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  #8731  
Old 12-06-2016, 08:57 PM
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Anyway, today I saw "Yesterday's Enterprise" for the first time. Hell of an episode.
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  #8732  
Old 12-06-2016, 09:04 PM
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Woah, first time?

Yeah, Yesterday's Enterprise is the point where most people could look around and say to each other, "Yeah, this show is special, isn't it?" I remember during the viewer's choice marathon that aired running up to the final episode of TNG, Yesterday's Enterprise was voted like the #1 or 2 episode, and I was like "Not my personal choice, but I totally respect that."
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  #8733  
Old 12-07-2016, 12:25 PM
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You know how, nominally, Star Trek is a tremendously optimistic show where the day is often saved by cooperating with enemies or coming to a mutual understanding about things and the future is a place where everyone is at peace, save the occasional Cold War metaphor or space monster? Well, the writers of The Time Trap sure don't.

Anyway, the Enterprise is checking out some flashing stars when they come across a Klingon ship that immediately shoots at them (because what else is a Klingon going to do? Not shoot Kirk?) and then both ships disappear. Turns out that the Bermuda Triangle extends straight up into deep-space and now they're stuck in that (holy crap, I love this cartoon). Or else the exploding stars emit Bermuda Triangle radiation, or something. Anyway, heard stuck outside the universe along with all the spaceships that did that exact same thing.

And the Spacemuda Triangle is ruled by the captains of all those ships, as Kirk and the Klingon captain are told, after being teleported up there. The ruling council is made up of a whole whack of different aliens, many of whom are just straight-up jerks to one another normally but the dilemma of being stuck for eternity outside the universe caused them to bond together all the stronger, wanting for nothing as all are granted eternal life and full autonomy. A perfect union beyond anything the Federation could offer.

So, of course, they all hate it, and Kirk and the Klingon vow to escape so they can get right back to trying to kill one another, despite the feeble protests from the other captains who say that, yes, living in harmony with your deadliest enemies is a fate worse than death, but the Triangle is impossible to escape, so just make due. But of course they do not.

Both try just flying back out (which makes the other captains roll their eyes and say "yeah, like we didn't try that before") and it almost works each time. So Kirk gets the idea that if both ships ALMOST escape apart, if they mashed the Enterprise and the Clotho together, it would be a doubley good space-ship and they would be able to escape easy. And I'm reasonably sure that's spaceships work like the Megazord, so it's worth a try.

And it works! But the sneaky Klingons couldn't let a chance to kill a whole bunch of people slip by so they also put a bomb on the Enterprise, but a warning from one of the telepathic captains warns Spock in time and he chucks the stupid thing out the space-window before it explodes, and the Enterprise and Klingons are now safe from the great torment of being friends.

Can you even imagine what it would be like if the Federation and Klingons wound up being friends? If one even manages to serve on the Enterprise? Itd be lunacy
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  #8734  
Old 12-07-2016, 03:37 PM
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That same scenario gets reused a couple times IIRC. Once in Voyager, and once in Enterprise. Except things are kinda reversed, where the space-bubble is actually hell, and its the Enterprise that bands everyone together to solve the problem because friendship and teamwork triumphs all. Which is tonally much more consistent with Star Trek, but golly if the TAS episode you describe isn't profoundly more interesting.
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  #8735  
Old 12-07-2016, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
Trouble in Tiny-Towne (or The Teratin Incident, if you insist) is the obligatory Shrinky episode.
...
Bones finds the cure for Small (teleporting fixes it right up) so Kirk heads down to the planet
This is the only episode of TAS I have any memory of. I distinctly remember them shriking a tricorder down to itty-bitty size and giving it to Kirk before transporting him but the tricorder did not go back to full size with Kirk so he is using a tic tac sized tricorder to communicate with the Enterprise.

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And I'm reasonably sure that's spaceships work like the Megazord, so it's worth a try.
Power Rangers in Space and Power Rangers : Lost Galaxy says they do. (Or maybe that was the other way around...)
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  #8736  
Old 12-07-2016, 09:18 PM
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One of the things that stands out from Yesterday's Enterprise in my mind is how Patrick Stewart delivers the line "Let's make sure history never forgets the name Enterprise." Which is, if anything, too cool a line. It could have been cheesy if delivered in an over-the-top way. But Stewart makes it sound like something Picard just said off-the-cuff and then pauses for a moment like he's suddenly self-conscious, maybe thinking, "yeah, I guess that'll do." And instead of just being a cool line it's also a window into Picard's personality.
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  #8737  
Old 12-07-2016, 10:36 PM
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Huh. I read a little more about the episode, and apparently they cut some stuff from that final battle due to budget. In addition to Riker getting lacerated to death by shrapnel, Data would be electrocuted and Wesley decapitated.
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  #8738  
Old 12-07-2016, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanagi View Post
One of the things that stands out from Yesterday's Enterprise in my mind is how Patrick Stewart delivers the line "Let's make sure history never forgets the name Enterprise." Which is, if anything, too cool a line. It could have been cheesy if delivered in an over-the-top way.
This is my beef with like every big momentous line they give Claudia Christian on Babylon 5. She burns it over the plate when it needs to be a Jamie Moyer changeup.

But yeah, trust the guy from the Royal Shakespeare to do up a soliloquy all right.
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  #8739  
Old 12-08-2016, 10:11 AM
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Huh. I read a little more about the episode, and apparently they cut some stuff from that final battle due to budget. In addition to Riker getting lacerated to death by shrapnel, Data would be electrocuted and Wesley decapitated.
Honestly, that probably would've pushed it too far in the wrong direction. Plus I suspect the fandom at the time would've been cheering too much at Wesley's death to pick up on the end of the episode.
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  #8740  
Old 12-08-2016, 10:30 AM
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Imagine the memes we could still be making and enjoying to this day if we had an official Wesley onscreen decapitation.
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  #8741  
Old 12-08-2016, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
Imagine the memes we could still be making and enjoying to this day if we had an official Wesley onscreen decapitation.
I'm envisioning it like the David Warner decap in The Omen
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  #8742  
Old 12-12-2016, 05:55 AM
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The Menace of the Mermen (or The Ambergris Element,if you're inclined to believe the episode title-card) is pretty similar to that one episode of Futurama. No, the other one that's like Star Trek. No, not that one either. God it's like you're not even trying.

It begins with the Enterprise checking out a water-planet to figure out why-come it's so wet, and so they pop down in a Scuba-Enterprise (yessss) and immediately get attacked by a giant shrimp. Which they identify as a whale. And which is later referred to as a snake. I don't think the animators had much of a reference point for marine life. Anyway, they're attacked and go missing, and a rescue team finds them washed up on another shore a couple of days later with amnesia. Also, they are now mermaids.

I mean, it's TAS, so they obviously didn't have the budget to make new models for Kirk and Spock, so there's no tails or anything, were just told they breathe water and their hands look a bit like flippers, but still, Merkirk.

Anyway, Kirk and Spock realize they'd be sucky spaceshippers if they were stuck in a salt water tank and Bones doesn't have anything in his medical books about the cure for Mermaidism, so they track down the mermaid aliens who live on the planes since they're the ones who mermed up Kirk. They don't want to help because they're jerks, but they're also under a ticking clock because the planets about to have an bad earthquake. Sea quake. Whatever.

Kirk breaks into the Forbidden Temple in Merville and finds an old scroll with the cure for Mermaidism (it's Ambergris, the gunk that whales burp up, that causes and cures Mermaids) and heads back to the ship to prevent the earthquake just in time.

Turns out you can prevent earthquakes by shooting them, btw. Important safety tip.
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  #8743  
Old 12-12-2016, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Raider Dr. Jones View Post
This is my beef with like every big momentous line they give Claudia Christian on Babylon 5. She burns it over the plate when it needs to be a Jamie Moyer changeup.

But yeah, trust the guy from the Royal Shakespeare to do up a soliloquy all right.
I give Claudia Christian's performance a pass by just accepting at face value what it would mean for the character: Susan Ivanova is not an action hero or an epic figure. She's a big nerd who is very good at and committed to her job, and also because she's a big nerd she wishes she were and sometimes pretends to be an action hero. (Her performance reminds me of a lot of extremely capable but socially awkward women friends of mine who did theater tech.)

That was almost definitely not be the intent for the character, but that's what it looks like in the end, and in the end her mundane nerdy competency worked for me. I found it endearing.

Uhhh, anyway, Star Trek: Patrick Stewart could save a lot of premises that otherwise could have been a disaster. Trying imagining how embarrassingly bad the emotional climax of Sarek would be with pretty much anyone but Stewart.
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  #8744  
Old 12-12-2016, 06:01 PM
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Aaaaand Deep Space Nine is done. I really enjoyed (most of) the last episodes, and I feel it ends pretty strongly. Not 'All Good Things' strong, but still pretty strong!

I get the feeling the writers were never sure what to do with Ezri, and that's understandable. She never really gets enough time to grow as a character, even with all the episodes she does get in the last season it's just not enough. If she had at least two seasons to be fleshed out it would be one thing, but coming in right at the very end? The writers did their best I guess but she never did quite fit in.

The war with the Dominion comes to a satisfying conclusion, and those final space battles approaching Cardassia were downright exciting. That Kira goes to Cardassia to help Damar with forming an effective resistance movement is a delicious turn of fate and there was probably no better way for the whole Bajor/Cardassia conflict to end.

But the real surprise at the end of DS9 was Damar himself. He started as nothing but one of Dukat's lackeys, is made infamous for killing Ziyal, and while he takes over as head of the Cardassian government he was lost in his depression and drowned in alcohol. But then he finds his spine and starts fighting back against the Dominion and then he becomes a far more interesting character. We see more development out of Damar in DS9's final episodes than we do most of its other side characters. He takes on the role of resistance leader seriously and makes some hard decisions to do what needs to be done. He never gets to see Cardassia be freed, but it wouldn't have happened without him.

But while end of the Dominion War was some great television, the OTHER plot point hanging over the finale was... not so much. I really feel like they should have wrapped up the whole Dukat/Pah-wraiths thing before the dominion war ended, rather than juggling them both. This might have meant taking Sisko out of the picture before the final battle, but they could have just... not done it that way. It was just really unsatisfying to go from this big triumphant victory party to Sisko suddenly leaving, saying "I have to go, my planet Bajor needs me", and having a final confrontation with Dukat where he just... charges at him sending them both into a fiery pit. It really sours the whole ending, and the cuts back to Dukat and Winn having their satanic orgy from the much more exiting dominion space battles ruined the flow of the last episodes.

The flashbacks to the series as some of the characters were packing up to move and the others were facing their new changing station were mostly pretty sweet and I may have gotten a bit teary eyed. But one glaring omission stood out like a store thumb, not ONE of the characters reminisced about Jadzia. Not one. Not even Worf. It's just... come on guys. Really? I get that there might have been some contract shenanigans there, maybe they couldn't have used her footage without sending her a payment for it and that just made corporate go "...Naaaaah", but still. Honestly. If they couldn't use her footage then maybe they shouldn't have bothered with the brief clip show, it just didn't seem right that she wasn't there. It especially didn't seem right when it implied that all Worf could think about as he was leaving the station was all those good times he had with Ezri.

The last scene between Quark and Odo was the best, even though every scene between those two is the best, that goodbye was just the best. Those two are easily the best characters on the show and there can never be enough material of them sniping at each other, I'm really going to miss it.

Overall DS9 held up pretty dang good. I like it even better than I did before I started this rewatch. Makes me sad that it will probably never get a HD remaster like TNG did, it's a real shame. It really is stronger than it gets credit for, with a really phenomenal cast.

I'ma take a break from the Star Tracks until the new year, after that I'll start on... (deep breath) ...Voyager.

Hoo boy.
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  #8745  
Old 12-12-2016, 11:58 PM
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I'ma take a break from the Star Tracks until the new year, after that I'll start on... (deep breath) ...Voyager.

Hoo boy.
I did a full watch of Voyager last year and while I won't lie that it's quite dire at times and by a good measure the worst Trek, I was pleasantly surprised how much good was in it, especially during the middle seasons.
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  #8746  
Old 12-13-2016, 06:00 AM
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The flashbacks to the series as some of the characters were packing up to move and the others were facing their new changing station were mostly pretty sweet and I may have gotten a bit teary eyed. But one glaring omission stood out like a store thumb, not ONE of the characters reminisced about Jadzia. Not one. Not even Worf. It's just... come on guys. Really? I get that there might have been some contract shenanigans there, maybe they couldn't have used her footage without sending her a payment for it and that just made corporate go "...Naaaaah", but still. Honestly. If they couldn't use her footage then maybe they shouldn't have bothered with the brief clip show, it just didn't seem right that she wasn't there. It especially didn't seem right when it implied that all Worf could think about as he was leaving the station was all those good times he had with Ezri.
To quote one of the executive producers (so this doesn't have Terry Farrel's take),

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ira Stephen Behr
"We had planned to see Terry Farrell in the flashbacks but she refused to let us use any of her clips. The way I see it is this: Her manager was informed that we were thinking of using Terry in a scene in the final episode. It would have probably been three hours of work... maybe four. The price they quoted us was too high for the budget. After all, this was a show where we had to cut out hundreds of thousands of dollars from the original draft. Her manager was informed that we weren't going to be able to use Terry. And on top of it, the scene we had been thinking of for her was really not that germane to the plot. I think Terry's feelings were hurt. When it came to the issue of the clips, they again felt that they would prefer that we went a different way without using the character of Jadzia Dax. So we did. I wasn't happy about it. I'm still not happy about it. But it is a reminder that even Star Trek is just part of the great showbiz sludge."
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  #8747  
Old 12-13-2016, 06:06 AM
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I'm envisioning it like the David Warner decap in The Omen

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  #8748  
Old 12-13-2016, 06:09 AM
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I did a full watch of Voyager last year and while I won't lie that it's quite dire at times and by a good measure the worst Trek, I was pleasantly surprised how much good was in it, especially during the middle seasons.
I like the following seasons quite a lot: 1, 4
Pretty decent seasons: 2,5

The rest are quite bad, with some good eps here and there.

Side mission: count each time they say "phase variance"
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  #8749  
Old 12-13-2016, 06:11 AM
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I'm quite looking forward to getting around to watch Voyager when I get around to it in 2018 or so. Sounds like my kind of people.
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  #8750  
Old 12-13-2016, 08:49 AM
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I'm quite looking forward to getting around to watch Voyager when I get around to it in 2018 or so. Sounds like my kind of people.
You're going to love Threshold (often cited as the show's worst episode).
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  #8751  
Old 12-13-2016, 09:08 AM
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Things I Know About Voyager;
There is an episode about lizards called Threshold
They wanted a Borg with sex appeal
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  #8752  
Old 12-13-2016, 09:23 AM
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Seven as originally introduced was probably one of the better characters in the series, as she served as a nice counterpoint to Tuvok; logic grounded in dispassion, rather than logic grounded in passion. Of course, like all things with Voyager...
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  #8753  
Old 12-13-2016, 09:36 AM
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Also, one of the main characters is a redgoldshirt that dies repeatedly throughout the series.

Poor dumb Harry
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  #8754  
Old 12-13-2016, 10:03 AM
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You're going to love Threshold (often cited as the show's worst episode).
I quite like Threshold to be honest. It's really weird, has body horror... but does the typical Voyager thing where they never really live up to the promise of the premise.
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  #8755  
Old 12-13-2016, 01:35 PM
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I quite like Threshold to be honest. It's really weird, has body horror... but does the typical Voyager thing where they never really live up to the promise of the premise.
And also does the Voyager thing with a Deus Ex Machina technobabble resolution in the last 5 minutes.
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  #8756  
Old 12-13-2016, 01:37 PM
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And also does the Voyager thing with a Deus Ex Machina technobabble resolution in the last 5 minutes.
Voyager broke SO MANY rules laid out in that 67 story bible I posted last week.
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  #8757  
Old 12-13-2016, 01:51 PM
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If you believe that transformation into alien sex lizards wasn't the intended consequence of warp travel all along in Gene Roddenberry's original vision of humanity's exploration of the stars, then you just haven't been paying attention
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  #8758  
Old 12-13-2016, 01:54 PM
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If you believe that transformation into alien sex lizards wasn't the intended consequence of warp travel all along in Gene Roddenberry's original vision of humanity's exploration of the stars, then you just haven't been paying attention
"Wagon train to the lizard orgy"
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  #8759  
Old 12-13-2016, 01:54 PM
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Didn't really need to be spoken, really. Learned that in high school.
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  #8760  
Old 12-13-2016, 02:17 PM
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And also does the Voyager thing with a Deus Ex Machina technobabble resolution in the last 5 minutes.
Phase variance
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