Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
If there's one thing that Gargoyles does, its use Star Trek actors. Frakes is so fuckin' great as the show's Lex Luthor.
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The Human Adventure Continues: Talking About Star Trek
- Thread starter Johnny Unusual
- Start date
For the applicable, and just in case anybody hasn't heard yet:
Lower Decks Season 1 went up internationally on Amazon Prime. I believe it should all be there. It's a little frenetic at first, but it really comes into its own, I hope you guys like it!
Lower Decks Season 1 went up internationally on Amazon Prime. I believe it should all be there. It's a little frenetic at first, but it really comes into its own, I hope you guys like it!
I got to "Paradise", a DS9 episode that always bothered me. Maybe it's because it's another episode about a technology-free utopia*, a well that Star Trek writers love to dip into. Maybe it's the fact that the villain never receives any comeuppance. She's basically browbeaten the people in her community into obeying her philosophies, and they're all okay with it in the end?
Then I found this review, which cast an abhorrent light on the episode.
Then I found this review, which cast an abhorrent light on the episode.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
That's a good article and I'm glad you linked it.
But she gets arrested at the end of the episode and will probably spend the rest of her life in prison? That isn't comeuppance? What did you want to have happen?
I don't really have a problem with this episode/don't really think it's problematic. Sisko and O'Brien stumble upon a commune in the middle of nowhere, and it quickly becomes clear she's full of shit. Her basically preaching Nazi rhetoric about how work frees people and gives people purpose is the early giveaway, but as soon as the sweatbox shows up, that's the viewers primary clue that this is place is bullshit and Alixus is bullshit. Things are unsettling because they're supposed to be unsettling, that's the point of the episode.
At the end, most everyone decides to stay where they're at, but they acknowledge that things are going to change and they'll have to decide as a collective where to go from here, rather than just blindly take marching orders. These are people who were forced here against their will, but removing them against their will doesn't solve anything/prove any moral superiority either. And these people are essentially brainwashed cult members, it takes time and patience to un-brainwash them, I don't think it's particularly realistic if they suddenly all decided to recant their values at the end of the episode just for the sake of a tidy ending.
Something I don't think is begin given any acknowledgement is the context of the episode when it aired either. This episode came out less than a year after Waco, Texas. And a big part of how this episode resolves is, to me, a rebuke to how the government handled that scenario. Which was to go in guns blazing, and back the cultists into a corner where a bunch of them died meaninglessly including a lot of innocent victims. How Sisko handled things at the end of this episode is very much a de-escalation of tensions and helping the cultists begin making decisions for themselves, and a rebuke of how the US Government handled Waco. And the whole episode is an examination of such cults and how certain charismatic psychopaths can attract and gain loyal followers.
It occurred to me that the way Alixus ran the community was like the penal colony on Rura Penthe: "There is no stockade. No guard tower. No electronic frontier. Only a magnetic shield prevents beaming. [...] Work well, and you will be treated well. Work badly, and you will die."
And so I give you this:
And so I give you this:
TAS is delightful and I wish more people would watch it
Remember the time where Rom almost died because he masturbated too much?
"It's not cheating if it's a hologram of your wife" - Tom Paris
...hmm. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM yeah, pretty interesting hill to die on, Voyager. That episode was dumb all around (let's let Jeri Ryan ham it up as The Doctor, meanwhile, TUVOK ANGRY HORNY [which I feel like they did an episode on earlier but I'm misremembering]) but season 7 has overall been actually kinda good, or at least tolerable? Which is not what I expect from Voyager honestly. It's W e I rD
...hmm. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM yeah, pretty interesting hill to die on, Voyager. That episode was dumb all around (let's let Jeri Ryan ham it up as The Doctor, meanwhile, TUVOK ANGRY HORNY [which I feel like they did an episode on earlier but I'm misremembering]) but season 7 has overall been actually kinda good, or at least tolerable? Which is not what I expect from Voyager honestly. It's W e I rD
The Pon Farr gets brought up a couple times in Voyager. One time through a delusional day-dream of The Doctor's where he gets to play the hero when Tuvok suddenly goes berserk in the middle of one of his operatic performances and he sooths Tuvok into submission with his song. Another time, a different Vulcan on the ship gets his Pon Farr (and subsequently manages to psychically infect B'Elanna with the Pon Farr as well!) and Tuvok councils the parties involved on the event. There's probably more, but that's just off the top of my head.
I actually love the Pon Farr. It's so dumb but also amazing. Anytime Star Trek creates a dumb sci-fi scenario to give their otherwise stoic characters reasons to let their actors do something different and chew at the scenery is generally a good time. It's also hilarious that a species like the Vulcans have to be compelled by a biological, evolutionary mechanism to procreate because without it they'd probably die out as a species because they're SO LOGICAL. It's a hilarious twist on the usual fantasy trope of elves generally being a declining species on the path to extinction because they just never have babies.
Christopher Plummer died!
He, of course, was General Chang, the villain in my fave trek movie.
Great scene.
Azetbur is considering options to recover the peace summit after the assassination of her father, which was pinned on Kirk. Her counselors are advising war. Chang is in the background, in shadows listening to the debate...
Azetbur - no, that was not what my father believed in
Chang, chimes in from the shadows - ...your father was killed for what he believed in.
CHILLING
He, of course, was General Chang, the villain in my fave trek movie.
Great scene.
Azetbur is considering options to recover the peace summit after the assassination of her father, which was pinned on Kirk. Her counselors are advising war. Chang is in the background, in shadows listening to the debate...
Azetbur - no, that was not what my father believed in
Chang, chimes in from the shadows - ...your father was killed for what he believed in.
CHILLING
Very accomplished actor, I expect the evening news will talk about The Sound of Music instead, but yeah. To me he's Chang. Him having less exaggerated Klingon features was really about Plummer not wanting to deal with as much makeup/wanting his face to be more recognizable. But I always loved it because it was such a delightful wrinkle that the Klingon that looks most human, and lovingly quotes Shakespeare, is the one who despises humans the most/is trying to start a war with the UFP. It's a subtle little bit of commentary about how wars and strife are less about our differences and more about people being obstinate and close-minded. Undiscovered Country is the platonic ideal of Star Trek, and it's made so much richer by the S-tier villain-job Plummer does in it.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
And you still have the best ahead of you. It's called "Sub Rosa"...
I still enjoy that sorta two-parter a lot. I know it handles that particular range of mental illness in a very 90s way, but I enjoyed his performance. He played a character with a similar past but reformed [its complicated but ends well] in Babylon 5. I'd have liked that sort of character on Voyager to reflect the nebulous nature of the Delta quadrant - provided he was allowed to develop over time. Although it probably wouldn't have fit well with the general audience nature of the show.
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Season 1 of TNG sucks, but it also has an episode where brain worms take over Starfleet and a guy gets lasered in the head until it explodes. So it's not all bad, just MOSTLY. Obviously you saw Journey to Africa Planet™, which sucks and is racist, and there's a misogynist episode coming up soon called Angel One that is equally as bad? Maybe? They both suck. Recommend skipping, for sure. Season 2 is starts to find it's groove but is still awkward, season 3 is Where Actual TNG Starts™ and then that's kinda the Star Trek template until 2005 or whatever. So yeah, it's still gonna be a while till you get to The Real Shit™
Brad Dourif's character is emblematic of Voyager; a good idea with bad execution. That's been the one throughline for the entire show. It's probably because I've watched it in chunks over...like, at least a year? I don't even remember. But the entire show is just so forgetable, yet memorable at the same time? There's a s7 episode where Chakotay time travels through past episodes of Voyager and I'm like "oh yeah I remember that!" but it's also, like, I remember roughly 12 seconds of every episode. I'll remember an episode's general premise, but nothing about it. Thinking of the show as a whole, it's all a weird haze of bits and pieces of episodes, and the few stand out excellent ones. It's not bad, it's just like...not great, either. It seems impossible I've watched seven seasons of it.
Brad Dourif's character is emblematic of Voyager; a good idea with bad execution. That's been the one throughline for the entire show. It's probably because I've watched it in chunks over...like, at least a year? I don't even remember. But the entire show is just so forgetable, yet memorable at the same time? There's a s7 episode where Chakotay time travels through past episodes of Voyager and I'm like "oh yeah I remember that!" but it's also, like, I remember roughly 12 seconds of every episode. I'll remember an episode's general premise, but nothing about it. Thinking of the show as a whole, it's all a weird haze of bits and pieces of episodes, and the few stand out excellent ones. It's not bad, it's just like...not great, either. It seems impossible I've watched seven seasons of it.
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I didn't like season one of TNG much until I watched the entire Original Series. Then something clicked and I enjoy how undefined it is. Except the sexist and racist stuff you rightly point out in some episodes - particularly 'Code of Honor.' Ugh, though I find the awkward stuff charming.
Any way, Angel One... I wish I'd known Jonathan Frakes [CMDR Riker] was once a soap opera actor upon first viewing. Explains EVERYTHING. No hate on soaps intended.
Agreed on just about everything said about Voyager. Still find it fun though. Particularly Doc, Seven, and Janeway when mentoring. I WANT A WORLD WHERE TIM RUSS [LT Tuvok] HAD MORE TO DO THOUGH. SUCH WASTED POTENTIAL. *digresses heavily*
Any way, Angel One... I wish I'd known Jonathan Frakes [CMDR Riker] was once a soap opera actor upon first viewing. Explains EVERYTHING. No hate on soaps intended.
Agreed on just about everything said about Voyager. Still find it fun though. Particularly Doc, Seven, and Janeway when mentoring. I WANT A WORLD WHERE TIM RUSS [LT Tuvok] HAD MORE TO DO THOUGH. SUCH WASTED POTENTIAL. *digresses heavily*
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I will always stand up for Sub Rosa. Gates McFadden is killing it with her over the top performance in the episode, and I adore the Troi/Crusher relationship portrayed in it. The episode knows it's a campy paranormal harlequin romance story, and it has a lot of fun with it. Is the story kind of dumb? Yes. Is it substantially more dumb than your average 90s Star Trek episode? I don't really think so.
The thing that bugs me about Sub Rosa is... rapey mcrape ghost didn't have to be so rapey! (And murdery.) He attaches himself to these women for decades, well into advanced old age, so it doesn't really seem to interfere with their lives/he isn't some kind of vampire that kills their hosts. And maybe in Medieval Scotland nobody would have understood his true nature, but in the 24th Century he probably could have just introduced himself as an exotic symbiotic alien, hopped around between different women (or men!), and had a great time with willing participants. Instead, he gets the phaser b/c he's dumb as shit. Begone dumb plasmaghost!
It's also part of several episodes in Season 7 where they tease Bev x Picard like will they, won't they, and then... oops Beverly is basically a non-entity in the movies. Probably the single thing I resent the most about TNG besides Tasha Yar getting killed, and then also not being allowed to come back properly in the show.
It's also part of several episodes in Season 7 where they tease Bev x Picard like will they, won't they, and then... oops Beverly is basically a non-entity in the movies. Probably the single thing I resent the most about TNG besides Tasha Yar getting killed, and then also not being allowed to come back properly in the show.