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  #6421  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:37 AM
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Life is a great big bang-up.
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  #6422  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Sven View Post
Yeah, the Black Order are pretty clearly being set up as the jobbers for the Avengers / Guardians
Ah, but then who will be the ones to job to the Horsemen Black Order?

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Needs a pinch of salt?
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  #6423  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:30 PM
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Just saw Spidey today. I really liked it! I'll write up more on it later when I have some time to mull it over.
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  #6424  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:36 PM
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I think my only criticism is that I don't really think he needs a high tech suit with an, admittedly very polite and nice, lady built into it offering him superhero advice. We've got a guy for that already.
Yeah, it was good for a few jokes, but it's basically J.A.R.V.I.S. all over again. I felt kind of relieved when he had to give the suit back.
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  #6425  
Old 07-19-2017, 01:43 AM
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Just saw Spidey today. I really liked it! I'll write up more on it later when I have some time to mull it over.
Same. I could have done without the heavy handed Extended Marvel Universe nonsense on top that added nothing and could have been easily excised from the film. And making Spiderman a dude who grew up in a world filled with super heroes changes the character for the worse. But they nailed the tone and character of Spiderman pretty damn well, and the 'down to earth' stories are something amazing that 1) fills a gaping hole in super hero stories these days and 2) Marvel has completely lost sight of in a bizarre "I've forgotten my own identity" moment. Easily the best Marvel movie ever. It's too bad we'll have to wait a few years for a sequel, I'd watch a new Spidey movie like this every year easy.
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  #6426  
Old 07-19-2017, 08:45 AM
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Yeah, it was good for a few jokes, but it's basically J.A.R.V.I.S. all over again. I felt kind of relieved when he had to give the suit back.
I think the massive overcomplexity of the suit (and the similarity to JARVIS) are actually the point and are supposed to be a little off-putting.

Peter idolizes Iron Man and sees him as a combination mentor/authority/parent figure. He ends up letting himself fall entirely into Tony's orbit and become Iron Man Jr. -- he sits around waiting for orders from Tony and/or Happy, he dreams of becoming an Avenger, and he ends up wearing a Stark-brand suit that has a million baffling functions he doesn't need (most of which are locked out via babysitter-themed protocols), including a JARVIS-alike for him to talk to. In the final battle Peter proves to himself and to Tony that all he really needs to be a hero are his own wits and the ability to do whatever a spider can.

The final scenes see Tony inviting Peter to once again get back onto the Iron Man track -- here's an even more complicated suit, here's a room at Avengers HQ, and here's a room full of reporters to re-enact the "I am Iron Man" scene. Be like me, Peter. Be just like me. But Peter rejects it all and goes back to his actual life (a third meaning for Homecoming) where he can capitalize on his actual strengths instead of trying to wriggle into a pre-made mold that isn't a particularly good fit for him.

I don't expect we'll see Karen, Enhanced Interrogation Mode, Instant Kill or any of the other more exotic suit functions again, because this movie was about Peter learning he doesn't need any of those things.
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  #6427  
Old 07-19-2017, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Vaeran View Post
I don't expect we'll see Karen, Enhanced Interrogation Mode, Instant Kill or any of the other more exotic suit functions again, because this movie was about Peter learning he doesn't need any of those things.
I want Rocket to hack into the suit and enable Enhanced Interrogation Mode to annoy Peter to no end.
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  #6428  
Old 07-19-2017, 10:05 AM
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THIS IS ACCEPTABLE
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  #6429  
Old 07-19-2017, 10:15 AM
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...and I just realized, we'll soon be watching chaotic battle scenes where there's two Peters, a Steve, and a Stephen.
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  #6430  
Old 07-19-2017, 10:18 AM
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and all of them are played by a chris
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  #6431  
Old 07-19-2017, 10:18 AM
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...and I just realized, we'll soon be watching chaotic battle scenes where there's two Peters, a Steve, and a Stephen.
It's not that strange. Just keep a quill in your cap and you can park 'er right there in the theater and take notes.
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  #6432  
Old 07-19-2017, 10:30 AM
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It's not that strange. Just keep a quill in your cap and you can park 'er right there in the theater and take notes.
ROGER ROGER
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  #6433  
Old 07-19-2017, 11:03 AM
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I saw Spider-Man. Definitely enjoyed it, but even though it was integrated fairly well with Peter's arc, I just wasn't too keen on it still being so tied into the MCU. It might not have been a traditional origin story, but it still felt like one. Michael Keaton was great though, and all the humor really worked. Also, none of Peter's friends were white.
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  #6434  
Old 07-19-2017, 03:43 PM
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Considering the expanded MCU universe on a whole, I am having trouble finding actual reasons for Stark to recruit Peter as an Avenger (other than popularity obv). Because unlike the comic books, movie Peter is 15, wholly inexperienced and ultra green, seems mostly non-threatening and his powers pales in comparison to most of the other heroes even with the Stark suit. Even if Peter joins, he still seems like he is being sent to die.

But entertaining movie nonetheless, I think I liked it more than Dr. Strange. Hopefully next movie is Sinister Six.

PS. Love the bomber jacket + wing shaped flight pack look, moreso than the spider costumes.
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  #6435  
Old 07-19-2017, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by manicmailman View Post
Considering the expanded MCU universe on a whole, I am having trouble finding actual reasons for Stark to recruit Peter as an Avenger (other than popularity obv).
Because the current Avengers lineup looks like this:
  • Iron Man, who wants to retire but can't
  • The Vision, who recently learned he can't shoot straight when he has a boner
  • War Machine with a busted ass
  • That's it

Mostly Tony is just desperate to have someone to talk to whose life he isn't directly responsible for creating and/or ruining. WHOOPS
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  #6436  
Old 07-19-2017, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Vaeran View Post
this movie was about Peter learning he doesn't need any of those things.
That's certainly true. I like how Tony's "If you're nothing without this suit, then you shouldn't have it" echoes his time exploring those very same doubts back in Iron Man 3. Continuity of character development is one of the greatest advantages of a long series like this.
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  #6437  
Old 07-19-2017, 05:04 PM
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Vaeran has about 99% of why Tony would want Peter in the Avengers. Their office parties are looking mighty disassembled right now.

The other 1% is that Tony is also a friggin' control freak. Having "discovered" Peter, he wants him completely and absolutely under his wing. The denouement is, partly, Peter "redeeming" himself by proving he doesn't need the suit to be selfless, heroic, and kind; but it's also Tony realizing goddamn this kid is taking risks and taking down Avenger-level baddies without the suit, I better bring him in so he obeys my orders to the letter from now on.
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  #6438  
Old 07-19-2017, 06:28 PM
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Homecoming is both a triumph and a disappointment when it comes to Spidey's characterization. They nail the personality and character down better than anyone's ever done it, but the foundations this Spidey is built upon is shaky at best. I actually appreciated that this film said "you know what, let's not re-litigate Spider-Man's origin story for a third time this century" and merely implied the stuff that happened with Uncle Ben. Everyone knows Spider-Man and his origin story, it's not necessary.

Except this film felt it was necessary to still tell an origin story anyways. The plot beats were all the same, just altered to fit into this MCU, and thus watered down. Replace Spider-Man's hard learned dogma about being a good guy, and not abusing your powers with Tony Stark's absentee mentorship and lukewarm mantra about super suits. Aunt May or his BFF could have delivered the same line and stern condemnation and it would have worked a lot better and been more affecting.

And while on the one hand, giving Spidey a light-hearted origin story helps keep the character more consistent with his more wide-eyed, youthful outlook and demeanor... it robs the character of the foundations for his absolute moral fortitude. He's a good kid in this movie just kinda... because. There's not really much of a personal struggle here with regards to doing the right thing. He's just intrinsically good, and that strays away from the character being a grounded, relatable human being in the Marvel Universe versus the intrinsically good and flawless god-men of DC Comics.
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  #6439  
Old 07-20-2017, 12:11 AM
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If anyone thinks that Spider Man: Homecomming didn't stay true to Spidy's moral core just because it doesn't dwell on Uncle Ben just remember "If you're going to shoot someone shoot me." and the fallout that actually had.

It's a pretty optimistic view of both the character and the world, and I'll take that over nearly any amount of melodrama.
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  #6440  
Old 07-20-2017, 01:39 AM
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Also at the end Vulture didn't give up Peter's identity because he respected him too much as a person. Peter saved the villains life and he was rewarded for it.
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  #6441  
Old 07-20-2017, 02:25 AM
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I just hope that Stark pays attention to the fact that two 15-16 year old kids hacked a suit he designed with an over the counter laptop and hires them right as soon as they graduate.
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  #6442  
Old 07-20-2017, 06:19 AM
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Peter is constantly trying to do what he considers to be the responsible thing (and usually aware of the consequences to his personal life), it's just that he lacks judgement to do it properly or know when not to do it. Half the time he feels just as responsible because he thinks the adults won't listen, like a teen would.

There's a whole exchange between him and Ned wrt May. There's the thing at the party, and then the trip to DC, the entire ferry sequence and then the scene with Liz at the dance. Yes, the main arc is linked to his Avenger aspirations, but he's never a glory hound. He simply believes (mistakenly) that he's ready to help and do more. Like a teen would.

It seems that people are simultaneously glad the movie doesn't dwell on Uncle Ben or the "great power" line, and disappointed we're not explicitly told they drive Peter in this story... despite being told in Civil War and his several attempts to uphold the responibility directive in Homecoming.
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  #6443  
Old 07-20-2017, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manicmailman View Post
Because unlike the comic books, movie Peter is 15, wholly inexperienced and ultra green, seems mostly non-threatening and his powers pales in comparison to most of the other heroes even with the Stark suit. Even if Peter joins, he still seems like he is being sent to die.
I wonder if movie Spider-Man is still physically superior to movie Captain America. They definitely beefed up Steve's strength from the comics.
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  #6444  
Old 07-20-2017, 08:00 AM
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I wonder if movie Spider-Man is still physically superior to movie Captain America. They definitely beefed up Steve's strength from the comics.
I feel like he's been trending that way for a while in the comics too. You're right - when I started reading him, Cap seemed comparable to Batman, but Movie Steve seems pretty comparable to Ultimates Cap, who they say can throw cars around and such.

(...except he's not an asshole.)
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  #6445  
Old 07-20-2017, 08:06 AM
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I don't think I've ever seen comics Cap do anything like throwing a motorcycle at a truck.
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  #6446  
Old 07-20-2017, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
I wonder if movie Spider-Man is still physically superior to movie Captain America. They definitely beefed up Steve's strength from the comics.
He almost certainly is. Movie Cap struggles when he has to fight Bucky; it's possible Steve isn't willing to use his full strength against his friend, but they seem pretty closely matched. In Civil War, Peter catches a punch from Bucky's metal arm with one hand, and is able to hold him in place while he casually remarks on how cool it is.

Also, keeping a chopper from taking off is hella impressive, but holding two halves of a ferry together is even more so, and both appeared to be exerting their maximum strength in those moments.
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  #6447  
Old 07-20-2017, 08:13 AM
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I don't think I've ever seen comics Cap do anything like throwing a motorcycle at a truck.
I definitely recall a line in Ultimates about Cap being able to bench press Buicks or something similar.

But, of course, that could just be Millar engaging in his usual levels of no-fucks-given.
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  #6448  
Old 07-20-2017, 08:22 AM
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Man I don't read ultimate comics
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  #6449  
Old 07-20-2017, 08:24 AM
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Man I don't read ultimate comics
Nobody else does either, since they've been gone a couple years now.
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  #6450  
Old 07-20-2017, 08:30 AM
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'Twas a mercy-killing towards the end. But they've been more influential on the MCU than any recent Marvel comic (starting from the precasting of Jackson as Fury and moving on from there).
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