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  #31  
Old 01-19-2017, 01:34 PM
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Tried Shrine of Storms, which told me in no uncertain terms I was not ready. It would make a great soul farming spot if it weren't for the embarassing load times this game has.
As soon as you find a blunt weapon to kill the skeletons with, Shrine of Storms becomes the only place where it's worth grinding souls. Like, the amount you get is absurdly higher than in any other area available to you at that point. While I could be missing something, at the time it seemed like the balance was pretty off because you'd be crazy to not spend an hour there gaining levels.
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  #32  
Old 01-19-2017, 09:33 PM
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I like the Tower of Latria much better. Unfortunately all the stuff I'm getting is for a magic build.
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  #33  
Old 01-19-2017, 10:45 PM
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the drops are something like this:

World 1 - healing items
World 2 - strength
World 3 - magic
World 4 - dex
World 5 - faith

It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure that lines up.
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  #34  
Old 01-19-2017, 10:54 PM
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What names do the numbers correlate to?
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  #35  
Old 01-19-2017, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Issun View Post
Tried Shrine of Storms, which told me in no uncertain terms I was not ready.
If you can find a way to handle (or avoid) the enemies just a little bit, you can pretty easily get one of the best early game weapons, very close to the entrance of the area.

For my completely unoptimized build (thief-->mage), this ended up being good enough to use for the entire game.
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  #36  
Old 01-19-2017, 10:57 PM
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World 1 - Boletaria
World 2 - Stonefang Tunnels
World 3 - Tower of Latria
World 4 - Shrine of Storms
World 5 - Valley of Defilement
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  #37  
Old 01-19-2017, 10:59 PM
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Mucked about in Stonefang Tunnels. Killed the fire jester dude a couple of times (fuck him). Overall Boletaria feels less like a place like Lordran, and more like a bunch of video game levels.
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It's not the same kind of unified world, but each of the five levels ends up being well established as a place on its own.
I think you're both right? Each set of levels has a unique feel to it but also...yeah, it's the most game-y of all the games by far.

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What names do the numbers correlate to?
Boletaria Castle or whatever is world one, Stonefang Tunnels are two, Tower of Latria is three, Shrine of Storms is four, Shitass Fuck This God Damn it of Defilement is five. It's counterclockwise starting at the castle.

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Originally Posted by estragon View Post
If you can find a way to handle (or avoid) the enemies just a little bit, you can pretty easily get one of the best early game weapons, very close to the entrance of the area.

For my completely unoptimized build (thief-->mage), this ended up being good enough to use for the entire game.
I used a +4 version of that weapon and beat the game with it with my totally unoptimized dex/int build. It's very good and you can make a suicide run for it. Also, once you figure out those skeletons, you'll laugh at how much trouble you were having.
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  #38  
Old 01-20-2017, 12:02 AM
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Also, once you figure out those skeletons, you'll laugh at how much trouble you were having.
I can beat them if I can parry them. It's harder though because their attacks have such a long wind-up, which wrecks my timing something fierce. It's the same reason I have more trouble parrying the Hollow Warriors in Undead Burg than I do many late-game enemies.
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  #39  
Old 01-20-2017, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MCBanjoMike View Post
As soon as you find a blunt weapon to kill the skeletons with, Shrine of Storms becomes the only place where it's worth grinding souls. Like, the amount you get is absurdly higher than in any other area available to you at that point. While I could be missing something, at the time it seemed like the balance was pretty off because you'd be crazy to not spend an hour there gaining levels.
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  #40  
Old 01-20-2017, 07:08 AM
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Fun fact: you can stun lock those skeletons with your bare fists using the R2 attack. They became a lot less scary once I learned they're not these unstoppable murder bots.
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  #41  
Old 01-20-2017, 07:47 AM
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Those skeletons were where I absolutely bought into the Souls formula. An intimidating, seemingly insurmountable challenge became trivial, where the only significant change was my own experience and skill. It sent endorphins straight to the Roguelike-loving part of my brain.
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  #42  
Old 01-20-2017, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issun View Post
Overall Boletaria feels less like a place like Lordran, and more like a bunch of video game levels.
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Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
It's not the same kind of unified world, but each of the five levels ends up being well established as a place on its own.
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Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
I think you're both right? Each set of levels has a unique feel to it but also...yeah, it's the most game-y of all the games by far.
If you'll allow me to wax poetic for a second: this is exactly why I love Demon's Souls' level design. I think it manages to be both extremely game-y while also being well-considered worldbuilding.

The gameiness is obvious: the game presents a hub leading to five separate areas. They can be played in any order, but a really smart player will poke around in all of them for useful items and equipment. Each of the five are distinct, in theme, in challenges and in item drops. I find this a very satisfying set-up, because each archstone has a clearly communicated distinction and purpose. It's very crunchy, mechanically.

From a worldbuilding perspective, the simple fact that each area gets three levels means that it receives a greater amount of time to thoroughly explore its theme; each has a greater sense of place and weight than is typical in its successors. But additionally, I think the narrow focus on only five areas in the land of Boletaria makes the setting feel that much more mysterious. We know there's other parts to Boletaria outside our journeys-- the sixth archstone is an obvious location, but there's also the prologue section, and lots of dialogue from NPCs that give hints about the outside world.

So, take Boletaria Castle. A castle level is certainly nothing unique in the franchise, but I don't feel that any of the succeeding games have approached the quality here. Boletaria is simply massive-- you spend a level fighting around the outer walls just to open the gate, a level crossing the bridge into the inner castle, and then another two to get to the castle keep. Besides being clear iterative design, it reinforces the grand scale of the place and how monumental an undertaking it is to reach the keep. Meanwhile, Boletaria stands out among the other levels because its challenge focuses on humanoid enemies and duels (and occasional dragon setpiece), and it serves as the farming location for grass-- both of which also make perfect sense with the setting.

Every piece of a given area is constantly informing and reinforcing other design aspects, and it results in an impeccably cohesive world. Each and every piece makes sense on a micro and macro level, on a gameplay and story level. The land of Boletaria is a tightly, deeply considered feedback loop of design that even From's later opuses don't quite manage.

Last edited by conchobhar; 01-20-2017 at 02:58 PM. Reason: clarity
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  #43  
Old 01-20-2017, 10:39 PM
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Punched a few skellymans, got the Kilij. It and my spear are both at level 2 or 3. Went back to the palace to get a few more healing items and got a Knight Shield. I bumped the spear up too because it seems Stonefang is all about thrusting weapons.

Bow howdy is progress in this game so much slower than in Dark Souls, at least at first.

Also more progress would have been made in the Tunnels if it weren't for those fucking dogs. What is it with video game dogs being the absolute worst?
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  #44  
Old 01-21-2017, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conchobhar View Post
If you'll allow me to wax poetic for a second: this is exactly why I love Demon's Souls' level design. I think it manages to be both extremely game-y while also being well-considered worldbuilding.

The gameiness is obvious: the game presents a hub leading to five separate areas. They can be played in any order, but a really smart player will poke around in all of them for useful items and equipment. Each of the five are distinct, in theme, in challenges and in item drops. I find this a very satisfying set-up, because each archstone has a clearly communicated distinction and purpose. It's very crunchy, mechanically.

From a worldbuilding perspective, the simple fact that each area gets three levels means that it receives a greater amount of time to thoroughly explore its theme; each has a greater sense of place and weight than is typical in its successors. But additionally, I think the narrow focus on only five areas in the land of Boletaria makes the setting feel that much more mysterious. We know there's other parts to Boletaria outside our journeys-- the sixth archstone is an obvious location, but there's also the prologue section, and lots of dialogue from NPCs that give hints about the outside world.

So, take Boletaria Castle. A castle level is certainly nothing unique in the franchise, but I don't feel that any of the succeeding games have approached the quality here. Boletaria is simply massive-- you spend a level fighting around the outer walls just to open the gate, a level crossing the bridge into the inner castle, and then another two to get to the castle keep. Besides being clear iterative design, it reinforces the grand scale of the place and how monumental an undertaking it is to reach the keep. Meanwhile, Boletaria stands out among the other levels because its challenge focuses on humanoid enemies and duels (and occasional dragon setpiece), and it serves as the farming location for grass-- both of which also make perfect sense with the setting.

Every piece of a given area is constantly informing and reinforcing other design aspects, and it results in an impeccably cohesive world. Each and every piece makes sense on a micro and macro level, on a gameplay and story level. The land of Boletaria is a tightly, deeply considered feedback loop of design that even From's later opuses don't quite manage.
Okay sure but...like, Dark Souls, though? *shrug*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Issun View Post
Punched a few skellymans, got the Kilij. It and my spear are both at level 2 or 3. Went back to the palace to get a few more healing items and got a Knight Shield. I bumped the spear up too because it seems Stonefang is all about thrusting weapons.

Bow howdy is progress in this game so much slower than in Dark Souls, at least at first.

Also more progress would have been made in the Tunnels if it weren't for those fucking dogs. What is it with video game dogs being the absolute worst?
The Kilij is what I beat the game with. It's pretty dang stronk. Demon's is definitely a lot of a slower grind.
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  #45  
Old 01-21-2017, 11:48 AM
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Okay sure but...like, Dark Souls, though? *shrug*
Yeah, I don't like Lodran as much. shrug?
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  #46  
Old 01-21-2017, 12:55 PM
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I find Demon's Souls to be quite breezy compared to Dark. Different strokes for different folks I guess!
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  #47  
Old 01-21-2017, 08:53 PM
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Beat Armor Spider. You guys weren't kidding about hard levels and easy bosses.
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  #48  
Old 01-21-2017, 10:01 PM
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Now trying Boletarian Palace Pt 2. That fucking dragon.
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  #49  
Old 01-21-2017, 10:10 PM
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Beat Armor Spider. You guys weren't kidding about hard levels and easy bosses.
Yeah, armor spider is probably the easiest boss in the series, not to mention the game.
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  #50  
Old 01-21-2017, 11:13 PM
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I dunno man, that goop boy in Proto Blighttown is stupid easy...

And the second Shrine of Storms boss is also stupid easy.

And...I mean, it might be faster to list the challenging/non-gimmick bosses, actually.
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  #51  
Old 01-21-2017, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
I dunno man, that goop boy in Proto Blighttown is stupid easy...

And the second Shrine of Storms boss is also stupid easy.

And...I mean, it might be faster to list the challenging/non-gimmick bosses, actually.
Three, IMO: Flamelurker, Maneaters, False King.

Old Monk can be bad too, depending on your luck.
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  #52  
Old 01-22-2017, 03:34 AM
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Old Hero can be tough if you don't do his gimmick.
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  #53  
Old 01-22-2017, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
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  #54  
Old 01-23-2017, 09:53 AM
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Penetrator?
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  #55  
Old 01-23-2017, 10:04 AM
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Penetrator?
There's a huge gimmick to this fight if you save Biorr from the jail cell. He'll show up in the fight and draw the Penetrator's attention. Trivializes the fight. It's basically the precursor to summoning NPC help in the later games.

The Penetrator fight is tough without this though, IIRC. I've only ever done it once like that and I was a total Souls noob then.
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  #56  
Old 01-23-2017, 07:20 PM
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I think it's time to call it quits. I'm just not enjoying this game at all like I did Dark Souls. It just feels drab and boring.

Maybe I'll come back to it after I've played through all the other Soulsborne games, but for now it's going to sit there, uncompleted.
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  #57  
Old 01-23-2017, 07:52 PM
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It's okay. No one will judge you for not playing Demon's Souls. That's how you can tell it isn't a real Souls game.


(Demon's Souls is sometimes my favorite Soulsborne, depending on the current World Tendency.)
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  #58  
Old 01-23-2017, 08:06 PM
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I started with Demon's first, and thought I was going to be so good at it, aware of traps and fights (which I loved, I've done various fencing before and the combat reminded me of that very much), and just have a great time.

I didn't.

This was the only game in recent memory where I actually felt like embedding my controller into the dry wall. It was unresponsive, things were bollocks, I timed that parry just right didn't I? Oh bugger everything. I'd play for about an hour before getting fed up and walk away, to cool off and maybe try again in a bit. This was my first 10 hours of the game. I couldn't beat that blue eyes black knight at the end of 1-2 for whatever reason, and then I wound up dying to the boss after him as well. Well, turns out I was doing it wrong, I should've taken my spoils and use it to get better gear, level up, or anything, instead of just losing my blood stain. I was stuck in the "do it again, stupid" trap of game design, where the thing I wanted to practice (blue eyes black knight) was at the end of a 30min obstacle course, there was no feedback to learn.

And yet, I don't know what happened, after that 10 hour mark everything started to click. I think I was finally able to beat 1-2 and proceeded to explore other areas. I eventually did as much as I could, everything I could. I played the game offline though, so I was able to sort of manage my World Tendency that way, after learning how it worked. As above in the thread, I think that a Demon's has a few too many mechanics that are obfuscated and hard to decipher, but oh, once I got around that, and learned to explore other areas if I got lost or stuck, that the game felt so good to me.

Except I'm the boring person who likes worlds 1, 2, and 4. 3 and 5 are too gross and nightmare fuel for me, although they do have some great moments and I can appreciate why others like those areas. I'd like to go back and give Demon's another try after beating Dark Souls 1 and 2 at some point, and see if it does seem to be easier as others say.

This is all a long way of saying that I disliked the game at first so much but that I'm glad I stuck with it.
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  #59  
Old 01-24-2017, 06:12 PM
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After giving it more thought I really do think it was mainly the loadtimes that killed the experience for me. In a game where dying is a major feature, having to wait more than a few seconds to get back into it gets cumulatively frustrating.
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  #60  
Old 01-24-2017, 11:23 PM
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It's okay. No one will judge you for not playing Demon's Souls.
I will!
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