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The Better Call Saul Thread - Guilty as Cinnabon
- Thread starter Johnny Unusual
- Start date
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
Oh, and best set design goes to Howard's funeral slathered in pictures of him doing outdoorsy stuff where he has the same fucking smile in each one.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
A nice little touch from the early seasons; Howard is constantly calling Jimmy "Charlie Hustle", commending him on his work ethic and constantly crowing about how he gave him the well-deserved nickname. Charlie Hustle was the nickname of Pete Rose, one of the greatest baseball players... who was also permanently banned from the sport and the hall of fame for gambling. Like Jimmy, undeniably talented but tainted by his rule breaking forever. Howard definitely thinks it's just a compliment because he's the kind of guy who... misses these kinds of nuances.
Interesting spot to put this episode, the likely final moment chronologically of the franchise.
I continue to be bad at predicting what will happen on this show
R.R. Bigman
Coolest Guy
It is something to remember that Saul is the one who introduced Walt and Jesse to Gus, Mike and “The Game” proper.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
I know, right?
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
Also, Carol Burnett fucking killed it in this. And holy shit Jimmy with the "I think I'm going to ice this old lady" body language. I don't think he was even thinking about it, I think he just absorbed so much horrible violence and was so desperate that he defaulted to a level of awfulness and scariness we've never seen. At least he has a line.
Sprite
(He/Him/His)
Such a brilliant penultimate episode. Kim is trading one purgatory for another, trying desperately to experience consequences for her actions which aren’t self-imposed. Her whole life now is moving among shades with no real thoughts of their own, who end half their sentences with, “I don’t know, what do you think?” In trying to atone she has removed all conflict from her life, and with it any ability to change the world for the better.
But she’s at least trying to be a good person. Jimmy has lost all of his charm and joy and is left as a pathetic monster, running stupidly complicated analogue identity theft schemes that were decades out of date even 10-15 years ago. Kim seems capable of enduring purgatory with a quiet dignity, but Jimmy just seethes that he can’t ruin people’s lives for fun anymore. Maybe in prison he can start scamming people again for cigarettes.
But she’s at least trying to be a good person. Jimmy has lost all of his charm and joy and is left as a pathetic monster, running stupidly complicated analogue identity theft schemes that were decades out of date even 10-15 years ago. Kim seems capable of enduring purgatory with a quiet dignity, but Jimmy just seethes that he can’t ruin people’s lives for fun anymore. Maybe in prison he can start scamming people again for cigarettes.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
One of my favourite recurring ideas in the show is actually good advice or observations in the mouths of tainted sources. Sometimes Chuck had a point but Chuck was also terrible and often his points came from ugly sources. Howard understood there was something wrong with Jimmy but in trying to warn Kim, he missed some point and instead Kim latched onto (probably out of desperation but also completely understandably) to the implication that Jimmy is responsible for her decisions as if she has no agency. So I think it makes perfect sense that Kim would finally "do the right thing" based on the aggrieved raging of Gene, now an extremely tainted source. Kim is doing the right thing, even if understandably no one will ever be thankful for her decision. After all, Cheryl proves "He didn't suffer" isn't true.
Kim was so focused on damning Howard for his privilege and being part of a shitty system that services the powerful, she dehumanized her victim in her mind, only to see it in her last moments.
Kim was so focused on damning Howard for his privilege and being part of a shitty system that services the powerful, she dehumanized her victim in her mind, only to see it in her last moments.
Sprite
(He/Him/His)
Kim's definitely my favorite character of the franchise. Of the four leads - Walt, Jesse, Jimmy, her - she's the closest to being a good person and has the keenest conscience, but as a result her choices are just that much more devastating. The other three tend to make their choices out of either ambition or desperation. Kim gets stuck with those choices as well, but in the end what seduces her is just pure sadism, the joy of screwing over a mark. "I was having too much fun" is one of the most devastating reads any of these characters has received, and she makes it of herself. I'm hoping she finds peace, but I'm not sure if true redemption is possible in this universe. Maybe for Jesse.
Unf, these shows. I might just do another watch of Breaking Bad, though I don't know if my middle-aged butt can put up with stressful television as much anymore.
Speaking of Chuck, I can't stop thinking about this scene. It's the clearest read of Jimmy in the whole show, and an awful premonition of what's to come. You have to wonder how much of what Saul and later Gene became was an inevitable result of Jimmy's nature, and how much of it was just him swallowing Chuck's poison.
Unf, these shows. I might just do another watch of Breaking Bad, though I don't know if my middle-aged butt can put up with stressful television as much anymore.
karzac
(he/him)
Nice write-up of the Top 25 episodes of the series over at The Ringer. The only notable omission I think is "Rico", from Season 1, which is the episode that introduces the Sandpiper case. That alone would be enough to warrant a mention, I think, given how important that case is to the entirety of BCS's plot (not to mention the introduction Rich Schweikart, who's a great character). But also I think this episode does a great job of showcasing that, when he actually tries to be, Jimmy is a legitimately lawyer, even without the flim-flam.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
Yeah, his impromptu legal document write-up is some killer lawyering. A favourite.
Also, I love that in Chicanery, Chuck references Perry Mason before shit hit the fan and then that recently happy in real life (though in real life, it was somehow MUCH happier and more cathartic than the fiction thing).
Also, I love that in Chicanery, Chuck references Perry Mason before shit hit the fan and then that recently happy in real life (though in real life, it was somehow MUCH happier and more cathartic than the fiction thing).
R.R. Bigman
Coolest Guy
What a contrast to Breaking Bad’s finale. Far less bloody, but it hurt a lot more to watch. Walt got to tie up his loose ends, kill Jack and company, and make peace with Jesse. Jimmy is caught by a sloppy scam, and the only thing he can do to try and make amends is to give a terrible performance as his own lawyer.
The end of the last great drama on cable.
The end of the last great drama on cable.
I agree with all of this, but! I also think it's very comparable to the BB finale. Both endings were as happy as they could possibly be, given the circumstances, as both characters came to terms with their inner conflict and found self-absolution through the consequences of their actions.
conchobhar
What's Shenmue?
I've been cool on this season, but the finale was excellent. Really threaded the needle in giving Jimmy the punishment he deserves while still allowing him redemption.
karzac
(he/him)
I don't know if I agree that that performance was entirely about Jimmy making amends. I think it was just as much him getting one last victory. He put the prosecution in a position where he could negotiate them down as much as he wanted, because they were too afraid to face him in the courtroom. And then he threw it all away, in part to make amends, in part to save Kim, but also just because he could. It was the equivalent of checkmating an opponent and then knocking over your king, the satisfaction of knowing you've mastered the system being more important than the victory. Like he told Bill, it ended with him on top. Nobody can beat Jimmy but Jimmy.
Good finale. Both Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul had protagonists with multiple identities. In Breaking Bad, Walter White was also Heisenberg. For a long time he pretended that Heisenberg was just a front, and that all of his criminal activities were to secure his family's future. By the end, he admitted that it was really for himself, and he died as Heisenberg, a criminal mastermind getting one last victory over his enemies. In Better Call Saul, Saul Goodman was also Jimmy McGill, still a rascal but a far cry from the scum lawyer he appeared to be in the original series. He continued to be Jimmy for much longer than most viewers expected, and when he finally started to really turn into Saul later in the series, it felt more tragic than what happened to Walter. But whereas Walter's final act was his confirmation and acceptance of his true identity of Heisenberg, Saul's final act is his redemption and return to being Jimmy. He's probably in jail for life, but he found his humanity again. It was nice to see.
Here's a fantastic write up on the finale that doubles as a retrospective and reflection on the full series, using past episodes and accounts to add wonderful texture to the finale. Well worth the read.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
Of course, there's the irony that while Jimmy is all that remains, a flawed person with good qualities, few people outside of Kim will see him as anything other than that ridiculous TV criminal turned accessory to awful crimes. Oh, the other criminals like him and some probably form genuine friendships with him where he is Jimmy but... I mean, nicknames stick and Saul sticks. He has to live with his mistakes and the hurt he created and he has this mark that is a name. It's not some awful curse but it's going to be there forever.
Looking back, I like that some of the terrible things he does in the series that there's no going back from (Chuck and Howard) are all little things he just assumed that they would recover from so he could have a small measure of satisfaction over them. But they didn't. Jimmy makes a lot of mistakes that he tried to turn around but those are the ones where death shows there are things that can't be undone by simply feeling contrite, something he just gave up one after a while.
zonetrope
(he/him)
I appreciate that the shows remained tight-lipped to the end about what exactly happened at Gray Matter, other than those corny flashbacks back in BrBa season 1 (not coincidentally, probably the weakest moments in either series). I mean, we can infer for ourselves what happened with the breadcrumbs we're given. But these shows are otherwise obsessed with giving us every last tiny detail of how things went down, and I'm glad that the writers showed some restraint on that particular thread.
Purple
(She/Her)
So as the final season this has FINALLY made it's way to a streaming thing I have access to and I binged the heck out of it, some way after the fact spoilery thoughts:
Lalo is freaking great and probably deserved a better death scene than this. I can't remember who it was that described him as "Evil Columbo" when I was catching up on the previous season, but that's such an excellent way of putting in.
I appreciate that by the end we really got surprisingly explicit that, no really, these two just kinda have some kind of serious addition to zany capers for zany capers' sake, and it's tearing their lives apart.
It is a Really Interesting Choice to finally reach the point where Breaking Bad would definitely be happening at the same time and then just straight up skip forward to epilogue stuff from there out. Especially when they did grab the BB leads so it's not like it was an availability thing (but might have been a "these two have much more visibly aged" thing).
Like, on the one hand, hey we already know how all this goes, and the obviously interesting angle of "what if we just have these two going about their regular lawyering and scheming lives and now they suddenly have to contend with this violent drug pusher monster wanting to kill everyone" already got worked out with Lalo, and in a way where there isn't really much of interest in his life left to disrupt with it, but also like... there have to be a non-zero number of people who did, in fact, choose to watch this show that's mostly character studies and legal drama who did not, in fact, watch this other show like a decade ago with a plot synopsis that seemed like a real downer, and wow that last episode would be confusing as hell.
Also it's kinda weird that they never really did bring the Jimmy plot and the Mike plot together. Like... they talk to each other maybe 4 times in the whole course of the series?
Also I like that we kinda got a scene just giving the never-speaking supernatural seeming murder twins a nice little sympathetic human moment in there.
Lalo is freaking great and probably deserved a better death scene than this. I can't remember who it was that described him as "Evil Columbo" when I was catching up on the previous season, but that's such an excellent way of putting in.
I appreciate that by the end we really got surprisingly explicit that, no really, these two just kinda have some kind of serious addition to zany capers for zany capers' sake, and it's tearing their lives apart.
It is a Really Interesting Choice to finally reach the point where Breaking Bad would definitely be happening at the same time and then just straight up skip forward to epilogue stuff from there out. Especially when they did grab the BB leads so it's not like it was an availability thing (but might have been a "these two have much more visibly aged" thing).
Like, on the one hand, hey we already know how all this goes, and the obviously interesting angle of "what if we just have these two going about their regular lawyering and scheming lives and now they suddenly have to contend with this violent drug pusher monster wanting to kill everyone" already got worked out with Lalo, and in a way where there isn't really much of interest in his life left to disrupt with it, but also like... there have to be a non-zero number of people who did, in fact, choose to watch this show that's mostly character studies and legal drama who did not, in fact, watch this other show like a decade ago with a plot synopsis that seemed like a real downer, and wow that last episode would be confusing as hell.
Also it's kinda weird that they never really did bring the Jimmy plot and the Mike plot together. Like... they talk to each other maybe 4 times in the whole course of the series?
Also I like that we kinda got a scene just giving the never-speaking supernatural seeming murder twins a nice little sympathetic human moment in there.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
I'm at a bit of a remove but I remember enjoying the death scene. But more than that, I love the nature of what is done with the body (though it was already floating around as a fan theory for a while). Tony Dalton deserves to be a star after this. I really hope his character in the MCU ends up getting more play in the future, minor as it is. At the very least, it feels like a great advertisement to have him as an aging Zorro.
Part of me wanted Kim to surprise everyone to trick Lalo to his death but I think it would have also taken her character to a place that's more fun when it needed to end somewhere more thoughtful. I feel like the writers must have been struggling with it, wanting to have proof of these characters in this world and it usually comes down to ruthless crime people being really impressed that they talked the baddest motherfuckers into the slightest compromises.
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Sprite
(He/Him/His)
Kim and Jimmy need to be out of their depth anytime the crime world asserts itself and negotiations become useless. They’re just not built to handle it once violence shows up, which is a nice contrast to Walt and Jessie growing more and more accustomed to violence as BB goes on.
Johnny Unusual
(He/Him)
Yeah, I agree. Their skill is getting much further in negotiations than anyone expects. Like Lalo going "wait, he talked Tuco into that" or Gus going "Oh, he talked Lalo into that?"
air_show
elementary my dear baxter
Oh man no, hard disagreement there. He was vile scum. (I mean, fantastic performance and really scary villain but) He fathered a son just to use him as corpse double. It was fucking planned. Making sure the dental records matched and everything. I really enjoyed seeing Gus beat him and that it was in a moment of Walt-esque clumsy fast-thinking, very simple and bereft of ceremony or glory. His speech done had me rooting for him again, just like I was when he got Don Eladio. And this show I'd say went even further in showing that no, Gus really is as monstrous a villain as any others. He did Nacho dirty.
OH MY GOD BY THE WAY THAT FINAL NACHO SCENE WAS AMAZING I'M SURE THAT'S NOT A HOT TAKE RIGHT WE ALL AGREE ON THAT?
Like he straight up got on Cranston's level there.
It really is a series about empathizing with villains I think. Easy to forget. I was kind of hoping for a happier, more romantic ending, because I genuinely got behind Kim and Jimmy's love for each other, I had to be reminded of all the bad shit he enabled. Still though I was kind of hoping those two crazy kids would decide to face whatever's next together and the color would come back into their lives. Although, I supposed that cigarette did show a spark of hope. I wonder if the litmus test is whether you think those last shots are also the last times they see each other or not.
You know I couldn't quite figure out at first why he freaked out so bad after calling Kim. Even when I got to hear the other side and have the context. She kept her distance but I think it was still obvious how much she cared about him still. But then I realized that she told him to turn himself in and take responsibility, which is what his brother would have told him to do, and coming from her it really broke him and got him attempting to be Walt. And at least in this case we do know she's right.
Speaking of Walt, I think it's telling that every time we've gotten a flashback of him in the post-BB content he's being an unbearable asshole. That's what the people who weren't his family remember. I at least found amusement in the fact that he was so blind to the irony of telling Saul, "So you were always like this." Saul probably thought the same thing when Walt told him about Gray Matter.
I agree both that we did not get explicit closure on the Gray Matter situation and that it is a good thing we didn't. That said, Walt in that moment did make it seem an awful lot like he really was just a paranoid asshole who burned the bridge himself out of spite and ego.