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The Human Adventure Continues: Talking About Star Trek

Khan has been quite good, recommended. Nice seeing McGivers given a good meaty scene.

I've been watching the Original Series Remastered with a group of friends, a show I've only cherry-picked in the past. There's a lot here I've never seen, and you understand why a lot of the early eps aren't fondly remembered (it's the misogyny).

That said, we were all impressed by Dagger of the Mind, a good, interesting story with some delightful acting choices (van Gelder), a cool female character allowed to do shit (Dr. Noel), the extremely rare inter-character flirtation done in a fun way (this shit has to have ignited the fledgling fanfic community at the time), and a ton of great lines ("such agony, to be empty"). Good stuff. The remaster also continues to impress with the lighting, the color, and the light hand on SFX.

Lot of good ones between now and the end of the season to look forward to.
 
Khan has been a fun thing so far. I like it. This week's episode was a little hard to listen to though, and probably deserved a trigger warning.

Dagger of the Mind is a fun episode, but you can also tell it's very much a product of its time where modern psychiatry was in its infancy, and people still didn't trust it.

One of the best parts of TNG (that never gets enough credit) is how differently and progressively (even for today) that show treated psychiatry and mental health. It's lowkey pretty powerful when a strong, stoic, masculine, leader figure like Picard voluntarily and proactively go straight to his counselor to talk out his problems.
 
This week's episode was a little hard to listen to though, and probably deserved a trigger warning.
I thought I should follow up on this since it kinda comes at you without warning, even if the overall tenor of the episode/show at that point is of impending doom:

A gentle, failed augment (no real superpowers or anything) gets infected by a Ceti Eel for the first time. And Khan learns over the course of the episode how they effect people through a horrific series of accidents. He commands this guy to FIGHT to survive while they are trying to make it through the wilderness. Later when he's resting comfortably but still in agony in a hospital bed, his wife comes to console him. And in his messed up state, he's still trying to interpret Khan's survival orders and starts fighting his wife. And the foley work/sound effects of her getting assaulted and beaten to death are fucking horrifying to listen to. If it was that hard for me to listen to, I can't imagine any survivors of domestic abuse or SA would have a good time listening to it either.

It's a very affecting and carefully crafted scene for what is essentially just a radio drama/podcast. But the more I reflect on it, the more I'm like, I don't know what they were thinking making that scene.
 
A new Star Trek show came out today. The promotional material for this show all looked dreadful, but CBS is really really bad at advertising.

I... actually kinda like it so far! The Doctor is delightful. The new Captain is interesting. And the kiddos are mostly fun. First two episodes are out already, with the 1.25hr premier free on YouTube (as is tradition)


^Gonna need a VPN to watch this if you're outside the US. (As is tradition)
 
Hearing from some advance reviews that the first few episodes are perfectly serviceable “teens in space”, but the Star Trek *really* kicks in around eps 4-5, so I’m excited to see where this goes. Also Tawny Newsome (Lower Decks’ Mariner) wrote one of those episodes.
 
Felt pretty Star Treky to me already after the first two. Teens in space part had me more than a little worried. I couldn't help but imagine the Scrubs soft-reboot they did after the original show ended where it turned into a med school show, with the main cast occasionally guest starring as instructors and such. Anyone who remembers that knows how dreadful that was. This is thankfully not that.

Something I like about this show is that already two episodes deep, I feel like they're doing a better job of exploring the 32nd Century as a setting way better than Discovery had. Discovery was always a little too busy being neck-deep in an ongoing plot to kinda stop and smell the roses. To me, it feels more like SFA (I'm gonna call it that from now on and nobody can convince me otherwise) can explore this stuff better.

Tawny is getting producer credit as well, and she was there in the writer's room the entire time so I'm sure she's had more say/influence than just one script. She's a pretty hardcore fan too, so I don't have any worry about things being wrong or inaccurate.

Oh. Worth noting. The ship/academy's first officer is half-Klingon, half-Jem'Hadar, and she's delightful. Definitely stealing the spotlight every time she's on screen.
 
Something I like about this show is that already two episodes deep, I feel like they're doing a better job of exploring the 32nd Century as a setting way better than Discovery had. Discovery was always a little too busy being neck-deep in an ongoing plot to kinda stop and smell the roses. To me, it feels more like SFA (I'm gonna call it that from now on and nobody can convince me otherwise) can explore this stuff better.
It kind of reminds me of how Chabon created the Qowat Milat to justify a samurai elf character, but Discovery actually gave them an interesting role in Unification III.

So far I'm liking the show. I think in the run up, a lot of people worried it was going to be too much like Discovery because it's based in 32nd century, and it's not Discovery, but it's also not not like Discovery. It's like Discovery mixed with Lower Decks and Prodigy? Sometimes feels like it's moving pretty fast through stuff, which makes sense for the pilot, but the second episode felt like it skipped a scene or two to jump to the drama.

I'm here for the random goofy stuff like the Exocomp Almond Basket getting offended by everyone pushing them out of their seat ("Wow!"), but I could do with less hijinks. Forcing the two guys to room together is one thing, but adding the Betazed brother into the mix was maybe a bit much.

But yeah, the main kids work well, and Nahla, Lura and the Doctor are great, so I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.
 
Checking out the pilot. Dig it. Holly Hunter is great. Giamatti is great. Also the fact Stephen Miller is against makes me like it more
 
Ok, so we're 8 episodes deep into Starfleet Academy as of today. And I really cannot emphasize how much of a pleasant surprise this show continues to be. Some episodes are better than others, but all of them have been pretty enjoyable. The last few weeks have been startlingly so. Paul Giamatti -- to the surprise of nobody -- does Paul Giamatti things and absolutely crushes it as a villain and steals every scene he's in. Holly Hunter has been a fascinating lead and is immediately putting her mark on the franchise. Robert Picardo has still got it. All of the cadets have been both surprisingly lovable and interesting, even the ones I initially pegged as obnoxious. This week's episode, they brought back Tilly for a guest star role, and she was probably better here than all of Discovery put together. (A joyous experience; I always believed in you!)

This show is just legitimately good. It's not perfect, but it's both imminently enjoyable, and is staying fully true to the core of what makes Star Trek, Star Trek. And the best part is that all of the teen drama has not just been endurable, but actually pretty solid and fun. They're managing to do all of the things the franchise wanted to do with characters like Wesley, but actually pulling it off.

I've got more than a few nitpicks, and there are going to be some creative choices that some fans will have a hard time looking past, but if you go into the show with an open mind, and remember that hey, this is a show about teenagers learning to become adults, you'll be shocked at how much fun you have with it. Please give SFA a shot! Steal it if you gotta.
 
Yeah we’re a couple eps behind right now but I’ve been enjoying it a lot. Excited for Tilly times!
 
Watched three episodes of Starfleet Academy, two Giamatti eps and the DS9 one. I'm glad this show exists and is going for its own thing, the Trek universe is a really fun one and I enjoy any attempt to explore it more.

This cast is also very good, the costumes and sets look fucking fantastic (and are well-lit for once), and simply having this variety of species around in every scene kicks ass. Gives me DS9 sometimes in the thoughtless diversity of a future society.

I'm gonna put anything that might involve a criticism in a spoiler block, these are just a million random thoughts I had watching the three best-rated eps of SA so far:

I'm kind of alone on this but I like The Burn as a concept, despite how quickly it was forgotten in Disco. I think it puts the Federation in an interesting situation where they have to rebuild and reshape and evolve. I like that they have pirates and pillagers rampant, things like the Emerald Chain, countless isolated societies that must be sold on the premise of the Federation. It makes the galaxy unknown again, which, at the end of Picard, seemed so so thoroughly explored and studied and it held no more surprises.

All that said, I don't reeeeeeeeeally enjoy watching the show much - the humor doesn't land, the story is pretty blah, the drama is too obvious, the action feels bad - but there's a ton I do like scattered about, and I think most importantly it has fun and tries shit, there's experimentation here. Like Discovery, everything is in place here to tell a good story, it just requires a good script to be allowed to survive the vetting process. My worry is that, like Discovery, they have some directive to keep it a light action show, and thus you'll never get a decent story told.

One thing I struggle with is the vibe of this, Discovery, S31, the Abrams movies, that really really prioritize keeping everything moving at all cost. I feel like there is this belief by the brand owners that "Star Trek is boring" and they have over-corrected by never having two characters interact in one place for longer than a 30 seconds. This means we get really blunt character work and there is zero room for subtlety, and I just gotta accept that that's what this show is.

I'm going to continue keeping an eye on reviews to see if any eps are particularly well-regarded and just watch those.

  • Holly Hunter is very good! I'm still real pissed about Mary Wiseman being sidelined but Hunter does do a great job. She captures the energy of this show nicely while having in my opinion the best scenes, where she's allowed to have an adult conversation with someone and it sorta feels a little Star Trekky for a bit. Her being quirky isn't overdone (yet) and just generally adds a little flavor.

  • I was a little worried about what I'd heard of Giamatti's performance - how it sounded like he didn't take the role/show seriously - but I liked it a lot, it feels right that the character loves to hear himself talk and berate and argue, which is very tellerite (or klingerrite). Holly Hunter has great chemistry with him, lot of fun to watch. The heaping dollop of toxic masculinity feels right for him too, also very piratey. Like with Hunter, he meets the energy of the show well.

  • I like Sam's whole deal, particularly that she's an AI that is excited to explore other forms of life. She has Data's curiosity. The idea of creating a 17 year old teenager mired in self-doubt and anxiety for the purposes of exploring is very thoughtlessly cruel to Sam, which is very funny and revealing of how little the AI understand organic life. Great idea.

  • I like Kraag a lot, Karim Diane has a really nice way about him that makes it real fun to watch. I like the idea of his character, something I've wanted from a klingon character for a while, one who interprets the tired klingon tropes in a different way. We got a dab of this with J.G. Hertzler's lawyer character in Enterprise, of strength and bravery and honor being applied outside of warfare.

  • Like with Discovery and S31 the intro sequence and song don't do a ton for me, they're really meandering and overburdened. I feel like if you can't hum it it might not be a great theme.

  • Liked that moment where the Doctor appears after having seen that everyone's "catecholamine stress levels were spiking" and appeared to see what was going on. Something that is very Trek in that the technology of monitoring everyone's biology at all times is incredibly dystopian in the wrong hands, but this is a society build foundationally on trust, and thus it can be used to ensure everyone is protected while also being free. I doubt this will ever be explored to any degree but whatever, it's a great detail.

  • Caleb is to me a blank slab whose entire deal is his trauma and I dunno, I just am not super interested. Kira and Ro were buried in trauma but that wasn't everything they were, they wanted things and tried things. I'm sure that will develop with him in time but ugh, boring.

  • The Venari Ral marauder rocks, cool-looking future ship, same with the Athena. That said you get one clearish shot of the marauder and then never again will you be able to parse anything about either ship in this episode. Very Discovery in that way.

  • Lura Thok is fun to watch, Gina Yashere as expected nails it. Any time you're in doubt that Star Trek has the worst wastoid fandom you need simply look up their current hysterical talking point and yep, they're extremely wrong again. Particularly enjoyed her scene in sickbay.

  • Their idea to modulate an actor's voice, ever, under any circumstances, is insane and always a bad idea.

  • It is fucking cah-razy that the Athena just blows up the marauder with a trio of cheery quips, vaporizing all hands. Very Voyager.

  • Cirroc Lofton absolutely kills it, worth watching for his scenes. He and the writers did a good job with this, and it's a very fraught subject for Trek everyone was nervous the brand would fumble. They wisely let Tawny Newsome and the writer's room take this and go their own way with it. She was also quite good in this episode as a professor, looking forward to seeing more of her.

  • The drama in this one with Sam is rough, they have a very threadbare storyline about how she is considered an "Emissary" between the AIs and the organics, and how she has to understand what that means in relation to Ben Sisko's whole thing with the Prophets. I loved DS9 but I definitely did not like 90% of the Emissary plotline, particularly later in the game, so I wasn't nuts about that being a lot of the focus rather than everything he built throughout the show that was real. It's hard to say Emissaries have no choices when so much of the DS9 Emissary plotline was "oh we don't really know what the Prophets mean so I guess we should just do what we feel like". Also god, I can't believe the Pah Wraiths happened.

  • Loved that little scene in the hall with the other AI going up to Sam with reverence, pretty interested in what's going on with them, since AIs are rarely something Trek takes an interest in beyond being a Monster of the Week.

  • I liked the whole dynamic between the stuck up dude and Holly Hunter, I theoretically liked the scene with the forced truths but didn't like any of the comedy. He also just acts dumb so drama can happen. One of those moments where I started getting pulled in by a good exchange between them and the show immediately reminded me they don't do that kind of shit here.

  • The spoon-feeding is DIRE. There's a ton of lore to have to dump on the audience for them to understand all this DS9 biz but goddddddddddddddd scene after scene of words flying around to make a storybook depiction of a seven-season show, targeted at teens, with every interaction being summarized and re-stated to make sure the viewer paying 20% attention got it, gets it, ugggh. The constant need to say what just happened clearly, then say it once again, is very hard to suffer through.

  • The visual noise suckssss this is part of what makes this show kind of unpleasant to watch for me, shit never stops moving.

  • The decision to make Sam get wasted is fun, but I think the writers thought was way way funnier than it was. Just make her 50% wasted and let her slip a bunch, that's way better for character work, since she's not just slurring nonsense she's saying stuff without inhibitions.

  • Sorta sucks that The Doctor is nothing but an occasional comic relief. Hopefully they change that as they go, I suppose they will, but they're in no rush to do anything like that. Jet Reno is sadly in the same boat.

  • The AI overlords are grating because they're so dramatic and crazy and unreasonable, a little depth would be nice. But I do really like that we have an AI faction in the far future, there's a lot of meat on the bone there conceptually.

  • Largely like the flirting, especially with Klaarg and Genesis. This is something you don't get much of in Trek and it fits real nicely in this show, as it did in Lower Decks.

  • Love that really shitty vulcan dude and his romulan friend from the War College. I skipped a bunch of episodes so they might be worse than they seem but they're a good bit of sour energy to this.

  • Hearing Avery Brooks was a gut punch, loved it.

  • As corny as the scene between Caleb and the betazoid Tarima was, I liked that it involved her psychic powers and the issues of privacy that bring without doing what TNG would've done and explaining it to death before having incredibly wooden romance.

  • Sets and costumes look amazing.

  • Giamatti is a complete delight, love watching him deliver this dialogue. He actually feels like he is of this universe. He is believably cruel and ugly in his manner of doing shit. Watching him turn the knife whenever given the option, again, he loves to hear himself talk. Very piratey, great fit for the post-Burn world.

  • The camerawork in this makes me want to die, as does the decision to superimpose a floating ghost head over on the main alien's face, just have some confidence in the prosthetics. Also, if you're on a dark scene, that doesn't mean it has to be pitch black with big-ass spotlights randomly placed around the background.

  • Even in individual conversations the camera is shifting in and out of focus and zooming in and out and aaauggghh fucking stoppp

  • Action is pretty viscerally unpleasant to watch. Lighting is too dark, camera cannot frame anything, shit's too tight and close, you don't get any sense of the room or the space before the combat happens, so you're just drifting through random spaces in time.

  • These evil cannibal aliens, the Furies, suuuuuuck, reminds me of how boring and sci-fi channel-ass the Drakh were in Babylon 5 when they showed up late in the run. I remember Discovery doing this all the time, like with Saru's homeplanet, where the bad guy aliens are actual fucking wraiths or orcs, come on guys. I know Trek has a history of bad guy aliens but christ, please, put a little work into it. They are described as "always being in pain" and "splooging it over everyone" which like, I'm supposed to take these guys seriously? The problem with reavers like this being all over the place in the post-Burn universe is that there's just not much too them.

  • The Klaarg / Unnamed Handsome White Guy romance is very cute still. It's incredibly obvious and heavy-handed but whatever. There is no fucking way this guy does not die tragically for some small modicum of drama before the season's out.

  • Nice seeing a betazoid getting something cool to do, always felt like they should've expanded their powers out a bit, since there's so few psychic species in Trek.

  • Grinding my teeth as B'Avi, a promising new character with a little bit of grey to his background, is killed off immediately for being "too sullied to redeem" in a very Discovery move. Bleh.
 
My
Ok, so we're 8 episodes deep into Starfleet Academy as of today. And I really cannot emphasize how much of a pleasant surprise this show continues to be. Some episodes are better than others, but all of them have been pretty enjoyable. The last few weeks have been startlingly so. Paul Giamatti -- to the surprise of nobody -- does Paul Giamatti things and absolutely crushes it as a villain and steals every scene he's in. Holly Hunter has been a fascinating lead and is immediately putting her mark on the franchise. Robert Picardo has still got it. All of the cadets have been both surprisingly lovable and interesting, even the ones I initially pegged as obnoxious. This week's episode, they brought back Tilly for a guest star role, and she was probably better here than all of Discovery put together. (A joyous experience; I always believed in you!)

This show is just legitimately good. It's not perfect, but it's both imminently enjoyable, and is staying fully true to the core of what makes Star Trek, Star Trek. And the best part is that all of the teen drama has not just been endurable, but actually pretty solid and fun. They're managing to do all of the things the franchise wanted to do with characters like Wesley, but actually pulling it off.

I've got more than a few nitpicks, and there are going to be some creative choices that some fans will have a hard time looking past, but if you go into the show with an open mind, and remember that hey, this is a show about teenagers learning to become adults, you'll be shocked at how much fun you have with it. Please give SFA a shot! Steal it if you gotta.
My nitpick is: not enough Lura Thok!

Show is fantastic, and real culmination of "new trek" ethos, but does it better then the previous series. Outstanding
 
Season finale of SFA is today. I'll sit on my feelings a bit more before saying anything in depth. But aside from a few corny lines, the finale was immensely enjoyable. A strong finale for a strong first season. I don't know if everyone is going to like this, but I loved it and it's certainly worth everyone at least giving it a try to see if it's their cup of Earl Grey or not.

Season 2 of the show has already finished filming and is now in post production. The cast and crew talked about the wrapping of filming like it was the end of the show, even if the producers are saying optimistic things about continuing beyond that. Hope springs eternal, but I feel like the writing is on the wall with Paramount/CBS's new owners. It'll really be a shame if this show can't get 4 seasons so that we could watch these kids go from freshmen to graduates. It's kind of crazy how likable all of them are.

My nitpick is: not enough Lura Thok!
She's so good in the show, that the people making the show can't have been unaware of it. That she isn't in more of it, and her glaring absence in the last few episodes tells me it probably had more to do with production logistics than anything else. I hear the prosthetic process for her specifically was particularly grueling, so maybe that played a hand in her limited screen time.
 
I liked the finale, thanks largely to focusing a lot of Jet Reno. Really loved seeing her as the teacher and the one in command. Also greatly enjoyed Nahla Ake and Braka, they sold the hell out of the trial scene. I could watch Giamatti and Hunter joust and eat up these scenes all day.

SAM continues to be the best student character, the actor really makes her a delight. I liked all the effects shots, nice seeing them clear enough to parse the action - the bit with the nebula cloud clearing and the hologram fakeout looked great.

I'll put any criticisms behind a block here:

I wish it had more teeth, for as close as it came to getting into something meaty.

I don't think you need to purify things for the audience, you can have Starfleet have had to make costly choices in the post-Burn chaos, you can have Braka's family have been killed due to return fire caused by his father's desperate act, you can have his anger be legitimate and also his choice to become an opportunistic survivalist warlord a failure that should be rejected. You don't need the Federation to be completely blameless, it seems impossible they could've gone through the crisis and done it all perfectly. It can be messy! I'd like for this Federation licking its wounds and getting back on its feet to be a bit messier, it takes time to find stability after survival.

Interested to see where it goes next season, knowing they planned for at least two when they started.
 
Ya'll I started watching Starfleet Academy this weekend, and episode 2 made me cry. So, good job!
 
I wish it had more teeth, for as close as it came to getting into something meaty.

I don't think you need to purify things for the audience, you can have Starfleet have had to make costly choices in the post-Burn chaos, you can have Braka's family have been killed due to return fire caused by his father's desperate act, you can have his anger be legitimate and also his choice to become an opportunistic survivalist warlord a failure that should be rejected. You don't need the Federation to be completely blameless, it seems impossible they could've gone through the crisis and done it all perfectly. It can be messy! I'd like for this Federation licking its wounds and getting back on its feet to be a bit messier, it takes time to find stability after survival.
The whole point of the conflict in the final episode is that Nus Braka is a bad faith actor. He's holding a kangaroo court under the guise of "real justice/democracy" while holding trillions of people hostage who have no say in what he's doing. And he's doing so by creating this false narrative about distrusting a liberal democracy with phony information. The whole scenario is a parable for the purpose of showing what Trumpism looks like in the abstract, and contrasting it with an example of what good faith governance looks like instead. Getting down and dirty with minutia of comparing shades of grey is what Trump & bad faith actors do (and what Nus Braka was trying to do) because the purpose is to obfuscate and excuse their own bad actions/rhetoric by muddying the waters.
 
I'm gutted that the team isn't getting to make another season.
This was not surprising to me in the least, but it still hurts. Apparently, S2 is going to end on a cliffhanger ending as well, so that's gonna suck. The writing has been on the wall though, ever since the Ellisons put their bid in to buy CBS/Paramount. Billionaires don't become billionaires by making compassionate, reasonable decisions and setting aside their egos. They always feel the need to "shake things up" whenever they buy shit.
 
My friend and I have reached season 3 in our watchthrough of TOS. Neither of us had ever seen most of the non-popular episodes.

Holy moly is this show bad. I'll put the rest behind the red visor:

Pretty much every episode is either "It is the natural order that 1960's American Capitalism should succeed over the asian barbarians, by any means necessary", "Kirk is forced by alien intelligence to force himself on a woman without fault, my greatest dream - Gene Rodenberry", or "We fuck around aimlessly for 40 minutes, then reveal a bad alien did it, then kill them". Romance is a thing forced on people by alien wills, yet required by the show, so it is that way 100% of the time (including the famous first biracial kiss scene). If someone shows real true romantic interest, the woman will be killed of in that episode.

We just finished Day of the Dove and boy howdy is it rough to sit here and watch a room full of white men in literal shoe polish blackface for 40 minutes, telling the laziest story possible with this premise.

I think TOS has a handful of choice scenes, good actors, good costuming and effects (for the time), and a few great scripts from guest writers. Everything is a reeeeeal dire. I've come to believe 99.9% of Trek fans who think well of TOS have never watched it, and only saw the best episodes on reruns. People may simply not have even had the means to watch a lot of these episodes until the streaming era, short of them getting the box sets or VHS tapes.

The movies are great and we're eager to get to them. I think one thing that's kept us slogging through S3 is simply that we're in awe of the depths it continues to sink to, it's really quite galling. I understand now why TOS is either not discussed much, or discussed very very very selectively to try to cut around the rot.
 
I've come to believe 99.9% of Trek fans who think well of TOS have never watched it, and only saw the best episodes on reruns. People may simply not have even had the means to watch a lot of these episodes until the streaming era, short of them getting the box sets or VHS tapes.
Philip J Fry described TOS as "79 episodes, about 30 good ones" in Futurama's Star Trek episode -- everyone who watched TOS back in the day knew what was up.

Our culture also had a vastly different relationship with kitsch and camp. Modern audiences often find such things repellant. But that used to be a selling feature back in the 60s-80s because people legitimately enjoyed such things. There's a reason why Roger Moore was allowed to make more Bond movies than anyone else. People actually liked that kinda stuff.

Reruns back in the 70s and 80s also showed every single episode, and they were prolific. And if you liked Star Trek back then, you watched them. Not just because you liked the show, but literally because you didn't have a lot of other options. You only had like 2-4 channels, and you watched whatever was on back then, even if it was 60s scifi slop.

Now, that changed by the 90s, when cable TV became saturated, and TOS reruns gave way to TNG Era reruns. Maybe what you say is the case for some younger parts of the audience these days, but that's not how old heads consumed Star Trek.
 
Mm, I would not call what I'm seeing here kitschy or campy, they are extremely repellent in their racist depictions of asian and native american cultures, their use of shoe polish blackface on actors, and in the explicit intents of many, many of these stories.

I understand the temptation to want original Star Trek to still be okay by some estimation, and nothing will take away those good scripts that got through, but we cannot turn away from the very ugly and dehumanizing elements here.

Sufficed to say, we're really looking forward to putting S3 of TOS behind us and getting to the movies.
 
they are extremely repellent in their racist depictions of asian and native american cultures
Not that you're wrong, but you're also looking at things through a modern lens, and not taking into account the fact that they were showing a peaceful and integrated workplace where Asians and other ethnic minorities were respected and held as equals at a time IRL in the middle of our country's worst race riots. You're more than entitled and right to have mixed feelings and strong criticisms about the content of the show, but you're also completely ignoring the context of a show made 60 years ago.
 
The thing is, yes, the crew of the Enterprise was intended to have a diverse population. But then you get to the planet with the indigenous people and the story turns into a white savior narrative. Or you get to the Kohms and Yangs planet and the Kohms are all Asian people with a brutal totalitarian regime set on the genocide of the Yangs, who are all blonde noble savages. Like, yeah, the crew of the Enterprise is diverse, but the "aliens" they encounter can be a monolithic ethnic group; often a backwards, savage one, that needs to be confronted in some way by our "enlightened" heroes. This went on into TNG, if you remember.

Context only goes so far.
 
I watched the whole show in 2012, I was always at least entertained. I found it campy, which was part of the fun. I like scifi from that time, stories of that type.

It's perfectly possible, that I talk from the position of privilege, that I don't have that clear of an eye for the racist problems (the rapey stuff I do recognize, and can turn a blind eye to - it's 70s scifi, I know it's there). But I do like the show a lot. I understand if you can't, for the problematic stuff. Totally. But if you can look behind that, one can have a lot of fun there, I think.

I don't want to minimize the problems, they are real and bad. Still.
 
Context only goes so far.
Absolutely, context isn't going to magically make shit that's not ok, ok. But it still matters though. Both TOS episodes you bring up are at their core, Prime Directive episodes. The whole point of the Prime Directive, is an anti-colonial message. Spoken pretty bravely in the middle of the escalating Vietnam War, where our leaders had convinced themselves and a good chunk of the population that it was righteous and necessary to side with colonial oppressors and dictate the destiny of other peoples for them.

The Omega Glory's scenario is one where another Starfleet captain (who we repeatedly hear are the people with the most upright and impecable character) sides with the Kohms because he's in too deep and sees only their POV. He spends the entire episode trying to arm them and help them fight. Because he shares a more kindred connection with the more technologically advanced and settled Kohms, and sees the Yangs as the instigators in their conflict, as they initiate regular lethal raids on the Kohms. The whole reveal that the planet is a mirror of Earth, and that the brutal and ignorant Yangs are actually Americans, was not necessarily meant as a "noble savage" allegory first and foremost but to show domestic viewers that our culture is not inherently superior to others, and that we can face dire consequences/extinction if we continue down the path of aggressive warfare and forget the foundational morals of our Republic. A good message, delivered in an unfortunate, short sighted manner.

Paradise Syndrome is absolutely racist for sure. But mostly in that you've got white people misrepresenting indigenous cultures and absolutely bathing in racist tropes. (Same with Code of Honor -- which has way less of an excuse, made two decades after TOS and the Civil Rights Era, among active protestations from people within the production.) And yet if you remove those tropes and colorblind the script, there are still Prime Directive stories here. If Paradise Syndrome was instead about Kirk landing in say, a facsimile of colonial New England, and him and Miramanee ended up persecuted for witchcraft at the hands of a bible thumping mob, I don't think anyone would have a problem with the episode (or at least this problem) and it could still have all of the same plot beats and story themes. The core of the episode -- the personal cost of becoming emotionally entangled in a place you shouldn't be -- is in spirit very similar to other beloved episodes like The City on the Edge of Forever.

I'm not saying anyone should forgive or ignore the shortcomings of these or any other episodes in old Trek. It's good we talk about these shortcomings and how things have and have not changed in the last 60 years. But context always matters. These episodes were written 60 years ago, when our society was just beginning to have these kinds conversations in public, in a modern media environment. Written by people raised in a deeply racist, segregated society who were trying to be better, but still ultimately shaped by their surroundings. Maybe it's the history major in me, but we're far enough removed from TOS that I find it natural to look at it more dispassionately and compartmentalized. In all of the ways TOS was ahead of its time, it was still ultimately a product of its time as well.

I think for me, the most insulting and unforgivable episodes of TOS are episodes like The Way to Eden -- which is not trying to say anything meaningful or progressive, but is really just a tone-deaf chastisement of the counterculture movement, and the idealism/impulsivity of youth. There's no real additional context you can give there that can excuse that. It's just purely old people being close minded and talking down to their audience, ending up on the wrong side of history, counter to what the rest of the show ostensibly stands for. Or Turnabout Intruder. Which, under even the most charitable of readings, is essentially saying yes, we know women are just as capable as men and given the short end of the stick by society, but please stop being hysterical and upset about it. Gross.
 
You really do have to grade TOS on a curve when it comes to racism, or really any -isms I suppose, just because there's basically no TV show from the 60s that can stand up to modern understanding of race and gender and all that. Hell even The Twilight Zone has some pretty unfortunate stuff in it, and that show is a poster child for "way ahead of its time."
 
Oh and double post because: I finished Starfleet Academy. What a fucking great show and it's a huge disappointment we're only getting 1 more season. I suppose the finale did feel a little too nicely tied up by the end, but I figure that's mostly because the show is targeting a somewhat younger demographic, and I still think the writing "earned it" anyway.
 
Both TOS episodes you bring up are at their core, Prime Directive episodes.
I'm not talking about the shit they made up as background for the series. I'm talking about what is on the screen. I'm talking about the racist under- and overtones that were on display, that producers, directors, and studios signed off on, knowingly or otherwise.

You know the story of Nichelle Nichols considering leaving the show because her character wasn't doing anything meaningful, but then Martin Luther King Jr. personally asked her to stay on because of what it meant to black people? Well, it works the other way too. Imagine an indigenous kid who watches Star Trek. The only time they see their people represented is in "The Paradise Syndrome." And it's bad. The "indigenous" people in that episode are barely above the kind of representation they'd see in a John Ford film. You really think such a kid would come away from Star Trek feeling like it represents an "enlightened" future? I doubt it.
 
I'm not talking about the shit they made up as background for the series.
I am aware. But I am talking about it.

I already outlined that I'm well aware and appreciate how there's problematic stuff in TOS. My entire point though, is that there's context and nuance here that was not originally being discussed and ought to be a part of any reasonable and thorough discussion of the subject matter.

This entire line of discussion came about because of a claim that "99.9% of Trek fans who think well of TOS have never watched it". A stance that is so outlandish and filled with condemnation that it could easily be taken to offense. Instead, on my part I preferred to keep the discussion cordial and productive, discussing why I disagreed with that POV and how I can compartmentalize things.

The Prime Directive also isn't just flavor text, or set dressing. It's core to the worldview and ethical underpinning of the entire franchise. It's a "made up" concept, but it's a concept that is informed by our lived history and ongoing geopolitical reality. Saying in no uncertain terms that colonialism is not just bad, but a well articulated explanation of why it's bad. It is not a meaningless or trite idea. And dismissing this inherently anti-racist core theme of the show, in a discussion about if the show is racist, seems... not thorough, among other things.

Imagine an indigenous kid who watches Star Trek. The only time they see their people represented is in "The Paradise Syndrome." And it's bad. The "indigenous" people in that episode are barely above the kind of representation they'd see in a John Ford film. You really think such a kid would come away from Star Trek feeling like it represents an "enlightened" future? I doubt it.
Being part of a minority group and dealing with under/misrepresentation in pop culture/media is my lived experience, and not just an academic thought exercise. Those occasions aren't great, but they're also unavoidable in our society. And a lot of us learn to compartmentalize because if you don't, you're never going to be able to enjoy anything. Different people have different tolerances and perspectives about these kinds of issues, and it's up to individuals about where they draw their own personal lines. There are many occasions where I've drawn personal lines against pop media and my peers have looked past and embraced those same pieces of media. They're not wrong and neither am I.
 
their use of shoe polish blackface on actors,
For clarity's sake... are you talking about this episode?
close-up-of-commissioner-bele-frank-gorshin-lokai-lou-antonio-star-trek-let-that-be-your-last-battlefield.jpg

Because, yeah you can call that shoe polish, but the whole point of the episode is we have two pretty damn white-coded guys being racist at each other and everyone else being confused about how they're even different, so it's weird to call it "blackface." I guess you could argue they could have picked some pair of colors that people don't ever refer to people with like oh, blue and purple, but that would not have been readable for the majority of people watching the show when it first aired.
Uu-Rk-ca4S9mvx56eq-avMwvegeFdu5csVTkIoNv3Jj8JXpv7rWdZXwXOA-rkLzQuyX23Y6PXQB4BsdFqBuZOS3UU5Poi25yLpJuVHf9cRYJMxAZObasKyX2hQVbuS5BoQ

... but if you're talking about like Klingons or something, yeah carry on.
 
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