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Low-key Loki spoiler thread
- Thread starter karzac
- Start date
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
So's the weather report
It's crazy what having charismatic actors can do for a show.
That's what you getting casting Soundwave.
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
Hey, nobody calls Soundwave uncrasamatic
Maybe it’s the edibles talking, but I had probably the polar opposite reaction you did. Fuck that was incredible. Can’t wait for moar KANG.
It's the spoiler posting thread.
I'm with BEAT. Ever since Ep 2 or thereabouts, I've always had this nagging itch in the back of my head that Loki has some very high-level concepts and abstract ideas that sound cool on paper but then it expresses them in the most mundane way possible. That works for something like the TVA, because the bureaucracy IS the point. It also works with Doctor Who (as the comparisons were made earlier) but that's mostly because of legacy and because part of the point of DW is to show the banality of villains and conquerors (in fact, when DW tries to flex its budget, it's usually for spectacle rather than creative concepts, so the story often suffers for it). But in Loki, and in fact in many other Marvel productions, it's like they have the budget, but they can't find the creativity to flex into those abstractions. The end of time? Just Ultimecia's Castle. "The One Who Remains"? Just some dude who acts and feels like just some dude, as opposed to a timeless, omniscient, tired overseer. They came just so close to having a Council of Multiversal Kangs, but then pulled back from showing it at the last second and just explained the whole thing with miniatures in a dry, detached exposition dump. I don't buy Loki's "he's terrifying" description because I don't feel anything from The Dude Who Just Sits There, let alone towards his supposedly-worse variants.
I can't help but think of the climax of the more recent Secret Wars comic where Reed and Doom tussled outside of time and space and it was basically the two of them in an endless, shining white void, with the panels breaking into puzzles and mosaics to represent both the physical and philosophical conflict between the characters, and it was still far more effective at conveying an indescribable, metaphysical location to the reader. It could have been easily reproduced simply with editing and camera tricks instead of having a swordfight around a desk and some chairs in a castle (between two spellcasters, at that) while the characters describe to us how they're feeling.
I dunno, maybe I'm just a grump. It's just that I felt similarly with other teases from the show--the "president Loki" bit was very prominent in the trailers, but it's a half-minute sequence that ends in a physical brawl (again, between sorcerers and trickster gods). I know the show has created several brand new segments of shippers, and it did have some fun moments, but in the end I felt very underwhelmed by how it was all exposited instead of presented.
(Also, I don't really care whether this is Kang, some obscure comics character, or even a new one. But it feels like bad form from the narrative that it literally edged into giving us The Dude Who Just Sits There's origin and/or identity but pulled back, as if to withhold that dangling thread specifically for Season 2. Thing is, though... They killed The Dude Who Just Sits There. His identity is completely moot now. And if he IS Kang, (Phase 4 spoiler) who is supposed to show up in Quantumania, then they've taken all the bite out of him because he is just some dude.)
I can't help but think of the climax of the more recent Secret Wars comic where Reed and Doom tussled outside of time and space and it was basically the two of them in an endless, shining white void, with the panels breaking into puzzles and mosaics to represent both the physical and philosophical conflict between the characters, and it was still far more effective at conveying an indescribable, metaphysical location to the reader. It could have been easily reproduced simply with editing and camera tricks instead of having a swordfight around a desk and some chairs in a castle (between two spellcasters, at that) while the characters describe to us how they're feeling.
I dunno, maybe I'm just a grump. It's just that I felt similarly with other teases from the show--the "president Loki" bit was very prominent in the trailers, but it's a half-minute sequence that ends in a physical brawl (again, between sorcerers and trickster gods). I know the show has created several brand new segments of shippers, and it did have some fun moments, but in the end I felt very underwhelmed by how it was all exposited instead of presented.
(Also, I don't really care whether this is Kang, some obscure comics character, or even a new one. But it feels like bad form from the narrative that it literally edged into giving us The Dude Who Just Sits There's origin and/or identity but pulled back, as if to withhold that dangling thread specifically for Season 2. Thing is, though... They killed The Dude Who Just Sits There. His identity is completely moot now. And if he IS Kang, (Phase 4 spoiler) who is supposed to show up in Quantumania, then they've taken all the bite out of him because he is just some dude.)
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I'm not even against cliffhangers or non-endings. I mean hell, the S2 Finale of 12 Oz Mouse is still my favorite ending of all time.
But this didn't feel meaningful or poignant or anything. It was like they were holding out on giving you any sort of catharsis or finality, but not as an artistic statement on, say, terror of a random and arbitrary universe or WTFever, but as a way to get me to come back later, so I'll give them money for their next thing that MIGHT contain what I was looking for here.
I didn't appreciate it.
I know I'm VERY mean when it comes to Disney, but I will give the devil their due, they've actually been pretty good about making MOST Marvel things that I've watched feel COMPLETE. Like yeah they hyped up Thanos for a good 8 years, but you never HAD to give a shit about him. He was just some guy in the background, who would maybe get a line or two after the credits that would KINDA setup his next appearance, but it was just a nice bonus. Modest amounts of worldbuilding that never dragged you out of the thing you were actually watching. A little tiny maybe we'll do this next won't that be fun! to make you go "why yes that does sound fun!"
But I guess 13 years of actively stoking the fires of YOUTUBE THEORISTS for free marketing and getting your own streaming service that's all you all the time is not GREAT for encouraging that kind of restraint.
Frankly, if I were one of the creative minds on this, I'd be pissed. I know the lines between ARTISTIC VISION and MARKETING MACHINE are blurrier than they've ever been, but I genuinely can't imagine being happy with ending something I'd assume you worked really hard for on Hopefully this will get them to google "He who remains" so they can find the screenrant article telling them why they need to watch Ant Man and the Wasp 3.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it DEPRESSING, but its DISHEARTENING to see the marvel thing finally TRULY become exactly what I said it was when posting mean things about their parent company on Twitter.
Does that make any sense? No? Well, regardless. It's just kind of a shame.
But this didn't feel meaningful or poignant or anything. It was like they were holding out on giving you any sort of catharsis or finality, but not as an artistic statement on, say, terror of a random and arbitrary universe or WTFever, but as a way to get me to come back later, so I'll give them money for their next thing that MIGHT contain what I was looking for here.
I didn't appreciate it.
I know I'm VERY mean when it comes to Disney, but I will give the devil their due, they've actually been pretty good about making MOST Marvel things that I've watched feel COMPLETE. Like yeah they hyped up Thanos for a good 8 years, but you never HAD to give a shit about him. He was just some guy in the background, who would maybe get a line or two after the credits that would KINDA setup his next appearance, but it was just a nice bonus. Modest amounts of worldbuilding that never dragged you out of the thing you were actually watching. A little tiny maybe we'll do this next won't that be fun! to make you go "why yes that does sound fun!"
But I guess 13 years of actively stoking the fires of YOUTUBE THEORISTS for free marketing and getting your own streaming service that's all you all the time is not GREAT for encouraging that kind of restraint.
Frankly, if I were one of the creative minds on this, I'd be pissed. I know the lines between ARTISTIC VISION and MARKETING MACHINE are blurrier than they've ever been, but I genuinely can't imagine being happy with ending something I'd assume you worked really hard for on Hopefully this will get them to google "He who remains" so they can find the screenrant article telling them why they need to watch Ant Man and the Wasp 3.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it DEPRESSING, but its DISHEARTENING to see the marvel thing finally TRULY become exactly what I said it was when posting mean things about their parent company on Twitter.
Does that make any sense? No? Well, regardless. It's just kind of a shame.
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I'm also struggling to understand what Sylvie's arc was. From the beginning, she had been working to infiltrate the TVA and kill the TKs. She did that, was then left aimless for half an episode, then gambled everything to go find Loki... and then, teamed up with him again to continue the quest to find The Dude, and kill him. So I can surmise that her story was, "She found companionship, understanding, and love, but none of that was enough to overcome her need for revenge." But if her motivations, goals, and objectives remain unchanged, they are just decorated on the side with some growth, and in the end still acted from selfishness (however justified or righteous or sympathetic that act of selfishness was) is that a complete arc?
By contrast, Loki was afforded the chance to interact with a wide variety of characters, learn from all of them, have a wider and deeper growth, and ultimately change as a person simply by thinking of people other than himself.
Sylvie's only growth came from connecting with Loki. Romantically, even.
I swear if one of the distressingly few female focus characters in the MCU roster grows as a person only because she met a man, I'ma throw this baby out with the bathwater.
Wandavision was pretty good about this. It had references, yes, but they felt like they served the narrative while also being a small wink to the audience. TF&TWS didn't have references per se but actual, full-blown uses of its various sources (even if some of them didn't make sense). In retrospect, and especially because of the LOST-like, incomplete nature of the S1 climax, Loki really does like it threw in references without much narrative substance, but specifically for the Nerdist/Screenrant video crowd.
By contrast, Loki was afforded the chance to interact with a wide variety of characters, learn from all of them, have a wider and deeper growth, and ultimately change as a person simply by thinking of people other than himself.
Sylvie's only growth came from connecting with Loki. Romantically, even.
I swear if one of the distressingly few female focus characters in the MCU roster grows as a person only because she met a man, I'ma throw this baby out with the bathwater.
Wandavision was pretty good about this. It had references, yes, but they felt like they served the narrative while also being a small wink to the audience. TF&TWS didn't have references per se but actual, full-blown uses of its various sources (even if some of them didn't make sense). In retrospect, and especially because of the LOST-like, incomplete nature of the S1 climax, Loki really does like it threw in references without much narrative substance, but specifically for the Nerdist/Screenrant video crowd.
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Man, I do not feel the same way at all. (I'll throw in some spoilers in case someone peeks in here on accident)
I felt like the ending was a cliffhanger for season 2. That seemed like a totally reasonable season finale. Yeah, we know that this show is going to tie in to some movies later on, but that doesn't mean that "Loki" as a series won't be a self contained work. Loki is thrown into a new TVA that is directly run by a new Kang, but now he knows a lot about what's going on. And the timeline is splintering and Sylvie is still out there somewhere. Seems like a great setup for the next season.
I loved Kang. I thought Jonathan Majors did a great job, and more importantly this is only one version of him. Like, his entire thing is that he fought a huge war against all of his variants. His next appearance doesn't have to be the same any more than Loki and Sylvie are the same. This version set up a big marble castle and watched the timeline, but that doesn't limit what we'll see next season. But, I thought this was a great introduction to him. He came across as threatening and powerful, but clearly other variants of him are worse.
President Loki getting his hand bit off and then shuffled off screen was great. Maybe I just like dumb gags like that? I dunno.
I felt like the ending was a cliffhanger for season 2. That seemed like a totally reasonable season finale. Yeah, we know that this show is going to tie in to some movies later on, but that doesn't mean that "Loki" as a series won't be a self contained work. Loki is thrown into a new TVA that is directly run by a new Kang, but now he knows a lot about what's going on. And the timeline is splintering and Sylvie is still out there somewhere. Seems like a great setup for the next season.
I loved Kang. I thought Jonathan Majors did a great job, and more importantly this is only one version of him. Like, his entire thing is that he fought a huge war against all of his variants. His next appearance doesn't have to be the same any more than Loki and Sylvie are the same. This version set up a big marble castle and watched the timeline, but that doesn't limit what we'll see next season. But, I thought this was a great introduction to him. He came across as threatening and powerful, but clearly other variants of him are worse.
President Loki getting his hand bit off and then shuffled off screen was great. Maybe I just like dumb gags like that? I dunno.
Did some wiki reading on Alioth, which invariably connected to the comics version of the Time Keepers and the Time Twisters, and... yeah, He Who Remains really is another obscure comics character, but he's a completely separate entity from both Kang and Immortus (whose own relationship is... complicated, and like hell am I reading their essay-long wiki pages 
.) So I guess the TV show merged Immortus with HWR, while observing that at one point Immortus was in the Council of Kangs? How nerdy is this particular telenovela?
The history of the Time Twisters also ties heavily into Wanda's, specifically the "nexus being" part, so now I'm far more confused about the plan for Marvel TV than I was this morning.
.) So I guess the TV show merged Immortus with HWR, while observing that at one point Immortus was in the Council of Kangs? How nerdy is this particular telenovela?The history of the Time Twisters also ties heavily into Wanda's, specifically the "nexus being" part, so now I'm far more confused about the plan for Marvel TV than I was this morning.
I'm not going to watch this but I'm glad that wider audiences are getting the chance to brush up against the sheer unbridled continuity vortex that Kang and all his derivative selves represent, whatever the specific portrayal here. The presence of the Time Variance Authority is also something that at least on paper I'm into as I'm very much for the perpetuation of any Mark Gruenwald tributes and concepts.
How dare this TV show expect me to watch more of it
This was precisely what I wanted and I loved every minute and man…
Heck yes.
Thank you for reading my post.
Heck yes.
Thank you for reading my post.
My only disappointment is that it disproved my theory that a Variant of that guy has shown up in every single MCU movie at least once already.
That's what makes him great tho? And terrifying? Again, maybe it was the gummies talking, but I totally bought into the dread and fear. He's a guy who is powerful enough to have destroyed countless other multiverses, but he did so out of defensiveness and fear, and means no malice. Loki thought he was a god, but his life was turned upside down like it was nothing and was left at the complete mercy of "just some dude" purely by accident and collateral damage. It's some pretty good cosmic terror imo, and Loki being legit spooked like he just encountered an eldritch horror was fantastic because he basically encountered just that. And now he's terrified because while this version of him was benign and "just some dude", there's going to be versions of him out there that will be just as powerful, and can end all of creation, but who will be actively malicious. Countless, even. And where as, a regular human living out a human lifespan might not be able to fully comprehend such an existence, or figure chances are such things won't happen in their lifetime, Loki is eons old and will live long enough to have to confront Kang again.
The Great TT3 Schism begins. I think I'm on the other side of this, I loved the finale, and... wait, what's this...??
Oh nooooo, was I wrong all along?
He’s wrong because it’s not Rick and Morty
I loved it.
Sprite
(He/Him/His)
Eh, hopefully folks who hate the show will just do a lot of complaining for a bit and then just sit out season two, and folks who like the show can have the thread to themselves. That's my plan. No sense in continuing to watch a show I don't like.
Anyway, I didn't like this! I spent the whole season wondering when they were gonna get to the fireworks factory, and they stopped right outside the door and peaced out. Ending on a cliffhanger is fine, it's definitely teasing season two, not a movie. I just didn't find that cliffhanger exciting and don't want to watch it anymore. I can't get excited about the possibilities of the timeline spiraling out of control because they already teased that with Sylvie a few episodes ago and just snipped it off-screen. The show was mainly just folks sitting in a room talking about the exciting stuff that's going to happen and then when that stuff happened it was just okay.
Ah well. I'm glad other folks liked it. Heaven knows I got more than my fill from WandaVision, it's no big deal if I skip the rest of these shows. Well, except She Hulk. Imma watch that for sure.