LttP: Super Mario Odyssey - "That's my secret, Cap. I'm always platforming."

[Kazin]

I started this up last night after getting 120 stars in Mario Galaxy, and I'm having a good time with it. I'm hoping there's eventually some sort of guide to how many moons there are in each zone - I know there's supposedly a lot of moons in the whole game, but having unfrozen the ice in the (mildly racist?) desert level, I'm still having fun searching the place and solving little puzzles and whatnot.

I like most of the art direction, but it is weird to see like a "real" looking T-rex attack a chain chomp. I kind of think it clashes in a bad way? Like it's not going to ruin the game for me or anything - it's too fun for that - but also seeing "real" looking humans is odd, too. There was a guy with a real looking car stuck under some ice in the desert and he was in a suit and it was like "wtf" but not in the way I want lol. The wedding planner rabbit characters are ugly and annoying. These are nitpicks, though, because most importantly, the puzzle design is solid. After I unfroze the desert, I went over to the oasis I saw when I first got to the zone and took control of a Lakitu which I then used to catch a giant fish that had a moon. It ruled. I also enjoyed finding a rocket on a rooftop that took me to an area that took away my hat for some platforming - a direct callback to the FLUDD-less levels in Sunshine, which made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I bet those get very difficult later on, I look forward to it.

Mario feels a little slippery to control, but then every 3D Mario game takes some adjustment time after switching from a different one, and I just played through two of them in a row (Galaxy felt weird after Sunshine, Sunshine felt weird after 64, etc. You get used to them all with some playtime). I don't really like the motion control stuff with Cappy, though it doesn't feel super necessary to use (yet - though I assume that probably changes).

So, I have a few questions:

1. the coins that can only be spent in certain worlds, like the purple triangle things in the desert world - those seem finite. Should I be careful what I buy with them, or should I just go hog wild? I assume if I collect them all, I can buy everything in the shop with them...

2. there were green dots in the HUD that indicated how many moons I'd collected, that reset/disappeared after I unfroze the desert/beat the boss of the area. Were those just indicating how many moons I needed to collect to power up my ship?

 

[Lokii]

1. Go hog wild
2. Yes

 

[Cyrael]

1. the coins that can only be spent in certain worlds, like the purple triangle things in the desert world - those seem finite. Should I be careful what I buy with them, or should I just go hog wild? I assume if I collect them all, I can buy everything in the shop with them...

There are enough coins to wipe out the vendor of all the stuff. I typically (spoiler for some gameplay stuff) prioritized the costumes as there is typically a moon that requires you to dress up. But there are SO MANY MOONS it doesn't really matter.

 

[Kazin]

There are enough coins to wipe out the vendor of all the stuff. I typically (spoiler for some gameplay stuff) prioritized the costumes as there is typically a moon that requires you to dress up. But there are SO MANY MOONS it doesn't really matter.

Ah, I thought they were just for aesthetic reasons. Well, good to know! I was planning on buying most of the costumes anyway.

 

[muteKi]

I assume if I collect them all, I can buy everything in the shop with them...

This is in fact correct. Also, a bowser amiibo will allow you to find any you may have missed, but they're usually not hidden TOO far out of the way.

 

[Zef]

Did anyone else have difficulty jumping straight into Odyssey from the 2D Marios? I never played 64 or Sunshine, and played maybe a single world of Galaxy, so when I played Odyssey for the first time in June I had a very hard time getting into it, and basically gave up on it as soon as a more engaging distraction came along. I only made it as far as clearing the storm away from New Donk City so I don't know how far into the game I am.

I also don't know how essential all these collectibles are. Rare's Donkey Kong Country became too much of a chore since the "complete" endings were locked behind collectibles, and I've heard Galaxy gives you Luigi as a reward for getting all the stars.

 

[4-So]

I honestly don't know anyone who hasn't played a previous 3D Mario, with Odyssey as their first. Exciting! Yes, I can see where it would be a bit jarring. There's something fundamentally different about navigating the 3D space of those titles than the hop-and-bop of 2D. The 3D games are also... tonally different, I guess? I'm having a hard time putting it into words. Maybe not tone per se but the headspace required to play each is different; unique skills involved with making your way through a 3D Mario vs. a 2D Mario.

I love Odyssey but I never finished it. Think I might start over once I finish out Galaxy, which I also didn't finish the first time I played it, now that I think about it.

 

[YangusKhan]

You beat me to making this thread. I bought Odyssey last week instead of 3D All-Stars, and now I'm basically at the end of the game. It's soooooo good. It does an excellent job of making me feel like a Brain Genius every time I find a moon that's hidden a little out the way, and there's dozens of those in every Kingdom. I love how the levels always "progress forward" instead of the way previous games did it where you'd have to pick a specific Star to make the level have specific stuff in it. It creates a lot of forward momentum and makes it difficult to stop playing until I "finish" the whole Kingdom.

 

[Kazin]

I found the bit in the menu where it tells you how many moons are in each area. The desert has 69! (Nice.)

I'm in the wooded area now, since I can't figure out how to get the moons I know about in the desert. I'm finding it hard to move on because I want to get everything lol

 

[Kazin]

Alright I'm wearing a 40s zoot suit. You've sold me on New Donk City and the realistically proportioned humans, Nintendo lol

 

[Troa11]

Re collecting everything on one pass:

Spoiler

There's a huge post-game sweep with even more moons that show up after you beat the last story world. Don't sweat it until you get there.

 

[Kazin]

Re collecting everything on one pass:

Spoiler

There's a huge post-game sweep with even more moons that show up after you beat the last story world. Don't sweat it until you get there.

Dang, okay. Yeah, I'm not sweating it - I'm having fun trying to find as much as I can, then moving on. I think I have about half the ones in New Donk City? At least half of what's listed in the menu, anyway.

Does anyone else kind of find the music underwhelming in Odyssey? I know I'm alone in hating the song Mayor Pauline sings, but the music in the woods was driving me bananas. It's repetitive and doesn't fit that area at all imo... although I might be unfair to Odyssey since I just finished Galaxy, which has a fantastic soundtrack.

 

[Lokii]

Doesn't fit the area: good.
Repetitive: yeah.

 

[Zef]

I honestly don't know anyone who hasn't played a previous 3D Mario, with Odyssey as their first. Exciting! Yes, I can see where it would be a bit jarring. There's something fundamentally different about navigating the 3D space of those titles than the hop-and-bop of 2D. The 3D games are also... tonally different, I guess? I'm having a hard time putting it into words. Maybe not tone per se but the headspace required to play each is different; unique skills involved with making your way through a 3D Mario vs. a 2D Mario.

The way it feels to me is, in a word, "heavy". In a 2D Mario I can just hold B or Y and take off running, perform split-second actions and reactions to the enemy placement and environmental hazards, do fairly complicated platforming, and practice practice practice to use the flight and projectile powerups with precision. The new dimension in 3D Mario means that actions have to be a LOT more deliberate--you have to aim Mario just right so his fireballs connect, so he stomps that Goomba right in the center, so he lands squarely on the platform. If your angle is skewed just a bit, you'll fail, get hit, or fall into a pit. Also, it's a LOT more difficult to gauge where your jump will land in terms of velocity. Sometimes I DO line up Mario just right, but I'm not running fast enough or slow enough and I under- or over-shoot the landing and I have to circle back to try again. And while 2D Mario had inertia--that's what gave him speed, but it also meant having to accelerate from a standstill-- it only affected him on the 2D plane, while it affects 3D Mario from all angles. So not only are the jumps themselves affected, but he has to "circle around" to change directions or to make adjustments instead of just turning on a dime. Therefore, lining him up to perform the above actions takes time. Hence, "he feels heavy". I mean, it takes me about ten seconds to stomp a Goomba (five if I'm already lined up.)

OTOH, I love the Paper Mario games including Super Paper Mario, but their approach to 3D is to just add depth to 2D platforming rather than to make it fully-immersive 3D.

 

[Phantoon]

I think 3D World may be more what you're looking for, it's very much a 3D 2D game.

 

[FelixSH]

Yeah, it's best to look at Mario 64, Sunshine, the Galaxy's and Odyssee as a different genre, because they are. 2D Marios are, essentially, action games, platformers first and foremost, with some exploration and puzzle elements included.

The mentioned 3D games are primarily exploration games that also include platforming and puzzles.

The atmosphere is similar, but the gameplay is very different. If you want them to be the same genre, you can only find disappointment.

3D Land/World is way more a 2D Mario with 3D enhancements. Phantoon is right, these games might be more what you are looking for.

 

[Kazin]

Galaxy is the closest of the series to an action game, but it is more puzzle-y than one of the 2D games. Give Galaxy a shot, too, it's less meandering.

 

[Bongo]

Donkey Kong '94, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, and Super Mario Odyssey represent a continuous line of development.

 

[muteKi]

I disagree. Galaxy 2 is much more of a dry run for 3D Land and World using some specific engine components of Galaxy in terms of how its levels are structured. It is much more like 3D Land but with weird gravity.

Odyssey is clearly informed by those 3 games in multiple ways (the way secrets are hidden, some specific decisions about how the game controls like swimming), but it is fundamentally a different experience.

 

[Kishi]

Galaxy is something else, and even Sunshine significantly gets away from what Super Mario 64 was with its abundance of single-purpose instances of stages. There are specific shout-outs to 64 later in Odyssey, and it's not just a general-purpose nostalgia thing. Even the developers acknowledge it as the first true follow-up to the free-wheeling spirit of that game.

 

[Daikaiju]

But there are SO MANY MOONS it doesn't really matter.

 

[Juno]

I wasn't as high on Odyssey as the other 3D platformers, and I think the sheer number of moons is a large reason why. Getting a star in 64/Sunshine/Galaxy usually felt like a decent accomplishment. But moons are so plentiful that it just feels "ok, great I guess". Eventually while playing Odyssey I realized that number of moons combined with the esoteric manner that many of them were hidden in (see the video above) meant that I would never get all of them. That was kind of deflating for me, especially since I had counted getting 120 stars in SM64 as a big accomplishment the first time I had done it.

Still loved New Donk City though.

 

[Daikaiju]

I think the difference between 64 and Odyssey, is the latter is more about the journey than the goal. The moons are just icing on one helluva a cake. Case in point: unlike 64, Sunshire, or Galaxy, the game doesn't pull you out once you find a moon. You can just keep mucking around.

 

[Gaer]

Meanwhile I had more fun with Odyssey than I am with Galaxy. I usually don’t like 3D Mario games, but Odyssey was great.

I think part of it is that you didn’t end the level if you got a moon. I always hate being taken out of a stage with a star.

 

[Phantoon]

I prefer Odyssey to Galaxy too. Scratches that Mario 64 itch like no game before or since.

 

[Kazin]

Odyssey is fun, but so far I think I prefer Galaxy. It's just more efficient at getting me to The Good Shit - it just throws challenge after challenge at me while Odyssey requires me to go search them out myself. Neither approach is bad - I do get the appeal of exploring - but I get bored more quickly wandering around giant environments looking for puzzles/challenges than if the game just lays them out in front of me with no downtime.

If anything, Odyssey's moons remind me of Sunshine's blue coins - they're scattered about everywhere and you have very few clues to find most of them. They're less of a pain than the blue coins, of course, because there's only the one "instance" of a level (sort of), and since the game discourages completionism, you don't have the urge to find them all, but the moons really feel to me like Nintendo said let's do blue coins right and made the whole game about them.

 

[Gaer]

I’m playing Galaxy now, mostly for the first time due to the Wii being very left handed unfriendly ironically enough.

And. It drives me nuts to be hauled out of a level once I find a Star. The level design (and I know I’m early on yet) hasn’t knocked my socks off either.

Meanwhile Odyssey grabbed me from the beginning just by dropping me in a level and saying: “Go. Hunt. Moons for the Moon Throne.”

 

[Kazin]

I’m playing Galaxy now, mostly for the first time due to the Wii being very left handed unfriendly ironically enough.

Yeah, it really isn't left hand friendly. Galaxy also plays worse on Wii even for us righties. They tweaked the controls just enough on Switch to make it work better.

And. It drives me nuts to be hauled out of a level once I find a Star. The level design (and I know I’m early on yet) hasn’t knocked my socks off either.

Meanwhile Odyssey grabbed me from the beginning just by dropping me in a level and saying: “Go. Hunt. Moons for the Moon Throne.”

Is it the loading between levels that bugs you? Because most of the time, there's nothing else to do in the levels once you get the star.

Level design-wise, Galaxy is way more visually interesting to me than Odyssey. It has more consistent art direction, and a lot of Odyssey's levels are plain to me after the gorgeous spaciness of Galaxy. All subjective of course.

And if I sound down on Odyssey, I'm not! It's fantastic and I'm having a good time.

 

[Gaer]

Yeah I’m not meaning to speak down on Galaxy.

As for what I mean regarding being yanked out of a level, it mucks with the momentum I’m feeling in the world. I just got here and now you’re pulling me out and making me go back to the same level with a minor difference? Fuck’s sake just leave me in there!

Perhaps if 3D Mario games didn’t keep sending you to the same place, if these stars are meant to represent different levels, I wouldn’t get so irritable about it.

But as it is, Odyssey helps scratch that Skitter Skitter Itch. As for level design and art design, Odyssey was all “Fuck it, we do what we want” and that’s ok.

Tiny spheroids in space meanwhile, where I cannot control the camera are definitely not my cup of tea. In comparison of course.

I’m still enjoying Galaxy, and I’m astounded at how well the gyro replaces the pointer and motion controls in general. Does this mean they’ll finally re-release Skyward Sword and I can actually play it? A Gaer can Dream.

 

[Kazin]

As for what I mean regarding being yanked out of a level, it mucks with the momentum I’m feeling in the world. I just got here and now you’re pulling me out and making me go back to the same level with a minor difference? Fuck’s sake just leave me in there!

Yeah, I can see that. They don't seem to want to leave you in there though, because of the comets - they want you to bounce around the levels, going back later to where you just were. That's why the hub kind of annoys me - it takes too long to get around. I wish you could like, look at the board behind Rosalina and just warp to whatever area you want to go to next, rather than having to climb up the whole dumb hub (or get the flying star, which I don't even think unlocks until you beat the final Bowser battle).

Tiny spheroids in space meanwhile, where I cannot control the camera are definitely not my cup of tea. In comparison of course.

It's been weird, going back to a game where I have to wrestle with the camera a bit - they obviously do a better job with it in Odyssey than in Sunshine, but I kind of liked not having to fuss about the camera too much in Galaxy (underwater levels aside - those can be a bit annoying with the camera imo).

I’m still enjoying Galaxy, and I’m astounded at how well the gyro replaces the pointer and motion controls in general. Does this mean they’ll finally re-release Skyward Sword and I can actually play it? A Gaer can Dream.

If they can make Skyward Sword work for both you and me, I will eat every hat in Odyssey (dozens, it appears).