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  #961  
Old 08-29-2016, 12:47 AM
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I fired up Mario Maker and got thinking about making levels again. And playing through my old levels, one of the things that stood out was that the changing tilesets make it hard to feel like my stages belong to a continuous game world. So if I was going to make another game's worth of levels using a single set, which would I use?

SMB: Iconic but a bit limited. I like the underground and castle sets a lot, but not so much the others. You don't get as many neat aesthetic details like ground blocks that merge into larger shapes. Mystery mushroom is a big plus, and kuribo's shoe is a nice addition, but you don't get a tail/cape or Yoshi.

SMB3: The most fun to look at, I think, but some of the tiles are uninspiring, unless you like those big boxes. Love the ghost house, though. Raccoon tail, Kuribo's shoe, both good. Different Bowser that you can do some neat things with.

SMW: Maybe the most appealing overall, across all environments. Yoshi is by far the most interesting power-up, since he can interact with various enemies and projectiles. Water levels greatly benefit from cape, flower and Yoshi all being interesting options there.

NSMB: On the surface, the least appealing. Just generic-looking overall, and the music is easily the worst. But it has propeller cap, which is a pretty interesting option. And you get Yoshi with his flutter jump. And when you get to actually designing around the tiles, you find that there's a lot you can do with them.

So logically, I start thinking NSMB is the way to go. Except that it's the worst and I kind of hate it. Hmm.
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  #962  
Old 08-29-2016, 01:50 AM
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I don't get the music hate on NSMB. The overworld theme, maybe, but the rest all sound great to me.
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  #963  
Old 08-29-2016, 04:43 AM
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Another thing about the NSMB style is that it also features wall jumping and butt stomping and that triple jump I guess, which add to the things that can be done mechanically. So there's more that can and should be taken into consideration with tile placement than the classic 2D styles.
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  #964  
Old 09-02-2016, 02:35 PM
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I decided on SMB1, partly for iconic graphics but mainly because the mystery mushroom is better at serving a particular purpose for me: Rewarding the player for finding some pointlessly cool structure I built just for the hell of it.

I struggle with Mario Maker's options for rewards and empowerments. Fight your way to the darkest corner of the level, and for what? A normal Mario game would use 1-ups but here they have zero value. Coins are more useful just because they're collectible, which inspires you to grab them even though they're just as much an empty reward as 1-ups. Flowers, stars, feathers and such all have interesting design considerations but if the level is built around them you have to provide them up front, not as a secret. (I do think Yoshi is extremely interesting for his ability to interact with enemies and projectiles in new ways, and I'm sure at some point I'll return to that.)

All that is why Mystery Mushrooms are my new thing. They're fun even if you've already gotten one, and they have some function, unlike 1-ups. I wish you could make a Mystery Flower or Mystery Star, but oh well. Ultimately I'm much more interested in making interesting spaces and I can do that without powerups.

When I was making "world 1" type levels to round out my first set, my first "game" if you will, I found it gratifying to make highly compact stages that don't require great skill and don't demand the use of a powerup. That's the vein I've been continuing to mine, along with my Rules of Two: Pick two environments that contrast in interesting ways, and pick two main kinds of enemies to populate those environments with. (It's also good to have a WTF moment, like a ghost wearing a cannon on its head that shoots fish, but probably only one per level, just to keep 'em guessing)
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  #965  
Old 09-02-2016, 02:55 PM
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1-ups are how you tune difficulty in the 100-Mario Challenge. More on this in a few hours.
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  #966  
Old 09-03-2016, 12:53 AM
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A player can gain at most three lives during a single stage in the 100-Mario Challenge. This introduces a mathematical way of looking at the difficulty of your stage.

The player's goal is to clear 16 stages with 100 lives. In other words, they can lose at most six lives per stage on average. Another way of putting that is that they must win on or before their seventh attempt.

You can push the difficulty level beyond this into nine deaths, however, because the player can gain up to three 1ups from your level.

You can expect that the player will reach farther into the level on subsequent attempts. We'll start with a case of no save points. The average distance the player crosses in the level will turn out to be about half the length of it, in that case - and on average, they'll gain half the number of coins in the level.

There are four ways to target a net loss of six lives (seven attempts). They can die nine times and gain three lives, die eight times and gain two lives, die seven times and gain one life, and die six times without gaining any lives.

Express each of these as a ratio of 1ups to deaths: 1/3, 1/4, 1/7, and 0. Multiply this ratio by 200 and you have the number of coins you should cause the player to collect in your stage. Call it 70, 50, 30, and 0 coins. Note that this is not the same as the number of coins to put in the level, as the player's not going to collect every coin.

If you want an easier level - say, targeting three net deaths - there are, once again, four ways to achieve it. The ratios of 1ups to deaths are 3:6, 2:5, 1:4, and 0:3. Or, 100, 80, 50, and 0 coins.

That's with coins, but what about 1up mushrooms? A 1up mushroom is worth 100 coins. The farther into your level the mushroom is, the lower the probability that the player will collect it. So, putting it halfway through the stage makes it about equivalent to 50 coins. Putting it 90% of the way through makes it more like 10 coins. Note that this refers to progress through the deadly obstacles, not absolute distance. And as with the observation that players won't collect every coin, you also need to multiply it by the probability that the player will succeed in collecting it. A mushroom that the player can't miss is equivalent to putting in 100 coins, but if they'll blow it half the time it only counts 50 towards your coin budget.

6 isn't quite the right target number, though, because players will also be skipping levels that are total shit, and they may have to die a few times to discover that it is shit. Stages that often give players a net gain of life are going to fall out of your difficulty bracket, too, maybe. Shoot for around a target number of three, I think. That means you can vary the deadliness of your obstacles between 3 and 6 expected deaths - a 100% range! - but still make it fit by adjusting the rewards.
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  #967  
Old 09-03-2016, 08:16 PM
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I don't care about any of those garbage levels. If they kill me, I skip 'em. If it wasn't the only way to unlock costumes, I wouldn't play 100-Mario at all.
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  #968  
Old 09-23-2016, 10:07 PM
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Kinda wish there was another response besides giving a level a star, something to the effect of "well, that was pointless."
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  #969  
Old 09-23-2016, 10:09 PM
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You can leave a comment on it. These days I think you don't even have to star the level.
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  #970  
Old 09-24-2016, 07:16 AM
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Yup, comments no longer automatically star a level.
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  #971  
Old 11-17-2016, 01:38 PM
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new 3DS trailer.



One thing it confirms that I don't think we had before is online course world. Though it seems you still can't enter specific course codes, which is a bummer.

Still, I'm putting this on my wish list for the 100 Nintendo staff made courses alone. That's basically a new 2D mario game, which is worth the price alone to me. And I'll be curious to see what kind of levels I can pick up just from street passes.
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  #972  
Old 11-17-2016, 02:04 PM
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The 2D versions look fine, but the NSMB skin has some painful framerate issues in that trailer.
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  #973  
Old 11-18-2016, 09:28 AM
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Hmm, yes, this is going on the ol' wishlist.
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  #974  
Old 12-02-2016, 07:55 PM
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Got this today. When it boots up, it says that my levels are saved to the SD card, but the cartridge data must be erased if I put the cartridge in another 3DS.

Is this saying I have to erase my unlocks/Mario course progress to let my kids play in their systems?
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  #975  
Old 12-02-2016, 09:29 PM
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I would like to get the 3DS version, but without the ability to transfer levels to the WiiU its utility is limited. If they ever announce that feature, I'm getting a copy. Mostly for my fiancee.
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  #976  
Old 12-03-2016, 02:43 AM
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I'm just happy to have another client for Infinite Mario.

Anyone know how big the download is? Can't check without having enough credit to actually buy it.
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  #977  
Old 12-03-2016, 06:23 AM
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2,910 blocks. Or about 360MB in real-world measurings.

Then 156 blocks for the current update; and another roughly 500 for the extra data on the SD for level storage I guess.
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  #978  
Old 12-03-2016, 07:56 AM
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Ooh, that's only baby-times sized, especially for a game like this. Good deal!
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  #979  
Old 12-04-2016, 01:01 AM
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I'll buy the 3DS version when they add the ability to play levels you've bookmarked, and no sooner.
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  #980  
Old 12-05-2016, 05:01 PM
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Yeah, I'm in no rush. Oddly enough, the part I want most -- the 100 new Nintendo-made levels -- appeals to me and would be the driving force behind a purchase, yet the way it's been gutted, I can't seem to bring myself to pay full price for it.
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  #981  
Old 12-05-2016, 07:33 PM
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I'm willing to buy it just for the 2D mario experience. The Maker levels are almost a bonus.
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  #982  
Old 12-06-2016, 01:23 AM
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I did in fact buy 3DS Mario Maker and have been plugging away at the Super Mario Challenge.

The levels are a mixed bag for sure, largely aimed at applying a mechanic to theme stages in a way Mario normally doesn't - like, there's a whole world of Clown Car Copter stages, which is very unlike the series.

They're Mario Maker levels, so while the gameplay polish is there the visual polish isn't so much.

The Challenges add a lot to the game, they're incredibly varied and balls hard. Seriously, all of them are hard. There's a Hard challenge, and a REALLY HARD challenge per stage. Stuff like, say, on one of the aforementioned Clown Car stages

Challenge 1: Don't touch any Clown Cars

Challenge 2: Don't touch any Clown Cars and finish with 280 seconds still on the clock

That sort of thing. Except more fun than I just made that sound, because they're very tailored to the stages.
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  #983  
Old 12-17-2016, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
The Challenges add a lot to the game, they're incredibly varied and balls hard. Seriously, all of them are hard. There's a Hard challenge, and a REALLY HARD challenge per stage.
I don't find the Super Mario Challenge levels "hard" as such, the difficulty is just about right. Not New SMB U easy but also not mind-numbingly aggravating like a lot of the user-generated Mario Maker levels out there. Then the medals are basically "Challenge" and "Extra Challenge". Sometimes the second challenge isn't even harder than the first.

What I don't get is what do you get for getting the medals? 40 medals opens the extra levels, but beyond that they seem to have no other purpose other than tell you "Hey do this thing" and you'll receive a shiny digital stamp for it. For the cheevos/Trophy hunters I suppose?
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  #984  
Old 12-17-2016, 04:07 PM
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If I was going to get a 3DS Mario game, would I be better served by this or by NSMB 2?
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  #985  
Old 12-17-2016, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LancerECNM View Post
If I was going to get a 3DS Mario game, would I be better served by this or by NSMB 2?
Depends on how much you like the concept of a score attack.
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  #986  
Old 12-17-2016, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
Depends on how much you like the concept of a score attack.
And that depends on the game.
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  #987  
Old 12-17-2016, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sami View Post
What I don't get is what do you get for getting the medals? 40 medals opens the extra levels, but beyond that they seem to have no other purpose other than tell you "Hey do this thing" and you'll receive a shiny digital stamp for it. For the cheevos/Trophy hunters I suppose?
Never underestimate the power of achievements.

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  #988  
Old 12-18-2016, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LancerECNM View Post
If I was going to get a 3DS Mario game, would I be better served by this or by NSMB 2?
Why not both?

Honestly, that's a tough one. NSMB2 feels meatier than Super Mario Challenge in SMM, but SMC has more interesting level designs, and the variety of SMB1 + 3 + World + New styles. However, it's annoying to have to use the touch screen each and every time between stages in SMM. If you get a good deal for NSMB2, it's a good pick, but if they're the same price, I'd go for SMM at this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daikaiju View Post
Never underestimate the power of achievements.
Yeah, I know some people care about them, but they just seem out of place in a Mario game. And while some are incorporated well into the stage they're in, some seem just random, and are pretty much interchangeable with other stages.
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  #989  
Old 08-12-2017, 09:03 PM
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I don't know if Nintendo's filtering has improved or if it's just that the remaining audience now consists mostly of people who care, but I just played through normal mode and most of the levels were pretty good, with a few that were even actually good. There was even an automatic level that was clever enough that I liked it. Of course then my unlocked character was Diddy Kong and I still felt like I'd wasted my time, so...
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