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Falselogic 05-28-2009 11:24 AM

Tabletop Wargamery
 
I can't be the only person on the forums who plays with tiny metal soldiers... I was going to title the thread simply Warhammer 40k, but then thought better of it. I'm sure there are plenty of great games out there that I'm unaware of...

So let this thread be about all the tabletop wargaming that you guys participate in and enjoy. If you want we can even get into tacticshammering though that can be contentious... Anyway, I currently play 40k, BFG, and am building a Hordes force...

I've not had the time to sit down and get to know 40k 5th edition as much as I'd like... never became familiar with 4th and still find myself thinking in terms of 3rd... This is not good for my game... Especially since my army lists are still essentially 3rd edition lists. If there are players out therew what are your thoughts on 5th? If you're a Privateer Press player are you looking forward to their move to codexes? I'm torn on it as only having to buy one book was nice...

Anyway, make the thread your own. I'm also excited about the rumors of a new Space Hulk as I see it as a great way to get people into the hobby, which is the biggest problem I have, finding people to play with.

Dadgum Roi 05-28-2009 11:32 AM

I play tabletop wargames, but of the cardboard chit variety, not minis.

Falselogic 05-28-2009 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant (Post 480649)
I play tabletop wargames, but of the cardboard chit variety, not minis.

Oh? Please explain! I'm unfamiliar with that, though I believe for a while there was a ship game like that, and I believe there is a star wars one too?

Sarcasmorator 05-28-2009 11:43 AM

I don't have the time or patience for creating armies and terrain out of unpainted kits, but I've been having fun with a modest HeroScape collection. Really nice pre-painted minis, easily buildable battledfields and a solid rule set. There are a ton of expansions that are lately going into reprints, so I've been trying to decide how much I'm willing to spend on it.

I think Grant is talkin' 'bout games like this.

Dadgum Roi 05-28-2009 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarcasmorator (Post 480663)
I think Grant is talkin' 'bout games like this.

Yep, although I'm not into ASL- that's basically a lifestyle game.

Sarcasmorator 05-28-2009 11:46 AM

Well, I figured that one would get the point across.

Falselogic 05-28-2009 11:50 AM

ASL looks like some advanced wargamery! really abstract as well. Funny, I think I enjoy the hobby aspect of the game (building, painting, etc) just as much or a little more than playing...

I'm not much into historical either...

Alixsar 05-28-2009 11:53 AM

I just wrote a really long post detailing the history of why I think tabletop games are silly. But there's no point. I can sum it all up in one sentence:

Tabletop games are for nerds.

Seriously. I've met some truly terrifying people via tabletop games. This is not a road anyone should want to travel. Ever.

Dadgum Roi 05-28-2009 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falselogic (Post 480671)
ASL looks like some advanced wargamery! really abstract as well.

ASL is the polar opposite of abstract. The rulebook comes in a three ring binder and has special cases for everything.

Falselogic 05-28-2009 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alixsar (Post 480676)
I just wrote a really long post detailing the history of why I think tabletop games are silly. But there's no point. I can sum it all up in one sentence:

Tabletop games are for nerds.

Seriously. I've met some truly terrifying people via tabletop games. This is not a road anyone should want to travel. Ever.

That just isnt't true! if you enjoy RTS or TBS you can and most likely will enjoy Tabletop wargaming. You meet weirdos in every field. that doesn't mean everyone who plays is a socially stunted, mouth breathing ,400 pd ass-hat, though those people exist. They exist everywhere though in every field - look at Rush Limbaugh...

Falselogic 05-28-2009 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant (Post 480677)
ASL is the polar opposite of abstract. The rulebook comes in a three ring binder and has special cases for everything.

visually abstract, I meant. I think I prefer less rules memorizing books full of small details and rules-lawyering doesn't sound fun to me.

But Grant what game do you play?

Dadgum Roi 05-28-2009 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falselogic (Post 480686)
visually abstract, I meant. I think I prefer less rules memorizing books full of small details and rules-lawyering doesn't sound fun to me.

But Grant what game do you play?

Right now: 2 de Mayo, Commands and Colors: Ancients, Twilight Struggle. I'm mostly an historical gamer, and we tend to focus on a period or subject rather than specific games. I like most anything Latin American, insurgency stuff, and Renaissance/pike and shot era.

Neuroshima Hex is the best non-historical I've played recently. It's focused on combat, so it might appeal if you're into Warhammer.

Sarcasmorator 05-28-2009 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant (Post 480696)
Neuroshima Hex is the best non-historical I've played recently.

I've been thinking about that one, but wasn't sure what I thought of it after trying the online version.

Traumadore 05-28-2009 12:08 PM

Yeah, warhammer 40k and other miniatures games tend to be abstracted and almost arcade-like compared to the games Grant likes, to put it in videogame terms. I haven't had much experience with them, but I do like them.

For 40k I have 2750 points of Tau, and about 1350 points of Orks. I have a ton of Mechwarrior and D&D miniatures as well. I pretty much love miniatures games. It's taken me about 5 years to collect all the Warhammer 40k stuff, and I've only played maybe 30-40 games in the timespan, so I started right at the end of 3rd edition, played mostly in 4th, then got back into it last winter with 5th edition when the Darkreach box came out.

It's a really nice deal, considering I play orks and my friend has space marines, it's like $300 worth of models normally, for $60, with a soft cover rulebook. You could also probly just get the roolbook off ebay or a bits site for 15 bucks too. Much better than the $50 dollar rulebook, though you miss out on the fun hobby and fiction sections.

Also, Alixsar, why even bother sating anything at all. Yes, wargamers are nerds. They are a hybrid of lonely train-set man, and overenthusiastic RPG kid. It's ok, we have fun.

Dadgum Roi 05-28-2009 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarcasmorator (Post 480704)
I've been thinking about that one, but wasn't sure what I thought of it after trying the online version.

It's a really good late night beer-and-chuckles game. Everyone is getting to do stuff all the time, shit is getting blowed up real good all the time, laughs will be had by all.

Alixsar 05-28-2009 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falselogic (Post 480683)
That just isnt't true! if you enjoy RTS or TBS you can and most likely will enjoy Tabletop wargaming. You meet weirdos in every field. that doesn't mean everyone who plays is a socially stunted, mouth breathing ,400 pd ass-hat, though those people exist. They exist everywhere though in every field - look at Rush Limbaugh...

A skinny guy pulled a knife on me because I asked if I could look at one of his pieces.

Yes, it's true that there are weirdos in all fields. I don't think all tabletop gamers are as sociopathic as this guy was. But the rest I've met have all had other serious faults. I'm sure that there are legitimately decent human beings who play tabletop games out there (I'm sure they're in this very thread, given that TT people are good people), but I have yet to meet one in person. As such, it is my professional opinion that tabletop games should be avoided at all costs.

There are other, more logical reasons why I feel tabletop gaming is silly (again, the cost in time and money is ludicrously high)...but I feel that this reason is more important. There's a lot of weirdo tabletop players out there, and even if you're not one of them, you're bound to run into them if you play a lot. I don't think it's worth it.

sraymonds 05-28-2009 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alixsar (Post 480727)
Weirdness

Don't condemn everyone just on the few that you met. Everyone's shit smells, even yours.

Alixsar 05-28-2009 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sraymonds (Post 480745)
Don't condemn everyone just on the few that you met.

I'm not. What I am saying is that, in my experience, I have met some truly fucking weird individuals thanks to tabletop games. I don't know how indicative of tabletop gamers as a whole my experience is, but I do know that it happened and that I would recommend that everyone stay away. That's all.

Sarcasmorator 05-28-2009 01:18 PM

This is an argument that can only be settled by TABLETOP WARGAMERY

Traumadore 05-28-2009 01:19 PM

Dang, that is an exceptional experience. The shops around here have a few different crowds, but the worst I've ever seen are the occasional bad sport, or a guy with unpainted models, whom I wouldn't bother playing.

I think most players have a small group of 3-4 actual friends they play with, and have a good time. I myself don't really venture out to play strangers, as it's almost always less fun. I can see where you're coming from on that front.

As for the expense, it's really not more expensive than someone who plays video games. For the cost of console alone with no games at all, you could get a healthy force for almost any miniatures game, and you would spend a good deal of time assembling and painting them up to your satisfaction.

See all that time is actually a valued part of the hobby for many people. It's incredibley focusing and relaxing, and it really multiplies the enjoyment you have when you play a game with your models. That's one of the reasons I think everyone should play a painted army, on a table with plenty of great terrain. At that point nobody cares about winning or losing, it's just a joy to see everything on the table. That's ideal.

Falselogic 05-28-2009 01:29 PM

Gamer Psychology
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Traumadore (Post 480765)
SMARTNESS

It really is a blast to play a game on a good table with painted armies. I've even enjoyed losing when playing such games. Playing both video games and tabletop games I think the money & time sink is the same. Just spent different ways.

It might be appropriate to talk about the 3 types of people who play war games: Timmy, Johnny, and Spike. If you know M:tG you already know these three. If not, they are all psychological profiles that attempt to explain "What does a player want when they play?", "What are their reasons for playing?", and "What makes them happy?". They were created by the makers of Magic The Gathering to help them better design the game for all their players, and so the profiles apply to that game best, or at least are explained best in terms of Magic. However, I've found they apply quite well to most games.

"Timmy wants to experience something. Timmy plays because he enjoys the feeling he gets when he plays. What that feeling is will vary from Timmy to Timmy, but what all Timmies have in common is that they enjoy the visceral experience of playing." Give Timmy a good game by having fun!

"Johnny wants to express something. To Johnny, gaming is an opportunity to show the world something about himself, be it how creative he is or
how clever he is or how offbeat he is. As such, Johnny is very focused on the customizability of the game." Give Johnny a good game by asking about his army! Johnny is going to try to do something different than most players, usually it will be their list, but it could be something else. All you have to do is figure out what it is, ask them about it so they know you noticed, and listen.

"Spikes plays to prove something, primarily to prove how good he is. You see, Spike sees the game as a mental challenge by which he can define and demonstrate his abilities. Spike gets his greatest joy from winning because his motivation is using the game to show what he is capable of."

I'm a Timmy/Johnny. I know a lot of Spikes and they usually suck when it comes to wargaming as they're not trying to play a game but rather crush opponents, also their armies usually aren't assembled or painted...

shivam 05-28-2009 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alixsar (Post 480676)
I just wrote a really long post detailing the history of why I think tabletop games are silly. But there's no point. I can sum it all up in one sentence:

Tabletop games are for nerds.

Seriously. I've met some truly terrifying people via tabletop games. This is not a road anyone should want to travel. Ever.

you're not allowed in my house again. I'm dead fucking serious.

sraymonds 05-28-2009 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarcasmorator (Post 480763)
This is an argument that can only be settled by TABLETOP WARGAMERY

Then can we use my Heroclix?

EDIT: OH SNAP

Traumadore 05-28-2009 01:59 PM

I'll play with your heroclix.

Pombar 05-28-2009 02:07 PM

I did fantasy Warhammer back in Primary school. It was fun, but I only really have the money for one cash-sucking hobby these days. My roommate in China was heavily into both fantasy and 40K, had brought about 12 of the 40K books with him, and spent most of his time there trying to play the Warhammer MMO. Nice guy, though when he wasn't punching me in the face. No, wait, not such a nice guy

Falselogic 05-28-2009 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pombar (Post 480796)
Nice guy, though when he wasn't punching me in the face. No, wait, not such a nice guy

Go ahead and feed Alixsar's prejudices

Cyrael 05-28-2009 02:25 PM

I get the urge to play some variant of Warhammer about once every 14 months or so. I'll pick up a rulebook, codex and ~$50 worth of mini's. I love both of their settings quite a lot. There just isn't anyone really enjoyable to play with out here in Utah. So I usually take all that enthusiasm I build up and re-direct it to my D&D group.

Falselogic 05-28-2009 02:27 PM

Finding a decent stable of people to play with has always been a problem for me as well. That coupled with busy schedules makes finding a night to get people toether to play is a hassle...

Cyrael 05-28-2009 02:34 PM

Where we live in Utah most people in our age demographic are in one of the two big universities. Because of that, most of them either move away in the summer or are only around for a year or so.

The wife and I found a great core group for D&D a few years back, and really haven't been able to get anyone long term since!

nunix 05-28-2009 03:06 PM

I'm pretty sure Grant meant to reply "tabletop is dumb" in response to Alixsar. I guess that's what he does now! He must've forgotten this time.

Anyway:

I never got into WAR or Chainmail or anything else. I did buy some Confrontation minis, because they are unfuckingbelievably fantastic sculpts, but never used them for the actual skirmish game. Unfortunately, looking at the website now, I don't think you can get the original unpainted sculpts anymore, which is too bad.

It's BattleTech for me, suckas. Free Worlds League forever! Generally nothing later than 3050 for me, though; as with every product that FASA put out, metaplot ruined BT so bad. =/

If y'all are down for megamek sometime (BT net-battle program) lemme know.


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