Tactics Ogre Reborn - Mama, I just killed an ogre...

[fanboymaster]

The Future Of Final Fantasy Is All About Player Feedback

When Yoshinori Kitase talks about the future of Final Fantasy, you probably want to listen. The veteran producer, widely considered the successor to former Square Enix honcho Hironobu Sakaguchi, is one of the shepherds of the iconic role-playing game series. And he’s looking to take some lessons...

kotaku.com

The interview in question, relevant bit.

“I am actually curious to know — I believe the port version, the one you can get right now, does use the more brushed up artwork that’s a little bit more refined,” Kitase said. “Do fans want to see the older version that’s not as refined? Is that the sentiment?”

 

[estragon]

That was actually an interview about the Steam port of Chrono Trigger

The Future Of Final Fantasy Is All About Player Feedback

When Yoshinori Kitase talks about the future of Final Fantasy, you probably want to listen. The veteran producer, widely considered the successor to former Square Enix honcho Hironobu Sakaguchi, is one of the shepherds of the iconic role-playing game series. And he’s looking to take some lessons...

kotaku.com

The interview in question, relevant bit.

Yes, that's the one. Definitely Final Fantasy, not Chrono Trigger.

redoing them for modern displays required a completely different approach

It's true, but she's also refined her approach significantly since then. The Pixel Remasters are a better attempt than the iOS ports, and even the Pixel Remasters had some major character sprites improved in patches after release. (Patch notes call them "minor changes," but they're minor changes that resolve things that transform a few sprites from not quite working for me to looking great.) I think we all know here that they were done by the same person, but some of her earlier efforts at adjusting for newer displays were not her best work. I think she has more or less nailed it with the revisions implemented in the patches to the Pixel Remaster sprites, which fix some of the characters that worked the least for me. It's not simply a matter of it not matching the One Correct Way, but that many people including her are experimenting with how to make these games look better on new monitors, with some experiments more successful than others. I imagine time and budget are also a factor, although those details aren't public...

(Also the spritework is only one of the problems with the visuals in the FF5/6 iOS ports...)

 

[Regulus]

That's interesting to hear about the Pixel Remaster sprites -- I had no idea they'd been patched. Looking at some comparisons, they do a lot to fix the biggest issues with them (lack of range in the shading being #1, I think). Almost makes me wonder if Shibuya has been working with a poorly calibrated monitor.

 

[Juno]

I'm not surprised that there's a disconnect in expectations between some of people that made these games and the people that grew up with them. For us, the low resolution, high color contrast look of 16-bit era sprites is "the way it's supposed to be", whereas for them it was just part of the limitations of the medium (both hardware and display).

IMO this sort of disconnect is inherent to fan-creator dynamics, across forms of media. Fans of a work appreciate the work as it exists, because they don't know of it being any other way. But for creators, it is only natural for them to imagine how it could have different and closer to their original idea of it if the circumstances in which they made it were more ideal- If they had more time and resources, if the technology was less limiting, etc. So when they get a chance to revisit that work and decide to change it in a way that it lines up more with what they want the game to be, the fans don't always accept that, because they don't feel that there was ever anything missing in the first place.

 

[Pajaro Pete]

imo we can kind of intuit what the intended "look" for tactics ogre is: it's the same smooth cartoon style we see in Ogre Battle and Ogre Battle 64, if a little more subdued. but i think they miss the mark with reborn (and i wish they had redone some of the sprites a bit more - cistina's weird stumpy arms are still here).

game's still real good though, loving the changes to the skill system.

 

[Pajaro Pete]

Trip report, Beginning of Chapter 3 Law:
Battles still tend to go pretty smoothly unless I'm trying use Recruit skills, in which case they become a clusterfuck real quick. In the final string of battles of Law 2, the first one has two Dragons and a Warlock/Witch combo that I wanted and I eventually had to just cut my losses and only walked away with the Warlock, who I probably won't ever use.
The duel at the end of Law 2 starts the boss with 4 Buff Cards, so, uh, hopefully the AI characters can distract him for a minute while you wait for more to spawn or are able to successfully knock him into a Null Card.

Healing magic still feels awfully weak, maybe it's because my Cleric refuses to proc Meditation as regularly as my Enchantress.
Torpor (inflicts Slow) seems to be the way to go with ailments. Poison is really powerful too, but Torpor gives you the benefit of keeping the enemies out of your hair.
Valkyries and Rune Fencers are top tier now since everything runs on MP and they can get Meditate. It's all Finishers All The Time.
(Because everything runs on MP, theoretically the MP Drain spell should be really good)
You can't buy MP Leaves anymore, which is lame, and every enemy caster seems to start battles munching on one or two so they've always got MP to spare, seems like.
Buff Cards put in Work. My Valkyrie picked up two Physical Cards early on and was knocking half the lifebar off of Knights. It's incredible.
I'm finding I'm paying a lot more attention to additional effects of gear than I did in the PSP version, because things like Counterattack and Parry are bolted onto weapons rather than being equipped Skills. Movement Up and Jump Up seem bolted onto all the Crafted Armwear and Legwear upgrades, so there's a strong incentive to stick with a lower tier +1 piece instead of what's just popped up in the shops.
They seem to have ditched most of the spells from the previous iterations of the game: So far the only elemental spells I've seen are the Missile Spells, the Indirect Spells, and the Instill Spells. Dark gets all the bad status effects, Light gets all the status heals + haste, and all of the Defense Up/Attack Up/whatever stuff is just items now?
Money stops being an issue as long as you can visit the Wildwood.

Because of the Level Cap + the fairly gentle difficulty curve + the lack of random encounters + the 2x speed battles, the game is really flying by, but like in a way that genuinely feels good? It's breezy in a way that this game needs on account of all the additional content.

 

[Regulus]

I'm on 3N right now and, while it the game is going by faster, some of the guest battles on the C/N route have been way harder than they were on PSP.

Playing through Neutral now... it sadly doesn't seem like they really did anything to make it more attractive (recruitment-wise) compared to the other routes. Oelias and Dievold and Phaesta/Chamos/Tamuz have pretty decent base states, at least. Though Chamos and Tamuz still have their PSP RT "bonuses".

Also, Neutral's not very popular, is it?

Spoiler: Achievement spoilers?

I'm looking forward to hearing the Neutral version of the convo with Nybeth in PotD, at least.

On that subject, the English voice acting has been pretty decent. I wasn't feeling Canopus at first, but he's grown on me. I liked hearing him trade barbs with Oz at Boed. Ronwey's VA does a good job selling his frustration in lines that I read as more neutral originally, which I like. Xapan is a lot of fun, too. There are some misteps, though. I'm not into Stephanie Sheh as Arycelle. She gets a little better when she's not acting vengeful, but her voice is just not what I pictured for our favorite Thunder Maiden. And Jason Kennett's Tartaros just... never feels right. I was hoping it was just playing things up during the first Walister Resistance meeting, but it sounds kinda goofy even when he's serious.

 

[YangusKhan]

Ronwey's VA does a good job selling his frustration in lines that I read as more neutral originally, which I like.

I think he stands out the most to me so far.

I've only just reached Chapter 2 Lawful route, so I just unlocked crafting. They really did streamline the hell out of that didn't they? Honestly with how painless it is now, it kind of makes me feel like they didn't even need to keep the crafting system at all. But I know there's more to it eventually than just buying materials from the store.

 

[Pajaro Pete]

I feel like the level cap could be a bit smoother. At the beginning of Chapter 3 it goes from 17 to 19, and it doesn't raise until like... six battles in? So you'll spend a lot of that time at the level cap. Like maybe after three battles it raises to 20, and the next three battles it goes up to 21.

Hektor was an absolute bastard, but every battle after that has been mostly a cakewalk? The Coritinae Interior was especially funny because the tight walkway means a Rampart Aura Dragon can almost single handedly hold the enemy line.

 

[Regulus]

Interesting. It feels to me like it tends to update after the most significant events, which are usually spaced out around 3 to 4 battles. But I haven't been paying super close attention. I'm typically several levels below the cap and it feels like it's been updating around the time actually reach it.

I didn't really encounter many battles that I would call a cakewalk on Ch 3 Neutral (maybe the Oelias/Dievold rescue), but some are definitely easier than others. I imagine things vary a lot depending what kind of units you're using and whether or not you hit the level cap, though.

I've noticed a handful of mistranslations that have been retained from the PSP localization. I would have hoped recording VO would have helped them catch some of the dialogue errors, but I suppose the script is complex enough that they're easy to miss. There are also a number of skill and ability descriptions with issues - "Engulf" is still based on a misinterpretation of the description (it increases range, not AoE - the Japanese name is simply "Extend Range") and an I've seen some entries that mention status effects that no longer exist.

 

[Pajaro Pete]

Xaebos kicked my teeth in the first go around, I guess that's hubris for you. Partial strategic missteps on my part: Brought my Warlock instead of my Enchantress so no Conserve RT, bringing Mending Leaves when I should have been bringing Salves, trying to recruit the Necromancer.

Second attempt went much more smoothly, but that's also because early on bestie stepped on a Red Card of his own volition. Necromancer secured, though again I probably won't use him in a lot of actual battles because no Conserve RT.

I'm really hesitant to upgrade a lot of my long range weaponry because being able to potentially Silence backrow Clerics when a regular attack is far too useful.

 

[Rascally Badger]

What I love is when a half dozen physical + cards pop up around the enemies as the battle starts, so half their team just just pure murder.

Also, when a recruitable NPC decides to just do the stupidest shit.

 

[Rascally Badger]

Does anyone have any tips for Boed Fortress on the Neutral route? Because rescuing the more suicidal than usual npc seems impossible.

 

[Regulus]

You need to get other valid targets in range as soon as possible, and try to make sure she has a path down the central ramp. Once she's out of range, you'll want to plug it up so Oz can't get close enough to use Dark Prison on her. Canopus and other fliers can get up there fast, but you may want to Quicken them if you can because using all that movement sets their RT really high. Bring consumables to debuff the dangerous enemies and/or buff Cerya's survivability. Gryphons are pretty good for this -- they have Dash, which can get them into range faster, and their lack of armor makes them an attractive target for enemy units.

 

[Regulus]

I'm near the end of Ch 4 and this version is probably the best version yet (I definitely prefer it to the PSP version, at least), but there are some things that are pretty disappointing. Like... what's up with elemental magic? It's so boring compared to both previous versions of the game. I think it made sense to cut a lot of the cruft out of the huge magic pools from the PSP version, but the fact that there's less variety than the SFC version is criminal. Where's Jumpwall? Melt Weapon? Mercy Rain? Teleport? Now there are only 4 levels of missile spells and 4 levels of indirect spells, all of which are functionally identical from element to element. The only reason to go with one element over another seems to be type coverage. Tragic.

 

[Pajaro Pete]

ozma recruitment fight was more difficult than it needed to be because i didn't realize you need to take volaq off the board first before getting her down to 10% HP, so i ended up having to use my healing items on her to keep her alive while she kept dropping avalanches on me

might mess around and go do the palace of the dead to get some relics so i can go ahead and recruit deneb

 

[Pajaro Pete]

The Shrines are really tedious and I think if I were to have my way I would remove the "Inside the Fortress" map, and the penultimate Shrine tile set map in each of them, leaving only the two elemental tile set maps and the final Shrine tile set map. They are kind enough to reward you with stat boost charms in every battle, and the final level of each Shrine rewards you with high level Crafting books, so even though you'll easily hit the level cap during this quest, you at least get something out of each Shrine. But I did get Shaman, and then I went and did grinding in the Palace of the Dead to get enough Relics to recruit Deneb as a Wicce, and now I think it's time to finish the game, then maybe do CODA 1 and then San Bronsa.

 

[Rascally Badger]

The final boss broke me. I just can't.

 

[Pajaro Pete]

Floor ~80 of the Palace of the Dead: Things are going very slowly. The Palace gets easier the further you go, the first few fights go from Level 32 and rapidly creep up to Level 40, but then stay at 40 for a really long time, so if you come here at your first chance it'll be a nightmare. The further you go the fewer Undead seem to spawn, instead the focus switches to the Evil Classes (including an unfortunate H*rry P*tter reference), so that also makes things easier. I'm spending a little more time than I should be here because instead of letting the AI handle it, I'm foolishly going for the No Incap/No Chariot bonus objectives for the extra Stat Charms.

Since they removed the Augment (Element) skills, a lot of the PotD armor is but a modest improvement over what you could already craft. The elemental stuff in particular is sort of... well, I guess it's fine that it exists. Unfortunately I've only picked up one flight object, so the pit maps are still very annoying to navigate). I did recruit another Hawk Man to help, but tbh he's mostly spamming Boon of Swiftness. Hot tip: Give your flight gear to a White Knight with Stun Bringer, drop them in the middle of the enemy backlines, and let them go ham stunning enemies left and right on counter attacks.

 

[Mogri]

Does this remake still let you turn a guy into a skeleton and back to stack up crazy stats and then turn that guy into a sword?

 

[Regulus]

There's nothing as absurd as the necro/retissue loop in the original, but I think you can still do something similar with mental stats using the Ogre Blade. And yes, you can still turn people into swords. And axes, and bows, and guns (etc).

 

[estragon]

And yes, you can still turn people into swords.

Did that start in the SFC game or the PSP version?

 

[Pajaro Pete]

SFC was Swords, but the PSP version made it so you could turn units into any type of weapon

 

[estragon]

Wild. I would have thought that was the kind of baroque nonsense introduced to the genre by Disgaea.

 

[Pajaro Pete]

Palace of the Dead Complete. There's a couple of maps later on that get a bit hairy, but mostly because you start surrounded. The boss on the 100th floor was easier than the earlier event bosses, thanks largely in part to Liches being so much slower than the caster type bosses from earlier encounters - I could see it getting out of hand if he could act more often.

(It also helps a lot to have Lava Walk gear so you can have a commando team skip the bridge altogether)

Anyway diving back in to go farm Flight rings on Floor 21.

 

[Pajaro Pete]

Final boss ended up being much less of hassle because Sherri proc'd Meditate on turn 1 which let her melt DoppleSherri, and then Ozma proc'd Intimidate a few turns later near the boss, getting rid of his Risk Management. Then in Phase 2 he decided he really wanted to do kind of weak regular attacks on Ravness instead of actually causing havok.

Iuria/Songstress is really good in this version. The Instrument she joins with casts the Spellcraft + ~20 MP recovery for free, which is already really useful but it was also pretty easy to get my hands on the Instrument that casts the HP regen for free, and that feels like maybe the single best action you can take at the beginning of a battle.

I also completed San Bronsa for the first time ever. It's visually very nice and the enemies here are basically Relic/Spell piñatas, but I wish the bonus rewards had had more Stat Charms because it doesn't feel like many of my characters "got" anything out of it. Also I can't imagine coming here without Flight Rings/Boots because the terrain is rough.

Divine Knights, while much easier to obtain than in the PSP version, are bad. The Charm Song doesn't work on anything you'd want it to (and since Divine Knights don't get Concentrate they can't even really boost their chances), The Unzombies Units Song is extremely situational, The Deals Damage To Undead Units Song is mostly fine because if you're fighting undead units but it really should have a chance to Exorcise on hit too. The MP Reset Song is the only one really worth using, and that's really only during San Bronsa because it's so magic heavy. Their only melee option is 1H Swords, which aren't, like, great weapons, and their spell selection seems to be limited to Divine Attack magic and the Draconic Sacrifice, and it all leaves me thinking: Wow this is way worse than a generic Winged Rune Fencer. Not surprised, but disappointed anyway.

 

[Pajaro Pete]

CODA Clear. I might run through and do the Chaos/Neutral paths to finish recruiting everyone, but maybe not.

Overall: A really good remake with some issues!
The big one for me is the stability issues on Switch, which partially got fixed after the last patch but I've still had two post-battle crashes since then. I've had more crashes with this game than literally any other game I've ever owned.

Although there's a ton of side content, it's a little unfortunate that very little of it is scaled in such a way that it can be used as a playground for different strategies. Because these side areas tend to have a large number of battles, many of which have enemies at least ten levels higher than your level cap, you sort of have to settle in on doing things as efficient as possible. The Palace of the Dead really should have just given you a regular short cut when you make it to a new stratum instead of the roundabout palace guidebooks you only get for completing floor 100 and may or may not work depending on the timeline you're on. (Perhaps it's blasphemy to say this because people get weird when you suggest a remake should have less content than the original, but I think it also would have been better for the Palace of the Dead to be half as long as it is, because if you can clear 50 floors of the Palace you can clear the whole thing)

Character recruitment, both via skills and through story beats, is bad for different reasons. Using recruit skills is an exercise in frustration (also it's v funny that Seraph Pact is one of the first recruit skills you get but also can only be used in one battle in the entire game??), and some of the character recruitment requirements is absolutely baffling. Ocionne, Ravness, and Cressida are all stand outs here: O and R require you to let Jeunes babble on for the entirety of two separate battles (Ravness is particularly funny because she is not in the battle or even mentioned in it), while Cressida requires you to engage with the Chaos Frame system, a thing that has literally only one other usage in the entire game. And like I get that Jeunes is supposed to provide a parallel to Denam because they both did war crimes but I feel like he should have been a mandatory party member if they wanted to have this whole redemption arc.