The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom - eponymous at last

[Peklo]

​

Breaking my usual ambivalence regarding Zelda for a change because there's a lot to be excited about with this one. Of course the obvious draw is finally granting a protagonist role to Zelda herself, but I'm also happy about how they seem to be going about it. One of my primary criticisms for something like Tears of the Kingdom was that its play systems focused around creativity and ingenuity would've been apt for how Zelda is generally characterized in these games, so that going unfulfilled stung even harder than usual in context of her customary absence from playable roles that's been the unbudging baseline for nearly forty years.

Who knows the exact impetus for this project, but to me it appears as a belated fulfillment of such a potential premise, and why its reframing and experimentation in the top-down framework of the series carries more weight than whatever new gimmick would've been cooked up for a Link adventure. It's very clearly gendered--how could it not be, from these creatives--but not in a sort of malicious way that sabotages its own concepts; rather, I'm interested and doubly so that the mechanical refreshment for series staples goes hand in hand with a change in protagonist perspective. After so many years of Breath of the Wild informing everything the series was and seemingly aspired to be, even beyond its own margins thanks to its far-reaching influence in game design, a top-down adventure doesn't come off as a regression or a nostalgia angle--instead, I'm looking forward to the spirit of personalized problem-solving that made the formula popular to begin with be recontextualized in a different medium, rather than dreading more of the same.

 

[Kazin]

I also like that they are engaging with the "wisdom" aspect of Zelda herself - they constantly, for decades, have explored Link's "courage" (to the point where, in the Oracle games I'm playing through now, it is well known that the Triforce symbol on Link's hand is an explicit symbol of his courage), but Zelda's wisdom has just been told to us, not really shown. I dunno, I'm not wording it very well, but what I'm getting at is I'm excited for this too. Helps that it looks fun.

 

[Violentvixen]

I still have a voucher to use that expires in November so hoping this is on that program. Also it's so weird how Nintendo announces big things like this but doesn't have them up in the store. I want to wishlist this now dammit.

 

[ThornGhost]

I am very excited for Echoes of Wisdom. Though it carries the art style of the Link's Awakening remake, to me this feels somehow more related to Link Between Worlds. If so, we can maybe begin to see a broader outline for the future of the series as the 2D Zeldas begin to be used more for more rapid experimentation on broader themes that show up in the fully 3D "prestige" titles.

I, and I know others, felt that the first seeds of change that eventually became Breath of the Wild were sewn in LBW. Framed in a familiar structure, it removed gating on the dungeons by allowing the player to just buy whatever items they wanted and heading off to conquer the world in any order. That freeform approach was a proof positive model for the Zelda series going forward. But here's the thing - that's not what they sold the game on. They sold the game on the "flattening" puzzle solving mechanic. The item purchasing was the true experimental payload that the game's gimmick mechanic served as a Trojan Horse for.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some other seemingly innocous mechanic in Echoes of Wisdom besides the item creation that is the true revelation here. Though cool looking, it's obviously a riff on the Zonai device creation in TotK so that's not especially game changing. What else will they be hiding in there?

 

[SpoonyBard]

I honestly bounced off the Link's Awakening remake, I didn't dislike it per-say but I just vastly preferred the original/DX versions. A new game in this style and engine, though, I can get behind.

 

[Patrick]

I also got ALBW vibes from the trailer. I’m looking forward to reading some impressions once it comes out.

 

[Issun]

I honestly bounced off the Link's Awakening remake, I didn't dislike it per-say but I just vastly preferred the original/DX versions. A new game in this style and engine, though, I can get behind.

I enjoyed the LA remake for what it was but it definitely lost the atmosphere of the Gameboy original. The art style itself is great though and, like you, I am happy to see it used for a game that was actually designed around it.

 

[JBear]

to me this feels somehow more related to Link Between Worlds

I also got ALBW vibes from the trailer.

I did as well, and I think that's because the few shots we see seem to hew pretty close to the reinterpretation of the LttP overworld map from that game.

 

[RT-55J]

My wife noticed while watching the trailer that the little trail of triangles behind Tri appear to be your ammo gor using the echo ability --- creating an object moves one of those triangles above the summoned onject, though some things appear to have a greater cost than others.

 

[Exposition Owl]

My wife noticed while watching the trailer that the little trail of triangles behind Tri appear to be your ammo gor using the echo ability --- creating an object moves one of those triangles above the summoned onject, though some things appear to have a greater cost than others.

Wow! Good eye!

 

[ThornGhost]

Yeah, that's a great observation. I was wondering how they were going to limit use since we didn't see a magic meter.

 

[Bongo]

Another limitation, which I thought was clear in the trailer but have encountered people who missed, is that you can't copy just any ol' object, but have to find a special glowy one to serve as the prototype. When it shows acquiring the wooden crate, for example, it's right next to an ordinary one.

 

[Issun]

Also the Twilight Princess Spinner is back!

 

[Falselogic]

Dragon Quest Builders in my Legend of Zelda? That'll work for me.

 

[Paul le Fou]

I'm a little worried about how fiddly the copy ability will or won't become—getting flashbacks to TotK's massive inventory and the slog of navigating it—but I'm excited about everything else, from the LA remake engine to the long-overdue Zelda-As-Protagonist (Although I'm contractually obligated to remind everyone that Age of Calamity, despite being a side-story game, essentially featured Zelda as the protagonist a few years ago)

 

[Sarcasmorator]

I'd say it featured her as a protagonist, not the protagonist. Gameplay wise you had an ensemble. This is the first time (CD-i aside) it's been Zelda really on an adventure of her own, and that's notable.

 

[R.R. Bigman]

Speaking of, it’s nice to get back to classic Triforce Hyrule after three games of Breath’s hackneyed Castle in the Sky ancient tech focused plots.

The story and gameplay of Zelda using items to solve problems and defeat enemies indirectly makes me mourn the missed potential of her using the building mechanics of TotK to fix Hyrule even more. I truly believe Tears of the Kingdom will be looked back on more and more harshly as time passes for all it could have been and done. The Anti Majora’s Mask.

 

[Sarcasmorator]

Yeesh, not a fan, eh?

 

[R.R. Bigman]

For a game I spent over a hundred hours playing, I do not look back on it fondly. Had to get every heart and stamina upgrade. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is a hell of a thing.

I am optimistic for Echoes. Part of the reason the Ultra Hand felt so superfluous in Tears was that it had Breath’s combat system baked in. Why build elaborate battle machines when you can simply dodge at the right time and hit a bad guy a dozen times? That’s not an option this time. Using echoes is the only option, so the game has to be built around it way more than the Ultra Hand was for Tears.

Think about this. How many times did you have to use Ultra Hand in the Final Area of Tears of the Kingdom? Zero. You don’t have to use the new “central mechanic” a single time in the finale of the game. I am certain it won’t be this way for Echoes!

 

[Ludendorkk]

Love the Link's Awakening Switch style and glad it is returning for even more use in an original game. Sad Ryo Nagamatsu left Nintendo because his LA arrangements were astounding and I would have loved to hear a ground-up Zelda soundtrack from him.

Think about this. How many times did you have to use Ultra Hand in the Final Area of Tears of the Kingdom? Zero. You don’t have to use the new “central mechanic” a single time in the finale of the game. I am certain it won’t be this way for Echoes!

I used it constantly and far more than combat throughout the entire game

 

[Bongo]

I was constantly moving stuff in the environment around and sticking them together. Never built anything for fighting, and only rarely bothered with a vehicle, but I often felt a need for a gadget.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

For a game I spent over a hundred hours playing, I do not look back on it fondly. Had to get every heart and stamina upgrade. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is a hell of a thing.

All your problems you describe with the game sounds more like a you-problem than anything inherent in the actual game design lol

 

[Bongo]

Well, it's important to understand one's own tastes, after all.

 

[Sarcasmorator]

I used it constantly and far more than combat throughout the entire game

Yeah, same. I didn't even build anything elaborate. The point of the mechanic, imo, is not that you must use it for more than basic purposes; it is that you can. There's no practical use for a kaiju in the game, but it's still incredible that people make them. The game is made such that nearly every shrine and dungeon you encounter has the materials you need to solve its challenges in one manner, but you may also solve them in any manner that works, and I think there was no other way to do it while also being a game where you can tackle every challenge in basically any order.

And while it was not a part of the last dungeon, it was a major part of every other dungeon. Keeping the last area relatively short was a good move, I think. It's chiefly an environmental navigation/puzzle solving tool, and it does not bother me that they set aside that central mechanic in favor of the all-out duel with Ganon that most players would want at that point (and which is in line with how most other boss fights play out, where the Ultrahand also usually takes a back seat).

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

The final duel with Ganon gave me echoes of Snake Eater, where it’s really a full examination of if you’ve been properly learning ALL the ins and outs of how the combat mechanics work in the game, plus a few curveballs, and it’s awesome.

I have also seen incredible video clips of people just absolutely clapping Ganon-ass using ultra-hand. And it’s just kinda proof to me that the game allows the player so much freedom, and you’re only really limited by your own imagination.

 

[Issun]

Not that it's happened yet, but with TotK being barely over a year old, it would probably be good to keep spoilers for it under spoiler tags, if any find their way into one's posts.

 

[LBD_Nytetrayn]

Just share what I said on Twitter here...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1803949280392003836

 

[SpoonyBard]

 

[gogglebob]

I like how the push/pull wand will allow for some classic Legend of Zelda puzzle gameplay (I'm talking about block puzzles).

I also like that we have a new Zelda game releasing in a little under two months, and I still have no real idea how this is going to "feel".

 

[Kirin]

Kinda cool how they’re clearly taking stuff from both recent and old entries in the series and just… mooshing it all together to see what happens.