Sprite
(He/Him/His)
Time to party like it’s 2009!
I am tentatively interested in this, though I don’t know how easy it will be to convince anyone to play with me. It doesn’t look particularly unique as MOBAs go.
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Pokémon Unite: PokeMOBA
- Thread starter Sprite
- Start date
Time to party like it’s 2009!
I am tentatively interested in this, though I don’t know how easy it will be to convince anyone to play with me. It doesn’t look particularly unique as MOBAs go.
I'll definitely try this. I had my time in the sun with MOBAs, but if they do enough to make it breezy to jump in and out of then I'm for it. It'll have the same problem as every other MOBA in that I won't dedicate near the time I need to be good or even explore being good, but this is also probably something I could play with my partner while they have their kids and such.
MOBAs are great, just so long as you come in with the right attitude and there's robust enough matchmaking so you aren't getting curbstomped by smurfs or ppl way above your pay grade.
To me, the appeal is that they're RPGs, where you condense a 60 hour grind-a-thon into 30 mins or so. But instead of replaying the same game over and over, each one offers you a brand new experience like you're playing a fighting game - since nobody plays the same way, and the variety of characters to play always mixes things up.
They definitely can have steep learning curves, and when you're getting pooped on it's no fun. But I've rarely had as much fun in video games as pulling off some crazy stunt in a moba and winning the game off of it. They can be very rewarding experiences.
In my experience, these kinds of kid-friendly versions are a lot more simple to get into vs your LoLs and DOTAs. But being kid-friendly also means there's also likely a lack of depth in the mechanics that really gives these games long lasting legs.
Sprite
(He/Him/His)
Geez this opening really makes you confront how screwed up it is to just attack wild Pokémon and capture them randomly. Especially when they seem to have been rounded up and set loose in a coliseum.
I’m also mildly off-put by the Digimon-esque de-evolving at the start of the match.
This has been Sprite Reacts to Cutscenes Before Work. Thanks for listening.
I'm having a blast with this. Good variety so far, and the way moves progress allow you to actually go through the game different even with the same characters. I haven't played enough to know if there's just always a "right" choice, but it seems like all i've tried are sufficient. Been using a lot of eldegoss, and there definitely is a feel of differentiation in roles. It's annoying getting 20 assists, but ending low on points because i never have anything to slam, but im a team player.
Even more than the game itself, I'm enjoying watching the meta of this game slowly shake out. Which I think is honestly the most interesting/fascinating part of a multiplayer game's lifespan, where it's brand new and nobody knows what to do yet. Pokemon is such a popular and broad property that the majority of people coming in to play this game don't seem to have the first clue of how a MOBA is played, so if you walk in knowing just the most fundamental basics of how to play a MOBA like DOTA or League, you're going to be doing a lot of effortless pub stomping.
People are beginning to explore the intricacies (or lack there of) of the combat system, and woof. Once people start actually learning how to play MOBAs, and anyone too casual to learn such business starts bouncing off the game, there's going to be a reckoning for Unite with regards to how broken/imbalanced some of its systems are. Take for instance, the Held Item system. Like League and other MOBAs, you can equip items out of game that give you small passive boosts. Or at least, they're small initially. These items can be upgraded slowly over time into more powerful boosts. Whjch would take months of intense, dedicated play to even upgrade just a little. But you can also skip the upgrade process completely with boosters paid for with premium F2P currency. And if you whale out on this game, they can actually be game breaking as they are currently designed:
Like, peep this vid. The guy spends $100 and is 2-shoting other pokes at lvl 6. It's completely nasty and is mega dumb. Especially the ones that fully boost crits, movement speed, and attack. Unite is a fun casual experience, especially how games always end after 10 mins. But if they don't fix these kinds of things, I can see the game becoming boring, repetitive, and toxic in a hurry. I've already watched friends of mine do some grotesque fountain farming. I'll be very interested in seeing if this game will be responsive to its player base and tackle these obvious issues, or if the dev will just ignore it until the game becomes a toxic nightmare.
People are beginning to explore the intricacies (or lack there of) of the combat system, and woof. Once people start actually learning how to play MOBAs, and anyone too casual to learn such business starts bouncing off the game, there's going to be a reckoning for Unite with regards to how broken/imbalanced some of its systems are. Take for instance, the Held Item system. Like League and other MOBAs, you can equip items out of game that give you small passive boosts. Or at least, they're small initially. These items can be upgraded slowly over time into more powerful boosts. Whjch would take months of intense, dedicated play to even upgrade just a little. But you can also skip the upgrade process completely with boosters paid for with premium F2P currency. And if you whale out on this game, they can actually be game breaking as they are currently designed:
Like, peep this vid. The guy spends $100 and is 2-shoting other pokes at lvl 6. It's completely nasty and is mega dumb. Especially the ones that fully boost crits, movement speed, and attack. Unite is a fun casual experience, especially how games always end after 10 mins. But if they don't fix these kinds of things, I can see the game becoming boring, repetitive, and toxic in a hurry. I've already watched friends of mine do some grotesque fountain farming. I'll be very interested in seeing if this game will be responsive to its player base and tackle these obvious issues, or if the dev will just ignore it until the game becomes a toxic nightmare.
I realize that the people spending real world money on this have a far bigger advantage, but I am still enjoying playing this game a lot.
I mean,
Cramorant for Smash!
I mean,
Cramorant for Smash!
Yea I'm still enjoying it. I'm not running into many people that feel like they're just baseline more powerful, though I'm not that far in (just barely have unlocked item upgrading myself)
It's also funny little people seem to care about roles. Just routinely go into matches with 3 attacking pokemon. I think this game is designed to be open like that anyway (compared to DOTA or LOL), but it's the wild west out there.
It's also funny little people seem to care about roles. Just routinely go into matches with 3 attacking pokemon. I think this game is designed to be open like that anyway (compared to DOTA or LOL), but it's the wild west out there.
The player base so far seems big enough and newbie enough that any whaling shenanigans is probably going to be diluted/seldom come by. And even if you come across someone who cleans your clocks, it's not like DOTA2 where you may have to endure an hour+ of it with no recourse. Games only last a max of 10 mins, and your team can concede too if it's obviously a shitshow. So one bad game won't ruin your day. So for now, I don't think it'll affect most people's enjoyment and the game is still fun. It's just something to keep an eye on IMO as an indicator of if this game is going to receive the kinds of robust support that would give this legs, or if it'll be doomed to being a mercurial flash in the pan.
So hey, this game is fun! My problem with it is that, as someone with MOBA experience, it can get EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING. Like...I know some people playing are kids, and some people just don't know how MOBAs work, but good Lord. GOOD LORD. I'm kinda perpetually always shocked by how long it takes people to learn stuff about video game mechanics (ex. running a FFXIV Raid and seeing someone get hit and instant killed by the same attack every single time), but some of the strategies people come up with are just nuts, and completely ruin the game.
Like, I started playing YESTERDAY and it only took me a few games to get up to speed; one person's jungle clears get them to 5, they go gank. Support and carry bottom lane, defender/attacker top. Dreadnaw is essential, Rotom is nice but ultimately okay to sacrifice, Zapdos and Dreadnaw can be stolen if you're tricky and on the right kind of character. And, of course, do not overextend or chase ever. Easy peasy.
...then I go run a Jungler, say in chat that I'm going mid multiple times, and then a carry just follows me into the jungle!? Now I can't hit 5 and I can't gank! Like...fuckin'...go away! I had a game where FOUR PEOPLE all went top lane, leaving our jungle open, and only one person bottom. Complete madness! Lucky I went bottom and the other team fed us like crazy and I got MVP...but still!
It's frustrating in the moment, but I know people just like...don't get MOBAs. It took me hundreds of hours of LoL to get it, and now I can jump into this really easily. But I can't get over that frustration. THAT SAID, when you get on a team of people who know what's up, it feels GREAT. And the 10 minute time limit makes games really fast and easily digestible.
Really digging Eldegoss and Wigglytuff, and Slowbro I think I've lost two games total with? He's an absolute monster. Snorlax is supposed to be better, but I love my dumb boy too much. Charizard is...okay...I've had good games with him but he's just kinda weak. Gonna experiment with Cramorant and Ninetales today, then probably get mad and go back to Goss and Bro
ALSO PSA: you get Venusaur, Slowbro, Crustle, Greninja, Cinderace, and Ninetales for free. Don't buy them, and you'll have them from log ins/low level level ups within 14 days. Don't buy them! I feel like I'm forgetting someone else too lol.
ALSO YOU CAN TRY ANYONE IN PRACTICE MODE. Try before you buy!
Edit: Okay, everyone keeps doing this and it's so frustrating. Don't do 3 people in a lane! If two people call top, go bottom! If someone calls Jungle, DO NOT GO TO THE JUNGLE. The jungler needs all the monsters to hit 5 and ambush the laners. If you take even ONE creep from the jungle, they can't hit 5. Arghjaadblarghfghhghgkalsdjka
Like, I started playing YESTERDAY and it only took me a few games to get up to speed; one person's jungle clears get them to 5, they go gank. Support and carry bottom lane, defender/attacker top. Dreadnaw is essential, Rotom is nice but ultimately okay to sacrifice, Zapdos and Dreadnaw can be stolen if you're tricky and on the right kind of character. And, of course, do not overextend or chase ever. Easy peasy.
...then I go run a Jungler, say in chat that I'm going mid multiple times, and then a carry just follows me into the jungle!? Now I can't hit 5 and I can't gank! Like...fuckin'...go away! I had a game where FOUR PEOPLE all went top lane, leaving our jungle open, and only one person bottom. Complete madness! Lucky I went bottom and the other team fed us like crazy and I got MVP...but still!
It's frustrating in the moment, but I know people just like...don't get MOBAs. It took me hundreds of hours of LoL to get it, and now I can jump into this really easily. But I can't get over that frustration. THAT SAID, when you get on a team of people who know what's up, it feels GREAT. And the 10 minute time limit makes games really fast and easily digestible.
Really digging Eldegoss and Wigglytuff, and Slowbro I think I've lost two games total with? He's an absolute monster. Snorlax is supposed to be better, but I love my dumb boy too much. Charizard is...okay...I've had good games with him but he's just kinda weak. Gonna experiment with Cramorant and Ninetales today, then probably get mad and go back to Goss and Bro
ALSO PSA: you get Venusaur, Slowbro, Crustle, Greninja, Cinderace, and Ninetales for free. Don't buy them, and you'll have them from log ins/low level level ups within 14 days. Don't buy them! I feel like I'm forgetting someone else too lol.
ALSO YOU CAN TRY ANYONE IN PRACTICE MODE. Try before you buy!
Edit: Okay, everyone keeps doing this and it's so frustrating. Don't do 3 people in a lane! If two people call top, go bottom! If someone calls Jungle, DO NOT GO TO THE JUNGLE. The jungler needs all the monsters to hit 5 and ambush the laners. If you take even ONE creep from the jungle, they can't hit 5. Arghjaadblarghfghhghgkalsdjka
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Yeah, as someone who hasn't MOBA'd, I have absolutely no idea what a single sentence in here means, and I bet you're getting a lot of people pulled in by the franchise skin that are similarly clueless.
(I mean, from reading your whole post, I'm picking up from context that someone needs to go into the "jungle" (is this a lane, or in between lanes? I barely know what a lane is) and... I guess kill lots of NPC mooks to level up and be good at killing opponents? But only one person can do this because the NPCs are limited? Something like that? And I have no idea support classes and attack/defend classes go different directions? MOBAs are weird.)
Alixsar's post may sound a lot like crazy talk, but I'm dead certain that "jungle" means the center region of the map. That's where the Bouffalant and Ludicolo spawn, which give attack and defense boosts respectively to the one who does the killing fainting blow.
Defeating Drednaw gives boosts to your team's shields and offing Zapdos gives points to everyone on your team who's still alive and temporarily leaves the opposition's goals defenseless.
Rotom can temporarily disable a goal's defenses if defeated then successfully escorted to it. Useful in the right situation, but not as vital as the other two.
Defeating Drednaw gives boosts to your team's shields and offing Zapdos gives points to everyone on your team who's still alive and temporarily leaves the opposition's goals defenseless.
Rotom can temporarily disable a goal's defenses if defeated then successfully escorted to it. Useful in the right situation, but not as vital as the other two.
So you actually have it spot on. There's a limited amount of dudes in the center area; the "jungle". How the jungle looks is different in each MOBA, but since this one has only two lanes, it's basically just anything in the middle on your half of the map. The two biggest dudes in the jungle give you a special buff that lets you kill stuff faster, and if you kill ALL of them solo, you have enough to hit level 5 on every character. There's a character type called "Speedster" that as you may imagine is super fast, so they're ideal for fast jungle clears, but other characters are good at it too. Once you hit 5, people in the lanes will be level 4 or 3 if they're doing poorly, so you jump in and outnumber the other team. They have a jungler too (uh, probably), so he can also show up at some point, so if you're in lane you have to watch out for them and hope yours is watching out and coming to back you up if you're in trouble. I have no idea what the meta for LoL or DotA is anymore, but this concept has been around forever.
But yeah, the jungler NEEDS those buffs and needs ALL the experience to be effective. I've lately seen lots of junglers start attacking the creeps that are on the way to top or bottom lane from the start too, and this hurts the top or bottom lane's experience. Everyone is sabotaging everyone, and it's wild.
The meta is currently defender and attacker top lane since it gives less experience than bottom; carry and support go bottom. Carries are people who are weak early game but end up super strong late game, so you want them to get as much exp as possible. Support usually don't need much to be effective, so they're a natural pair. You can give up Rotom (an NPC that spawns and makes it easier to capture points) in top lane because even if you lose one tower in top, the game spawns more creeps in top lane as a catch up mechanic than it would if you lost a bottom lane. Bottom lane also has Dreadnaw, which gives a shield and tons of exp to the whole team, and level advantage is literally everything so this ends up being way better.
...but new players don't know this. They just run in solo on 3 guys and expect to be okay when I'm already backing off several seconds before they go in. Game sense is absolutely a thing you need to/will develop, but it's definitely not consistent. You can tell who's played MOBAs before and who has not. It's also worth noting that the game has a lot of catch up mechanics and flexibility...but as you rank up, people are going to exploit that so you have to be careful to not develop bad habits.
I complained about this on Twitter, and it was brought up that the game doesn't tell you any of this, which is a valid point. Kinda none of the MOBAs do? It's a missed opportunity for sure. I'm trying to slog through the low ranks as fast as possible so I can get to where I can consistently rely on teammates.
yea they really should have had a tutorial about lanes. they sort of have it built in (on an team with different roles, they'll point to the lane you should go), but a 5 minute tutorial about where to go given your role would be extremely helpful to a crowd of a: young players who haven't played many MOBA and b: console players who haven't played many MOBA
I think that helps AND hurts at the same time. Like okay, let me spell it out. Lets say we have a Ninetales and Snorlax; Attacker and Defender respectively. They'd be great top lane. And let's say there's a Machamp and Eldegoss. Machamp is a strong carry and Eldegoss is a good support, so a natural bottom lane. Then we have a Cinderace. Okay, well...Cinderace can jungle pretty well so this works out. Cinderace is also a really strong carry in practice, so he could go bottom. ...but Cinderace's TYPE is Attacker and Attackers are auto directed to go top lane. So if the Cinderace player is new, they might end up going top lane, ruining the Snorlax/Ninetales' day, and leaving the team with no jungle.
The game is a lot more flexible than other MOBAs; in most MOBAs characters are HARD LOCKED into their role and their skills make them good at literally nothing else except doing their role. But here, using this example, Machamp can jungle well too. So if Machamp abandoned bottom lane for the jungle, and Cinderace noticed the Eldegoss was by itself and went bottom, it could be salvagable. There's enough comeback mechanics that getting off to a bad start isn't the end.
...that said, it can all still be real, real frustrating. Some better tutorials for new players would be nice.
The game is a lot more flexible than other MOBAs; in most MOBAs characters are HARD LOCKED into their role and their skills make them good at literally nothing else except doing their role. But here, using this example, Machamp can jungle well too. So if Machamp abandoned bottom lane for the jungle, and Cinderace noticed the Eldegoss was by itself and went bottom, it could be salvagable. There's enough comeback mechanics that getting off to a bad start isn't the end.
...that said, it can all still be real, real frustrating. Some better tutorials for new players would be nice.
well, even in more rigid MOBAs you can have fluid team comps. Lots of supports that could mid lane or junglers that can solo, etc. I think the problem is the game doesn't even really let the player know that lanes and roles are thing that matter and are tied together, so it's not that players who don't know their roles are going out of place, it just feels like you get a lot of teams with 3 attackers and an all arounder and they just shuffle around until there are people doing things. I think that clears up in time and with more characters though.
Attackers have seven options: Venusaur, Alolan Ninetales, Cinderace, Cramorant, Greninja, Pikachu, and the recently-added Gardevoir. Out of those Venusaur is a gift for reaching Rank 5; Alolan Ninetales, Cinderace, and Greninja are part of the current 14 days of gifts; and Pikachu is one of the starters that can be chosen.
Tied for second place with four options are All-Arounders (Charizard, Machamp, Garchomp, Lucario) and Speedsters (Zeraora, Absol, Gengar, Talonflame). Charizard and Talonflame are both starter options and Zeraora is a free gift 'til August 31.
And tied for third with three options are Supporters (Wigglytuff, Eldegoss, Mr. Mime) and Defenders (Slowbro, Crustle, Snorlax). Eldegoss and Snorlax are starters there, Slowbro is a Rank 2 reward, and you can get Crustle by doing all the Challenge tasks from the first seven days.
So not counting the starter you choose you have four free attackers for basically just playing the game, one free Speedster, one Defender that's practically given to you, and one that takes more work to get, with the very real possibility that Ranked Match players may have no Support or All-Arounder licenses. And the first new addition to the game is both an Attacker and a Pokémon that has a huge following in theporn fan art scene.
Is it any wonder that Attackers are the majority right now?
Tied for second place with four options are All-Arounders (Charizard, Machamp, Garchomp, Lucario) and Speedsters (Zeraora, Absol, Gengar, Talonflame). Charizard and Talonflame are both starter options and Zeraora is a free gift 'til August 31.
And tied for third with three options are Supporters (Wigglytuff, Eldegoss, Mr. Mime) and Defenders (Slowbro, Crustle, Snorlax). Eldegoss and Snorlax are starters there, Slowbro is a Rank 2 reward, and you can get Crustle by doing all the Challenge tasks from the first seven days.
So not counting the starter you choose you have four free attackers for basically just playing the game, one free Speedster, one Defender that's practically given to you, and one that takes more work to get, with the very real possibility that Ranked Match players may have no Support or All-Arounder licenses. And the first new addition to the game is both an Attacker and a Pokémon that has a huge following in the
Is it any wonder that Attackers are the majority right now?
tbf I have yet to see a moba that that actually does a decent job teaching a brand new player all of the complicated rules. Especially when a lot of them are dependent on an intentionally very fluid meta that shifts continually with updates.
Dota used to be very strict, 2 dudes in each lane, then 1 mid. Mid hits a certain level then ganks. Then cheeky players started jungling and getting an edge up. Then supports began roaming between lanes to gank other lanes like mid. It all shifts depending on what's popular and how the game is being balanced. A lot of playing mobas is just being observant of what the winners in your games do, and also having friends who will have the patience to teach you how to really play. And unite is simple/streamlined enough that even if you aren't doing 1337 moba skills, you can still have fun.
The problem some of my friends have been having with the game however, is blatant bot accounts making games terrible. I'm kinda shocked there are bots already for this game, and I don't have a lot of faith that Ninty will get a grip on that kind of stuff early.
Dota used to be very strict, 2 dudes in each lane, then 1 mid. Mid hits a certain level then ganks. Then cheeky players started jungling and getting an edge up. Then supports began roaming between lanes to gank other lanes like mid. It all shifts depending on what's popular and how the game is being balanced. A lot of playing mobas is just being observant of what the winners in your games do, and also having friends who will have the patience to teach you how to really play. And unite is simple/streamlined enough that even if you aren't doing 1337 moba skills, you can still have fun.
The problem some of my friends have been having with the game however, is blatant bot accounts making games terrible. I'm kinda shocked there are bots already for this game, and I don't have a lot of faith that Ninty will get a grip on that kind of stuff early.
Certainly not; even in games with bigger rosters, people tend to gravitate to the ones that can do insane damage and make big plays with. Most people don't want to play Support, they want to be Support-ed. Even if they were the minority, there will be tons of them in game. I think I've seen a Cinderace in every game I've played? I mean, yeah, he's way strong, but still. Kinda wild.
I don't think it's bot accounts, I think it's part of the game. There are definitely 100% absolutely for sure games where you fight bots, but they seem to happen after 2 or 3 consecutive losses. I think it's a mechanic to make it so people don't get upset or tilted at losing multiple games...but it's always super noticeable when it IS bots, and it's so easy that it's not even satisfying. It's almost condescending lol
This game is very fun and I greatly appreciate that Crustle is playable at all. I probably wouldn't have even considered it if my favorite Pokémon wasn't there and playable, but they are, so I'm happy.
I am, however, less happy about basically everything that isn't the gameplay. The mechanics are ridiculously opaque, with barely any detailed stats listed for Pokémon. Leveling up hold items is dumb as hell and a clear attempt to bilk more money out of whale-inclined players, and any dev with half a scruple to their name would just give you the fixed effect of the level 20 item and call it good. The rate at which you get resources ingame is insulting low, especially this new two-week event that rewards enough item enhancers to level an item from 1 to 2 (and no further). And, as stated above, the distribution of rules is incredibly lopsided, especially with the addition of Gardevoir as an Attacker (instead of Supporter or Defender that would, y'know, actually fit its lore and archetype).
Worst of all, when I filled out a feedback survey for the game, the questions they posed made their priorities very clear, with some of the options they pose including stat boosts on cosmetics you're likely going to have to pay real-world money for.
Again, the game is great and I'm going to keep playing it, but I ain't giving them a single doubloon of my meagre hoard.
I am, however, less happy about basically everything that isn't the gameplay. The mechanics are ridiculously opaque, with barely any detailed stats listed for Pokémon. Leveling up hold items is dumb as hell and a clear attempt to bilk more money out of whale-inclined players, and any dev with half a scruple to their name would just give you the fixed effect of the level 20 item and call it good. The rate at which you get resources ingame is insulting low, especially this new two-week event that rewards enough item enhancers to level an item from 1 to 2 (and no further). And, as stated above, the distribution of rules is incredibly lopsided, especially with the addition of Gardevoir as an Attacker (instead of Supporter or Defender that would, y'know, actually fit its lore and archetype).
Worst of all, when I filled out a feedback survey for the game, the questions they posed made their priorities very clear, with some of the options they pose including stat boosts on cosmetics you're likely going to have to pay real-world money for.
Again, the game is great and I'm going to keep playing it, but I ain't giving them a single doubloon of my meagre hoard.
In all fairness, Sp. Attack is Gardevoir's highest stat. And while they definitely could've fit into the Support or Defender role given their natural learnset and second highest stat (Sp. Defense), it's nice that this very feminine Pokémon isn't slotted into a stereotypical female jRPG role. I mean, it's bad enough their debut Holowear is a frickin' bonnet.
With that said, if Gallade ever gets in I want him in a Defender or Support role. I know those sword arms can do some damage, but he has moves for protecting a group. Use them.
With that said, if Gallade ever gets in I want him in a Defender or Support role. I know those sword arms can do some damage, but he has moves for protecting a group. Use them.
Good: the Score Shield is an amazing item for Crustle to have at any level. If they use Rubble Rouser, the Score Shield all but guarantees a score, no matter how many points you have stashed.
Bad: the patch notes make the early Smash Ultimate patches seem meticulously detailed. I saw one person refer to them as "patch hints".
Bad: the patch notes make the early Smash Ultimate patches seem meticulously detailed. I saw one person refer to them as "patch hints".