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  #1  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:39 AM
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Default The Amazing (but obnoxious and dumb) Spider-Man

Hi folks,

I'm currently reading old issues of "The Amazing Spider-Man", right now I'm at ca. #75 (which came out ca. 1969). Until now I had only watched the movies and the animated series produced up until now.

I hereby declare Spider-Man (in the comics) is an obnoxious, selfish, jealous, angsty, hot-headed and dumb asshole.

At least I get this feeling when I read the comics. Everytime someone wants to help him, he just brushes them off, doesn't let them finish talking, gives them names etc.

I realize Stan Lee did this to make Spider-Man different and so that people could identify themselves with him, but seriously...who would want to identify himself with such a dumb, ignorant fool?

I don't know if my memory is just clouded, but I just can't remember Spider-Man being pictured this way in the animated series, especially not in the one from the 90's.

I mean, every second issue I want to yell at him to "Shut up and Listen!" for once in a while...

But apart from that, I really like the phenomenom "Spider-Man".

So, what's this thread for?
I say to discuss your favorite comics of the Webspinner, to muse upon developments young and old...whatever makes your day. :-)
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  #2  
Old 02-12-2008, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
I don't know if my memory is just clouded, but I just can't remember Spider-Man being pictured this way in the animated series, especially not in the one from the 90's.
He wasn't. The original characterisation has been largely attributed over the years to Steve Ditko's co-plotting role, as when he was replaced by Romita Peter got markedly less dickish. Granted, the original characterisation worked well at the time because it was so different, but things changed pretty quickly. The 90s animated version of Spider-Man, much like the BTAS Batman, was more of an amalgam of all characterisations which had come before than tied to anything specific: there's a little bit of Lee in there, but also healthy servings of Roger Stern, Marv Wolfman, Peter David and David Micheline / Todd McFarlane (I'm not going to get into the debate over who did what on their issues) tossed in there.

#s 89&90 are when the good stuff really gets going... and then about a dozen issues later, Stan leaves and you're into the Conway years, which contain the most important event in Spidey's history and start to set the stage for the modern characterisation of Peter you're more familiar with.
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  #3  
Old 02-12-2008, 09:27 AM
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Also, Triple-J gets on my nerves really fast. I also don't like the reason he hates Spider-Man (because he is a do-gooder and doesn't demand money which makes Jameson the exact opposite and a human failure).

Does Jameson get a better excuse for hating him later on?
How long will the bickering of Jameson go on, btw? Will he be converted at last? I don't want to know the exact details, just see for how long I am gonna have to "bear" with him ^^
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Old 02-12-2008, 09:38 AM
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JJJ's motivation always changes. First it was a natural distrust of people who wear masks because his wife was shot by a masked gunman, then it was what you said, and sometimes it's just to piss people off as a way to sell papers.
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Old 02-12-2008, 09:41 AM
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The JJ thing was very representative of the 60s counterculture the original Spidey was conceived as, with JJ representing The Man and being very goofy as a result. They fixed him over the years - now his stance is more that he thinks people shouldn't wear masks and / or get in the way and take credit from real heroes like the cops, which is certainly reasonable if a bit short-sighted.

EDIT: And, yeah, he knows that Spider-Man coverage sells papers. JJ ain't stupid.

And I don't think even Marvel's dumb enough to ever "convert" JJ. They've humanised him over the years, but he's a jerk and proud of it and that's why the character works. Hitler-stache (... REAL subtle, Stan and Steve...) and all.
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  #6  
Old 02-12-2008, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danowar View Post
Will he be converted at last? I don't want to know the exact details, just see for how long I am gonna have to "bear" with him ^^
Oh you're going to be waiting for a looooong time.
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  #7  
Old 02-12-2008, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
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JJJ's motivation always changes.
Let's ask Spider-Man himself what he thinks about it.
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  #8  
Old 02-12-2008, 11:22 AM
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Haha, I love Dan Slott.
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:38 AM
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Indeed. That issue of She-Hulk is easily in my top ten favourite comic books ever. The entire thing is awesome, and becomes even better once you understand that Slott was paying tribute to the old Marvel joke that Spider-Man always guest-starred in the fourth issue of any new title to give it a sales boost.

Too bad his She-Hulk run went flying off the rails after doing brilliant stuff like this early on... there's so many great potential Marvel Universe lawsuits out there, and he never did the Daredevil / She-Hulk crossover that was obvious to everyone except Bendis.
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:48 AM
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Dan Slott was ousted from She-Hulk, wasn't he? I felt that if he had more time, he would have tied everything up rather well.

He is writing Spider-Man now, and I got the faith in Slott.
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  #11  
Old 02-12-2008, 11:55 AM
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I lol'd.

On a related note... (DANGER: Not funny!)
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  #12  
Old 02-12-2008, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sraymonds View Post
Dan Slott was ousted from She-Hulk, wasn't he? I felt that if he had more time, he would have tied everything up rather well.
It wasn't so much ousted as he got stuck with the rest of the MU interfering with the carefully-set-up world he created, so instead of being a whacky comedy book where Titania was the biggest bad guy encountered, he had Jenn arguing about the registration act and joining up with SHIELD, which just felt out of place.

On the other hand, the A/B story that wrapped up the book was a nice attempt by Slott at explaining all the inconsistencies throughout the Marvel Universe... but since I think he's the last one that cared about such a thing, it felt like a waste.
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  #13  
Old 02-12-2008, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danowar View Post
On a related note... (DANGER: Not funny!)
That is actually pretty funny.
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  #14  
Old 02-12-2008, 03:34 PM
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It's mainly just scary. Jameson looks like the fucking Devil in the second panel.
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  #15  
Old 02-12-2008, 03:52 PM
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Wow, I just read too many issues at once, it seems. Right now, I'm ending today with issue 100, when Peter transforms into the Man-Spider. Ha, I loved the time he was like this in the 90s series. Who am I kidding, I loved the whole run ^^
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  #16  
Old 02-12-2008, 04:48 PM
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I like the playful, wise-cracking Spiderman best. There was a cartoon series in the early 1980's called Spiderman and His Amazing Friends that I feel captured his personality perfectly. Imagine Alan Alda with the "maudlin" switch broken off, and you've got a pretty good idea of what Spiderman was like on the show. He even sounded a little like Alda!
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  #17  
Old 02-13-2008, 06:15 AM
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One of the things about classic Spider-Man that stuck with me was how lame The Enforcers were.
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  #18  
Old 02-13-2008, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
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One of the things about classic Spider-Man that stuck with me was how lame The Enforcers were.
When I was just a young'un, my parents bought me comics almost at random. There was a single issue of Green Lantern that starred a family of talking goats, an issue of Flash where the Eradicator (a Superman villain) almost kills Goldface (a Green Lantern villain), and an issue of Spider-Man where him and the Sandman team up to fight the Enforcers.

There's only one of those that made any sense on its own, and that's why I still want to see the Enforcers in the next Spider-Man movie.

What always irked me about early Spider-Man issues was how poorly he got along with every other hero in the Marvel Universe. Come on, Pete! Is it that unreasonable to think that Mr. Fantastic might save your life some day? Maybe he actually deserves a bit more respect...

And why on Earth are you fighting Iceman? You guys are Spider-friends, aren't you?
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:30 AM
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It also bugs me how he never bothers to try re-engineering his web fluid to make it last longer when his one attempt to sell it backfires when he reveals that it dissolves after a few hours.
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  #20  
Old 02-16-2008, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
One of the things about classic Spider-Man that stuck with me was how AWESOME The Enforcers were.
fixed.
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  #21  
Old 02-19-2008, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
It also bugs me how he never bothers to try re-engineering his web fluid to make it last longer when his one attempt to sell it backfires when he reveals that it dissolves after a few hours.
Peter David (I think) actually turned that into a good gag: if Peter had been smarter about what you could use the webbing for, he'd be remembered as the inventor of the Post-it Note.

And I think the explanation is that he CAN make the fluid last longer, but it would lose its elasticity in the process, which would make it impractical.
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  #22  
Old 02-19-2008, 09:44 AM
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I just saw Gwen Stacy's neck snapping.

Then I saw the Green Goblin getting impaled by his own glider...


Ch-ch-ch-changes!!!!
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  #23  
Old 06-22-2008, 02:50 AM
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Thread Necromancy!!!

So, I'm currently in 1985, and the Secret Wars II just started...

What I want to know is, if I read Secret Wars, do I really need to read the other tie-in issues?

If I don't read Secret Wars II now, will the Spider-Man tie-ins make any sense?

And as an additional question: How many similar escapades (with tie-ins) will irritate me in the times to come? I hate when Marvel does something like that...

(I bet the answer will be: "Live with it, they'll be doing it constantly"
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Old 06-22-2008, 02:53 AM
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I don't know about Secret Wars II, but Spidey does play a rather beefy roll in Inferno.
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  #25  
Old 06-22-2008, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
I don't know about Secret Wars II, but Spidey does play a rather beefy roll in Inferno.
*googles Inferno*

Oh my god.

Seriously, how does someone read something like this?
Especially today, where you don't just find all included issues.
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  #26  
Old 06-23-2008, 07:52 AM
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Seriously, how does someone read something like this?
There's two different styles of crossover:

(1) The "spine" crossover, where there's a main series and most of the books usually take one idea from that and do their tie-in organically. Generally, these tend to be the GOOD crossovers, since you can read the main series for the main plot and mere awareness of what's going on is all you need to keep up. Best example is probably DC One Million, which everyone just took as an excuse to have some fun with "future" characters while Morrison wrote a typically insane story in the main title.

(2) The "thread" crossover, where you have one story that goes on in twenty different books. These are the bad types of crossover (although the ones that generally started the trend - Death / Return of Superman and Knightfall/quest/end - were very good), as if you're reading a tie-in book you're usually sideswiped and reading part 4 of 12 and having no idea what the hell is going on. The Batbooks were notorious for these types of things.

For the most part, anything in a book before 1990 will be okay to not bother with the "bigger" story. The only exception would be the changes from Secret Wars (the black costume), where Shooter came up with the rather brilliant i

You're actually coming up on the end of the best part of Spider-Man - towards the end of the 80s, they started tying the individual titles together more and things got progressively worse until the Clone Saga basically killed the books.

And don't worry at all about Secret Wars II. That was like an Assistant Editor's Month joke that everyone else took seriously.

(On the other hand, Spidey does teach the Beyonder how to take a poop.)
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  #27  
Old 06-23-2008, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by danowar View Post
Seriously, how does someone read something like this?
One of my close friends loves superhero comics, but is reluctant to read anything I give him because he doesn't want to get "sucked back in." He got burned by Onslaught or whatever it was called. If you read Final Crisis and Secret Invasion plus all the tie-in books it would cost over $400.
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
He got burned by Onslaught or whatever it was called.
One of the absolute WORST examples of a "thread" crossover.
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  #29  
Old 06-23-2008, 08:18 AM
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Hey, I enjoyed the overall story of Onslaught, it was just murder on my 13-year-old self's wallet. Between it and the next year's big X-Men crossover, though, I did get burnt out on buying all the random books to keep up with the story, though. I don't even bother to buy comics anymore these days outside of the cheap-o $7 manga. Most of the American TPB are $30+ and its just not worth it for something that is merely 100 pages or less.
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  #30  
Old 06-23-2008, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
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Most of the American TPB are $30+ and its just not worth it for something that is merely 100 pages or less.
Most TPBs top out at $16.
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