& Knuckles all the way up.
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Sonic 3 & Knuckles: One game, two games, three games, or five games?
- Thread starter Kazin
- Start date
Becksworth
Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Sonic & Knuckles, but each level is replaced with the entirety of
It's four, if Knuckles The Echidna In Sonic The Hedgehog 2 does not count as an actual distinct Game but an enhancement of the base game.
Blue Sphere is unquestionably a Game, even if it might be considered a Mini-Game. It cannot be 880 distinct Games or 14 million distinct Games or whatever though, that's some real Counting Different Overlays On Pong As Separate Games energy.
Sonic The Hedgehog 3 is unquestionably a Game. You cannot release "Half A Game" unless it is expressly episodic. Even an explicit "Part 1" might qualify as a distinct Game from a "Part 2", although this is probably on a per example judgement basis.
Sonic The Hedgehog & Knuckles The Echidna is a Game by the same definition as the above. It is unquestionable, especially because it is not labeled as a Part 2.
I might be persuaded that Sonic The Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles The Echidna were not a distinct Game if it did not both remove and add substantial elements to both base components. I believe it creates a gestalt that is a distinct experience from playing each separate Game, and is therefore a Game itself.
Blue Sphere is unquestionably a Game, even if it might be considered a Mini-Game. It cannot be 880 distinct Games or 14 million distinct Games or whatever though, that's some real Counting Different Overlays On Pong As Separate Games energy.
Sonic The Hedgehog 3 is unquestionably a Game. You cannot release "Half A Game" unless it is expressly episodic. Even an explicit "Part 1" might qualify as a distinct Game from a "Part 2", although this is probably on a per example judgement basis.
Sonic The Hedgehog & Knuckles The Echidna is a Game by the same definition as the above. It is unquestionable, especially because it is not labeled as a Part 2.
I might be persuaded that Sonic The Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles The Echidna were not a distinct Game if it did not both remove and add substantial elements to both base components. I believe it creates a gestalt that is a distinct experience from playing each separate Game, and is therefore a Game itself.
To quote Thomas Aquinas, "A separate ROM is a bliss unto the hand of the righteous, for lo, each ROM is a new game, like each prayer an act of faith." Knuckles in Sonic 2 is a separate ROM and is therefore a distinct game. Just like Sonic 3 & Knuckles is a separate ROM and is a distinct game...
Dr. Strange: I used Sonic & Knuckles to look forward in time. To see all the possible configurations of the coming mini-game.
Star-Lord: How many did you see?
Dr. Strange: One hundred twenty eight million sixteen thousand.
Tony Stark: And how many were games?
Dr. Strange: ...One.
Alas, the unique nature of Lock-On Technology indicates that such things may not fit into the standard clades we place Games into each and every day. Surely you shall not suggest that a Final Fantasy 6 v1.1 ROM is a distinct Game from a v1.0 ROM, yet an examination of those bits will find them as different ROMs themselves.To quote Thomas Aquinas, "A separate ROM is a bliss unto the hand of the righteous, for lo, each ROM is a new game, like each prayer an act of faith." Knuckles in Sonic 2 is a separate ROM and is therefore a distinct game. Just like Sonic 3 & Knuckles is a separate ROM and is a distinct game...
Nor can it be a Remaster, Remake, or any of the varied "R" words with which Games shall be described. It is altogether similar to the Downloadable Content paradigm, wherein a new Game Mode is added thereafter to an existing Game, were it not for significantly predating the term and technology. Perhaps an Expansion if it had been offered separately as such? Again, I struggle to think of any other Game with which we can compare an identical circumstance.
Truth be told, it may simply be Knuckles The Echidna In Sonic The Hedgehog 2, and that may suffice.
I feel like Sonic 2 is going beyond the reach of the original question, honestly. It was about Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Sonic 2 fits nowhere in there. You can't have Sonic 3 & Knuckles with Sonic 2, you have to take out Sonic 3 to do that, in which case it's no longer Sonic 3 & Knuckles, it's Sonic 2 and Sonic & Knuckles making Knuckles the Echidna in Sonic the Hedgehog 2.
Surely, if the question is, "Is 'Sonic The Hedgehog 3 And Knuckles The Echidna' one game in and of itself?" the answer is Yes. The assumption I'd made was that the question was implicitly, "Does Sonic The Hedgehog And Knuckles The Echidna, being the sole known example of Lock-On Technology, create a multitude of Games via combination with Sonic The Hedgehog series or other Genesis/Mega Drive titles despite itself consisting of a single cartridge, and if so, how many Games are thus created?" And the answer to that question is hotly contested, even within one's own mind.
Well, also, Sonic 2 is just, in the Sonic & Knuckles cart. iirc it's like, the whole ROM, so putting the Sonic 2 cartridge on Sonic & Knuckles is basically just to tell the S&K cart to play the Sonic 2 & Knuckles ROM, which is why it feels like it's part o Sonic 3 & Knuckles to me lol
It's complicated and weird to think about!
Wait, really?
Huh... neat.
And after all the grousing about "SE-GA!" taking up half of Sonic 1.
Two games, but really I’m including Knuckles in Sonic 2 as one of them because it’s probably my favorite way to play Sonic 2 and I know it doesn’t count but I’m stubborn about it lol. Knew nothing about how Knuckles in Sonic 2 functioned, that’s really cool, thank you for the info Kazin.
Reading the Sonic Retro wiki article’s technical information section on it was pretty eye opening:
iirc Sonic 3 was built on top of Sonic 2 as part of its restarted rushed development cycle (hence why you can access level select by swapping carts after entering Sonic 2’s while the game is on), but I had no idea S&K contained most of Sonic 2. That’s fascinating.
Reading the Sonic Retro wiki article’s technical information section on it was pretty eye opening:
iirc Sonic 3 was built on top of Sonic 2 as part of its restarted rushed development cycle (hence why you can access level select by swapping carts after entering Sonic 2’s while the game is on), but I had no idea S&K contained most of Sonic 2. That’s fascinating.
Meanwhile, I didn't know this! lol I thought the whole ROM was run entirely off the Sonic & Knuckles chips.
Lock-On Technology just gets weirder and weirder...!
it's truly the power of the future!
This combined with your avatar cracked me up a lot, thank you. Blue Sphere will forever be the best special stage in a Sonic game
it almost could have been four. the initial plan for the Japanese release was to put both Sonic 3 and & Knuckles onto a single cartridge without the lock-on support. but it was canned.
this "Limited Edition" was also intended to get a US/EU version later on, but it was similarly never released.
Sonic 3 Standalone > Sonic & Knuckles Standalone > Sonic 3 & Knuckles > Sonic 3+ (the internal name for the combo cart)
- from issue 285 of Famitsu.
this "Limited Edition" was also intended to get a US/EU version later on, but it was similarly never released.
Sonic 3 Standalone > Sonic & Knuckles Standalone > Sonic 3 & Knuckles > Sonic 3+ (the internal name for the combo cart)