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  #6121  
Old 08-02-2018, 09:13 AM
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So apparently Richard Garfield's newest thing is MTG (not literally; no resource system, for one thing) but with blind boxes of fixed unique decks? How the heck is that going to work?
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  #6122  
Old 08-02-2018, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
If you pick up an Archon Deck, you know that you're the only person in existence with access to this exact deck and its distinct combination of cards. In fact, in just the first set of KeyForge, Call of the Archons, there are more than 104,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible decks!
Sounds like they're just extremely large packs of cards, guaranteed to be nominally unique and nominally playable as a deck, for marketing reasons?
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  #6123  
Old 08-02-2018, 10:43 AM
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The Warlord CCG tried something like that near the end of its first lifecycle where they sold "battle packs" with random half-sized decks. It combined the predatory microtransactions of booster packs with the guarantee of getting a legal and at least somewhat viable deck that you could use to play right out of the foil.

No idea if that's what they're doing here though.


Edit: nevermind, got ninja'd with more details that don't sound at all like what Warlord did.
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  #6124  
Old 08-02-2018, 11:45 AM
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Personally I think your speculation is just as good as mine (and not all that different, really).
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  #6125  
Old 08-02-2018, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
Sounds like they're just extremely large packs of cards, guaranteed to be nominally unique and nominally playable as a deck, for marketing reasons?
I don't know if "nominally" is the right word here - from the sense I get from that press release, there aren't any deckbuilding rules for the game. You buy a deck and play it as is, without any rules for how to mix-and-match cards.

What you and Lucas mentioned sounds more akin to FFG's Living Card Game model, which, given the different branding, does not seem like what this is going for.

Seems kind of interesting. I personally like the deckbuilding aspect of card games, but it can definitely get tiresome sometimes and I know it's a big impediment for a lot of players.
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  #6126  
Old 08-02-2018, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Karzac View Post
I don't know if "nominally" is the right word here
It's nominally playable in that some portion of decks out of 104,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 randomized possible unique sets will be terrible, unless it's miraculously the best balanced game of all time.

They're nominally unique in that a number of the variations among that 104,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 will be so insignificant as to not matter.

(The game itself could be fantastic or terrible, but basically they're just selling big packs that exploit the collect-them-all nerd impulse with the guarantee that each pack will be technically unique.)
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  #6127  
Old 08-02-2018, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by estragon View Post
It's nominally playable in that some portion of decks out of 104,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 randomized possible unique sets will be terrible, unless it's miraculously the best balanced game of all time.

They're nominally unique in that a number of the variations among that 104,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 will be so insignificant as to not matter.

(The game itself could be fantastic or terrible, but basically they're just selling big packs that exploit the collect-them-all nerd impulse with the guarantee that each pack will be technically unique.)
Ah okay, I thought you were using "nominal" in the sense that, in a deckbuilding game, nobody uses the pre-built decks and thus they are only "nominally playable".

You're probably right on both your points, although I would say that the two issues - deck quality and uniqueness - are somewhat interlinked. That is, the more variation there is between the decks, the more likely it will be that some will be great and some will be awful. But if there's only a small amount of variation between the decks, there's a decent chance that they could all land within a fairly narrow band of competitive viability.

For my taste, I'd prefer if the game went in the "high variation, some decks are terrible, some are awesome" direction, because even terrible decks can be really fun to play if the game is good - some of my favourite Netrunner decks were comptetively mediocre at best, but extremely fun and exciting. Whereas, in the world of competitive card games, "balanced" often means "bland".
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  #6128  
Old 08-02-2018, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karzac View Post
Whereas, in the world of competitive card games, "balanced" often means "bland".
Yes, I think you're exactly right about the tradeoff here.

Presumably no one will know where this leans in its approach to unique decks until its released.
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  #6129  
Old 08-02-2018, 10:09 PM
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Except it was released to GenCon goers, so here's all the rules in all their glory.

Basically, for decks that are known to be stronger, they get a (variable) handicap. And yeah, it's a blind pull for every deck.
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  #6130  
Old 08-03-2018, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karzac View Post
What you and Lucas mentioned sounds more akin to FFG's Living Card Game model, which, given the different branding, does not seem like what this is going for.
Yeah, the Warlord battle packs were preconstructed (mostly - I think it was something like twenty selected cards and five random), you were just buying them blind and had no idea if you were getting the set you wanted.

When it was resurrected they went full LCG and only sold clearly defined and set preconstructed decks which didn't give you the high of chasing rares but I thought was otherwise superior. This is entirely off topic, I just really miss playing Warlord.
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  #6131  
Old 09-02-2018, 02:10 AM
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The Star Wars Destiny 2-player game is $4.99 on Amazon as an add-on right now (they were $6.99 last week; should've waited to order mine!). Get two and you've got a solid introduction to the game with enough cards and dice to run elite versions of the characters and two of every card for some deck customization.
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  #6132  
Old 09-02-2018, 06:50 AM
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Don't tell me that! I'm curious about the game but the last thing I need is another CCG sitting around that I impulse bought but will never play.
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  #6133  
Old 09-02-2018, 08:47 AM
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My wife’s a big Disney fan, and just got us Disney Villainous. It’s an asynchronous puzzle/card game where everyone builds their card engines to complete their own objectives, but can also choose to play hindering cards against your opponents. There’s a fair bit of strategy, but you do need to internalize not just your objectives but exactly what everyone else is going for. It’s not typical licensed crap like the Jim Hensen movie games, but an interesting concept that just happens to use Disney characters (and the more interesting Villains instead of the boring heroes).
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  #6134  
Old 09-03-2018, 09:56 AM
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So two kickstarters going on I'm gonna be all in on. The power rangers board game which I got to try out. And upcoming soon is Battlecon:Unleaahed, though I might switch over to exceed? Unleashed is gonna be bringing tuck boxes for every current character. Anyone got opinions on exceed though?
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  #6135  
Old 09-03-2018, 10:09 AM
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Having collected almost everything for both BattleCon and Exceed in the past, BattleCon is the one I paid $50 to get rid of.* I find Exceed to be a lot friendlier and faster to play, less encouraging to analysis paralysis, and no tokens to deal with.

I wish it would get some well-designed tuckboxes for every character though. They did start making tuckboxes for the season 2 characters, but they're still full-sized boxes for half-sized decks so

*Slight hyperbole, but technically true.
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  #6136  
Old 09-03-2018, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
Having collected almost everything for both BattleCon and Exceed in the past, BattleCon is the one I paid $50 to get rid of.* I find Exceed to be a lot friendlier and faster to play, less encouraging to analysis paralysis, and no tokens to deal with.

I wish it would get some well-designed tuckboxes for every character though. They did start making tuckboxes for the season 2 characters, but they're still full-sized boxes for half-sized decks so

*Slight hyperbole, but technically true.
That's alot of issues I'm having with teaching it right now. It's got a very particular mindset that's not friendly. I'll definitely pick up Exceed then. I want that shovel Knight deck.
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  #6137  
Old 09-03-2018, 05:54 PM
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I really feel like the two games take a very different approach to the same end. Exceed can have more shit going on at any one moment, but ultimately prioritizes hand management and making the best of your situation, which avoids the biggest pitfalls of BattleCon - misleading you into believing that you can “solve” any given game state.

Brad has indicated that the next season of Exceed won’t be Kickstarter-based - apparently it’s some licensed property that doesn’t want the risk of a failed Kickstarter?
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  #6138  
Old 09-03-2018, 05:55 PM
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I'd still suggest getting just one set of characters to try the game out with first without jumping into Exceed feet first. I definitely prefer it to BattleCon but it's still pretty similar and can potentially suffer from a lot of the same issues if BC isn't clicking with your friends.
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  #6139  
Old 09-03-2018, 10:46 PM
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BattleCON also just released an online version on steam, but so far the server hasn't wanted to let me play the new and improved Marmelee.
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  #6140  
Old 09-04-2018, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
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BattleCON also just released an online version on steam
Wait, this actually happened?!
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  #6141  
Old 09-04-2018, 12:00 PM
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Yeah.

A lot of the cast on that version have gotten some pretty heavy reworks. Most notably to me: Marmelee got crazy buffed. I already thought she was better than people gave her credit for, but now if you already know how to play hyper-defensive she's the Stall Queen.

(scholar's note: Magdelina is and remains the OG Stall Queen. I haven't tried to Marmelee vs. Magdelina yet)
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  #6142  
Old 09-04-2018, 12:04 PM
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I'm guessing one can probably treat most of these changes as previews of the revised versions that will be in Unleashed.
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  #6143  
Old 09-04-2018, 02:03 PM
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At a glance (having just done a quick practice match) BattleCon UI and Presentation are a lot flashier than I expected. As in holy fuck this thing was never going to make it's original date.

I assumed they were going with something simple and functional.
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  #6144  
Old 09-04-2018, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destil View Post
I assumed they were going with something simple and functional.
Yes, that is usually the case with Level99 and Talton.
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  #6145  
Old 09-09-2018, 10:30 PM
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Got in a session of base-game Rebellion last night. It'd been a while, and I remembered the combat being kinda lame, but actually it was fine? Overall I really like the tension of trying to hunt down the rebels while they try to hamper you and wait you out. I lost because my fleets were too spread out and far from the rebels to get there once I finally found it (it was right next to one of my starting spots so I overlooked it, thinking it wouldn't be so close).

Best play of the game was when I had a captured Luke and had TWO missions that were going to reveal info about the the rebel base to me and my wife swooped in and rescued him before I could pull off either.

Also it's surprisingly hard to get a good picture in your head of which probe cards you DON'T have, at least for me. I had the hardest time visualizing where the base might be among the planets I didn't have cards for.
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  #6146  
Old 09-10-2018, 05:08 AM
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To keep track of which probe cards you don't have, my technique was always to group all the cards in one region together. That way, I could quickly scan each region of the board and make a mental list of planets whose card I didn't have and that didn't have my troops on them.
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  #6147  
Old 09-10-2018, 07:55 AM
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I started doing that toward the end, but too late to make a difference.

I was also thinking for a while that she was on Endor and neglected the left side of the map as a result.
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  #6148  
Old 09-10-2018, 09:07 AM
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Yeah, it's important as the Imperial player to take a step back every once in a while and actually methodically go through the possibilities for where the base might be. Otherwise, it's really easy to get tunnel-visioned on one spot where it's "obvious" the base is hiding.
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  #6149  
Old 09-10-2018, 10:28 AM
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Waiting for my copy of Root, playing Near and Far in the meantime.

Current campaign: I unsealed an ancient immortal warlord and now I'm tracking him down to vanquish him my own damn self.

It's somewhere between Steamworld: Heist and Castlevania: Simon's Quest.
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  #6150  
Old 09-10-2018, 11:25 AM
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I played Root a couple times. It was mechanically more fun than Vast, but narratively it's a lot less climactic since it doesn't have a real turning point. The players just earn some VPs every turn until someone gets to 30.

Do not help the Vagabond.
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