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The Nintendo Thread of Existential Doom
- Thread starter Becksworth
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- 2 nintendo 2 switch and so they were both switches bopitivity time drift-compatible haven't outsold the ps2? pathetic. is nintendo doomed? its a cereal wow new super nintendo switch 2 x turbo & knuckles nintendo nintendo cinematic universe nintendo direct-ly into my veins nintendo switch nintendoom play it loud snitches get switches switch switch it up switch port when? the doom is evergreen the splatoon 3 game for the nintendo switch system the switching hour
It actually is haha. The SD reader on the Switch 1 is something like 10x slower than for an express SD that the Switch 2 is asking for. Even if they upgraded things, the best of the older types of SD cards are a good 3-4x slower than Express ones.
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
The problem being that games are being designed around that faster read speed and they'll break if they can't load stuff in in time.
On the one hand, tariff stuff undoubtedly threw things into a bit of turmoil. But it's also Nintendo, so I fully believe the storage situation would be just as bad even if there were no tariffs. How the hell do you (basically) require folks to buy a specialty form of storage for your new console and only have the smallest size readily available for purchase when the console comes out?
This isn't about 30fps vs 120fps. And this also isn't about accepting a 4s load time vs a 1s load time. You'd see slower read speeds impact just about every single aspect of the game in ways that would be hard for even the most casual of gamers to stomach.
Consider this -- for most games these days, things that are not currently in view of the camera are not actually actively loaded into memory. This is a system-resource conservation thing. It allows for more complex geometry and textures than if you loaded literally everything. If you had to design your games like that, you'd see the fidelity of modern games suddenly revert back to PS3/360 era models and textures. Modern games then actively load textures and models as they are needed for on-screen input. So when you turn the camera, the game is actively loading things as they enter view. This way of doing things can only work if your read speeds are fast enough to keep up with demand.
Nearly all modern games are now being designed with m.2 SSD speeds in mind for loading. It's been a big hurdle and why a lot of the nicer, fancier games either never got ports to Switch1, or the ones that did were so incredibly compromised that they were essentially unplayable. If the Switch2 didn't have standards for which type of SD cards they'd allow, either models and textures would have to be simplified to the point where they'd look ugly and people would question why they're buying brand new $500 hardware, or you'd see unprecedented levels pop-in the likes of which would drive anyone insane.
I'm not super bothered by this. At least, not yet. If there are memory card shortages like, 6mo from now still, then we'll consider paddlin' them.
Samsung microSD express cards are also hilarious overpriced atm. They're asking like $70 for 256GB. Walmart is putting out their own generic brand (ONN) cards, that are over half the price, and they scale in size up to 1TB. They're all sold out right now and being scalped, but flash storage is one of the remaining sectors of the tech industry where prices have consistently gone down over time. In a few months, demand will back off, supply should go up, and prices will come down.
If they don't, it's because of external factors like the economy collapsing, in which case, we'll all have better things to worry about vs our stupid video gaming habits.
I know it isn't about 30fps vs 120fps, that was just another example of a particular bugbear I have with the state of the industry. And I've long lamented the graphic fidelity increases seemingly required for gamers to be satisfied! I played the Oblivion remaster at ultra low settings on my Steam Deck, which for many people was an experience they found "unplayable" and "ugly" but for which I was very pleased! I guess I just think people need to lower their standards. I don't need the level of graphical fidelity people seem to want these days, even beyond fps.
I don't personally disagree too much, but really good looking games are wonderful experiences in their own. And everyone games for their own reasons/has their own preferences that are just as valid as ours. Also, if you don't need better graphics at all, then you're kinda also not the target demo for brand new consoles either. Since that's kind of the entire point of new consoles. Otherwise, keep going with what isn't broken.
I don't *need* games to be state-of-the-art to have fun with them. But Switch1's hardware limitations were getting to the point where a lot of games made by smaller developers were getting to be straight unplayable. Story of Seasons games on Switch run so poorly once your farms get to a cetain size that it's actually unplayable. And not in a oh no my game isn't 60fps buttery smooth way, I mean the game will completely seize up while running across your farm because the loading causes the framerate to completely crash beyond a slideshow into just a still, unresponsive image.
I've had mine for a couple of days now! It's time for my List of Little Things I Noticed About the Switch 2
- It's big! I'm much more nervous about dropping it than I was the original Switch.
- It's full! I wasn't able to transfer over all my old games, even though I had a 256GB micro SD on the old Switch. I guess MKW is taking up 20 gigs, and the upgrade for BotW is adding another 10. I don't want to buy a micro SD express card until they are more common (and hopefully a bit cheaper), but I also wasn't banking on running out of space on day 1.
- The magnetic Joycons really feel like the true realization of the form. They pop out really quickly and are super satisfying to snap in. The original rail system used on the Switch seems kind of embarrassing by comparison.
- The mouse controls are surprisingly good! A sideways joycon is a pretty awkward shape for a mouse, but it makes up for that by having gyroscope controls that allow for rotation. Kind of makes me wish my computer mouse could do that.
- Breath of the Wild with the upgrade is super smooth! To a point where it's actually kind of weird for my brain! I'm sure I'll get over it. Also, with HDR, the fire and all the glowy bits on the shrines really pop.
- My son has been having a great time with Welcome Tour. Should it have been a free pack in? Of course! But you should probably buy it anyway.
- I've only played a little Mario Kart World, but Wario Harbor is definitely a keeper.
Overall, it's neat, but I'm not hyper excited about Mario Kart, so there's not a ton to play just yet. Also, I'm glad my original pro controller is compatible with this thing because the new one costs $110 freaking dollars in Canada.
- It's big! I'm much more nervous about dropping it than I was the original Switch.
- It's full! I wasn't able to transfer over all my old games, even though I had a 256GB micro SD on the old Switch. I guess MKW is taking up 20 gigs, and the upgrade for BotW is adding another 10. I don't want to buy a micro SD express card until they are more common (and hopefully a bit cheaper), but I also wasn't banking on running out of space on day 1.
- The magnetic Joycons really feel like the true realization of the form. They pop out really quickly and are super satisfying to snap in. The original rail system used on the Switch seems kind of embarrassing by comparison.
- The mouse controls are surprisingly good! A sideways joycon is a pretty awkward shape for a mouse, but it makes up for that by having gyroscope controls that allow for rotation. Kind of makes me wish my computer mouse could do that.
- Breath of the Wild with the upgrade is super smooth! To a point where it's actually kind of weird for my brain! I'm sure I'll get over it. Also, with HDR, the fire and all the glowy bits on the shrines really pop.
- My son has been having a great time with Welcome Tour. Should it have been a free pack in? Of course! But you should probably buy it anyway.
- I've only played a little Mario Kart World, but Wario Harbor is definitely a keeper.
Overall, it's neat, but I'm not hyper excited about Mario Kart, so there's not a ton to play just yet. Also, I'm glad my original pro controller is compatible with this thing because the new one costs $110 freaking dollars in Canada.
4-So
Spicy
I/O is the usual bottleneck so Nintendo moving to microSD express has always made sense to me.
Prices on the cards will go down over time but I'm curious if the average person cares too deeply about having optimal (read: maximum) storage. Seems like they'd just delete old games to free up space and redownload them as needed in the future, similar to how a lot of people free of space on their phones. I understand the storage space anxiety though, even if I don't have it myself because I only buy physical. Outside of the Zelda upgrade packs and the lightweight NSO stuff, my Switch 2 storage is digital-free. (I would have picked up Bravely Default but that's a key card situation and if you hear a low rumble that's just me grumbling about it. Not that I want to relitigate key card tomfuckery.)
Prices on the cards will go down over time but I'm curious if the average person cares too deeply about having optimal (read: maximum) storage. Seems like they'd just delete old games to free up space and redownload them as needed in the future, similar to how a lot of people free of space on their phones. I understand the storage space anxiety though, even if I don't have it myself because I only buy physical. Outside of the Zelda upgrade packs and the lightweight NSO stuff, my Switch 2 storage is digital-free. (I would have picked up Bravely Default but that's a key card situation and if you hear a low rumble that's just me grumbling about it. Not that I want to relitigate key card tomfuckery.)
Switch onboard only has 256GB, and I'm sure a decent amount of that is reserved for the OS. So it makes sense that you'd run out if you did a full transfer.
The prices people seem shell-shocked by are like, officially licensed/branded ones. Which are always going to have a premium price for no reason. Walmart's generic brand (ONN -- which by all accounts seems perfectly fine/usable) has 512GB cards that cost less than the official 256GB ones already, and they have 1TB ones as well. A little patience and we'll be in a place where all of this is very affordable.
Also, I get what you're saying about deleting and re-downloading, but my data-hording habits are what they are, and it's also annoying to have to do that kind of thing when you just want to be able to pick up a controller and just immediately play stuff.
The onboard 256GB is just barely enough for the games that I'm in the middle of or want to start soon, and that's going to be a problem real soon, because this thing is going to have some whoppers. But merely doubling it won't be a sufficient fix either. I'll put up with a cramped storage situation until I can get a terabyte, I think.
I am similarly someone that wants 2 TB of storage space for literally every game that could possibly fit on the Switch 2... But I feel like advertising and general consumer usability indicates that caring about such a thing puts you in the minority. I can sort games on any of the system-based shops by price, but I don't think there is an option on any storefront for size. And I have never seen a game advertised with the bullet point "will actually fit on your system" in the last... what?... 2 decades that hard drives and hard drive space has been an issue? I can't remember "file size" being part of the conversation since Symphony of the Night released on Xbox 360...
Might have been nice if they'd followed Xbox on this one.
You can add the proprietary storage that newer games require, and/or plug in an external hard drive.
The catch is that the newer games can't run off the external drive, but you can transfer and store them there to free up internal memory and shuffle them back and forth as needed.
Meanwhile, games from previous generations that don't require the higher speed can still run from it just fine.
Seeing as people are being encouraged to shunt everything from their old Switch to the Switch 2, this seems like it would have been a good option.
You can add the proprietary storage that newer games require, and/or plug in an external hard drive.
The catch is that the newer games can't run off the external drive, but you can transfer and store them there to free up internal memory and shuffle them back and forth as needed.
Meanwhile, games from previous generations that don't require the higher speed can still run from it just fine.
Seeing as people are being encouraged to shunt everything from their old Switch to the Switch 2, this seems like it would have been a good option.
Nintendo seems to be one of the rare companies who generally try to keep file sizes for their games down, too (Square Enix being the exact opposite - I'd accuse them of hating compressing a single file but obviously that'd be ridiculous. It's just they don't compress ENOUGH).
Nah, what Microsoft does regarding their storage solutions is probably the most anti-consumer thing in the industry. You really shouldn't want other companies to do what they do. The only thing worse than what MS does is if you just did what Apple does instead where you can't upgrade at all.
Microsoft's proprietary storage is always obscenely expensive and charges way higher than going market rates for the storage they give you. And there's really no purpose for it beyond extracting more wealth from people trapped in their ecosystem. Paying double or triple for storage than if you were to grab an identical SSD off the shelf is fucking bullshit.
Offloading onto an external also kinda defeats the purpose of the Switch. Having to carry around an attached portable hdd kinda defeats the purpose of having something slim and portable to begin with. I personally wouldn't mind since I keep my Switches perma-docked, but initiating a file transfer for USB -- for me -- is probably about as fast as just downloading it again.
I've really been enjoying Mario Kart World. I'm also not very good at Mario Kart World past 50cc, ah well. Totally worth going for the bundle if you're already buying a Switch 2.
I haven't had any trouble with storage because what was on my Switch and its little memory card was less than the Switch 2's capacity by a good margin. I installed most of what I couldn't fit on the old Switch, and still have a bit left over! But I also buy majority cartridge so I can see why it wouldn't be enough for some. I'm in no big rush to expand, though.
I haven't had any trouble with storage because what was on my Switch and its little memory card was less than the Switch 2's capacity by a good margin. I installed most of what I couldn't fit on the old Switch, and still have a bit left over! But I also buy majority cartridge so I can see why it wouldn't be enough for some. I'm in no big rush to expand, though.
It does feel a bit harder than MK8DX. Normally I can cruise through 100cc pretty comfortably but here I've had to work for it a bit, and even got a silver trophy for one of the cups.
I'm having a grand time with it, though. I've barely scratched the surface of Free Roam and have yet to even try Knockout Tour, but I've done all the Grand Prix cups. Some of the sights and setpieces are really striking, like driving across the bridge to Crown City as sunset fades into night, or the massive water spout that shoots you up into the sky in the Great ? Block Ruins. Or just Rainbow Road in general. I've always been a little distracted by the enticing sights in other Mario Kart games, wanting to leave the track and go explore the backgrounds of the courses. And now I can!
This isn't specific to World but I don't know that there's a better feeling in video games than being in 2nd place and overtaking the frontrunner just as a blue shell locks onto them. It's like framing someone for murder! ("Vaeran why is that the first analogy that comes to your mind" shhhhhhhhhh)
AND THE MUSIC. It's fantastic and varied, with some of the best tracks (and unexpected arrangements of classic Mario pieces) coming up in the drives between courses. I particularly enjoyed a jazzy medley of the SMB2 overworld and underworld themes.
Nobody does it like Nintendo.
They've been doing that for three straight generations at this point. PS3, PS4, and PS5 all let you install your own off-the-shelf HDDs/SSDs. Sony makes a lot of choices but their hardware decisions have been relatively spot-on/consumer friendly for a while now.
Nintendo's decision to go with SD cards for the Switch/Switch 2 has been almost as good. Literally the only problem right now is that SD Express cards are so bleeding edge that there's a supply shortage. Nobody will remember or care in just a few months once supply and production increases to meet demand. And going with an open standard sure beats the fuck out of other portable consoles (The PSP/Vita and their proprietary Memory Sticks say hi.)
what i've heard is that currently people making full game carts exclusive to ns2 (as opposed to forward compatible ns carts) are required to to use 64gb carts which cost $16 per unit to the game publisher and is why so many cartridges are slated to just be keys. which kind of makes it sound like there's a chance of an adoption rate paradox...like the sd cards, the price should come down as the technological part becomes more widely used, but that might not happen if everybody else just agrees that it's not worth the risk to buy in. (i did see someone at xseed cite customer feedback as the reason they decided to go for full cartridges for rune factory, which i think is the only game aside from mkw currently releasing on one?)
and yeah, while playstation consoles have been good about hard drives for almost 20 years now...i really think the high price of vita memory sticks severely hindered the platform, and it feels still like a totally baffling decision to me considering they had already released a model of the psp with no UMD, relying solely on memory space for its media usage. obviously given monster hunter and pokemon i don't think they were ever really going to be keeping pace with the 3ds, but i still think it was incredibly shortsighted.
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
Yeah, on the console side that's true, it's the handheld side that has me a little salty. Pro Duos were expensive, but not nearly as bad as those Vita cards. And what's worse is the larger the capacity, the greater chance it would fail. I've got a 16GB card that went belly up, but I think the 8GB is still ticking. Not that I use either anymore - I got an SD2Vita and hacked both my Vita and PSTV and never looked back. (I also used those dual-card PhotoFast adapters on the PSP.)
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