• Welcome to Talking Time's third iteration! If you would like to register for an account, or have already registered but have not yet been confirmed, please read the following:

    1. The CAPTCHA key's answer is "Percy"
    2. Once you've completed the registration process please email us from the email you used for registration at percyreghelper@gmail.com and include the username you used for registration

    Once you have completed these steps, Moderation Staff will be able to get your account approved.

  • TT staff acknowledge that there is a backlog of new accounts that await confirmation.

    Unfortunately, we are putting new registrations on hold for a short time.

    We do not expect this delay to extend beyond the first of November 2020, and we ask you for your patience in this matter.

    ~TT Moderation Staff

The Mega Drive Mini 2 - Sega Minis What Nintendon't

LBD_Nytetrayn

..and his little cat, too
(He/him)
...is the SEGA CD Model 2 add-on available here?

I'm still rather pissed about how the Model 1 went down, which I'd much rather have, but I'm willing to consider this one.
 

Aurelia

(she/her)
I originally wasn't too interested in picking this up, but I'm honestly pretty amazed at the amount of love that M2 has put into the library of this mini console. It's seriously impressive. Now if only this wasn't a limited release in North America.
For the record the footage of Super Locomotive has ever so slightly messed with the music to not actually be Rydeen (I believe that M2 are calling the track 'Ryzeen') but nobody here has mentioned yet that they've made a port to Genesis of Fantasy Zone and that they have given Space Harrier II a rebuilt version akin to Fantazy Zone IIDX.


I presume that there are at least some licensing issues involved but I still think it needed to be Wirehead over Sewer Shark
That's good to know that it's very clearly adjusted for licensing reasons, when I saw that clip in the trailer I was amazed at how off it sounded compared to the original. I assumed that was the case, as i failed to believe that M2 of all companies would screw up the music but it just really surprised me.
 

ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
They should have brought in Yuzo Koshiro to do a YMO-inspired track. What little of "Ryzeen" I've heard sounds like they shifted the pitch of a handful of notes, and turned what was a great chip tune cover of a great song into... kind of a discordant mess. Maybe they just expect hackers to change it back to what it was supposed to be, and there's a good chance someone will actually do that.
 

Aurelia

(she/her)
They should have brought in Yuzo Koshiro to do a YMO-inspired track. What little of "Ryzeen" I've heard sounds like they shifted the pitch of a handful of notes, and turned what was a great chip tune cover of a great song into... kind of a discordant mess. Maybe they just expect hackers to change it back to what it was supposed to be, and there's a good chance someone will actually do that.
Yeah, it's kind of hard to listen to from the small clip we've heard.

I'd prefer an original track over what we have at the moment. Very surprised that they didn't bring in Yuzo Koshiro, or alternatively their own in-house composer chibi-tech for an original track. Her work on the Sega Vintage Collection's menu themes were fantastic and she would have composed something far better over what we have now.
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
Having M2 do this guarantees an extra level of care. I wonder what they'd do with a SNES mini to beat what Nintendo did?
I honestly don't think they've quite beaten the SNES Classic. While the emulation quality and presentation is top notch, both the Genesis Mini and PC Engine Mini have a good bit more input lag than the SNES Classic, which is shockingly good in that regard. (Not so much the NES Classic, though, which has similar input lag and has sound lag.)
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
I honestly don't think they've quite beaten the SNES Classic. While the emulation quality and presentation is top notch, both the Genesis Mini and PC Engine Mini have a good bit more input lag than the SNES Classic, which is shockingly good in that regard. (Not so much the NES Classic, though, which has similar input lag and has sound lag.)
Oh, definitely. And the Mega Drive Mini also has sound lag, which is really obvious in Strider. I think it's telling that despite owning all four of the minis the SNES Classic Mini is my favourite.

However, while the emulation is worse they do stuff like fix bugs and finish games - they're clearly enormous fans themselves, and their care displays in a different way to Nintendo's. From a historical point of view the fixed Space Harrier 2 is a bit dodgy, but I can't complain that we're getting a better game.

Would they improve Star Fox and Stunt Race FX's frame rate? I can't think of many Nintendo SNES games we know that got close to completion that got dropped outside of Star Fox 2.
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
Yeah, I really do love how they dive into the guts of the games and make changes. That would be great, especially, as you mention, a version of Star Fox or Stunt Race FX with much better frame rates.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Actually, changing most of the early SNES games to fast ROM would fix most of the slowdown. They'd absolutely do that
 

ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
This is probably the wrong place to ask... this is a pretty smart audience, but maybe not well versed in the ways of electronics. Why are software scaling routines so rare in video game systems that don't have hardware scaling? Generally speaking, when you see a game system like the Genesis attempt the illusion of 3D movement, it's done by redrawing the characters at different sizes, which is memory intensive and causes flicker, as we've seen in the Genesis version of Space Harrier. Why can't a scaling routine be written in software that stretches sprites on the fly, rather than having to re-draw them twenty or thirty times? Would it be too slow? Are there limitations beyond speed that would affect performance? Is it just more efficient for scaling and rotation to be baked into the hardware?

I've seen good 3D effects in Genesis games... The Lawnmower Man is shockingly fluid, and the same could be said for the otherwise lackluster Street Racer. I'm just curious as to why this wasn't more commonplace.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
I've ordered my UK version, which means I'll be cancelling my Japanese preorder. It's a weird feeling - I prefer a bunch of the Japanese games, but I can't read them so I'll have to take what I've got here. It's still an excellent selection.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
This is probably the wrong place to ask... this is a pretty smart audience, but maybe not well versed in the ways of electronics. Why are software scaling routines so rare in video game systems that don't have hardware scaling? Generally speaking, when you see a game system like the Genesis attempt the illusion of 3D movement, it's done by redrawing the characters at different sizes, which is memory intensive and causes flicker, as we've seen in the Genesis version of Space Harrier. Why can't a scaling routine be written in software that stretches sprites on the fly, rather than having to re-draw them twenty or thirty times? Would it be too slow? Are there limitations beyond speed that would affect performance? Is it just more efficient for scaling and rotation to be baked into the hardware?

I've seen good 3D effects in Genesis games... The Lawnmower Man is shockingly fluid, and the same could be said for the otherwise lackluster Street Racer. I'm just curious as to why this wasn't more commonplace.
Also, I searched and found this:

"The reason why the Genesis didn't scale sprites is because of the cost of memory. In order to scale sprites you need to have a buffer in memory that can support direct manipulation on a pixel level. These old systems used tile based background layers to reduce the memory footprint of a full screen's worth of tiles at the cost of pixel granularity -- background layers can only be manipulated in 8x8 tiles at a time.

The entire reason sprites were a thing was because memory was at a premium, and having memory buffers which could be drawn on any pixel on the screen cost a lot.

Now, all that said, you can scale sprites in software on the genesis by devoting a bunch of sprites together to make a buffer. It won't be big enough to cover the entire screen, but since you can directly manipulate every pixel on a sprite, putting together multiple 32x32 sprites can be used to create a soft canvas for drawing the scaled pixels.
Quite a few games actually do this, like the ending to super fantasy zone.

The Sega CD had an ASIC which could do the math needed to scale pixels and would present them to the genesis as an area of 512kb shared memory. This is why games like Sonic CD could do mode 7 special stages -- the Sega CD allowed the genesis to use the cartridge slot essentially like a memory buffer."

That said, Art of Fighting on the SNES had a rudimentary sprite scaling effect - it did it by not drawing every other pixel / row of pixels as it had to halve the size of the characters, if I recall correctly, which is pretty computationally cheap, if I understand correctly. Old school programmers were geniuses; they took an incredibly limited set of systems and did things that the hardware engineers could never have imagined.
 

ArugulaZ

Fearful asymmetry
I'm being told that the Genesis used performance enhancing drugs- er, hardware- to do those nifty scaling effects in the two Space Harrier games. I don't know who to believe on this one... I came in thinking that M2 just found some nifty software trick to make scaling happen on the Genesis, but other people are claiming that the games are running on speculative hardware. In other words, some worryingly obsessed hardware engineers said, "What if they made the Genesis with scaling hardware?," and designed a console based on that idea.

They wouldn't be the only ones making speculative hardware. The 8-Bit Guy also has a computer called the Commander X16, which is what would have happened if Commodore had expanded its 8-bit computer line instead of switching tracks to the Amiga. (But we already know the answer to that question, because Apple actually did this! It's called the Apple IIgs, and it went nowhere!) So the computer technically exists, but as a proof of concept. It's not a part of computer history; it's just someone's idea of what could have happened under the right circumstances. Weird, but okay...?

EDIT: Yep, straight from the horse's mouth. I am disappoint.


I know, I know, the console wars were thirty years ago! But I was under the impression that M2 found some software-based Rosetta Stone to make scaling work as well on a Genesis as it does the Super NES. Lies, all lies! The two Space Harriers are running on a Sega Mark V, which was the early prototype spec of the Genesis. Of course, this suggests that at some point in time, Sega at least CONSIDERED putting scaling hardware in the Genesis.
 
Last edited:

YangusKhan

does the Underpants Dance
(He/Him/His)
I wonder if someone could use that to port Starfox or Mario Kart or any other thing to the Genesis Mark V
 

Sprite

(He/Him/His)
I think it’s pretty neat that this machine has a game for a prototype system. It takes Space Harrier from a “eh, it’s fine” inclusion to a peek at an alternate timeline.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Got mine today - I like it a lot. Works wonderfully with my wireless Retrobit Genesis controller (which is nice, because I can swap between the Mini 2 and my original Genesis at will, since the controller comes with adapters for both).

I noticed something weird, though - they changed the graphics in Shining Force II. Nothing major, they just changed the plain cross from the original cart to this:

sf2change.jpg


I don't mind it - it kinda looks nice, and looks vaguely like Mitula, the goddess from later in the game - but it's just an odd choice. They didn't change that art in the Virtual Console rereleases, so I wonder what made them change it now? As far as I can tell, the script is identical to the original Genesis one, too, so it's just a weird thing to see haha.

Also, Phantasy Star II seriously has a great soundtrack. I don't know what the "easy" mode on here does, though, as my EXP gain doesn't seem to have increased, and the random battles are just as constant as ever. The walking speed is faster, though, thankfully. I might be getting more meseta from each battle, too? Can't remember. Either way, I'm enjoying myself.
 

Purple

(She/Her)
The real easy mode is getting Shir to level 12 or so and visit the first weapon shop that sells laser swords a lot to window shop, maybe also poke in the main office to save a few times too. And then of course bench her for the rest of the game.
 

WildcatJF

Red After Image
(he / his / him)
I got my Japanese Mega Drive Mini 2 last night! Only tinkered around as it arrived at 8:15 pm, but I'm so excited to explore it more!
 

Vaeran

perfect world
(he/him)
I got mine yesterday as well! The box is like, a third the size of the Genesis Mini 1's box.

In a case of bad timing, though, I just got my hacked PlayStation Classic up and running a couple days ago so I've been all involved in that and haven't had a chance to check out the new toy yet. I'll save that fun for another day!
 
Top