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  #1111  
Old 07-14-2017, 07:39 AM
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I was wondering how Chrono Trigger also managed to make it to No. 1 of the board games list. Now I understand.
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  #1112  
Old 07-14-2017, 08:25 AM
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Ha, this is like how the number one joke in a Letterman Top Ten is never that funny.

So Metroid Prime is #1?
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  #1113  
Old 07-14-2017, 09:45 AM
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Wait, Chrono Trigger DS is bad?!
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  #1114  
Old 07-14-2017, 09:52 AM
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Default Life at 60 FPS: Talking Time's Top 50 Games of the 21st Century

Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls was robbed.

It's as good as TWO Final Fantasies!
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  #1115  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muteKi View Post
Wait, Chrono Trigger DS is bad?!
I don't know if the port is bad or anything (it seemed fine to me), but the extra content they added is really not very good.

The solution is just not to play the extra content because if you don't you're still playing one of the best games ever
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  #1116  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grignr View Post
Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls was robbed.

It's as good as TWO Final Fantasies!
God, if I knew y'all were gonna put these games on there I would have put on Ys: 1 and 2 on there, because ya gotta have twice the ys
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  #1117  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:25 AM
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#1


Wake up, Link

Developer: Nintendo EPD
Publisher: Nintendo
Platforms: Wii U, Nintendo Switch
Release: March 3, 2017
530 Points, 18 Votes, Highest Rank: #1 (Westerhof,
ThornGhost, muteKi, Rivers)




Credit to Carbot

When voting started for this thread, Breath of the Wild had been out for exactly 81 days. By contrast, the second newest game on the list had been out for a year and a half. There are only four games in the Top 20 from the last five years and 7 in the Top 50. Only one of them cracked the Top 5, and it is our number 1 game since the dawn of the new century.

I say all this to show that the games on here have mostly been given a chance to stand the test of time, and the select few that haven't are of such high quality and impact that they still made the list. But still, this game is still in diapers and it is number one. Whoowee.


This is not to say it doesn't deserve it. I can only speak so much for the game, as I haven't even faced off against a boss yet, but the fact that I am driven to take the game slowly, to really savor it, does say something. To start with, it is absolutely gorgeous. For a game conceived on hardware that was aging before it was released, the game looks better than most PS4/XBone/ top-of-the-line PC games. The overworld itself is two times larger than Skyrim's. It hardly feels fair to compare it to Ocarina of Time, but it's probably about 50 times as big. The Hyrule Field that felt so expansive almost 20 years ago appears downright claustrophobic compared to 2017 Hyrule. The fact that, even as large as it is, every inch is a labor of love, with something to catch your eye always, is a big reason for the game's immediate appeal. And while there's no rousing overworld theme, the soft piano chords that play instead fit the more contemplative tone of the world.


While so much of Hyrule feels like the last two decades of gaming giving back to their major inspiration, Zelda's dungeons have always been specifically Zelda. While expansive, varied dungeons are the main thing missing from this game, the shrines are excellent stand-ins. All the equipment you need to finish any shrine is available within the first hour of play, and you can tackle these bite-sized dungeons whenever you come across one. That the aesthetic is the same for all of them is mitigated somewhat by said aesthetic being darn cool to look at, though it may get tiresome towards the end. The puzzles are the same clever stuff you've come to expect from the series, though, so no worries there.


I don't have much to say about the game's combat. Wind Waker perfected fighting in Zelda a long time ago, and even Breath of the Wild can't really match it there as far as the everyday stuff goes. The main detractor from combat, though, and from the game in general, is that it feels like the team didn't quite understand weapon durability. It definitely adds to the strategy of the game, but weapons break so fast that you're constantly scrounging for new ones, and there's no way to tell how damaged it is until it's almost broken. Like that cool laser sword? Too bad, it broke after killing four Bokoblins. After looking at the Souls games, Dragon Quest Builders, and others, there was a perfect template for how to implement the system, but the BotW team went their own way, for better or for worse. For me so far it's made combat something to avoid generally, especially when increasing weapon slots can be laborious in and of itself.


Like I've said, I haven't gotten to all the true meat of the game yet, but what I've experienced so far is at worst a mixed bag. What is good about it, though, is everything we've wanted from a Zelda game since the NES and SNES installments first set the tone 30 years ago. I do wonder how this list would look in a couple of years. Will the game only grow in popularity and aplomb, becoming an undisputed classic? Or will the shine wear off, will other games do what it did better, will tyrants that voted for it lament that maybe they should have put something else higher? It's a question we can't answer with certainty right now, but like many things, the truth is likely somewhere in the middle. For some, it will remain their forever favorite. Others will come across something they like more, and some might look back and feel they were mistaken. It happens. I can say with some truth that I would have put this game on my list had I experienced it sooner. It is far from perfect. It is not like the #1s on some of the other Top 50 lists, where the result was never in doubt and it ended up with a hundred more points than everything else. As I said, both Portal and Metroid Prime looked to unseat it at various points, but in the end it climbed back up and took its crown. To have earned such a thing in three month's time is pretty impressive, and TT being more circumspect than many other places on the internet, it is very surprising to see something so new take the top spot, even if it is one of the most superlative entries in the most beloved game series of all time. Certainly it deserves consideration as the best Zelda since Ocarina, possibly since the SNES and Gameboy entries. Is it the best game of the last seventeen years? Enough people thought so. Really, any of the games in the Top 10 could have easily claimed this spot, and the point differential between them is negligible when compared to how Chrono Trigger or Chess have trounced their competition. Really though, we weren't voting for the best overall game anyway, though Breath of the Wild definitely deserves to be in that conversation. No matter, because however you slice it, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild is Talking Time's #1 Game of the 21st Century.

Selected Track:
Shrine
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  #1118  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:26 AM
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And that's it. That's all the gaems. I hope you all had fun reading it. I certainly enjoyed doing it. It was grueling at times (I won't be able to even look at a spreadsheet for a few months), but it was all very much worthwhile.

I'd like to thank everyone who participated, a special thanks for the contributors, and a super-extra-special thanks to Galadrome, without whom the Nocturne, Tactics Ogre, EOIV and Persona 3 posts would have been much sparser and less engaging.

I'll post the master list tomorrow, along with links to some polls dosboot whipped up in regards to the list. I am hoping, though, that everyone will hold off for at least a few hours posting theirs so that people can talk about Zelda for a while first. Very much looking forward to Loki's Marios coming soon.

I'll leave you with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by muteKi View Post
The greatest game of the 21st century turned out to be us all along
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  #1119  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:26 AM
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bunch of Zelda fan boys and girls...

Knack got robbed.
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  #1120  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:32 AM
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Congratulations, Zelda! Er, Link. Whatever.

(I honestly feel dumb now for not expecting BOTW when everyone else seemed to pretty sure they figured it out.)

Out of respect for proper Zelda discussion and Issun's wishes, I'm going to wait until tomorrow to post my list and act smug about how far down I shoved Dark Souls.
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  #1121  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:33 AM
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I have to wait a while longer before I can rank BotW as the #1 game of the past 17 years.

Almost certainly I will, though.
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  #1122  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:35 AM
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It's a pretty good game, y'gotta admit
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  #1123  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:35 AM
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I was not expecting this to rank quite as high as of a few weeks ago, but I became a bit suspicious when we cracked the top 10 without it appearing.

BoTW is definitely the best 3-D Zelda since Wind Waker. It's a great game, but the capital D Dungeons were a bit too slight for me to put it in my list. The shrines were fun, but I'd have accepted less of them for better REAL dungeons.

For my money, Majora's Mask and The Wind Waker had the best satisfying dungeon and expansive overworld balance.
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  #1124  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:36 AM
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Speaking on the matter at hand, I bought it day of its release for the WiiU. It downloaded over the day and I've never touched it.

I keep finding other things to do...
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  #1125  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:37 AM
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Breath of the Wild and Wind Waker are the only two games I've had excited watercooler discussions with co-workers about what we'd discovered. The openness of the map and the critical mass of everyone playing the same game makes those experiences unique for me.
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  #1126  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:40 AM
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Great list Issun! Really good job all around. Looking forward to playing Breath of the Wild some day, though I'll have to get a Switch someday to play it.
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  #1127  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:41 AM
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What was the other game that people expected might be first? I thought Demon's Souls as a long shot, but it's never been that popular around here.

I'm not even reading the #1 description, and I haven't visited either of the threads for it since it came out. I should probably pick it up soon so I can quit avoiding everything about it.
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  #1128  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:42 AM
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I thought Dark Souls had a chance of being #1 when I first made my list, even with the backlash it's experienced on the forum as of late.

I was also mildly surprised neither of the Nier games made the cut on the low end of the list.
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  #1129  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:48 AM
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I thought, "No, there's no way FTL could be #1"


And I was right.
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  #1130  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:55 AM
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Can we list our lists now? Because I'mma gonna!


  1. Shovel Knight
  2. The Legend of Zelda: Link Between Worlds
  3. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
  4. Bioshock
  5. Portal
  6. Resident Evil 4
  7. Metroid Prime
  8. Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King
  9. Etrian Odyssey 4
  10. Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
  11. Doom 4
  12. Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3
  13. Super Mario Galaxy
  14. New Super Mario Brothers U
  15. The Legend of Zelda; The Wind Waker
  16. Mega Man 10
  17. Street Fighter IV
  18. Super Mario 3D World
  19. Fire Emblem Awakening
  20. Crimson Skies
  21. Borderlands 2
  22. Pokemon X/Y
  23. Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride
  24. Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen
  25. Dragon Quest IX: Sentinals of the Starry Skies



There's a few I'm genuinely surprised didn't rank in the top 50, considering Talking Times preferences. Fire Emblem especially.
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  #1131  
Old 07-14-2017, 10:59 AM
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1) Dark Souls
2) Bloodborne
3) Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
4) XCOM: Enemy Within/Enemy Unknown
5) Shadow of the Colossus
6) Super Mario Galaxy
7) The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
8) The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
9) Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
10) Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (PSP)
11) Resident Evil 4
12) Silent Hill 2
13) Bioshock
14) Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater
15) Metroid: Zero Mission
16) Metroid Prime
17) Bayonetta
18) Mother 3
19) Devil May Cry 3
20) Undertale
21) Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
22) Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4
23) Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
24) Portal
25) Final Fantasy X

21 out of 25 of my nominations made the list. Hooray for me having incredibly generic talking time tastes!
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  #1132  
Old 07-14-2017, 11:12 AM
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I'm hoping Issun counted Doom 4 as Doom, because I was a little surprised it didn't make the list at all. Best shooter of the decade. I guess I'm not too surprised no Ratchet or GTA or Uncharted or Witcher games made the list, considering the forum.

I think it's premature to call Breath of the Wild the best game of the last 18 years, but it's certainly darn good.
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  #1133  
Old 07-14-2017, 11:19 AM
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Even having put the #1 entry as my own personal #1, I'm still fairly shocked that neither Nier made the list at all. Am I posting on the right Talking Time?

Anyway, my list, with ones that didn't make it in bold.

1. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
2. Gitaroo-Man
3. Undertale
4. Portal 2
5. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
6. Minecraft
7. Metal Gear Solid 3
8. Rez
9. Samba de Amigo
10. Shadow of the Colossus
11. Ico
12. We Know the Devil
13. Gone Home
14. Skies of Arcadia

15. Silent Hill 2
16. Space Channel 5 Part 2
17. The Yawhg
18. 30 Flights of Loving
19. Psychonauts
20. Phantasy Star Online

21. Etrian Odyssey IV
22. Rock Band
23. Bully

24. Metroid Prime
25. Persona 4
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  #1134  
Old 07-14-2017, 11:23 AM
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1. Fallout 3
2. Wii Sports - Had a lot of fun with this game. One of the few I actually played with my family.
3. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas - I haven't played 5 but it is easily the best of the series. Best soundtrack, best setting and the main character isn't a gloomy gus like he was in 4 and wasn't as much of a jerk as the lead from Vice City (though I still like that one).
4. Super Smash Bros. Melee
5. Portal
6. Red Dead Redemption
7. Shadow of the Colossus
8. Resident Evil 4
9. BioShock
10. Tekken Tag Tournament 2 - Biased on this. Played this a ton when I was teaching in Korea. My go-to was a tag team of Jaycee and King. If the character is a luchadore, I'm going to play them.
11. Rock Band - I felt I had to choose between this and Guitar Hero and I went with this.
12. Final Fantasy X
13. Kingdom Hearts
14. Hearthstone
15. Jump Ultimate Stars - It's basically just Smash Bros. with Shonen Jump characters. Shame the series ended with this one (no, I'm not counting the more recent games, whose style is not for me).
16. Katamari Damacy
17. Mass Effect 2
18. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare - I get why people can be down on this series, but it sure is an addictive game to play with friends.
19. L.A. Noire
20. Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3
21. Frog Fractions
22. Double Dragon Neon
23. Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Actually going into Oblivion is the least fun part of the game.
24. Ico
25. Duck Game
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  #1135  
Old 07-14-2017, 11:23 AM
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Breath of the Wild is a combination of two of my favorite games from the past decade into one fun little package:

Portal. The small challenges of the shrines are usually focused on one or two core mechanics, using tools and items you've gathered over the course of the game. They build complex (but short, importantly) puzzles out of a handful of regular mechanics, and the correct solution is the one that works. While the game doesn't make framing these challenges as engineering puzzles as on-the-nose as Portal does (given that the majority of the game and its sequel take place in a series of industrial test chambers), it's certainly the same idea. And while "puzzle dungeons" were nothing new with Zelda, the smaller size and scope of the dungeons is what gives me these vibes; they have the scale of a Portal test chamber, which as people note is quite uncommon for the series.

Just Cause 2: Breath of the Wild has a lot of obvious influences in high-profile open-world gaming. Elder Scrolls tends to be the one that gets the most recognition due to the similar European high-fantasy setting they take place in, but I think getting around, interacting with the world, and experimenting with your tools has more in common with JC2 overall. Part of it comes down to how aerial you are in this game; my early experience with the game was one of drudgery, because your tools in exploring the starting area are limited, making traversal difficult. Once you get the paraglider, though, everything changes. A lot of the fun is to get to a really high place, get on the glider, and go out looking for things to interact with, whether they're shrines, towns, horse gatherings, or enemy encampments.

Just Cause 2's biggest flaw, I think, was that its procedural world generation led to a really big map that was populated by too many of the same kinds of installations, in particular the radar stations frequently found near the tops of mountains. Cities, villages, and more extensive bases were quite interesting, but those radar stations were the majority of destructible environments, and required specific navigation and interaction to beat up (you couldn't just fly up a helicopter to the area and blow things up like you could with most other bases, since you had to get on foot to actually activate the broadcast tower before you could damage it).

Zelda fixes this by changing the game focus: the enemy encampments aren't bases to be destroyed, and are instead populated by a varying range (depending on things like your performance in battle) of enemies, who can be fucked around with in order to get their innards, their weapons, sources of fire, food, etc. Sometimes killing them all gets you cool weapons locked away in a chest! There may not be a lot separating one encampment from another, but the differences are all more pronounced, since they affect how you reach them (Can you try to take out enemies with stealth tactics? Arrows from a higher vantage point? Knocking them off the cliff?) and the tools at your disposal (Light a stick on fire and use it to set enemies ablaze? Toss around metal boxes so that you save wear on your weapons? Bombs?). There's also no real penalty for just avoiding camps; no number goes up to an eventual 100% completion number when you beat enemies.

Meanwhile, there is only one really big base to be sieged, and that's Hyrule Castle at the center of the map. It's intentionally very difficult to access; while it's theoretically possible to get there within a half an hour of play, surviving the encounters from the many enemies there is very difficult and will require alertness and care -- can't just go in with a mounted gun and blow everything up, no. Lots of great weapons to collect scattered around the interior, too. Unlike a lot of these games, where you have a mission to siege a base and then it's yours and it's your starting location and supply base, the Castle is never not hostile. Your best bet? Get in, get what you want, and get out ASAP if you're doing a supply run. It may be the only dungeon of its kind in the game, but its continued presence as a threat means that it can stand alone, because of the way it encourages iterative exploration like that.

Both Just Cause 2 and Portal were on my list. It's little wonder, then, that the game that combined their design ethoses in an interesting and thoughtful way was the one that got the top spot on it. Everyone should play it if they get the chance.
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  #1136  
Old 07-14-2017, 11:27 AM
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Here's my list:
  1. Dark Souls
  2. ICO
  3. Resident Evil 4
  4. Portal 2
  5. Super Mario Galaxy
  6. Zelda: A Link Between Worlds
  7. Demon's Souls
  8. Shadow of the Colossus
  9. Wipeout 2048
  10. XCOM: Enemy Within
  11. Dark Souls 2
  12. Bloodborne
  13. Mass Effect 3 (2 made it)
  14. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Melee made it)
  15. Journey
  16. Metroid Prime
  17. Ghost Trick
  18. Etrian Odyssey IV
  19. Morrowind
  20. Sound Shapes
  21. The Last Guardian
  22. Final Fantasy XII
  23. Fallout New Vegas
  24. Dishonored
  25. Rocket League

I had a lot of the top 10 on my list, but I had some outliers too.
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  #1137  
Old 07-14-2017, 11:31 AM
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I want to share my list, but because so few of the games I put on mine made it onto the big one, I'd definitely want to do a lot of writing to explain why I love them so much.
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  #1138  
Old 07-14-2017, 11:38 AM
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And here's my picks.
  1. Ghost Trick
  2. Professor Layton And The Curious Village
  3. Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
  4. The Legend Of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
  5. Final Fantasy IX
  6. Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
  7. The Legend Of Zelda; The Wind Waker
  8. Metroid Prime
  9. Luigi's Mansion
  10. Pyschonauts
  11. Minecraft
  12. Warcraft III: Reign Of Chaos
  13. Super Mario Galaxy
  14. Overwatch
  15. Super Smash Bros Melee
  16. Skies Of Arcadia
  17. Diablo III
  18. World of Warcraft
  19. Final Fantasy XIV
  20. Dragon Quest: Rocket Slime
  21. Dragon Quest VIII
  22. Team Fortress 2
  23. Final Fantasy XI
  24. Xenoblade Chronicles
  25. Pac-Man Championship Edition

We haven't seen eye to eye on a lot of stuff, TT, but I think I did okay.

Last edited by Daikaiju; 07-14-2017 at 01:54 PM.
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  #1139  
Old 07-14-2017, 11:40 AM
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I will say, looking over my list, I genuinely regret not having Outrun 2006 on it, but I suppose that was mainly to cope with grief over the fact that you can't actually buy it on Steam any more.
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  #1140  
Old 07-14-2017, 11:48 AM
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Here's mine.
  1. The Last Guardian (2016)
  2. Ico (2001)
  3. Shadow of the Colossus (2005)
  4. Katamari Damacy (2004)
  5. MOTHER 3 (2006)
  6. Demon's Souls (2009)
  7. Xenoblade Chronicles (2012)
  8. Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (2010)
  9. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (2000)
  10. Bloodborne (2015)
  11. Metroid Prime (2002)
  12. Journey (2012)
  13. Toki Tori 2 (2013)
  14. Super Mario 3D World (2013)
  15. Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow (2003)
  16. The Legend of Zelda: A Link between Worlds (2013)
  17. Half-Life 2 (2004)
  18. Etrian Odyssey IV (2012)
  19. Wild Arms 3 (2002)
  20. Jet Set Radio Future (2002)
  21. Cave Story (2004)
  22. Flower (2009)
  23. Gone Home (2013)
  24. Rez (2001)
  25. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U (2014)

Even looking at this now, I'm agonizing over what I didn't find room for. Man, what a tough topic.

Thanks for running this, Issun!
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50 games > hotline miami , all games are good , all phones are bad , bae > talking time , democracy was a mistake , falselogic likes to watch , full life consequences , list all the gaems , madhair60 fps , multiple persona disorder , top 50 countdown

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