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Zaidyer 07-14-2015 09:21 AM

All this talk of Gambit and the 90s cartoon just makes me think he's gonna get his due some day. There aren't many adaptations that end up defining the original in the eyes of a generation, but X-Men was one of them. Much like Adam West and Kevin Conroy find themselves playing Batman until the end of time, and Spider-man has his classic theme song from the 60s.

Speaking of theme songs, I like how the general tone of X-Men theme songs in the films is more or less "Look, much like the 60s Spider-Man cartoon gave us spidey's theme song, we know the 90s cartoon gave us the X-Men song, and we acknowledge that. But there are rights issues, so we're going to make songs that are very similar instead. Here, have the X2 theme again."

Fortunately, the X2 theme is pretty good and I liked hearing it again in Days of Future Past. (Which, it must be said, had me pretty thrilled when Bishop showed up to fight Nimrod-style Sentinels.)

Alex Scott 07-14-2015 09:40 AM

I wish they could somehow go back and do a story that follows Claremont's intended origins for Mr. Sinister and Gambit.

Ample Vigour 07-14-2015 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Scott (Post 1975111)
I wish they could somehow go back and do a story that follows Claremont's intended origins for Mr. Sinister and Gambit.

Can you dig into that a little more?

Sven 07-14-2015 10:05 AM

Volia.

Vaeran 07-14-2015 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estragon (Post 1975122)
So, Mr. Sinister is so ridiculous because he's a child's idea of a super villain.

I recently read through Avengers vs. X-Men and all of its ancillary material. Did You Know That Mr. Sinister...

...Constructed an underground replica of Victorian-era London beneath San Francisco?

...Named this city Sinister London?

...Populated it entirely with clones of himself, who lived and worked under his rule, between constant attempts to overthrow him?

...Declared his civilization of clones a separate species, called homo sinister?

Ridiculous? Or ridiculously awesome?

Sven 07-14-2015 10:27 AM

Quote:

...Constructed an underground replica of Victorian-era London beneath San Francisco?
That's at least two full-sized cities under SF; I think there was another one in Venom back in the 90s.

It's like how there were something like four different versions of Atlantis in the Superman comics in the 50s.

Octopus Prime 07-14-2015 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaeran (Post 1975128)
I recently read through Avengers vs. X-Men and all of its ancillary material. Did You Know That Mr. Sinister...

...Constructed an underground replica of Victorian-era London beneath San Francisco?

...Named this city Sinister London?

...Populated it entirely with clones of himself, who lived and worked under his rule, between constant attempts to overthrow him?

...Declared his civilization of clones a separate species, called homo sinister?

Ridiculous? Or ridiculously awesome?

Congratulations on making Mister Sinister my single favorite Marvel villain.

madhair60 07-14-2015 11:04 AM

Kieron Gillen.

upupdowndown 07-14-2015 11:04 AM

I'm gonna chime in and say that the Morrison and Whedon runs are really worth reading. Morrison's run is pretty mindblowing and brought a much-needed shakeup to the status quo; Whedon's run contains hugely enjoyable characterization and is a nice shift back to superheroics.

Sven 07-14-2015 11:34 AM

Yeah. Morrison's run is X-Men for people who don't like X-Men; Whedon's is for people who liked X-Men at one point in the past, but ran away screaming in the 90s.

(Whedon's only problem is that it was typical Marvel decompressed storytelling; the pace is sloooooooow. The best issue of the run was the one-off with the FF as guest stars; it's a pity the entire thing couldn't have been written with that energy.)

Büge 07-14-2015 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Scott (Post 1975111)
I wish they could somehow go back and do a story that follows Claremont's intended origins for Rogue.

The love child of two women, one of whom is a shapeshifter. How shocking!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Scott (Post 1975111)
I wish they could somehow go back and do a story that follows Claremont's intended origins for Madelyne Pryor.

A non-mutant who bears a resemblance to Scott Summers's dead wife. Scandalous!

Rascally Badger 07-14-2015 01:17 PM

He brought that Madelyne Pryor one on himself. She didn't bear a resemblance to Jean, she looked exactly like Jean. It was practically begging to be revisited.

Sven 07-14-2015 01:51 PM

I'm not saying that *only* non-X-fans liked it, merely that it was primarily written with non-X-fans in mind.

Quote:

“My intention is to use the rich history of the X-MEN more as background window dressing and as a treasure trove of material we can recut for a new eager audience (in the same way Claremont and Byrne sifted out the best stuff from the original series and combined it with new material). Elements like the Savage Land or the Shi’Ar Empire will be reappraised, reintroduced and woven into the larger scale science fiction universe of the X-MEN in such a way that it will seem as though we’re seeing these concepts for the first time.”
The most famous Morrison quote about the X-Men, though, is what he thought of the state of the books before he hopped aboard:

Quote:

“The comic has turned inwards and gone septic like a toenail.”
I think you could get more unambiguous than that, but it would involve literally shitting on Scott Lobell's head.

Octopus Prime 07-14-2015 01:57 PM

My favorite part of the Morrison run was when Cyclops felt it was important to take a time-out from the exciting supervillain fight so that he and Jean could talk about their relationship, as prompted by giant, hallucinatory bugs.

Adrenaline 07-14-2015 03:30 PM

Liked the cartoon in the 90s but never watched a ton of it. Hardly remember anything from it. Enjoyed the movies once they started coming out. Finally decided to read some comics after DoFP. Quite liked Morrison and Whedon's runs, Brubaker's was okay (he's better suited for Cap and Daredevil and probably all those non-superhero books he writes), currently going through Fraction's run (a bit different because it tries to cover the entire extant mutant population and not a smaller team) and the concurrent X-Force by Kyle and Yost that is enjoyably over-the-top violent.

Violet 07-14-2015 03:58 PM

The Avengers Vs. X-Men crossover was pretty good, even though you can see where it's going to end up far, far in advance(much like Civil War) and it centers on Hope who is a boring character. It was a perfect series to read at my local library and not pay for.

The highlight of AVX was Rogue stomping a unit of Avengers almost singlehandedly. Rogue, well-characterized and stealing ALL THE POWERS, is maybe the best thing that ever happens in X-Men.

Zaidyer 07-14-2015 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Büge (Post 1975289)
The love child of two women, one of whom is a shapeshifter. How shocking!

My feelings about this twist are unusually strong for having only a passing familiarity with it. Powers be damned, Mystique shouldn't have to lower herself to the level of "male" in a relationship even if it's the only way to get her girlfriend pregnant.
What we got instead was a better fit, I think; lesbian lovers who take in a troubled teen and treat her like she was their own.

estragon 07-14-2015 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven (Post 1975315)
I think you could get more unambiguous than that

None of those quotes address Nich's central point. Those are about thinking the franchise was poorly handled and inaccessible, which it was. Acknowledging that the X-Men comics were poorly handled and inaccessible at the time is a separate issue from liking or disliking the X-Men.

upupdowndown 07-14-2015 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Octopus Prime (Post 1975318)
My favorite part of the Morrison run was when Cyclops felt it was important to take a time-out from the exciting supervillain fight so that he and Jean could talk about their relationship, as prompted by giant, hallucinatory bugs.

I have posted about this before! It perfectly encapsulates why Morrison was so, so right to break up Scott and Jean so that Scott could start seeing Emma Frost and being interesting again!


Googleshng 07-14-2015 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishi (Post 1974909)
Being the worst is precisely why he's my favorite.

(Second place is Jubilee. Haters can fall back.)

Gambit can imbue any object with kinetic energy!


Gambit, I'm sorry but... we can all do that. It's called "throwing things" and it really isn't all that impressive.

ajr82 07-14-2015 10:08 PM

The rule for reading X-Men is the same as the rule for reading any superhero comics: Read for the creators, not the characters.

Jason Aaron's run on Wolverine & The X-Men is fantastic and belongs way up there in any discussion of the best X-Men runs. Kieron Gillen's run on Uncanny as well.

Alex Scott 07-14-2015 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Büge (Post 1975289)
The love child of two women, one of whom is a shapeshifter. How shocking!

That was Nightcrawler. Rogue was always Mystique's foster kid.

And that origin sure beats that crap with Azazel.

Kishi 07-14-2015 11:35 PM

I've never liked Nightcrawler turning out to be Mystique's kid, because it seems to be based on the idea that "they're both blue, so they must be related." Mystique actually being his father would at least have been an interesting twist on it.

Balrog 07-14-2015 11:40 PM

How great is this?

Sheana 07-15-2015 12:49 AM

I think I've mentioned it elsewhere before, maybe not, but anyway, there's a podcast I really enjoy called Rachel & Miles X-Plain The X-Men. It's an in-depth chronological look at the tangled continuity and character development and stories of everything X-Men, coupled with reviews and critiques and interpretations. They just got to the Mutant Massacre in the 'mid 80s, with Uncanny and The New Mutants and the then brand new X-Factor, so there's still tons of stuff to cover as yet!

Very thorough stuff, excellent for getting your head wrapped around all the X-madness!

Adam 07-15-2015 01:02 AM

Rachel and Miles are the shit.

madhair60 07-15-2015 02:18 AM

I'd like them a lot more if not for the constant, profoundly unfunny digressions into nerd humour - and it's always the same jokes, it's always these buzz phrases and, ugh. Can't stand it. Every time Miles interjects in that voice I have to make liberal use of the 15 second skip. This I feel limits their podcast's quality to "very good".

Octopus Prime 07-15-2015 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balrog (Post 1975667)
How great is this?

Kitty really hates Spider-Man.

estragon 07-15-2015 09:52 AM

I think it's funny that madhair put his annoyance with Rachel and Miles in the OP, but like every other post is like, "Hey, have you heard about that Rachel and Miles?"

(I like Rachel and Miles. I agree with madhair that they are sometimes are insufferable nerds who tell the same jokes over and over, but who else is going to explain comic continuity to you?)

Sheana 07-15-2015 10:05 AM

To be fair, that edit wasn't there when I initially read the first part of the thread.

Boy, it's almost kind of funny how universally reviled The Draco is, thinking of it. I can't think of any other X-Men storyline that made more people mad or give up on the series like it did with me. And yet, they still put Azazel in the First Class movie.


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