The Return of Talking Time

Go Back   The Return of Talking Time > Talking about media > Talking about television games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-14-2018, 06:22 PM
Issun's Avatar
Issun Issun is offline
Mega Man 4 Superfan
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sad Lesbian Capital of the World
Posts: 16,620
Default LTTP: ALBW

I just did the opening through the Sanctuary. I'm thinking this Yuga person is up to no good.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-14-2018, 06:43 PM
Bongo's Avatar
Bongo Bongo is offline
oh my car
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado Land
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 21,702
Default

Mind if I steal some of your thunder? I was gonna finish up my comparative playthrough of the trilogy of Zelda 1, A Link to the Past, and A Link Between Worlds, and today is the starting day. I promise to tag spoilers.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-14-2018, 09:32 PM
Issun's Avatar
Issun Issun is offline
Mega Man 4 Superfan
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sad Lesbian Capital of the World
Posts: 16,620
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
Mind if I steal some of your thunder? I was gonna finish up my comparative playthrough of the trilogy of Zelda 1, A Link to the Past, and A Link Between Worlds, and today is the starting day. I promise to tag spoilers.
I don't see why not. The more the merrier!

Finished the Eastern Palace. This game is already making me think in new ways about how 2D Zelda should be. The smoothness and arc of Link's sword swing alone makes it one of the most playable installments in the series.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-15-2018, 08:35 AM
narcodis's Avatar
narcodis narcodis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Salt Lake City UT
Posts: 4,245
Default

Everyone needs to know that this was quietly the best Zelda game to exist until Breath of the Wild came out.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:04 AM
clarice clarice is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 28
Default

My only complaint of A Link Between Worlds is that it is not a cool game. It is not atmospheric.

This is not what i want from my Zelda games. But, from a gameplay perspective, i love it.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:15 AM
Vaeran's Avatar
Vaeran Vaeran is offline
whatever it takes
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 7,919
Default

There is nothing cooler than a singing pink octopus who makes boomerangs fly better by sucking on them.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:56 AM
Loki's Avatar
Loki Loki is offline
Funko Superfan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Pronouns: He/Him
Posts: 15,856
Default

I disagree, Lorule is a place
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-15-2018, 11:30 AM
clarice clarice is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 28
Default

To be fair, i don't know why i feel disconnected to the world and story in Link Between Worlds and not in other Zeldas. At first glance it might seem to be because it is more silly, but that can't be true - Zelda has always been full of silliness, and i love the Malo from Twilight Princess or the chain chomp with a ribbon in Link's Awakening or whatever.

So i'm sorry for not being able to explain my reactions, haha!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:26 PM
narcodis's Avatar
narcodis narcodis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Salt Lake City UT
Posts: 4,245
Default

ALBW certainly has more levity and more highly animated characters than almost any other game in the series, I'll agree to that. Maybe rivaled only by Minish Cap or Wind Waker. I have a hard time seeing that as a bad thing, though.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-15-2018, 01:36 PM
Balrog's Avatar
Balrog Balrog is offline
Hungry in Dungeon
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 13,311
Default

My only beef with ALBW is that the art style took some time to grow on me. It's fantastic otherwise.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-15-2018, 01:46 PM
Bongo's Avatar
Bongo Bongo is offline
oh my car
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado Land
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 21,702
Default

I'll dig into this. Shit, let's get critical.

Gut reaction: a big element of LttP and Zelda 1 was that it's hard to tell what is important. I don't just mean unlabeled caves; you're constantly venturing into the unknown and you don't know whether you're going to get at the end of the path. An upgrade? A mysterious thing you can't interact with? The critical path of the plot?

Coming fresh off of Skyward Sword, their headspace was preoccupied with the idea of ensuring the player understands what to do, but with feedback that just telling them what to do is a way that the game self-destructs. They wanted the player to decide on their own how to approach the world, and didn't expect it would be much fun to pick a direction arbitrarily and start going. For the parts of the game that are important - like how you gain new abilities - there was a need to be able to communicate in advance the sort of thing the player might run into if they follow certain kinds of path.

So the way they solved that was by leaning on visual design that covers a wider range. They drew on the series' tradition of incongruous comedy, something that had emerged since LttP, and used big, loud, silly images as one of the ways to make the most essential details draw attention.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-15-2018, 01:47 PM
Patrick's Avatar
Patrick Patrick is online now
of the Black Falcons
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Pronouns: he, him
Posts: 19,093
Default

I feel like ALBW is in line with the goofy nature of the portable games. It might be a bit more silly than LTTP, but it's not out of place for the series.

And yeah, it's easily a top 5 Zelda game. I don't know that it had anything to do with the design of BOTW, but I wouldn't be surprised if its success encouraged them to experiment more with game structures that had become stagnant.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-15-2018, 05:30 PM
narcodis's Avatar
narcodis narcodis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Salt Lake City UT
Posts: 4,245
Default

ALBW was Nintendo's return to form, but with a fresh approach. While the game is open-ended and enables a high degree of autonomy to the player, it is also extremely straightforward and delicately simplistic. The whole game revolves around a single mechanic -- merging into walls -- and rides that almost the entire way through the game.

Most Zelda games are gated heavily behind the tools Link collects. In games like OOT, the Hookshot might be found in one dungeon, but you'll need it to complete a majority of the dungeons going forward. In contrast, ALBW game opens up nearly everything quite early on, allowing the player to explore to their hearts content. And if a dungeon needs an item to progress, there's a sign right outside the entrance, indicating thus (often a dungeon isn't accessible at all without the required item). Note that every dungeon requires only one (or zero!) items to complete, with the exception of the final dungeon (which still only requires two or three items I believe). The item in tandem with the wall-merging mechanic is all the player ever needs in a given dungeon. This level of simplicity is part of what makes the game so great, in my opinion.

To make this work, the game designers made the bold decision of decoupling item acquisition from dungeon exploration altogether. The only items you find in dungeons are armor, shields, or sword upgrades. Everything else necessary for progression are found in Ravio's shop, with the one exception of the Gloves, the first upgrade being found at a guy's house, the second upgrade within a dungeon. With this, players are now free to explore anything and everything as soon as they get the rupees to set forth.

It's a bold choice, and one that actually carried on in Breath of the Wild, where all your tools for solving dungeons are just given to you right at the start of the game. I think it's a great direction for Zelda as a series, personally.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-15-2018, 09:46 PM
Bongo's Avatar
Bongo Bongo is offline
oh my car
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado Land
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 21,702
Default

The thing that sticks out right from the beginning of ALBW, in comparison to LttP, is the characters. By which I mean, there are characters. The opening nightmare is interrupted by someone with an actual name. You meet the villain near the start, and he's got so much personality that he's humming his own theme song. And then your destination giver is the comically craven Ravio, who's a big improvement over the dryly omniscient telepath Sahasrahla. Later on, each of the prisoners of the temples has not just a name but an actual story, and you even get to meet them first, a far cry from the interchangeable exposition-giving maidens of the prior game, of whom even the titular Zelda was one.

And speaking of Zelda herself, people in the olden days latched onto your uncle's "Zelda is your..." (the end of the sentence is "destiny") and that was all they got. But I suppose that technically still is the point where they establish the tradition of giving her the strongest characterization of whatever game she's in.

You start off able to freely and safely poke around a peaceful environment in order to establish a contrast with the fallen kingdom of Lorule, taking a different approach than LttP took. LttP was riffing on Zelda 1, adding more detail to a Hyrule that was previously established to be a wild and threatening place, only to up the ante later on with a surprise trip to an even deadlier Dark World.

It's Triforce of the Gods 2, but it's difficult to overstate the aesthetic contributions of the intervening games, and the idea of showing the player the world they're trying to save is one of the biggest things to carry forward. And the major key baroque brass version of the Hyrule Castle theme is part of that.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-15-2018, 09:53 PM
Paul le Fou's Avatar
Paul le Fou Paul le Fou is offline
We just don't know.
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 19,602
Default

ALBW is easily the Secret Best Zelda game.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:39 PM
Bongo's Avatar
Bongo Bongo is offline
oh my car
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado Land
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 21,702
Default

Holy shit, you can put a heart in a bottle. I somehow never accidentally swung the net when there was a heart pickup nearby.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-15-2018, 11:27 PM
Issun's Avatar
Issun Issun is offline
Mega Man 4 Superfan
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sad Lesbian Capital of the World
Posts: 16,620
Default

Did Isle of Gales. There are so many things you can do that just couldn't be done on SNES or Gameboy. Not having items in the dungeons makes them super breezy, too, with just enough puzzling to not overstay their welcome. And if the first boss is any indication, it might have the best boss fights of at least the 2D entries.

Cucco Rush can die in a hole though.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-16-2018, 06:07 AM
Poster Poster is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcodis View Post
Most Zelda games are gated heavily behind the tools Link collects. In games like OOT, the Hookshot might be found in one dungeon, but you'll need it to complete a majority of the dungeons going forward. In contrast, ALBW game opens up nearly everything quite early on, allowing the player to explore to their hearts content. And if a dungeon needs an item to progress, there's a sign right outside the entrance, indicating thus (often a dungeon isn't accessible at all without the required item). Note that every dungeon requires only one (or zero!) items to complete, with the exception of the final dungeon (which still only requires two or three items I believe). The item in tandem with the wall-merging mechanic is all the player ever needs in a given dungeon. This level of simplicity is part of what makes the game so great, in my opinion.

To make this work, the game designers made the bold decision of decoupling item acquisition from dungeon exploration altogether. The only items you find in dungeons are armor, shields, or sword upgrades. Everything else necessary for progression are found in Ravio's shop, with the one exception of the Gloves, the first upgrade being found at a guy's house, the second upgrade within a dungeon. With this, players are now free to explore anything and everything as soon as they get the rupees to set forth.
I had a different reaction to this, namely that I think I prefer the "gated" approach of LTTP, where the designers could assume that the player would have certain items going into a dungeon and could design it accordingly.

Quote:
It's a bold choice, and one that actually carried on in Breath of the Wild, where all your tools for solving dungeons are just given to you right at the start of the game. I think it's a great direction for Zelda as a series, personally.
I haven't played Breath of the Wild, so I can't comment there, but if they do give you all the tools (and not just a handful) you would ever need from the jump, then I would have less of a problem with the open approach, since the designers would know you have lots of tools at your disposal and could design every dungeon around them.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-16-2018, 07:17 AM
ThornGhost's Avatar
ThornGhost ThornGhost is offline
That bug is NUTS!
 
Join Date: May 2008
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 4,594
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcodis View Post
Most Zelda games are gated heavily behind the tools Link collects. In games like OOT, the Hookshot might be found in one dungeon, but you'll need it to complete a majority of the dungeons going forward. In contrast, ALBW game opens up nearly everything quite early on, allowing the player to explore to their hearts content. And if a dungeon needs an item to progress, there's a sign right outside the entrance, indicating thus (often a dungeon isn't accessible at all without the required item). Note that every dungeon requires only one (or zero!) items to complete, with the exception of the final dungeon (which still only requires two or three items I believe). The item in tandem with the wall-merging mechanic is all the player ever needs in a given dungeon. This level of simplicity is part of what makes the game so great, in my opinion.
A simple thing that didn't really register on my first playthrough is that Ravio always has the item you'll need for the next dungeon on sale. Sure, if you've got the rupees you can choose any "extra" items you may want to bring along, but getting the required dungeon item is never gated behind any amount of grinding.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-16-2018, 07:38 PM
Issun's Avatar
Issun Issun is offline
Mega Man 4 Superfan
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sad Lesbian Capital of the World
Posts: 16,620
Default

One thing I'm noticing is that this game is fairly easy. Hearts are plentiful, and aside from a couple of enemies, Link tends to be pretty durable. Also you can stunlock Gibdos.

I'm not complaining, as the puzzling seems to be front and center in this one, but the easy combat does make the game friendlier, which I'm liking.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-16-2018, 08:05 PM
Issun's Avatar
Issun Issun is offline
Mega Man 4 Superfan
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sad Lesbian Capital of the World
Posts: 16,620
Default

Also, this game sent me looking for a new avatar. I hope it's not too sexy for you all.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-16-2018, 08:50 PM
Isrieri's Avatar
Isrieri Isrieri is offline
Works for me
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Don't worry about it
Posts: 2,130
Default

I said this a while ago, but my only real complaint with ALBW is that the aesthetics of the game, and specifically the dungeons, lose a certain something with the design decisions they made. All the dungeons feel like a square that's been hollowed out, instead of a maze of rooms. What I liked about the older dungeons is that although puzzle solving and combat were big factors, the main challenge focused a on navigation and orientation. Zelda has always been big on that. The challenge of the dungeons was just trying to figure out how to navigate them and figure out the route to the big key, then the big chest, then the boss, without hitting too many dead-ends. A lot of that gets lost in ALBW (with the exception of the ice palace which did deliver that for me), but at the cost of being far more intricately designed than it's predecessor. It's very much a nitpicky esoteric complaint. There's probably a lot to be said about how the dungeons and their design differs between the two games, given the different approaches taken in item acquisition.

I think both games actually aren't that far apart in difficulty, but the ease of ALBW's buttery-smooth controls make it feel ten times easier, for certain.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-16-2018, 08:53 PM
narcodis's Avatar
narcodis narcodis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Salt Lake City UT
Posts: 4,245
Default

The game gets a bit tougher later on, but you also get better armor/gear etc. So it does stay pretty easy.

However, beating the game will unlock Hero mode, which makes the game significantly harder.

BTW if yall wanna get crazy, I recently played through the game (on normal!) with 3 hearts and no upgrades and no permanent item purchases, and boy. That's pretty hard but suprisingly not as hard as you might think. Re buying items is annoying but never came close to running out of money. And you realize most every enemy and boss broadcasts all their attacks very clearly, so you always have time to react to everything. Although the final boss almost made me give up on it all, I enjoyed the challenge a lot and it really made me appreciate this game all the more. Would recommend yall give it a shot if you want a fresh perspective on what is already an excellent game.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-16-2018, 10:34 PM
Bongo's Avatar
Bongo Bongo is offline
oh my car
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado Land
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 21,702
Default

The game certainly feels a lot less hostile, and the fact that your sword is actually worth a damn this time around is only part of it. Link glides across the screen easily, and more of it is visible at once, so everything feels open. This is what contributes to the boxy feeling of the dungeons as well (it's not like LttP's dungeons were any less rectilinear). It's a 3D game in which everything is the size it would be in a 2D game, and consequently the stereoscopic effect is in the "looking into a diorama" tradition.

This has a pretty negative effect on the Lost Woods. The higher visibility means that the layout is much more comprehensible at a glance, so in order to actually get someone lost in 'em they had to add that lousy ghost puzzle.

This game began its life as a remake of Link to the Past. I wonder how much of the decision to make it a sequel instead came from the observation that the graphical style that the 3DS hardware enabled affected the aesthetics in a way contradictory to the design.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-16-2018, 10:37 PM
aturtledoesbite's Avatar
aturtledoesbite aturtledoesbite is offline
earthquake ace
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Pronouns: Any
Posts: 17,070
Default

my favorite thing about ALBW:

Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-16-2018, 10:42 PM
Bongo's Avatar
Bongo Bongo is offline
oh my car
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado Land
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 21,702
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
my favorite thing about ALBW:

And that skew is done dynamically. The distortion is not applied during cutscenes or when you're on a wall.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-17-2018, 07:47 AM
narcodis's Avatar
narcodis narcodis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Salt Lake City UT
Posts: 4,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
And that skew is done dynamically. The distortion is not applied during cutscenes or when you're on a wall.
The environmental distortion is definitely still there when merging into walls.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-17-2018, 08:45 AM
upupdowndown's Avatar
upupdowndown upupdowndown is offline
REVOLUTION GRRR STYLE NOW
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cincinnati
Pronouns: he/him/his
Posts: 12,188
Default

ALBW plays so damn good - and the 60FPS framerate means that the 3D for it works better than just about any other 3DS game. a real triumph.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-17-2018, 10:48 AM
Issun's Avatar
Issun Issun is offline
Mega Man 4 Superfan
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sad Lesbian Capital of the World
Posts: 16,620
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
my favorite thing about ALBW:

🎵Seres are you okay
Are you okay
Are you okay Seres?
🎵
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-17-2018, 05:19 PM
Destil's Avatar
Destil Destil is online now
Chaotic Good
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Pronouns: he / him
Posts: 22,638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
ALBW is easily the Secret Best Zelda game.
Everybody knows that, it's not a sec...

Oh.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
a link between worlds , lttp , zelda

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Your posts İyou, 2007