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  #421  
Old 07-18-2017, 03:01 PM
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Emotions are prohibited, Octo.
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  #422  
Old 07-18-2017, 03:04 PM
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Drakengard Yoko Taro! friggin millenials amirite
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  #423  
Old 07-23-2017, 08:59 AM
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I beat this, finally! I got ending C.

I was burning out hard on route B, and had to take a break for a while. Route C, where everyone turns into a Drakengard character, was pretty awesome and compelling all the way through. I'm glad I stuck with it.

Still kinda fuzzy on who was actually running the show at YorHa. Was the backdoor to kill everyone in the bunker put in place by N2, as part of their plan to create perpetual machine and android warfare? Or was it put in place by androids higher up the food chain than the commander, as part of their plan to keep rolling out newer and better androids while disposing of the old ones?

I guess it ultimately doesn't matter that much, since everything the androids and machines had been doing ceased to matter a long time ago. If the androids DID win, someone might start asking pesky questions like "uh, so WHY aren't the humans coming back yet"?. The machines and androids were both playing into the ceaseless conflict narrative, having nothing else better to do until the machine AI just said "fuck it, we're leaving earth."

Last edited by Doctor Nerd; 07-23-2017 at 09:09 AM.
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  #424  
Old 07-23-2017, 09:13 AM
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I beat this, finally! I got ending C.

I was burning out hard on route B, and had to take a break for a while. Route C, where everyone turns into a Drakengard character, was pretty awesome and compelling all the way through. I'm glad I stuck with it.

Still kinda fuzzy on who was actually running the show at YorHa. Was the backdoor to kill everyone in the bunker put in place by N2, as part of their plan to create perpetual machine and android warfare? Or was it put in place by androids higher up the food chain than the commander, as part of their plan to keep rolling out newer and better androids while disposing of the old ones?

I guess it ultimately doesn't matter that much, since everything the androids and machines had been doing ceased to matter a long time ago. If the androids DID win, someone might start asking pesky questions like "uh, so WHY aren't the humans coming back yet"?. The machines and androids were both playing into the ceaseless conflict narrative, having nothing else better to do until the machine AI just said "fuck it, we're leaving earth."
You aren't done until you have ending E
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  #425  
Old 07-24-2017, 08:21 AM
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I got ending A in this and started the B playthrough. Seems neat so far, waiting for it to BLOW MY MIND.
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  #426  
Old 07-24-2017, 02:35 PM
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I never had the the big "OH MY GOD!" moment that a lot of people seemed to with Route C. After 2B dies, there isn't much left, and you control A2 for such a short time I wonder why the game even bothered and didn't just switch to 9S permanently. She's just 2B with an extra ability you never really need for the brief bits you play as her.

I've been wondering why Automata has been getting near universal praise where Gestalt/Replicant was panned. For all it's Platinum infused DNA, nothing in Automata ever reached the highs of the first game, Hook attacking the Aerie, the entire desert palace and Facade in general, Emil's journey underneath the mansion and transformation. It's world feels much smaller, as well. I'd like to think it's more than the main characters being "thicc" android ladies this time instead of Ugly Dad and a floating book, but...
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  #427  
Old 07-24-2017, 03:40 PM
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I never had the the big "OH MY GOD!" moment that a lot of people seemed to with Route C. After 2B dies, there isn't much left, and you control A2 for such a short time I wonder why the game even bothered and didn't just switch to 9S permanently. She's just 2B with an extra ability you never really need for the brief bits you play as her.

I've been wondering why Automata has been getting near universal praise where Gestalt/Replicant was panned. For all it's Platinum infused DNA, nothing in Automata ever reached the highs of the first game, Hook attacking the Aerie, the entire desert palace and Facade in general, Emil's journey underneath the mansion and transformation. It's world feels much smaller, as well. I'd like to think it's more than the main characters being "thicc" android ladies this time instead of Ugly Dad and a floating book, but...
I think that's probably a big part of it but i think there's a number of reasons and I'll just spoilery it all even though i may not spoil a thing (im going off cuff)
1. marketing... partially just being thicc android but this game just had hype coming out the pores while nier was just a smaller budget square enix produced game. nier:a is glossly and had pre release hype and had hot new developer working on combat and nier1 had a team mostly known for a game with a reputation for being oppressive towards the player
2. nier itself is pretty oppressive for the player. it makes sense ina
game that wants you to question your motivations for the first half of the game (or the first full time? whatever), but it's going to be a hard sell for cynics. When you have game reviewers that generally focus on the function of the game as a game without worrying about any narrative function they're not going to look past the horse to the cart. nier:a is fun. it wants to be fun and the story really hopes you have fun. it's a much easier sell for people
3. nier:a also gets to benefit from nier having a cult following that for whatever reason seemed to crop up as something more consumable than drakengard's ever did (lot of reasons for that actually). idk how often people do take really quick surface level opinions on game but a more aware base plus having platinum start-with-boss intro probably just gets people more willing to invest than nier being discount zelda for a couple hours
4. its probably still just horny
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  #428  
Old 07-24-2017, 03:55 PM
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I feel both games have their own strengths and weaknesses, but both hinge entirely on provoking Big Emotional Reactions, and Yoko Taro even said a thing about how his whole approach to storytelling is largely reverse-engineering from huge, impacting moments and mostly just designing everything leading up to them with making those eventual moments land as hard as possible. If the big moments from either game don't land for you, then it all kinda flops. For me, Route C and Ending E ABSOLUTELY hit the mark and did their job of enriching and justifying everything that came before, so I ended up loving it.

I will say I feel Nier Classic worked better on the level of character, while Automata worked better on the level of theme.

As for why Automata is so much more widely loved, I think it's simply that so many more people are reaching the Big Moments for this one, while plenty of people bounced off the first one before getting to the good stuff or listened to reviewers who judged it before getting to the good stuff or just never even heard of the game in the first place. To know Nier is to love Nier, and Automata...with prettier characters and better graphics and snappier gameplay...is easier to get to know for most people.
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  #429  
Old 07-24-2017, 04:20 PM
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Look, I loved the original Nier, but that game is clunky in many respects. I don't blame anyone who felt immediately turned off by it, but then found Automata to be a smoother experience.
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  #430  
Old 07-24-2017, 04:40 PM
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To be fair, if Deptford hadn't evangelized the first Nier I would have most likely ignored it. Make no mistake, I very much enjoyed my time with Automata, and don't regret playing it for a second. It just felt more...focus tested, which is an odd thing to say when you consider the first Nier had two separate versions to appeal to the widest possible audience.
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  #431  
Old 07-24-2017, 06:33 PM
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My big MIND BLOWING moments with the game are largely in the realizations of very subtle things (some very much thanks to this thread) that you may never actually pick up on even with full knowledge of the continuity. Just understanding some of what looks like arbitrary symbolism, or the logic virus that infected the bunker, and the machines that looked like they were eating androids and other machines. The story goes to some places that look really weird and seem to have no context if you weren't really up to date on all the stuff that went on between games that might dampen the impact a little, but it's all relevant and my biggest reactions are always from putting the pieces together rather than any big story shock or reveal meant to get something out of me (though many of them do still succeed).

Looking at how it all connects, and then having the full weight of Ending E hit me the way it aimed to. It's... a lot for me. I almost think that even though Automata has such improved general gameplay thanks to Platinum that its story and plot would stand all on their own even if it played identically to the first Nier. I might be a little biased though being one of the rare people that didn't hate Drakengard 1 and did everything in it before The Dark Id's LP gave it a lot of attention it may never have gotten otherwise. I'm super invested in this particular line of sequels but even when my expectations were higher than I maybe should've let them be for Automata I was surprised at how much more it gave me than I wanted (which to be fair, I wasn't super interested in another world structured like Nier 1 if there were going to be multiple playthroughs again).

The "thicc" android design and whatnot is whatever. I have a couple friends that barely understand why I even "tolerate that" (their words) in a game I love so much and it's because they don't look past that at what I consider to be the best storytelling I've ever seen in a videogame. They won't even pretend to consider giving it the time of day regardless of the praises I sing about it so even if that marketing helped with certain elements of the target audience it certainly had the opposite effect on some people I think would love the story if they didn't refuse to give it a chance.
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  #432  
Old 07-24-2017, 06:46 PM
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I'm glad this thread resurfaced without me having to look for it because I'm playing this now too!

This shit is b-a-n-a-n-a-s and I'm only up to the point in Part A where you see the alien corpses and find out the motivations of Adam and Eve. I've already gotten two endings because I'm the best at games too. Speaking of, I'm 1000% sure the game is going to do something weird with the self destruct function or the OS chip being a totally removable thing.
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  #433  
Old 07-24-2017, 10:15 PM
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I never had the the big "OH MY GOD!" moment that a lot of people seemed to with Route C. After 2B dies, there isn't much left, and you control A2 for such a short time I wonder why the game even bothered and didn't just switch to 9S permanently. She's just 2B with an extra ability you never really need for the brief bits you play as her.
A2 is tremendously important to the mythology of Nier:

(Spoilers for Endings C and D)

She's a long-lived veteran of a pointless, endless war who, having grown disillusioned with the endless cycle of destruction, renounces her part in it. However, she still can't find a purpose to her existence, so, even though she doesn't owe allegiance to anyone anymore, she still fights Machines relentlessly. She has nothing else.

And remember --2B herself had not found a way out of the cycle. She knows about it, she suffers for and from it, but she can't tear herself from it the way A2 did. Because if she did, YoRHa would just create another Android to execute 9S over and over and over. She finds escape only in death, and in bequeathing her memories and wishes to A2.

It's only when this happens, after A2 takes 2B's memories into herself, that she begins to open up to possibilities of life not just outside, but beyond the cycle. She finds a measure of comfort in assisting Pascal and caring for his children. She sees that there are Machines who have also removed themselves from the cycle, and have found purpose.

But then Pascal and his village are destroyed by the Machines, just like rogue YoRHas are hunted and executed by Command, proving to her that there's no escaping fate. The only thing left to her is to try to see 2B's wish through and save 9S.

When even THAT proves... complicated, and having found conclusive proof that the war really was just a pointless game with neither victor nor salvation, she finally dies ensuring that at least 9S lives on. Did this, finally, give her life meaning? Or was her life a pointless exercise in suffering and imparting suffering on others? She drove the collective intelligence of the Machines into self-destruction, but did that accomplish anything --with the Bunker gone too, did it bring an ultimate end to the war, or will the Machines and Androids just restart somewhere else?

What was the meaning of A2's life?


(Spoilers for Ending E, choosing "Yes")

The player gives meaning to 2B, 9S, and A2.

The player is the one who points out, even if I have to sacrifice my existence for others, even if they never find out, even if they never realize it was me, if my live is lived for others, then it has meaning. And they, in turn, are free from a pointless fate. They, too, can live for themselves and for others. And on, and on. The cycle of pointless destruction becomes a cycle of constant renewal and rejuvenation. Is it pointless, too? What gain is there from a life whose purpose is someone else's benefit, unto infinity?

The gain is that whoever comes next can learn from our experience. The little bit we leave them with becomes part of them; then whatever they leave, someone else will inherit. And so we are all enriched with memory and meaning, and we can use these to find even further meaning in ourselves.

We, the players, experienced the same life, the same excitement, the same sorrows. We shared all of this, and it connected us with other people all over the world. Thousands of people playing innumerable "cycles". Playing the same events, over and over and over again, with no end. No end, at least, until they reach out and connect with someone real. But we can't "touch" one another until the very end. A new player, with little experience, can't choose to sacrifice their memories for the sake of someone else. Only someone who knows the value of it can appreciate the meaning of the game's final act. And the weight of that act, more than anything else in the game, connects people. Is that something that we can take from that act into real-life?

So 2B and 9S, as well as A2, are literally rebuilt from a decision taken by the player. Not by plot or narrative or storytelling, but by direct action from the God that put the Androids and the Machines in the endless cycle to begin with. The same God that 2B would rage against at the very beginning of the "game". The player put the characters there --the player, in performing their own sacrifice, takes the characters out, and allows them their freedom. What happens to the Androids after the final end of the game? Who knows! We, the ones who controlled their fate, have let them go. They may have adventures exploring the landscape just for the joy of it; they may wake up and fight each other over a tragic misunderstanding; they may dedicate themselves to fishing and open up a fish taco stand whose only customer is Jackass (hold the mackarel). Whatever they do, is up to them. And what this says about our aforementioned ability to live our lives for others, and to pass something along to them, is up to you.

Last edited by Zef; 07-24-2017 at 10:32 PM.
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  #434  
Old 07-24-2017, 11:08 PM
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I was in a very dark place for a lot of this year, and Ending E felt hollow to me. What I got from it was the game saying, "Boy, this ending sucks, doesn't it? Destroy the game's creators and change it!" I wish they didn't bring back the save data deletion thing, because that was completely out of place in the first game, and is just as incongruous here even with all the emotional weight forced onto it. I deleted my save data at the end simply because that's what the game wanted me to do, and I had already done everything worth doing and was done with it. Then the DLC came out a few weeks later because trolling their audience is one of Japanese creators few outlets to let out their crushing misery.
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  #435  
Old 07-24-2017, 11:46 PM
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The relationship between 2B and 9S makes them a lot more relatable or is at least really popular. The content produced both officially and by fans seems to center on this.

Nier is the ultimate dad but Yonah is too boring to care about saving. Kaine and Emil are both romantically in love with Nier but without reading Grimoire Nier you might not be able to figure it out.
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  #436  
Old 07-25-2017, 07:15 AM
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I already had a great moment in part B right at the beginning: When 9S is walking 2B through the options menu and you're watching a video of what you did before. I was slapping my chair in delight.
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  #437  
Old 07-25-2017, 07:21 AM
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I already had a great moment in part B right at the beginning: When 9S is walking 2B through the options menu and you're watching a video of what you did before. I was slapping my chair in delight.
That's right around where I stopped playing...
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  #438  
Old 07-31-2017, 09:03 AM
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Got endings A-E (and a couple others)

The mashup of Platinum combat and RPG structure was interesting, but I'm not sure it totally worked. Having a Souls-style recovery mechanic is a fine idea, but it seems like you lose too much if you fail to do that. After getting decent auto and deadly heal chips, I essentially stopped dying, but if you struggle with the combat at all, and lose valuable chips, that makes it seem like it would be a pain to get back to where you were. And I don't like entering a fight in a beat em up game only to find it will take me over five minutes to do any real damage to the enemy because I'm underleveled.

The side quests were... pretty good. The quests themselves were tolerable, but the story payoff for them was often fantastic. I do wish I could tell when I got a quest whether I would get that payoff or not though. I did most of the quests and got about half the weapons, but I didn't go out of my way to find anything that wasn't marked on the map.

The music is amazing. All the songs for different areas are great, and the way the game switches it up and uses it for effect is impressive.

As far as the story goes, I liked it as a sci-fi story about the nature of life in route A, appreciated the deeper dive in route B, and really enjoyed the complete breakdown in the third route. Ending E was a really strong moment, and I gave up my save file in appreciation of the players who gave up theirs so I could get past it. I assume the saves aren't getting fully erased when you get hit because based on my own performance, the attrition rate would be too high for the ecosystem to be sustainable.

The game didn't hit me emotionally like it seems to have hit some others - there's lots of great moments and some hard choices, but nothing really wiped me out. I read a summary of the first game to understand the connections, and was surprised by how much was already there. I might watch an LP at some point.
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  #439  
Old 07-31-2017, 10:08 AM
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And I don't like entering a fight in a beat em up game only to find it will take me over five minutes to do any real damage to the enemy because I'm underleveled.
On the other hand, I was a complete masochist in that I entered the fights with the Undying Machine (or whatever its name is) at the bottom of the ravine, and the Golden Bro and Sis (who have a lot more HP than the Golden Tank or the Golden Goliaths) knowing that it'd take me over an hour to whittle them down pixel by pixel.

I think something broke in me about one third through the fight with Golden Brother.

Quote:
I assume the saves aren't getting fully erased when you get hit because based on my own performance, the attrition rate would be too high for the ecosystem to be sustainable.

Yeah, I assume that the "sacrificial data" persists in some way; unless you're a shmup prodigy, you'd go through several "shields" before you got to the end, so that'd end the collection of voices pretty quick. But it would be an absolutely Yoko Taro thing to do if the server-side data manager kept the sacrificial data around until it hit a critical point in the user base, then started actually deleting those who were destroyed by the credits. Then, a few months or years from now, there'd be nobody left.


Quote:
The game didn't hit me emotionally like it seems to have hit some others - there's lots of great moments and some hard choices, but nothing really wiped me out. I read a summary of the first game to understand the connections, and was surprised by how much was already there. I might watch an LP at some point.
Nier 1 enriches the experience, but isn't really necessary, as Automata explains itself and develops its world and characters in its own terms. The only part that I absolutely could not live without, as a fan of the first game, was the surprise appearance of the Village Library, copied down to the very last detail.

It was more symbolic than anything, but it was a nice surprise.
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  #440  
Old 07-31-2017, 11:25 AM
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I didn't mean to suggest you need to play Nier to feel emotions about Nier: Automata's story, but I imagine it would help with certain elements, such as Devola and Popola.
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  #441  
Old 07-31-2017, 02:41 PM
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It didn't really affect me all that much until Ending E, but then I bawled like a baby. A video game let me show love to another human being, and even if the actual mechanics involved are a bit fuzzy, I got played like a fiddle.
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  #442  
Old 07-31-2017, 04:47 PM
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Default That's a route C spoiler but you already know what it is if you've seen it

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On the other hand, I was a complete masochist in that I entered the fights...knowing that it'd take me over an hour to whittle them down pixel by pixel.
I was also like this, trying to take on quests that were above my level. But then I tried to do the parade escort one. Before even failing the mission, I and especially my wife couldn't withstand hearing the machines crying out for help.

The only thing more disturbing was when 9S mounted the 2B of his memories and repeatedly stabbed it.
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  #443  
Old 07-31-2017, 05:26 PM
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On the other hand, I was a complete masochist in that I entered the fights with the Undying Machine (or whatever its name is) at the bottom of the ravine, and the Golden Bro and Sis (who have a lot more HP than the Golden Tank or the Golden Goliaths) knowing that it'd take me over an hour to whittle them down pixel by pixel.
I think you're supposed to hack the golden enemies.
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  #444  
Old 07-31-2017, 05:51 PM
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I think you're supposed to hack the golden enemies.
Not on Route A~ (I just spent more time than is reasonable grinding out Attack Up and Critical Up chips).
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  #445  
Old 08-03-2017, 09:01 PM
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Man this game is doing a fucking great job of making me hate it by killing me with one shot instant death self destruct enemies near the end of the game in route c. I have now died to this bullshit more than I've died to literally any other fight in the entire game combined and it's doing an absolutely fantastic job of making me want to just quit the game right here.
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  #446  
Old 08-04-2017, 06:37 AM
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Have you tried just lowering the difficulty?
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  #447  
Old 08-11-2017, 07:55 PM
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Ending E reached and I am ended. Please enjoy this modest [G]allery.
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  #448  
Old 08-11-2017, 08:22 PM
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I also reached Ending E tonight and Hoo Boy that was something amazing. Had put the game down 3 months ago due to Persona and hadn't come back until yesterday, turns out I had 4 hrs left. Damn.
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  #449  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:37 PM
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I actually just finished my replay of it tonight as well. Still fantastic.

Something I didn't really think about the first time through stuck out to me this time through: the fact that 9S learns the truth about humanity -and YoHRa's purpose in maintaining the lie of their survival- at the same time that 2B was dealing with the suicide cult of machines is clearly intended to draw a parallel between the cult and YoHRa. Even if YoHRa isn't literally directing their soldiers to jump into molten steel, it's not really any less of a suicide cult than those machines in the factory. Hell, the commander even says to 9S "We need a god worth dying for".
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  #450  
Old 08-20-2017, 05:36 PM
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So, I downloaded this on steam today. I've tried playing from the start twice, and both times had the graphics freeze up before ever being given a chance to save. So after a total of 1hr spent playing, I would have to start over from the damn beginning *again* if I try to pick this up again.

(My attempts to search for related issues only show problems around launch on a card way older than what I have.)

So... I guess I just don't get to play this?
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cavia , do not fist android girls , don't date robots , don't stop me now , it's happening , nier , nierer my god to thee , platinum games , square enix , this can (not) continue

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