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  #541  
Old 06-21-2017, 07:10 AM
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I'm very interested in how many RPGs are making the list. I think this is because I rarely find that RPGs really fit in with what I look for in a game; They can tell a story, but seldom do I feel that they manage to tell a story that wouldn't have been more interesting in another medium. So when judging the quality of "The Best Games", I try to look at stories that really could not have been brought across better in other mediums. Hotline Miami is an example of this.

I think I voted for precisely 1 JRPG, which I can guarantee nobody else has voted for; It is the game that brought me into the genre and for that holds a special place in my heart and in my list (also I ran out of games I could truly call Best). The JRPG is still among my favorite genres, but it rarely impacts me in any significant manner.

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Originally Posted by Sami View Post
It does not. Rhythm Heaven DS is the worst Rhythm Heaven game,
You're going to have to defend this statement because I hold the complete opposite opinion.

The flick mechanics made it a significantly better and more involving game than any other in the series; Games like Lockstep and Cosmic Rhythm Rally are a chore in Megamix but fantastic in Gold. Simply everything about it is more visceral and engaging than any other iteration in the series!
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  #542  
Old 06-21-2017, 08:34 AM
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Honestly, even though I voted for mostly RPGs in my top list, I don't think they are good in telling stories at all. The reason I enjoy them the most is because they usually have the best music of all genres (music is subconsciously my top criteria when rating games), a nice feeling of exploration and an interesting combat system that's neither overly complex nor too dependent on good reactions, but instead rewards effort.
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  #543  
Old 06-21-2017, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Werewolf View Post
You're going to have to defend this statement because I hold the complete opposite opinion.

The flick mechanics made it a significantly better and more involving game than any other in the series; Games like Lockstep and Cosmic Rhythm Rally are a chore in Megamix but fantastic in Gold. Simply everything about it is more visceral and engaging than any other iteration in the series!
I guess the stylus controls are what make or break Rhythm Heaven DS. For me, they were just too finicky, and at the same time, completely unneeded. Rhythm Heaven was built for buttons, and in this game the stylus controls don't add anything to the experience, unlike many other DS games.

I generally liked DS stylus games, but Rhythm Heaven was one of the rare instances where I thought I would rather play with buttons.

Doesn't help that I couldn't find songs that I liked as much as in the other games, either.
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  #544  
Old 06-21-2017, 10:14 AM
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#26


Dog is not usually on my menu, but I shall make you an exception!

Developer: Clover Studio
Publisher: Capcom
Platforms: Playstation 2
Release: April 20, 2006 (JP), Spetember 19, 2006 (NA), February 9, 2007 (EU),
February 14, 2007 (AU)
186 Points, 9 Votes, Highest Rank: #2 (Issun)




You guys are going to have to indulge me on this one. I have been in love with this game since I first saw screenshots for it in EGM back in 2005. Every once in a while I just know the minute I see something about a game that I am going to love it, and Okami was one of those. It was my highest ranked game that made the list, and until Life is Strange came along it was my all time favorite game not called Super Metroid or Chrono Trigger. I'm going to try not to get too rambly here, but no promises.

The first thing anyone will notice about Okami is the art style. To this day it's still one of the most beautiful looking games in existence, thanks to Clover's ability to translate Japanese watercolor art into a cel-shaded, polygonal game. The result was absolutely stunning. If the visuals were all it had going for it, though, it would not have impressed as much as it did. However, it succeeds nearly everywhere else, too. The gameplay is very Zelda-like, but different enough to feel like its own thing. The mechanics of a wolf goddess are different from those of a Hylian teenager, for one thing, although Zelda got its own shot with wolf mechanics, but while Twilight Princess is a good game, Wolf Link was never the smooth, speedy joy to control that Amaterasu is. She glides across fields with grace, making running between locations less of a bother than most games of Okami's ilk. The other gameplay addition is the Celestial Brush, which is basically your magic but done with brush strokes in certain patterns (a swipe for a slash, a curly-q for wind, and so on). Drawing your spells may sound intimidating to some, but thankfully, the mechanics are pretty forgiving, if a bit janky sometimes.

The world of Okami's Nippon is also filled with charming characters: The mysterious Wakka, the cowardly Susano, the buxom Rao and, of course, the indomitable Issun (which all smart and good-looking people agree is an excellent handle to use on a forum). Then there is Ninetails, which I still consider to be the greatest boss battle of all time.

I could go on about this game forever, so I'll stop myself now and end with this: Okami is aesthetically incredible, a joy to play and a wonder to inhabit. It may tend to the long side, but compared to some of the other games on this list it's downright zippy, and how can you not love the way the character's heads get all squishy when they talk their Animal Crossing language and...

Okay, I'll stop now.

Selected Track:
Kamiki Village
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  #545  
Old 06-21-2017, 10:15 AM
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#25


We just got a fine ostrich, so I'll go out back and wring its neck for you.

Developer: Atlus
Publisher: Atlus
Platforms: Nintendo 3DS
Release: July 5, 2012 (JP), February 6, 2013 (NA), August 30, 2013 (EU), September 12, 2013 (AU)
188 Points, 9 Votes, Highest Rank: #8 (Galadrome)




Much has been made of the EO series's descent into skeeviness, and my search for an appropriate quote for this entry revealed this concern is not without weight. However, it made enough improvements on the formula that it managed to earn the series's top spot on this list. I mean, it adds airships, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

Now, my time with the Etrians Odyssey is limited to about a half-hour with the second installment, so I don't know much about the games. I do know that the venerated gaming site IGN tapped our own Mr. Parish for its review, so I will defer to him, wherein he mentions that it is the most friendly to beginners, the most balanced while offering the fewest choices at the outset (sometimes too many choices are a bad thing; just go barbecue sauce shopping if you doubt), and it offers more regions.

The EO series has reputations both unsavory and offputting to most gamers, but it is by this point one of the great RPG series, and that does not happen without good reason.

Let's hear it from Galadrome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadrome
Etrian Odyssey IV is a game that compresses all of my favourite things in RPGs without any annoying fluff.

- Simple story.
- Nameable, blank slate characters combined with deep party building (Very specific favourite thing, I know).
- Tough RPG combat that requires a working knowledge of the game's system (Or Accel Drive) that can be beaten with virtually any party.
- Bold map design that is willing to challenge the player, be tedious or otherwise screw with them. In conjunction with map drawing this is the most fun I have ever had exploring in an RPG.
- A good balance of resource management wherein you have to really think about what you spend.

That's basically the game, in a nutshell, and it is amazing. Just pure RPG joy. In my mind, EOIV is the RPG which all other RPGs should look to because it mechanically 'clicks' better than any other RPG I have played.

*Some people don't like the flying bits, but I personally enjoy the more varied locations in this one compared to the others. I realize that, yes, technically the other games are just as varied. But because there's a geographic distance it gives the feeling of being an adventure rather than a deeper plunge into the same dungeon.
Selected Track:
Windy Plains

Last edited by Issun; 06-21-2017 at 03:19 PM.
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  #546  
Old 06-21-2017, 10:26 AM
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Okami is Very Good.
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  #547  
Old 06-21-2017, 10:28 AM
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Mmmm, Okami. I had it pretty high up as well, definitely a fave. I've gushed about it on the forums plenty of times before and Issun pretty much covered it so I won't go on. But it's just a joy to play. As Issun mentioned the running mechanics are the best feeling ever. And yeah, it keeps going at several points where it feels like it could have ended, but hye, more great game. I think of it kind of like three seasons of a story in one package.
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  #548  
Old 06-21-2017, 10:31 AM
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Catching up on this thread!

I don't like shooters at all, so it speaks volumes about how good Half Life 2 is that it is one of my favorite games of all time. I've probably replayed it more than any other game. It has aged remarkably well and is still great to this day.

I played Valkyria Chronicles recently as well and really liked it. It was really unique and had some of the best artwork I've seen in any game. I have issues with the story (the characters treat their country being totally overrun by vastly superior military superpower like its some mild inconvenience happening somewhere far away) but the characters were pretty charming and the gameplay is challenging and fun.

Final Fantasy IX is one of my favorite FFs but it hasn't aged well. I might check out the Steam release which I understand fixed a lot of my problems with it.
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  #549  
Old 06-21-2017, 10:33 AM
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Yeah, Okami is super long, but really good. I didn't vote for it, but I'm glad it's on the list.

EO IV is just wonderful. It's my favorite game in the series and one of my all time favorite games period. It's so much more friendly than the earlier games, but it doesn't lose its edge. I'd love to do a FJF style run with randomized classes.
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  #550  
Old 06-21-2017, 10:57 AM
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Okami topped out at around...I forget if 40 hours was the whole game or just the first half now, since it's been pushing on a decade since I last played it. It's good though; length and quality compares quite nicely to Breath of the Wild. These are the only two (3d, at least?) Zelda games I know of that have an unlimited supply of bombs. Both were on my list.

Last edited by muteKi; 06-21-2017 at 11:21 AM.
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  #551  
Old 06-21-2017, 11:14 AM
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Etrian Odyssey IV made it to #18 on my list. It was the first (and, so far, only) EO I've played, but it sunk its hooks in me and has got me into the series as a whole.

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These are the only two Zelda games I know of that have an unlimited supply of bombs. Both were on my list.
Link between Worlds!
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  #552  
Old 06-21-2017, 11:21 AM
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I still haven't gotten around to that one, as shameful as it is to admit
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  #553  
Old 06-21-2017, 11:45 AM
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Please play LbW
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  #554  
Old 06-21-2017, 11:53 AM
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EO4 is EO at its best and I'm tickled that it ranked so highly.

Okami I played all the way through but, other than its visuals I didn't see what all the fuss was about. Then again, the visuals warrant quite a lot of fuss.
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  #555  
Old 06-21-2017, 11:55 AM
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Rez Half-Life 2 Journey Okami is a game I've wanted to play ever since it came out, but haven't yet!
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  #556  
Old 06-21-2017, 12:00 PM
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Man! This list is making me think I don't belong among you people.
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  #557  
Old 06-21-2017, 12:13 PM
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I voted for the original EO since it kicked off a great series but EO4 is more modern and friendly to play (and one of the two I finished).

Okami is the first Zelda-like I voted for to make this list and my list was heavy in them since I was trying to limit my another-installment RPG entries.

Okami is great but it feels like an entire trilogy mashed into one game.
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  #558  
Old 06-21-2017, 12:19 PM
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IV is by far the best EO game, though III is easily my favorite.
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  #559  
Old 06-21-2017, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destil View Post
IV is by far the best EO game, though III is easily my favorite.


Unsurprisingly, III was the other one I beat (not counting spin-offs Strange Journey or Persona Q).
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  #560  
Old 06-21-2017, 12:25 PM
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Okami's environmental puzzles all tend to lean a little bit on the simple side. That is, the indication of a puzzle to solve is usually marked by a thing that looks very obviously like it's supposed to interact with a specific brush technique. For example: basically every bombable wall crack has the same texure, most lightning-sensitive stuff all looks the same, etc. There's still a lot of stuff to do and some puzzles that are clearly quite tricky, as I never got anywhere close to getting all the stray beads in the game, but in general the game goes out of its way to make sure you know what you need to do at any point, which makes it a bit more like the modern tutorialized Zelda.

On the other hand, it's the 3D Zelda-alike that feels most like an adaptation of Zelda 2. Your upgradeable stats are health, magic (ink pots), and attack power (by indirect means -- switching weapons). Encounters aren't found all throughout the open world but in smaller arenas entered in from cursed scrolls that move throughout the stage and sometimes come after you directly. The biggest difference is that since the overworld and dungeons don't require separate camera modes, there isn't as much of a focus on dungeons.

The combat in the game is interesting, as it's like a simpler prototype for Bayonetta's controls that seems much better suited for a potentially young audience. There's not as much focus on dodging attacks but more focus on using brush techniques to exploit enemy weaknesses (vaguely similar to the Pokemon Ranger series), but in both cases the enemies express successful hits in terms of being disabled for a long time to get some good combo hits in. I actually tried the game specifically after having gone through Bayonetta because I liked that game so much, and while it didn't quite give me what I was thinking I might be getting into, what I got wound up being pretty damn great instead.
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  #561  
Old 06-21-2017, 12:27 PM
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If I had thought of Okami, it would have been #16 on my list. Alas. Wonderful game, and it's weird that the major criticism of it is that it overstays its welcome, but you'll hear it a lot because it's absolutely true.

EO4 is the EO I voted for. I can see criticisms that it's far too easy compared to other entries in the series, but the game is such a joy to play that I don't mind that too much.
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  #562  
Old 06-21-2017, 01:02 PM
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upthread there was a discussion of Rhythm Heaven DS vs any other and button vs stylus. I really enjoyed the DS game enough to beat it despite having poor rhythm (I think I had to get my wife to beat the one with the black and white guy where you have to tap to the on and off beats. I just can't do off beats) To this day, if I say "I suppose", my wife will shout "HEY". I think I played about 5 minutes of the one on Wii. Its the tapping and flicking that makes Rhythm Heaven to me.

Okami was low on my list, but it was on it. Its been a while, but I remember really enjoying it and beating it.

I own EO4 and I've played some of it. I like drawing the map.
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  #563  
Old 06-21-2017, 01:32 PM
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Sigh, Okami ist just another game on my "worst games of all times" list. Though that's specifically for the Wii version. It just couldn't recognize my "drawing" properly, so I never got past the tutorial. Second biggest waste of money ever.

Etrian Odyssey is apparently pretty popular around here. I'm limited to dungeon crawlers that are not handheld exclusive, but I really like the genre. Several dungeon crawlers almost made it into my top 25 (they are all place 26-35).
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  #564  
Old 06-21-2017, 01:58 PM
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i never played sq4 because i was a bit burned out by the time it came out, i didn't have an english 3ds, and i'm petty enough to skip one just because it doesn't have fm versions of the music

two of those things have been fixed, so...i'm really excited for v, mostly

okami i got stuck on some finicky puzzle with an obvious solution that i couldn't figure out the exact thing the game wanted me to draw, and all issun telling me the thing i already knew repeatedly was just...so...annoying...

i'll try it again someday, i'm sure. no rush beyond "i hope my ps3 doesn't die first"
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  #565  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Wonderful game, and it's weird that the major criticism of it is that it overstays its welcome, but you'll hear it a lot because it's absolutely true.
I'm in the yes-and-no side on this one. The story has a very episodic nature to it where each arc has a pretty clear resolution to it. If you played up to the end of the first Orochi battle and then stopped, you'd have a very satisfying narrative arc. Unsurprisingly, each part of the main arc is built around a major boss encounter like Orochi. If the game came out today it might well have been released in parts like Hitman or Life is Strange or stuff like that. But as I've hinted before I'm not much of a story guy and so for me it was more about exploring these well-realized beautiful environments and messing around probably more than it was about the re-imagination of various Japanese myths.

Bigger problem for me is that as the game goes on the open-world aspects of the game get more and more closed off. The route to the last cities is timed; the last dungeons have significant points of no return that prevent you from re-exploring earlier areas and collecting, say, the last few stray beads. (That said, most things that you can lock yourself out of progress toward in the middle of the game are really only relevant for people who are going to get trophies in the PS3 release. Playing on a PS2 those sorts of things only matter if, say, the idea of 100% bestiary completion is its own reward)

(And since I never said specifically, I'll note: on my list. #15.)
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  #566  
Old 06-21-2017, 03:20 PM
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Hey guys, Galadrome just got his thoughts in for EOIV and they're pretty good so I added them in. You should go back and read them!
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  #567  
Old 06-21-2017, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadrome
Nameable, blank slate characters combined with deep party building
Yeah! I'm currently playing XCOM Enemy Within, which is one of the few other games that I think does this really well. EO IV is super good at this though.
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  #568  
Old 06-21-2017, 07:33 PM
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Okami is great. I think that it does run a little long in the tooth and recycles bosses too much, and no offense to our Issun but Okami's Issun can cross the line, but on the whole it's marvelous. It looks amazing (especially in HD OMG Hexadrive I love you), has one of the best soundtracks ever, and is fun to play. Running around as Ammy is a grand time because you feel like a god. Really like it.
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  #569  
Old 06-21-2017, 09:31 PM
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Rather than RPGs, it's almost more interesting to me how many Japanese games are ending up on this list. I think very few people would say the last 17 years have been the best for Japanese games yet here we are ranking a seemingly endless stream of them this highly.

Were we all stained with a love of Japan during our youth as we soothed our outsider souls with imported pocky and Ranma VHS tapes? Or is it the Parish factor, with the community growing around his decidedly Japanese-focused (at least in earlier times) game writing? It's pretty weird!
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  #570  
Old 06-21-2017, 09:42 PM
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Especially when you get up to speed and the greenery sprouts in your wake.
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