people give the Whedon run credit for is getting the character voices right.

That, and having John Cassaday on art.

Also, in terms of recent X-Men stuff that I've really enjoyed:

Kieron Gillen's runs on Uncanny X-Men were great except that he has Greg Land drawing most of it, and it kept getting interrupted by big events that sidetracked it. The story where Minster Sinister builds an underground steampunk 1890s London populated entirely by clones of himself is amazing, though.

"Interrupted by big events" also applies to Cullen Bunn's Magneto, which starts off as a great, tense story about Magneto travelling around the US rooting out anti-mutant operations and destroying them, then gets derailed by AXIS, then has him trying to rebuild Genosha, then finishes with a bullshit 3-issue Secret Wars tie-in.

Duane Swercynski's Cable has Cable running through a dark future trying to raise a baby (Hope, the "mutant messiah"), while being hunted by Bishop, who gradually destroys the entire world trying to narrow down the places where Cable could hide. It's better than it sounds, trust me.

I love virtually all of Jason Aaron's run on Wolverine & The X-Men. It's a really hijinks-heavy school story with the X-Men serving as really cranky teachers for a fun group of younger mutants. If you enjoyed "Riot at Xavier's" from the Morrison run, imagine a more cartoony take on that kind of story. Skip the second volume that Jason Latour did afterwards, it wasn't very good.
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  #69  
Old 05-26-2016, 08:15 PM
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Whedon's run is basically an X-Men's greatest hits. He doesn't bring much new to the book, but he executes his stories pretty well. Also, it is easy to forget how terrible every X-Men book was for nearly a decade before Morrison and then again immediately after him, so Whedon coming along with a solid take on the team felt like a Godsend.
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  #70  
Old 05-27-2016, 07:22 AM
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I think more specifically it was bringing back a core group of the Claremont years that made it special for me. Typical Whedon-isms in storytelling got to me, but damn if it didn't feel good to have Storm/Colossus/Wolverine/Kitty back together.

And Cyclops too, I guess.
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  #71  
Old 05-27-2016, 08:16 AM
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I know people really shit on Greg Land but it was his run with Gillen that got me back into comics again...
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  #72  
Old 05-27-2016, 08:16 AM
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I think he's not too bad as long as you don't pay too much attention to which poses definitely came from porn
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  #73  
Old 05-27-2016, 08:17 AM
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Every time I see this thread I think it's asking about the best actual X-Men.

And the answer is clearly a tie between Nightcrawler, Colossus, Kitty and Storm.

Like, how can there be debate on this?
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  #74  
Old 05-27-2016, 08:19 AM
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You're looking for "What is the best X-Man?"
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  #75  
Old 05-27-2016, 08:51 AM
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That's why I figured listing more then one would be acceptable.

That and I couldn't pick just one.
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  #76  
Old 05-27-2016, 08:54 AM
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I finished Whedon's run.

What a waste of Kitty to jerry-rig some stakes for this bland as hell story about generic aliens no one cares about. I can't believe he spent almost the entirety of 25 issues on Generic Alien Guy(s) and Evil Holodeck.
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  #77  
Old 05-27-2016, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
I think he's not too bad as long as you don't pay too much attention to which poses definitely came from porn
Or the WWE, or the swimsuit issues of Sports Illustrated or

See the sad part is he's not a super bad artist when he's not ripping off everything else ever. He's not great, but he's not awful.

The problem is he's one of the most prolific plagiarists, if not the most prolific plagiarist, in the industry.
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  #78  
Old 05-27-2016, 09:08 AM
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Greg Land is fine at drawing everything that isn't people's faces. It's why his Iron Man run is his best stuff, because he was mostly drawing people in masks and/or robot suits.

Every time he draws Emma Frost it makes me cringe, though.

Or this panel of of Pixie getting beaten by bigots:
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  #79  
Old 05-27-2016, 09:12 AM
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Looks like he copied that from a woman singing.
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  #80  
Old 05-27-2016, 09:14 AM
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She loves being clubbed with a baseball bat!
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  #81  
Old 05-27-2016, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
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She loves being clubbed with a baseball bat!
NO KINKSHAMING
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  #82  
Old 05-27-2016, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Orbit View Post
Looks like he copied that from a woman singing.
A woman "singing" about the sweet mystery of life, sure.
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  #83  
Old 05-27-2016, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
A woman "singing" about the sweet mystery of life, sure.
It honestly doesn't look like a porn copy to me. Looks like he copied some opera singer or somebody that sings with a very open mouth and just tweaked the eyes some.

BTW, nice reference to a good movie.

Last edited by Moon Orbit; 05-27-2016 at 09:35 AM. Reason: added shit lol
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  #84  
Old 05-27-2016, 10:07 AM
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Even putting aside Land's inappropriate models and outright plagiarism (which is tough, especially because it means he's incapable of drawing a woman without objectifying her, but bear with me), I think he's still goddamn awful. He has no sense of visual storytelling; there's never any sense of motion or dynamism to his stuff, his panel layouts are inept, and the panels themselves are often difficult to work out. It's just terrible, incompetent work all around.
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  #85  
Old 05-27-2016, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
I think he's still goddamn awful. He has no sense of visual storytelling
Which is the logical outcome when you basically assemble your panels by first looking through your stash of reference materials and digitally cut out what you want. It's impossible to maintain basic panel-to-panel storytelling because the images weren't meant to flow together in the first place.

(He wasn't AS bad during his Birds of Prey / Nightwing days*, but it got noticeable there at the end... then he went to Marvel and it got REALLY bad. His Ultimate FF run is like 90% pornface.)

Quote:
You're looking for "What is the best X-Man?"
Isn't there literally only one answer to that question?
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  #86  
Old 05-27-2016, 01:31 PM
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Surprisingly, X-Man is one of the worst X-Mans.
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  #87  
Old 05-27-2016, 01:35 PM
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When you're worse at being X-Man then Cable is, you e done something terribly wrong.
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  #88  
Old 05-27-2016, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
When you're worse at being X-Man then Cable is, you e done something terribly wrong.
Indeed.

Cable when he's on his own and not crossing over with the X-Men is totally a cool and awesome character.

But then when they bring him back into the fold shit gets fucked up.

But X-Man...

God, I tihnk the only time he was remotely decent was his solo series where he fucking dies.
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  #89  
Old 05-27-2016, 01:39 PM
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Most of the 90s for the X-Men can be categorized as "you've done something terribly wrong."
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  #90  
Old 05-27-2016, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sven View Post
Most of the 90s for the X-Men can be categorized as "you've done something terribly wrong."
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