The Jojo's Bizarre Threadventure - I get THAT reference

[Johnny Unusual]

I think it's a series that actually starts to pull together in the end, despite weirdly ending on a bonus story (which is the same as the manga). I feel like it finds itself thematically. And I like it has the balls that the final fight is a body swap story, which you NEVER do to your last shounen fight. Usually it's "OK, the hero and the villain are fighting on all cylinders" and then there's only a little bit at the end and it's a weird, loopy story. I like this as a choice.

Giorno never pans out, though. Neither does "The Boss". I really like his gimmick when he first arrives (I would love that ringtone) but when his whole thing is revealed, he's kind of a cross between Kira (in that he's more about maintaining a status quo rather than some ambitious win) and Dio but never quite lands as a full character (I think it would have worked better if maybe we had more time to imply that Diavolo really cares for Doppo. I think he actually does but then I think Doppo's death Diavolo's actions afterward would have had more weight.) I like the villain's final fate. I feel like Araki is good at this for the most part; the first Dio death where actually killing Jonathan messes with his final escape (I mean, until it doesn't in part 3), making Kars immortality a living Hell, Kira having completed his life in anonymity (and being torn apart by a bunch of hands). And now Diavolo can only see terrible terrible futures he can avoid only to get to the next terrible terrible future.

But yeah, I agree that the individual elements are better than the whole. It's also my least favourite and Giorno is the least interesting lead.

Stone Ocean has a few flaws but I definitely think it's a far better arc. Like the last one, it also gets really nasty but it's also really ambitious and feels like it has a better handle on it's themes early on. Also I think Araki finally makes stronger female characters by basically writing them much more similarly to male characters. I also think that the last arc is a fucking ride, especially knowing that afterwards there's three more (as yet unanimated) Jojo arcs. I'm VERY curious as to your reaction to it. (Also one of the most satisfying main villain defeats, in my opinion).

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

capped off with an episode and a half spent on a flashback, after the big bad is defeated, to something that could have been flashbacked to at any point previously.

That whole sequence is a little confusing, but I've really come around on it. It's a distillation and more overt exploration of the themes of that part of JoJo. It's been a while so I can't really explain it well/do it justice. But it's probably JoJo at some of its most interesting to me.

Giorno never pans out, though.

Yeah, I feel like that is a thing like half the time with JoJos. Either they're not that interesting, or they get overshadowed by all the other stuff going on/side stories. And it definitely feels like Araki might know that intuitively based on how he balances how much time gets spent focusing on each protagonist.

 

[SpoonyBard]

A few episodes into Stone Ocean and I'm already liking it a lot more than Golden Wind. Jolene is such a better protagonist than Giorno I almost got whiplash. Her powers also feel much more grounded, while still having just enough, and not too much, of that good ol' Jojo bullshit. And story setting and main thrust of this part's story, a bit Orange is the New Black a bit Shawshank Redemption, is much stronger than Golden Wind's 'I wanna run the mob' story.

Some character designs really made me go 'huh' though, like Jolene's lawyer being an elf for some reason.

 

[JBear]

Some character designs really made me go 'huh' though, like Jolene's lawyer being an elf for some reason.

I mean, I feel like, broadly speaking, you could call fully a quarter of the characters that Araki draws "an elf for some reason" by the Stone Ocean era, if we're just going by ear pointiness.

My first thought when it comes to weirdo character designs for Stone Ocean is definitely the warden, though.

 

[Johnny Unusual]

I love hiw this character appears a couple times and that's it. Never does anything important.

 

[SpoonyBard]

And that's Stone Ocean, and currently all of Netflix's Jojo anime, done.

And, uh, huh.

I was really liking Stone Ocean, pretty much all the way up until Weather Forecast started turning people into snails, and it started to lose me from there. Poochie's big plan and backstory didn't vibe with me, and I'm still not super clear how it exactly ended. Like, I knew a universal reset was coming even before watching it, but I was hoping it would be explained at least a little clearer. But lol Araki I guess.

Still, overall much more solid than Golden Wind.

So, a general question, I know from Steel Ball Run and onward the series takes place in an alternate timeline. Is it the same timeline that Stone Ocean ends on, or is it yet another different one?

(oh and I very much enjoyed ending the last episode once more with Roundabout, well done)

 

[Johnny Unusual]

So, a general question, I know from Steel Ball Run and onward the series takes place in an alternate timeline. Is it the same timeline that Stone Ocean ends on, or is it yet another different one?

According to Araki, Jojo 7-9 take place in an alternate timeline which is not the Irene timeline. Apparently, he uses that timeline to make stand rules a little more consistent but in all honesty, I can't tell you if that's true or not.

But basically, this is the end of the original universe Jojo tales. There are a few smaller things set in it like more Rohan stories, Dead Man's Question (I won't spoil which character this is about but it's a three chapter mini about a ghost) and the "not written by Araki" Jojo manga series Crazy Diamond's Demonic Heartbreak where Josuke is forced to team up with Hol Horse.

 

[SpoonyBard]

In that case it's pretty weird he went through the trouble to A) make Part 6 end on an alternate timeline, B) have Part 7 and onward take place on an alternate timeline, but not have A lead into B. But I guess weird stuff like that is just part of the series so whatevs.

I've heard of those other stories and gosh and dang do I want an animated version of that last one. Because then there'd be a non-zero chance we'd get another version of the best Jojo ending song.

 

[Torzelbaum]

So then which timeline is this JoJo from?

 

[Johnny Unusual]

So then which timeline is this JoJo from?

Horny lady art collective that dreams of when men can make eggs with men.

 

[SpoonyBard]

That actually raises an obvious question...

What the hell is up with Jotaro's hair-hat??

 

[Torzelbaum]

That actually raises an obvious question...

What the hell is up with Jotaro's hair-hat??

That's the true power of his Stand.

 

[Sarcasmorator]

one of my favorite bits, iirc, is when the hat comes off and just still has the hair on it and he also has the same hair and it's never explained or acknowledged in any way

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

In that case it's pretty weird he went through the trouble to A) make Part 6 end on an alternate timeline, B) have Part 7 and onward take place on an alternate timeline, but not have A lead into B.

IIRC Part 7 was envisioned initially as a completely separate thing, just with lots of thematic echoes of JoJo. Very similar to how originally, "Star Trek: Enterprise" was just called "Enterprise" and got retroactively called "Star Trek" after a while b/c oops what were we thinking getting rid of this priceless branding when it's still very much a Star Trek thing.

 

[SpoonyBard]

After thinking about the series for a few days, I'd rate my favorites thusly:

6th: Golden Wind
5th: Phantom Blood
4th: Stone Ocean
3rd: Stardust Crusaders
2nd: Battle Tendency
1st: Diamond is Unbreakable

I actually had a huge effort post partially written in this reply window and was about to go finish it but the draft has been deleted. Guess they only save for a set period of time? So oh well! I'm just dropping my rankings with no added context!

(I will at least note, though, that places 2, 3, and 4 are all effectively tied for second)

 

[Johnny Unusual]

I think it's a little less close for me but it's kind of the same for me. The positively crazy Stone Ocean barely overtakes Phantom Blood, though. Phantom Blood is much more simple storytelling but that's also part of the charm. It's nice to see a concise shounen story and there are some classic memed moments than that (more than "It's me Dio" for me is "GOODYE JOJO" and Speedwagon looking at his watch. But Stone Ocean's ambition, though occasionally exceeding it's grasp, is great and the fact that Araki has trouble writing women characters is helped that the women in Stone Ocean are basically hot mess weirdos like the other Jobros (and are much more interesting than most of the Golden Wind cast).

I like the defeat of the main villain of Stone Ocean, too, So satisfying. Though Jolyne primes the pump, I kind of like that the show is willing to not have her win but instead put that victory into the hands of the weakest (though brave) character. It's also the first Jojo since that first that not only kills the lead, but also the most popular Jojo,

Diamond is Unbreakable really feels like he took all the lessons from Stardust Crusaders, an epic, fun and inventive take on the shounen gauntlet arc and made a lot of the fights a bit more like puzzles and then used Diamond to really try some things out. Diamond is the hangout show version of Jojo. I love that Josuke's first instinct on meeting a space alien, an unprecedented event in his life and a fact that should rock our understanding of life, is "how can I fuck with Rohan and make some money". And there's an entire arc where he decides to cheat the lottery.

Battle Tendency is second for me because it is very brief and Joseph is a very good character. I put Josuke slightly above him (they initially tried to make him a gentle guy with rage issues but I'm glad they settled more on "Boy next door goofball... with rage issues") but Joseph is an all timer.

Golden Wind has a lot of stuff I like but as a whole it doesn't hold together. The last story that takes place before the series feels like Araki rethought the series thesis half-way through and decided to retool and the story was part of that. I like Doppio as a thing but Diavolo feels like Araki tried to bring in the best bits of Dio and Kira (as well as an Antichrist angle) but it's not quite as good as either, as unique as his defeat is.

I think I came around on Jotaro on rewatching it. I think initially I was put off by replacing a character like Joseph with a cool, unstoppable badass but looking back, he really is a character who is also played for laughs. Mostly his badassery also works comedically because it's ridiculous how much he doesn't lose his cool unless he's beating someone up and I realize Araki understands the comedic potential in this (it's also pretty funny that he's lacking socially and as observant as he is, doesn't always catch onto other people. There was a really good article I read from an autistic fan that makes the case Jotaro is actually on the spectrum).

 

[Johnny Unusual]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1820789462013509859

 

[Torzelbaum]

There was a really good article I read from an autistic fan that makes the case Jotaro is actually on the spectrum)

Do you mean this article?

https://moontheoretist.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F186200874151

 

[Johnny Unusual]

That's the one

 

[SpoonyBard]

I was wondering when we'd start seeing some news of Part 7.

Even the Shonen Jump app still only has up to Stone Ocean, it looks like it's posting SO chapters bit by bit so maybe it'll eventually hit Steel Ball Run. Whichever one happens first I'm looking forward to more Jojo.

 

[Sarcasmorator]

Stone Ocean is on a drip because it's treated essentially as a new serialization, chapters published as they're done. Any future releases likely the same way; can't localize a 17-volume arc all at once.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Yeah that makes sense, I figured a long running series would have been caught up ages ago but I guess I was wrong. Ah well, no big deal, Stone Ocean is very close to the end as it stands so once Steel Ball Run does start up in the app I'll happily start reading it.

 

[Sarcasmorator]

When a long-running series is only picked up many years into the run, it takes a long time to catch up! I think Viz had only put out the Stardust Crusaders arc in single volumes before the hardcover releases began.

 

[Johnny Unusual]

The Seventh Seal has been lifted!

 

[SpoonyBard]

Didn't Araki previously imply the Steel Ball Run continuity does not take place in the reset world following Stone Ocean? This teaser seems to imply that it does.

Well whatever. More Jojo!

 

[Johnny Unusual]

Didn't Araki previously imply the Steel Ball Run continuity does not take place in the reset world following Stone Ocean?

If by imply you mean straight up said, yeah. The original universe ends with the original universe being done and though no detail is gone into, the curse of the Jojo name is done there. The Steel Ball Run universe runs through the next three series.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Wait I just thought of how it can work and keep with what Araki said. He said Steel Ball Run doesn't continue in the new timeline that Stone Ocean ends on, but time resets twice at the end of it. The counter in the teaser only resets once, so clearly Steel Ball Run takes place in the in-between timeline.

Or not. This is Jojo after all.