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  #181  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:39 PM
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Also I totally bet no one can guess from the context of the post what race my character was. Nope, no chance.
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  #182  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:55 PM
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One other thing: I'm thinking about posting both games at the same time each day. It feels like posting them at opposite ends of the day doesn't really allow the conversation for either to breathe much. What do you guys think?
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  #183  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:00 PM
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I've never played WoW, but after really getting into FFXIV (I rated it #1 on this list) I've been curious to try it out. Although with Stormblood dropping Friday, that probably won't be happening soon.
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  #184  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Issun View Post
One other thing: I'm thinking about posting both games at the same time each day. It feels like posting them at opposite ends of the day doesn't really allow the conversation for either to breathe much. What do you guys think?
Sounds reasonable to me, and it shouldn't hurt much to try.
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  #185  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:12 PM
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Hoo boy, where do I ever start?

World of Warcraft sure has been around a long time, hasn't it? I still remember when my friends started playing. I was in university, and in computer science, so of course my friends played. And they sure made it sound fun! I remember sitting at the Tim Horton's and listening to them swap stories about fantastic sounding things for hours, and not only did they want me to play, but I wanted to as well!

However, I resisted, because I'd heard how addictive MMOs could be, and I considered myself to have an addiction-prone personality (I no longer think that). Those same friends worked on me for quite some time, trying to convince me to give it a try, and then, years later, I married a WoW player. Whoops!

I dived in head first and never looked back. It was one of our favourite things to do together. I started playing during the Burning Crusade, and reached max level just in time to dip my toe into raiding Kara a few times with friends.

This is Dhorvin:



(Yes, he's a dwarf named Dhorvin. I also had Nelefa the Night Elf, and Hugh Mann the... you get it.)

You'll have to forgive the dust; he's seen better days. Dhorvin was my first, and my favourite. He was a Hunter, and I delighted in giving all of his pets stupid funny names (like the small blue dog named Clifford, hand hovering over the Bestial Wrath key, just waiting for someone to point out that he was neither big nor red). I even wrote my own add-on to let my pets do dumb emotes of their own! A lot of WoW players have large stables of Alts, but I always just had a main, and for most of my time playing WoW, that main was Dhorvin. And he was good. I was good. I have never felt as skilled at a video game as I did playing World of Warcraft. I loved topping damage meters, and I loved being at the bottom of the damage taken meters. I loved doing the hard jobs in fights that no one wanted, and excelling at them. I loved progression raiding, and I loved raid leading. I loved pouring over raid logs, and suggesting adjustments based on them. I just loved everything about raiding.

There is just no rush like that of downing a raid boss that seems impossible. You and your friends, throwing yourself against the same challenge over and over, and learning, and developing strategies and tactics to suit your group (I hatehatehate people that raid by following the strat online, or do things a certain way because "that's how you do it" without ever questioning why or looking to improve on it; the internet was the worst thing to ever happen to raiding). Sometimes, when you get that first difficult kill, you jump out of your chair, and holler and pump your fist, as the cheers of your friends echo in your ears. Other times, you just stare dumbfounded, because you were one of the only people left alive and were just in the zone, desperately popping cooldowns on muscle memory and giving it your all and suddenly there's no boss left to attack.

I raided for years, and I made a lot of friends over those years. At the height of things, during Wrath, I was raiding 8 hours a week, and those raids started at 10PM my time. We invited the guild to our wedding!

When the divorce happened, things got... messy. My ex-wife was our main healer, and I was sort of co-guild-leader at the time, but I had to step away from the game for a good long while. My whole life was a bit of shit-show at that time, and WoW was the last thing I needed to worry about. I retired Dhorvin at that point. I left him in an inn in Pandaria, listening to some delightful kazoo music. I like to think that he's still there, enjoying the scenery and the people, drinking the days away, and describing his glory days to other adventurers passing through.

I did go back to the game after that, after my ex-wife had transferred to another server to play with her new beau, and main tanked for a couple of years on my Blood DK. That was a different kind of rush, and I possibly enjoyed that even more, and I was also very good at it. There were times that I felt unkillable. I used to be able to solo down raid bosses a final 5%, and solo heroic dungeons and the like. We'd have alternative boss strategies designed to exploit how unkillable I was and do the fight in unintended ways.

The game had lost its magic at that point, though, and I just wasn't having fun anymore. The garrisons in Warlords of Draenor held my interest for a while, but then it passed, and I was back to logging in just for our raids every week out of a sense of obligation, and never otherwise. I quit the game last year, and I don't miss it. I do, however, miss the people, which is why I stuck with it so long. I gather that the guild, which I'd played with for the better part of decade, fell apart and dissolved in my wake, and some of friends also finally left the game at that point, and I still fell bad about it.

All of that is sort of tangential to the game itself, though! WoW was all of that for me, but many people tend to have "their MMO" that they could say similar things about. However, for an overwhelming number of people, that game was WoW, because it got in there first (yes, there were MMOs that preceded it, but none enjoyed near its success), and did it best. Ever since, it has continued to change and evolve, borrowing ideas liberally from other games that have come and gone in its wake over the years.

So, I hesitated to vote for World of Warcraft, because it's no where near one of the best games that I've played this century. In fact, I'm not ever sure that I like it. I don't even think that I like MMOs as a rule! However, it has given me a lot of great memories, and has been of great personal significance in my life, so there was no way that I couldn't include it, in my very last slot at #25.
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  #186  
Old 06-12-2017, 01:53 AM
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I never played WoW, but I'm surprised I'm not the only one here who didn't. However, I'm also surprised it's on this list. I mean I get it, it's popular and many people got addicted to it, but is it really any good?

My favorite MMORPG of all time is Ragnarok Online. I found that it managed to get everything right. No quest markers, nothing. You had to go and write your own story. Mysterious and very hidden lore. Monsters spawn had completely random locations, which meant you actually had to move around the world to find more monsters, you couldn't just stay in one region before it eventually was devoid of monsters. Up to this point, no other MMORPG ever managed to implement such a system again. It was also very hard, so one little screen up by one party member already meant party wipe.

WoW basically removed everything I liked in RO. I played over a hundred MMORPGs by now, but never even felt like giving WoW a try.

Edit: In hindsight, I should have put RO on my list, but I didn't even consider MMORPGs.
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  #187  
Old 06-12-2017, 07:06 AM
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I generally don't think people get addicted to games that aren't fun to play.

The Last of Us and Skyrim were both high on my list, for different reasons. I spent over a hundred hours in the latter, completing every quest I could and wandering around for ages. I've played through tLoU once and probably took less than twenty hours, but it was one of the most intense and moving experiences I've had with a game.

Silent Hill 2 is also great. Incredible mood, atmosphere, and music. Good, dark story.
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  #188  
Old 06-12-2017, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
I generally don't think people get addicted to games that aren't fun to play.

Boy, I wish I could have all those hours of Cookie Clicker and Simpsons Tapped Out back
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  #189  
Old 06-12-2017, 08:14 AM
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Rez:

"Oh shit! I need to play Rez!"
- Me, since 2002 (still me in 2017)

Skyrim:

This is the first game on the list that was on my list, at No. 15. I originally had it higher. It bounced around to a few different slots - and I accidentally had it in there twice when I first submitted the list.

Skyrim was one of the first western RPGs that I really sunk my teeth into, and the first Bethesda game I ever played. I wasn't used to having that sort of freedom in a game. And I loved it. Just wandering through the icy mountains, and you come upon a ruin - you can go inside, and who knows what you'll find. I love that sort of thing. I was enraptured by this game.

My best friend calls it a "hiking simulator," and I think that's the best way to experience it. Don't worry about the main quest. Just go look for stuff. See where the road takes you. That's probably why it was so enjoyable to me.

Also one time I cast an ice spell at a bear and it started orbiting the spot where it was standing, spiraling wider and wider until it was in the sky. It died when it hit the ground a few seconds later.

World of Warcraft:


I know I would enjoy this game, which is why I've never played it.
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  #190  
Old 06-12-2017, 08:34 AM
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Skyrim is far from perfect, but it's one of the rare games where its sheer massiveness makes up for the weakness of the combat and storytelling. There's such an incredible quantity of content that you can pick and choose what you do, sticking to the stuff you like the most, and still get 40-50 hours out of it easily. I discovered that I loved crafting items and potions, so I spent most of my time doing that. Once I crafted a set of armor that made destruction magic free, I used it to blaze a path to the end of the game (literally!). So the voice acting was kind of bad and I didn't care about any of the characters, but I still managed to get a full RPGs worth of game out of just the bits that I liked.

Some day I'm going to go back and try for a pacifist crafting run, where I don't kill anything until I have my unlimited-magic armor. Not sure how hard it would be to accomplish, or if it would just be really boring.

I've always been too scared to play MMOs because of the time commitment required, so I've never touched World of Warcraft. Now that I have a job and a kid, that's unlikely to change any time soon.
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  #191  
Old 06-12-2017, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
Boy, I wish I could have all those hours of Cookie Clicker and Simpsons Tapped Out back
Cookie Clicker very nearly made my list. One of the last cuts.
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  #192  
Old 06-12-2017, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
I generally don't think people get addicted to games that aren't fun to play.
Interesting. When I think about whether MMORPGs are good are bad, my thoughts usually end up with me thinking that all MMORPGs are bad and the reason why people enjoy playing them are actually the other players.

At least for me I don't get addicted to any MMORPG until I actually start playing together with others. That's also where I get the fun from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBear
Cookie Clicker very nearly made my list. One of the last cuts.
You consider it to be better than A Dark Room?
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  #193  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:06 AM
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Something to remember with these lists Rya is that the question is not "what is the best <whatever>?". It's "what are the top <whatevers>?". That means different things to different people. Maybe it's the best. Maybe it's the most important. Maybe it's what you enjoyed most or spent the most time with or just remembered better. Some people spend forever getting it just right, some people throw a few things together in a couple minutes. It doesn't really matter. The list is what we picked, the criteria are vague, and our choices are subjective.

The results of course are the objective truth.
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  #194  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBear View Post
Cookie Clicker very nearly made my list. One of the last cuts.
It did get a vote, actually! Thanks, BTW, for that post, JBear. Talking about personal stuff like that is never easy, but it was a really interesting story.

Okay, so we're trying something different for the next couple of days, everybody! I'm posting both entries at the same time. Let me know which way you guys prefer.

Last edited by Issun; 06-12-2017 at 09:49 AM.
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  #195  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:33 AM
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#44


Cheers, love! The cavalry's here!

Developer: Blizzard Entertainment
Publisher: Blizzard Entertainment
Platforms: Playstaion 4, XBox One, Windows
Release: May 24, 2016

138 Points, 5 Votes, Highest Rank: #4 (Alpha Werewolf)




Two Blizzard games in a row! This one is their newest IP, and their most instantly successful since WoW launched 13 years ago. It's really stood out against the military shooters that dominate the FPS genre. It basically takes the relatively venerable Team Fortress 2 and adds flash and pizzaz, and it shows. Overwatch is undoubtedly the most gorgeous FPS in history, and it's not short on witty banter between the team mates, either. It's even had it's own controversy (buttroversy?), and that's when you know you're important.

I'm not going to get too into the gameplay structure for reasons you'll see eventually, but suffice it to say that Blizzard's experience with balancing an Offense/Defense/Tank/Support team structure probably factored in to the games excellent balancing.

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  #196  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:34 AM
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#43


Hail, noble explorers!

Developer: Atlus
Publisher: Atlus
Platforms: Nintendo DS
Release: January 18, 2007 (JP), May 15, 2007 (NA), June 6, 2008 (EU), August 14, 2008 (AU)

138 Points, 6 Votes, Highest Rank: #5 (Yimothy)




Etrian Odyssey the First was a much needed shot in the arm for the JRPG genre. The landscape was dotted with anime stories and unimaginative gameplay for miles. And while the EO series is anime as hell, the gameplay was comparatively fresh. Taking the best aspects of roguelikes and dungeon crawls and making them accessible was the name of the game. Well, the actual name of the game was Etrian Odyssey, but you get the picture.

Different people prefer different EOs, as I saw when perusing your lists. That's good, because it means each game offers something different while sticking to the same core each time. That core being seeing just how much farther you can make it this time, managing your resources and hoping what's around the next corner won't snuff out an hour of progress. It's just as much a rush as any FPS kill. The dungeons of Etria beckon, with secrets just out of...

Oops, you weren't prepared for that FOE, were you? Better luck next time, chumpy.

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  #197  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:37 AM
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I gotta get me some of that Etrian meat. Some day.

I ain't never played an Overwatch but it sure is pretty.
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  #198  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
I generally don't think people get addicted to games that aren't fun to play.
Ahehe, let me tell you about my time with FF: Airborne Brigade on mobile.

...no, on second thought let's not, we'll just leave it at the fact that skinner boxes can be evil, and having community attached can either make it better (by making the grinding time genuinely more enjoyable and meaningful) or worse (by making you stick with a flat-out dull game out of a sense of obligation to fellow-travelers in addition to the other addictive qualities).

On that note, I've also never played MMOs for time-related reasons, though I've been sorely tempted by FFXIV.
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  #199  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:44 AM
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How do I feel about World Of Warcraft?

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TEN YEARS OF WARCRAFT.



I enjoy it.
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  #200  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:46 AM
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Oh hey, two more games while I was writing my last post.

Overwatch: All the fanart for this game is great! Blizzard hit it out of the park with character designs that are fun for people to play with. Similar to MMOs, though, I just haven't played any online-community-oriented games since leaving school, as I can't be arsed to coordinate my play time with other people. Also I have a hard time with first-person these days. I'm sure back in school I would have loved it, though. My actual game back then was Marathon II, because I'm old.

Etrian: Another series that looks great that I've never played. I was wary of the first few due to reports of their difficulty (not so much up for a lot of lost-progress do-over gameplay these days) though I understand that some entries are more forgiving than others by this point.
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  #201  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JBear View Post
Cookie Clicker very nearly made my list. One of the last cuts.
It was on mine. It distilled the allure of impulse gaming into an essence so pure that I'd wash my cats in it. Dark Web sellers HATE Orteil for all the addicts he's steered away from them.
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  #202  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:52 AM
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Suprised EO 1 made the list and not one of the sequels. Maybe one will show up higher on the list, that'd be a trick.
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  #203  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:55 AM
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I've gotten pretty into first person dungeon crawling in the last few years, and I think Etrian was where it started. Maybe 3 is better, with the ships and the lateral movement and the increased map making options, but the first game was first. Drawing the map on the bottom screen honestly isn't as good as doing it yourself on graph paper, but I'll never do the latter when the former is an option because it's still pretty great. It's the best use of the DS's two screens I can think of. The game looks great, has deep party building and interesting maps, you open up shortcuts so you're not covering the same ground all the time, and the anime aesthetic is there but doesn't get in the way. The encounter gauge doesn't make any difference to how many fights you get (aside from letting you know if you're likely to get in a fight trying to sneak past an FOE), but it makes the random enounters feel better somehow.

The best experience in Etrian is exhausting your resources in the dungeon, going to use a warp wire and realising you forgot to buy one, and then making it out of the dungeon alive. That and finding a passage that lets you fill in a conspicuously empty area of the map on an earlier floor.
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  #204  
Old 06-12-2017, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Issun View Post
Okay, so we're trying something different for the next couple of days, everybody! I'm posting both entries at the same time. Let me know which way you guys prefer.
Honestly, I'm probably in the minority here, but I prefer one a day. I know that I was the first person to do that, and I only did it because getting all of those photos ready in half the time would have literally killed me, but I really think a day is the proper amount of time to give conversation to breathe. Plus a lot of people who've tried to keep a faster pace in the past have hit delays that strung things out anyway. Not only that, but if I was to do it again, I'd probably skip weekends, since those entries got noticeably less discussion. There are a bunch of people around here who only check the forum once per weekday or less, so the conversation has often already moved on before they've even seen it at the pace of two/day.

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I've gotten pretty into first person dungeon crawling in the last few years, and I think Etrian was where it started. Maybe 3 is better, with the ships and the lateral movement and the increased map making options, but the first game was first. Drawing the map on the bottom screen honestly isn't as good as doing it yourself on graph paper, but I'll never do the latter when the former is an option because it's still pretty great. It's the best use of the DS's two screens I can think of. The game looks great, has deep party building and interesting maps, you open up shortcuts so you're not covering the same ground all the time, and the anime aesthetic is there but doesn't get in the way. The encounter gauge doesn't make any difference to how many fights you get (aside from letting you know if you're likely to get in a fight trying to sneak past an FOE), but it makes the random enounters feel better somehow.

The best experience in Etrian is exhausting your resources in the dungeon, going to use a warp wire and realising you forgot to buy one, and then making it out of the dungeon alive. That and finding a passage that lets you fill in a conspicuously empty area of the map on an earlier floor.
Yeah, well said. All of this. I loved Phantasy Star back in the day, but EO helped me to rediscover first-person dungeon crawlers as an adult, and they're now one of my favourite genres. That being said, I'm pretty okay with never having to touch pencil to graph paper again; in-game mapping is aces.
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  #205  
Old 06-12-2017, 10:16 AM
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Overwatch is probably my most-played game of the last year. Tons of fun with depth for days and wonderful art direction, it really is the Team Fortress 2 sequel we've all been waiting for. I love the variety of characters available and how some of them don't even play like shooter characters (Reinhardt is one of my most-played and he doesn't even have a gun). The loot boxes are too stingy, but aside from that the game is thankfully free of microtransaction BS and the only things you can buy are cosmetic. It's definitely one of my favorite games of the last decade.

Etrian Odyssey is a beautiful, wonderful gem. They took the gameplay of Wizardry and made it tough-yet-fair, then added in a charming art style and fantastic FM-synth music by the master himself, Yuzo Koshiro. Later games smoothed out the gameplay, but also upped the skeeviness of the character designs, and only the first game in the series has a story that's worth a damn. I might give EO III the nod for the being the best game in the series, but the original has my heart - and my vote. I wrote fan fiction for this game (and won a free copy of the EO II soundtrack for my trouble).
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  #206  
Old 06-12-2017, 10:16 AM
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I've picked up either EO4 or EO1 Untold. I tried the Untold demo. It's very clearly up my alley but I don't have as much time for RPGs any more, at least not as much as I'd like.
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  #207  
Old 06-12-2017, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBear View Post
Honestly, I'm probably in the minority here, but I prefer one a day. I know that I was the first person to do that, and I only did it because getting all of those photos ready in half the time would have literally killed me, but I really think a day is the proper amount of time to give conversation to breathe.
Two months is a long time to watch a countdown play out.
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  #208  
Old 06-12-2017, 10:34 AM
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I never played WoW, but I'm surprised I'm not the only one here who didn't. However, I'm also surprised it's on this list. I mean I get it, it's popular and many people got addicted to it, but is it really any good?
Yes. As a contemporary of Final Fantasy XI and EverQuest II WoW was amazing. Instanced dungeons alone were worth the price of admission. There is also really no question that it's the most historically important MMO of all time.

As a modern game I'm not as sure since I quit playing back near the end of Wrath. It certainly had its issues, but Blizzard is pretty devoted to quality and while anyone may complain about X class or Y expansion or Z raid on a whole given the huge amount of content and support it's had over the years there's a pretty solid baseline game, if you're into that sort of game.
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  #209  
Old 06-12-2017, 10:38 AM
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Two months is a long time to watch a countdown play out.
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  #210  
Old 06-12-2017, 10:39 AM
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Yes, WOW is a very good game. I got part way through the first expansion and did a fair number of dungeons, but no raids or real high level content. I'm glad I played it and I'm glad I stopped playing it. Good memories, but I'm not interested in revisiting it or devoting that much time to a game again.

I hope another Etrian shows up later on, but I'm glad that the series is represented here either way. I played II, III, IV, and the remake of I. It has some rough spots, but man do I ever love slowly building up my team over time.
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50 games > hotline miami , all games are good , all phones are bad , bae > talking time , democracy was a mistake , falselogic likes to watch , full life consequences , list all the gaems , madhair60 fps , multiple persona disorder , top 50 countdown

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