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The Metroid Thread: BOMB ALL THE WALLS!

Vaeran

(GRUNTING)
(he/him)
I love the ice missiles. Like, she can't use the ice beam because of Metroid DNA, so she finds a way around it.

Not trying to put you on the spot here, but this explanation never made much sense to me. What does one's DNA have to do with shooting ice out of an arm cannon? Is there no thermal insulation between the cannon and her physical arm? That seems like a design flaw. And clearly Samus isn't physically storing 255 missiles on her person, so her suit must be generating them on the fly from some sort of internal reserve... just like beams. At that point the distinction between missiles and beams seems very thin but apparently it's crucial. I don't get it!

I guess this is why I'm not designing space armor for a living.
 

Daikaiju

Rated Ages 6+
(He, Him)
While the suit can easily provide the energy for the missle's payloads, I'm guessing it can only hold so much raw material to create the delivery vehicle. Likewise, the regular bombs are basically energy bubbles but the power bombs also require special housing and therefore, again can only have so much matter on hand to create them.

At least, that's my headcanon. /shrug
 

Lokii

(He/Him)
Staff member
Moderator
It's the same reason metroid dna turns her suit into a slime monster


Space bird wizards?
 

Bongo

excused from moderation duty
(he/him)
Staff member
Metroids are allergic to ice, and she's a metroid now, which means she's allergic to ice, and can only safely handle it if it's wrapped inside of a missile.
 

RT-55J

space hero for hire
(He/Him + RT/artee)
I imagine at this point that giving Samus a cone of ice cream would be like giving a dog a bar of chocolate. Don't do it.
 

Mr. Sensible

Pitch and Putt Duffer
Fusion has some of the best sprites in the whole dang series. That big blue-and-purple Neo Ridley is fantastic.

And who doesn't love getting stalked by a deadly overpowered saxophone?
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
My headcanon is that her regular beams are generated by absorbing heating and shooting out the ambient dust and debris of her surrounding. And the Charge Beams are doing that on a larger scale. And missiles are charge beams that absorb energy at a *reckless* rate so the “missile counter” is really just an indication of how often she can do that without damaging herself.

As for how this applies to making Ice Missiles make sense with the Fusion Suit; no idea. But clearly deep cold insulation is built into the main Power Suit to b some level since you can fire Ice Beams with impunity in the finale.
 

Olli

(he/him)
I'm just a little disappointed that the series has gone for "what if Samus... but weird/evil?" as the big recurring rival more than once.
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
I assume the power suits can just create different matter types based on what upgrades are equipped. Samus can just will it in and out of existence and all. Raven Beak was creating miniature stars with his even.

But yeah, post Fusion Samus needs the ice encapsulated in something to shield herself from it.

Edit: Worth reminding that in addition to Alien, Metroid's influences include things like Lensmen and Green Latern.
 

Lokii

(He/Him)
Staff member
Moderator
I'm just a little disappointed that the series has gone for "what if Samus... but weird/evil?" as the big recurring rival more than once.

SA-X is def the coolest of the various Negasamus clones. A big ball of goo in a Samussuit

This game got some real goo on goo violence huh
 

Patrick

Magic-User
(He/Him)
SA-X, first and best.

And if Samus’ missile storage bothers you, don’t think too hard about her rolling up into a ball. Or, like, crystal flash.
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Yeah, Dark Samus is honestly the lamer of the two, though I do see why they went with her? for Smash visually speaking.
 

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
True, though I feel like maybe they should have steered that in a more divergent direction after Fusion ate their lunch.
 

SpoonyBard

Threat Rhyme
(He/Him)
I like Dark Samus' color scheme better, but otherwise SA-Xomophone is a better evil Samus by a wide margin yeah.

I'm still lukewarm on Fusion, the constant text and interuptions are a big part of it but even the world design is way more constricted. This is exemplified by the Screw Attack being the one upgrade that pretty much busts the station wide open for exploration and it's the last one you get, which was a much more obvious issue in Fusion randomizers where whether or not you get an early Screw Attack decides how much flexibility your routing has.

A bit unfair to judge a game through the lens of a randomizer perhaps, but it really shone a light on how the world design of the game was guided much more obviously by the story than others. Its main contemporary, Zero Mission, is also constrained this way but it is much less obvious about it and provides much more flexibility even if that flexibility feels more deliberate than Super's.

Still I like Fusion much more now than when it came out, but on my personal ranking it still falls under Prime 1, Zero Mission, and Dread.
 
That part also applies to Prime, as I rediscovered in playing the remaster. It's a huge point of disambiguation between the earlier and later parts of the series, and I definitely have a preference.
That Quadraxis boss in echoes is really great however
 

Octopus Prime

Mysterious Contraption
(He/Him)
I honestly think I like Dark Samus more than SA-X; visually more interesting as a Bad Samus than “Literally Samus Unless You Can See Her Face”, has a bit more agency as a villain too, and I like the Pirates’ reaction to her, ranging from “Oh crap! There’s two of them?!?” To “Well, if we can’t beat ‘em, might as well start praying to ‘em”
 

Regulus

Sir Knightbot
Part of what makes the SA-X so interesting to me is it's a representation of how much stronger Samus was before her infection. The biggest threat to Samus herself is an entity that mimics her at peak ability. That it just looks like classic Varia Samus is a strength. The X parasites' motivation is more novel, too - survive and multiply, by any means necessary.
 
I'm liking Fusion a bit more this time for two primary reasons
  1. I'm really taking the intro text to heart, especially the part about "Following the commands of this blunt, computerized CO is something I have to bear"
  2. I'm treating it more like a combat-focused Metroid akin to Samus Returns and Dread. In that respect, the cramped and tight corridors of the space station and the dangerous creatures make for some hard battles, especially on low percentage runs.
I'm also trying to be more mindful of the platform it was designed for, hence the need for bright colors and working within a smaller resolution. Metroid II alternated wide open areas with cramped places for combat, but the limitations of the small GB screen led to a lot of just space jumping in blackness (I happen to love that about Metroid II though). The space station is a totally different environment and the inability to just break it open or get to wide open spaces adds some anxiety to the game. Fusion and Dread are both games about Samus out of her element and underpowered in ways, but they both do some unique and fun things with it.

And the game DOES eventually let you break it open. Getting the screw attack and then having freedom of exploration is ultimately a more satisfying and empowering end game thing than having all the teleporters link together like in Dread.

I'm saying good things about Metroid Fusion, progress is made. The healing has begun.
 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
I remember liking Fusion more than most people at the time it came out, though I didn't disagree with the criticisms about it being too talky or too linear. Maybe I should give it a revisit and see if I still like it that much.

I'll say this, the SA-X setpieces are some of the most tense and frightening moments in the series. It seems like they've been trying to recapture that tension ever since, like with the EMMIs, but failing. The only thing that gets close are encounters with Metroids themselves in 1, Super, and Prime, imho. (Remember in Prime when you found the breached Metroid containment and then the lights went out? Or was it vice-versa? Regardless, I remember that setpiece and hooboy was it a good one for Alien-style Space Terror). I agree that the villain in this being Just Samus makes it all the more terrifying, because it adds a Terminator vibe to the usual Alien one. She's (it's?) a killing machine, and you know exactly how powerful it is, and it is coming for you and will not stop.

Speaking of which, the Alien influence is well-known and obvious, but I think by Fusion it's also kind of worn-out. We already know that Samus becomes an unstoppable killing machine by the end, and the fear of these creeping aliens (metroids) leaping at us from the darkness is somewhat tempered. In the same way that Alien shifted to more action-y vibes with Aliens, it seems the series has done the same, and probably for the same reasons (we know they can be beaten, but can you beat more?) There's kind of two main vibes in the series, where Samus is either the Hunter, or the Hunted. I wonder if there's a way to recapture that original/Super vibe of being the Hunted, of lost and alone, stranded in a place populated by dangerous aliens, rather than being the Hunter (which started as early as Metroid 2), where you're there to kick ass and take names. The EMMIs tried but I think a lot of us would agree that they failed in making Samus the hunted again. Was Fusion the last time we had that Hunted vibe?
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
(Remember in Prime when you found the breached Metroid containment and then the lights went out? Or was it vice-versa? Regardless, I remember that setpiece and hooboy was it a good one for Alien-style Space Terror).

I think that's the intention, but in practice the way Metroids are implemented in Prime is yet another way in which it fumbles the execution. You're able to buy Metroids as the threat the games narratively sell them as because the mechanics around them justify it in how relentlessly they charge at you, being distracted by nothing in their way. They're genuinely difficult to keep away and shake off if your attention lapses even for a moment in the first three games. Prime makes them float about with seeming disinterest for much of their screentime, and even when they do get on the offensive, all they do is a slow lunge with incredibly clear telegraphing through animation and audio cues, making it very difficult to ever be hit by them. There's no intimidation factor or anxiety about occupying space along with them at all--merely annoyance, as the Fission Metroids in particular make dispatching them a slower process, but not any more challenging or interestingly integrated, and they're slotted into the Tourian counterpart in the game's structure that's supposed to serve as the climax. They're a pretty good microcosm for most of the issues I have with how Prime adapts the series into its own spin on the formula, at least on the enemy design end.

If you start viewing the series according to a dichotomy like hunter/hunted, it just highlights Metroid II for me in that context. Part of why it's my favourite game in the series is that it's the most emotionally complex entry both aesthetically and in premise, where you're on a mission of genocide and the game both has aesthetic and mechanical room to grant that scenario the gravity it deserves, and the narrative flexibility for players to make up their own minds what such a task means for Samus and what exactly happens to her in the depths of SR388. I do not think later games always capitalized on its significance--they may have even contradicted the ideas that I find appealing about it as an ethical quagmire--but that also plays into the preference I have for the earlier games when less of this stuff was codified and nailed down in intent.
 

RT-55J

space hero for hire
(He/Him + RT/artee)
I'll say this, the SA-X setpieces are some of the most tense and frightening moments in the series. It seems like they've been trying to recapture that tension ever since, like with the EMMIs, but failing.
I know I've made this argument before, but I feel that even Fusion has difficulty recapturing the tension of the SA-X on a first playthrough. They are very well executed for what they are, but quickly fall apart under informed scrutiny. The EMMI, while perhaps a bit undercooked, have the advantage of being sufficiently dynamic and random so they don't become rote exercises on replays. Either way, it's really tough lightning to rebottle, and by this point I feel they need to rethink their approach here rather than attempting to reiterate on the concept of an implacable stalker for the nth time.
 

spines

cyber true color
(she/her, or something)
i haven't played dread, and as much as i hate to make preconceptions about things the main reason i haven't played it is because i basically imagine i'll probably enjoy playing it once but mostly have my expectations confirmed about how much i'll really like it. but i think there's like two things about SA-X in fusion, and they're kinda closely related (particularly in that...the effect of both of them is lessened when you have knowledge/memories how the game goes). basically alongside the tension/horror aspect i also think those sequences are a major source of looking for secrets and not feeling like you're not backtracking along the same paths. and i mean, neither of those really stand out as much if you remember that to get past this one part you go that way and then follow this route back to the save station over there

but i really think that's ok? i think there's a common feeling in like from games where people feel really tense the first time through the game, and try to clear out and safely move to the next point, and there's even the occasional jumpscare and stuff. then once you know where all the stuff you care about is on a replay you don't keep doing it the same way, you think "nah, forget that" and you start just sprinting past stuff and going for wacky jumps. just like the same joke isn't funny forever, the same scenario isn't scary forever, and while randomness can also be funny and/or scary sometimes i'm not convinced you can rely on it for those feelings

i've actually thought about writing more on this, but not here, because the game where i got served a failure state and instantly got ripped out of narrative concerns into Thinking About The Mechanics Mode has nothing to do with any of this
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Finished my Fusion playthrough. Was expecting SA-X to take a couple of tries, but muscle memory kicked in and before I knew it the fight was over. Still doesn't hold a candle to Super, Dread, or Prime, but a good game in its own right.

Also having relatively recently replayed Other M out of morbid curiosity, I think I can safely conclude these two games can't canonically co-exist, at least not without Samus having severe selective amnesia about multiple things that happened on the Bottle Ship, so Other M can safely be dismissed as a failed reimagining of Fusion at this point, even if character designs from it pop up elsewhere.
 

Becksworth

Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Well considering apparently they hit a brick wall with Dread multiple times by the time they got to Other M maybe they just wanted a clean break from it and Fusion, only for it to backfire spectacularly.

In any event, they eventually got Dread working conceptually, so Other M is wholly unnecessary narratively.
 

RT-55J

space hero for hire
(He/Him + RT/artee)
On one hand, Other M is probably the most money that Nintendo has ever poured into a Metroid title. On the other hand, several things about the game (such as it's combination of narrative insignificance and new lore possibly setting up for something) make it feel like the game was a dry run for another Metroid game, much like how Samus Returns was a dry run for Dread.

(I've conjured into my mind the images of Other M as a Metroid 2 remake and Dread as developed by Team Ninja, and I feel unwell.)

My favorite part of Other M is how there's an escape-like sequence towards the end of the game, and it's accompanied by an epic, full-length original song (that legit rocks) --- that is, until 20 seconds into the sequence where it's interrupted by a brief cutscene, and when the game resumes SM's escape music is playing instead. (Also, this takes place directly after the single worst cutscene that Nintendo has ever produced.)
 
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