The Thief thread of stomping everywhere in heavy boots for some reason

[ThricebornPhoenix]

Seriously, Garrett is not a sneaky dude. What are his shoes made of? Anyway, I've played Thief Gold and Thief 2 for the first time this year and have some thoughts.

The main reason I put these games off for so long is that I heard, over and over, that the levels in the first two (or "real") Thief games were much longer than those in Deadly Shadows, even if you disregard that TDS had to split up its levels. I barely had enough mental overhead for some of the longer levels in TDS, so the idea of significantly larger areas was terrifying. Well, there are a few huge levels, but for the most part they really aren't that big. Most of them took me around 2 hours, which is on par with what I remember from TDS.

I also heard some contradictory things about 1 & 2 with regards to weaponry. The "real" Thiefs are good because you aren't allowed to kill people, but they're also good because Garrett has a sword instead of a dinky little dagger and can use proper swordplay when fighting guards. My question: Why would a stealthy pickpocket/cat burglar/etc. who spends most of his energy trying to stay away from any sort of conflict carry any bladed weapon? I guess you can use the sword on burricks and spiders, but it's really not necessary or important at all. You get tons of broadhead and fire arrows anyway.

The much-hyped rope arrow turned out to be little more than a key item in Thief Gold; that is, useless (with a few small exceptions) until mandatory. Apparently wood is not a popular building material in The City. Who knew? I actually got more use out of TDS's climbing gloves, although I believe that was mainly in the hub areas. Thief 2 is where the rope arrow really shines, possibly a little too much. Small note: the branchy shaft of the vine arrow is cool.

And of course, who could forget "you have to actually look for loot because there's no loot glint"? My loot collection percentages were identical across most of the levels in all three games. As I expected, collectibles tended to contrast with the environment more in the older games. A lot of them are also largeish objects, like wine bottles, or placed in very obvious locations.

I did play with whatever are the big recommended bugfix and I believe graphics mods. Did I miss out on anything by not having a fully authentic experience?

Basically, the first two games are actually pretty good and cool and not obscenely difficult or stressful or combat-oriented, despite what the Thief fandom had lead me to believe. Most of my experience from Deadly Shadows carried over with only little adjustments to make, and I finally got context for a lot of the little headscratchers I found in TDS. In conclusion,

 

[Adrenaline]

Thief was really scary when I saw it at a friend's house when it was new. I played it myself a few years ago and had a pretty good time with it. For some reason I think older fans of immersive sims always speak as if the genre was better in the old days but I think the tradeoff of obscurity for playability is generally... good?

 

[Pheeel]

Seriously, Garrett is not a sneaky dude. What are his shoes made of? Anyway, I've played Thief Gold and Thief 2 for the first time this year and have some thoughts.

The main reason I put these games off for so long is that I heard, over and over, that the levels in the first two (or "real") Thief games were much longer than those in Deadly Shadows, even if you disregard that TDS had to split up its levels. I barely had enough mental overhead for some of the longer levels in TDS, so the idea of significantly larger areas was terrifying. Well, there are a few huge levels, but for the most part they really aren't that big. Most of them took me around 2 hours, which is on par with what I remember from TDS.

I also heard some contradictory things about 1 & 2 with regards to weaponry. The "real" Thiefs are good because you aren't allowed to kill people, but they're also good because Garrett has a sword instead of a dinky little dagger and can use proper swordplay when fighting guards. My question: Why would a stealthy pickpocket/cat burglar/etc. who spends most of his energy trying to stay away from any sort of conflict carry any bladed weapon? I guess you can use the sword on burricks and spiders, but it's really not necessary or important at all. You get tons of broadhead and fire arrows anyway.

The much-hyped rope arrow turned out to be little more than a key item in Thief Gold; that is, useless (with a few small exceptions) until mandatory. Apparently wood is not a popular building material in The City. Who knew? I actually got more use out of TDS's climbing gloves, although I believe that was mainly in the hub areas. Thief 2 is where the rope arrow really shines, possibly a little too much. Small note: the branchy shaft of the vine arrow is cool.

And of course, who could forget "you have to actually look for loot because there's no loot glint"? My loot collection percentages were identical across most of the levels in all three games. As I expected, collectibles tended to contrast with the environment more in the older games. A lot of them are also largeish objects, like wine bottles, or placed in very obvious locations.

I did play with whatever are the big recommended bugfix and I believe graphics mods. Did I miss out on anything by not having a fully authentic experience?

Basically, the first two games are actually pretty good and cool and not obscenely difficult or stressful or combat-oriented, despite what the Thief fandom had lead me to believe. Most of my experience from Deadly Shadows carried over with only little adjustments to make, and I finally got context for a lot of the little headscratchers I found in TDS. In conclusion,

That is indeed a terrible opinion about Soulforge, can't fathom anyone getting through that and thinking "meh". It's a mission I dreaded revisiting on replays because it was so overwhelming and draining the first time through, but I've come to appreciate it more and more over the years as an amazing achievement. It commits the cardinal sin of introducing brand new play mechanics right at the very end of the game; but yet it works, because it's all about throwing you into a situation where most the techniques you've employed up to now will do you no good, as there's nothing human left in Soulforge to employ them on. You're effectively learning new skills on the fly in order to survive.

This video is a good summation of what makes it so remarkable.

If I have any criticism it's the lack of a real final confrontation with Karras even though it feels like the whole game up to this point has been building to one, and the incredibly abrupt ending is a disappointment after all the effort it takes to get through it - although given the fact Looking Glass Studios was practically collapsing around the ears of the production team, it's lucky the game was finished at all.

I would be curious to know what difficulty you played on, as depending on that missions can change drastically in terms of objectives and loot requirements. And also, did you play the extra Thief Gold missions, as they include two of the best and worst experiences in the whole series. The Thieves' Guild could test the patience of a saint.