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Phantoon

I cuss you bad
I'm playing Mario 64. Despite some irritations (like I'll never understand exactly what calls the eel out of the sunken ship, and Cool, Cool Mountain seems quite a lot harder than it should be at that point in the game) it's still a masterpiece. The fact that their first stab at Mario in 3d from 1996 is still fun to play is nothing short of miraculous.

I really like the cap palaces and the slight metroid style feel to them, I wish there was some more cap weirdness.
 
Man, Dire Dire Docks doesn't mess around with the 100 Coins star. I played the third floor and up in SM64 much less than the other courses growing up, so I'm prepared to get my ass kicked more now.

Also, my memory is hazy, but did Mario get the ability to switch 180 degrees North/South in a later title? I don't know if it's a Switch stick issue or what, but I've fallen off so much stuff where I'm on the edge of the platform and try to turn around, only for Mario to take his tiny little step he needs to turn around and fall off.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Yeah, that's exactly how Mario 64 handles. A hop on the spot can give you a bit of space to safely turn. As I recall, Dire Dire Docks doesn't have much spare coins for the 100. It's one of the harder levels for it.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Galaxy is so good. I have about 45 stars and am trying to pace myself so I don't get them all in a day lol.

Maybe I'll finally get around to playing Odyssey after these. Still haven't played it, and I'm very much in a Mario mood right now.
 

WildcatJF

Let's Pock (Art @szk_tencho)
(he / his / him)
65 stars in SM64. New champion for hardest star is now the volcano elevator one...sure spent way more time than expected on that this morning haha
 

ShakeWell

Slam Master
(he, etc.)
I got all the Bomb-Omb Battlefield stars last night, and a few more, and while the camera can be finicky, the flight controls are probably what I hate most. I've always hated the flying in 64, and, yeah, still hate it.
 
Given that the flying is a limited time power-up, I wish it would just let you fly where you want until it disappears. The special caps don't really get to do much in general. The metal one is mostly for sinking to the bottom of water a handful of times. The invisible one is just for going through the occasional gate or wall. They're all more like time limits for challenges rather than power-ups that you can have fun with and be stronger. At least the turtle shell is still fun as hell on each level.
 

Kishi

Little Waves
(They/Them)
Staff member
Moderator
I'm playing Mario 64. Despite some irritations (like I'll never understand exactly what calls the eel out of the sunken ship, and Cool, Cool Mountain seems quite a lot harder than it should be at that point in the game) it's still a masterpiece. The fact that their first stab at Mario in 3d from 1996 is still fun to play is nothing short of miraculous.

It had to have helped that, whereas some developers were caught flat-footed by the shift to 3D in the mid-'90s, Miyamoto had been designing a 3D Mario game in his head from the moment he heard Nintendo was making a machine more powerful than the Famicom. (The hardware engineers quickly explained to him it would be impossible on the SuFami, but the Super FX chip came about because he simply could not wait another hardware cycle to start making 3D games.)
 

WildcatJF

Let's Pock (Art @szk_tencho)
(he / his / him)
All right, so I'm up to 84 stars in SM64 now. Got through 100% up to Snowman's Land and all Secret Stars save the final Bowser level.

Still a wonderful game. It's just a couple little quibbles with controls and the camera, but I've genuinely enjoyed 99% of my playtime so far.
 

4-So

Spicy
Maybe I'll finally get around to playing Odyssey after these. Still haven't played it, and I'm very much in a Mario mood right now.

Yes, play Odyssey. I was so delighted by that game, in a way I hadn't been by Mario since, well, Galaxy.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
It had to have helped that, whereas some developers were caught flat-footed by the shift to 3D in the mid-'90s, Miyamoto had been designing a 3D Mario game in his head from the moment he heard Nintendo was making a machine more powerful than the Famicom. (The hardware engineers quickly explained to him it would be impossible on the SuFami, but the Super FX chip came about because he simply could not wait another hardware cycle to start making 3D games.)

I can't imagine what it must have felt like to be a developer then. You've just invented the wheel and then Miyamoto pops up in an SUV. For me it's the first modern 3D game.

I love the flying in Mario 64. It's basically the same as Mario World in theory and provided you leave up and down alone you glide really controllably. The Wing cap palace is mainly a problem for me because by the time you get to the final two red coins you've built up enough speed to rise - if you bring that under control you can circle round and get the remaning coins without having to land.
 

LBD_Nytetrayn

..and his little cat, too
(He/him)
Flying Mario in Galaxy has the Wing Cap beat by light years. I just wish they'd done more with it, and can't believe they couldn't find a single thing to do with it in Galaxy 2.

They even made a toy of it, for crying out loud!
 

RT-55J

space hero for hire
(He/Him + RT/artee)
I am not surprised that they never really did anything with the red star. The lack of any meaningful limitations on flight trajectory or interesting handling mechanics severely limited the opportunities to make challenges using power-up.
 

MCBanjoMike

Sudden chomper
(He/him)
I actually played Mario 64 on Wii VC about three months ago and I found it to be a really strange combination of "hey this is still fun!" and "aaaaaaaaaargh". I think the game gets less fun the harder the stages are, because of the camera (obviously) and Mario's tendency to run in a circle instead of turning in place. When you aren't being asked to play super precisely, it's great! Also I agree that the volcano ride star was a huuuuuuge pain in the ass to acquire. As for the flying, I enjoy it a lot in Mario 64 but it's very hard to be precise with it. I love flying around the volcano stage, but having to line up the red coins in the cap palace is really frustrating.

Despite my initial objections, I tried playing Galaxy using detached Joycons and I think I might just stick with them. I have so much muscle memory from the Wii game that I find it much more comfortable, despite how small they are. It's a little weird that you still have to recenter the pointer using the R button (since the right Joycon isn't actually looking at the screen, it's relying on its gyroscope), but the improved precision of the motion controls more than compensates. I played Bubble Breeze Galaxy last night and the controls were super tight, way less squirrely than with the Wiimote. I'm surprised at just how happy I am to play Galaxy in 1080p, it's really been fun to go back to - and it hasn't been long at all since I played it on the Wii!
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
It's been a long time since I played the original Galaxy on Wii, but from what I recall I have to agree - as you say, despite the weirdness of having to press R to recenter the pointer a lot (and the annoyance of having most menus be pointer-controller instead of using buttons ffs), the controls on this collection feel a lot better than I remember on Wii. And yeah - it looks incredible in 1080p.
 

muteKi

Geno Cidecity
Despite some irritations (like I'll never understand exactly what calls the eel out of the sunken ship, and Cool, Cool Mountain seems quite a lot harder than it should be at that point in the game) it's still a masterpiece.

Re JRB, in SM64DS I know the eel just winds up being more aggressive right from the start and will take a bite out of you if you get close enough to the ship.

I also agree with Cool, Cool Mountain which is to my mind far more in line with the other Mountain level for difficulty -- whereas in comparison I think Snow Man's Land is actually one of the easier levels (doubly so because it's one of the ones whose design basically prevents the stage from having any bottomless pits), with the only issue of its placement in the level order being that it's already pretty similar to Bob-Omb Battlefield except for the inclusion of the chill bully which breaks the pacing of the ideas taken from the basement area.

While CCM is one of the levels with the fewest changes between releases I do have to say that I think that I prefer almost all of the balance shifts in 64 DS with the removal of the death pits in stages like Whomp's Fortress and, yes, Tick-Tock Clock and the addition of extra coins to the water stages coming to mind in particular as good things that I wish weren't specific to the otherwise-stifled portable port,
 
At some point I just started swimming down to the ship, then up to the surface, then back down to the ship, and the eel is gone every time.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Snow Man's Land is actually one of the easier levels (doubly so because it's one of the ones whose design basically prevents the stage from having any bottomless pits), with the only issue of its placement in the level order being that it's already pretty similar to Bob-Omb Battlefield except for the inclusion of the chill bully which breaks the pacing of the ideas taken from the basement area.

Also you can't cheese the water / health mechanic in this one stage. But it's not hard, particularly.

Edit: I'd very much love a remastered version of Mario 64 DS with analogue controls. It's a really interesting take on the original.
 
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Bongo

excused from moderation duty
(he/him)
Staff member
It had to have helped that, whereas some developers were caught flat-footed by the shift to 3D in the mid-'90s, Miyamoto had been designing a 3D Mario game in his head from the moment he heard Nintendo was making a machine more powerful than the Famicom. (The hardware engineers quickly explained to him it would be impossible on the SuFami, but the Super FX chip came about because he simply could not wait another hardware cycle to start making 3D games.)
I can't imagine what it must have felt like to be a developer then. You've just invented the wheel and then Miyamoto pops up in an SUV. For me it's the first modern 3D game.
It's not entirely without antecedent, however. Mario's moveset in Donkey Kong '94 expresses a lot of similar concepts (to a much different end, of course). In particular, the interplay between how Mario is moving on the ground and the altitude he gains from a jump is much more sophisticated in these games than in any of the mainline 2D games.

You see things like the backflip, where you can get more altitude by coming to a complete stop; the side flip, where you jump higher by quickly turning around while moving at a full run; and the triple jump, where you're very limited in where you can deploy it but you get the most height of all (in DK '94, the handspring replaces the double jump in the sequence, but the principle holds).

DK '94 has you using these tools at a more deliberate speed in more compact environments compared to the wide openness of Mario 64's worlds, but it's a clue about what was on the team's mind as regards the intricacy of Mario's movement tech as they headed into the age of the Ultra 64. And the same basic vocabulary continues to apply through to present day.
 

Sarge

hardcore retro gamin'
It really is remarkable how well Mario 64 codified the 3D platformer. It's like everyone struggled to figure out how to get their stuff working in 3D well, and Nintendo's like "BAM!" First try.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
Credits on Galaxy, currently a 85 stars, and you better believe I'll be getting all 120. I'm not sure if I'll play the whole game again as Luigi, but I'm tempted - that's how good Galaxy is. I will always love and recommend Sunshine, but I admit Galaxy is the better game.
 

4-So

Spicy
Started up Galaxy tonight. Question: Is Nintendo aware of how phenomenal this game is? Fuckin' hell, this game is good. I don't want to give them ideas but I would have paid $60 just for this. I forgot just how utterly delightful and warm and fuzzy and charming the game is. It's almost embarassingly good.
 

Phantoon

I cuss you bad
Started up Galaxy tonight. Question: Is Nintendo aware of how phenomenal this game is? Fuckin' hell, this game is good. I don't want to give them ideas but I would have paid $60 just for this. I forgot just how utterly delightful and warm and fuzzy and charming the game is. It's almost embarassingly good.

It's also incredible how good it looks. They upgraded the resolution and that's it. The game is 13 years old, from technology that was old at the time.
 

Kazin

did i do all of that?
(he/him)
The level design, too, is a masterwork - I can't think of a single star in the 85 I've gotten so far that I thought was bad or dull.
 
It really is remarkable how well Mario 64 codified the 3D platformer. It's like everyone struggled to figure out how to get their stuff working in 3D well, and Nintendo's like "BAM!" First try.

It's also really interesting to see how well the game guides the player to goals. When I was a kid, it was such a brand new, wide open experience that the game felt huge and there were certain challenges I could never figure out on my own. Now, with decades of playing 3D games, it's easy to see how well guideposted the game is about nudging you in the right direction. Even the 100 Coin Challenges aren't too bad, if you play through all 6 stars on a level, it has already shown you all the areas of the map so you remember where to find coins.
 
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