Just Keep Telling Yourself It's Only a Thread: Talking Time's Top 50 Horror Movies!

[pudik]

lil late, but i actually rewatched house with my partner... the day it was posted here somehow? funny. anyway it's just so beautiful. As someone said it's one that people mistakenly think is "so bad it's good", because it's playful and outgoing enough to be itself in the entirety of its process. The camera and framing tricks would read as cheap and unnecessary if they didn't inform everything that happens. I really can't understate how much i love that film

and also because we're getting that slander again, Hellraiser does have more than one good sequel. I will maintain that hellraiser: bloodline (4) is hellraiser to the bone, and also just an extremely good watch on its own. The space and bloodline concepts reflect bad when pressed against the series opening, but it's a delight watching it unravel, and the film is so throughly enveloped with the lore and the puzzle box. I honestly can't even see what's wrong with the film. So many people just seem to be against the space bookend by concept alone, and admittedly pinhead is a little flat for half of it. idk, I need a lot of convincing.

and inferno (5) is actually kind of stunning. It's neo-noir, jacob's ladder by way of lost highway, grit realness. I think it gets flak because it really truly is not a hellraiser film, but in the end i think it's incorporation of the puzzle box and pinhead make it one of the strongest in terms of the metaphorical strength of hell. As a sequel or not it's a success

 

[ShakeWell]

and also because we're getting that slander again, Hellraiser does have more than one good sequel. I will maintain that hellraiser: bloodline (4) is hellraiser to the bone, and also just an extremely good watch on its own. The space and bloodline concepts reflect bad when pressed against the series opening, but it's a delight watching it unravel, and the film is so throughly enveloped with the lore and the puzzle box. I honestly can't even see what's wrong with the film. So many people just seem to be against the space bookend by concept alone, and admittedly pinhead is a little flat for half of it. idk, I need a lot of convincing.

The lore is exactly why I don't like Hellraiser 4 (or Halloween 6 or Alien: Covenant or or or). I do not want to know where the box came from or where the Cenobites came from or about Le'Marchant or any of that. Because when you explain a thing, it has structure and reason and it's no longer scary. There is a puzzle box. If you solve the puzzle box, S&M demons show up and do bad stuff (or maybe good stuff, depending on your perspective).

 

[Johnny Unusual]

As someone said it's one that people mistakenly think is "so bad it's good", because it's playful and outgoing enough to be itself in the entirety of its process.

Yeah, that's a goo d way of putting it, particularly the last part. See, this has a quality that does keep it similar to the best "so bad its good" movies; sincerity. Its weirdness comes from a sincere place. But unlike Plan 9 or The Room, it isn't hampered by well-meaning and endearing incompetence. The other aspect is sometimes the "so bad their good" movies come from an almost alien understanding of how people act and that could definitely apply to House (and the films of David Lynch) but in this case it feels more like someone followed his muse (and if you read the backstory, his daughter's muse) to just make a weird world and live there for two hours.

I've never seen any of the movies but I love that Hellraiser was the direct inspiration for Yu-Gi-Oh.

Whenever it comes up, I always have to say it: the original cast of Yu-Gi-Oh is just a repurposed cast of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Diamond is Unbreakable. Yugi is Koichi (only with a literal other personality instead of flipping some mental switch when the pressure's on) and Joey and Tristan (if you want to get localized about it) is just Josuke and far-less dumb Okuyasu. I don't think its an accident: there's a Jojo story were Rohan talks about his lead character potential.

 

[Octopus Prime]

I've never seen any of the movies but I love that Hellraiser was the direct inspiration for Yu-Gi-Oh.

!?!

 

[Johnny Unusual]

Mokuba: "Jesus wept!"

 

[pudik]

The lore is exactly why I don't like Hellraiser 4 (or Halloween 6 or Alien: Covenant or or or). I do not want to know where the box came from or where the Cenobites came from or about Le'Marchant or any of that. Because when you explain a thing, it has structure and reason and it's no longer scary. There is a puzzle box. If you solve the puzzle box, S&M demons show up and do bad stuff (or maybe good stuff, depending on your perspective).

I think that's fair, but I'm not sure if it still really takes the mystery out of it for me. The cenobites and pinhead don't have any more structure than was given to them in 2 I think, and the origin (and direction) of the puzzle box still doesn't really fit like, any specific scientific method. It being some architect's masterpiece that fake marquis de sade uses to open a portal to hell doesn't really feel like a structure to me because it still is resting in the absurd. Maybe my problem is that I don't really need it to be a horror film. It definitely does not have the same dreadful atmosphere as the first two (and it's admittedly just not as well directed and edited), but it's still something of a journey of lament and omnipresent danger. It's rarely scary, but I still feel like it's haunted.

also maybe it's just because the third hellraiser is so bad I don't care that bloodline isn't a comparable horror as the first two

 

[ShakeWell]

also maybe it's just because the third hellraiser is so bad I don't care that bloodline isn't a comparable horror as the first two

Definitely true. Though the third Hellraiser does have some so bad, it's good stuff like... all of the new Cenobites. Especially the DJ one.

 

[Dracula]

The Stuff (1985)
Points: 30 | Lists 1 (Dracula, #7)
"Enough is never enough!"

Drac's Notes: Here's where I try to persuade you to watch one of my favorite movies. The Stuff is a 1985 horror film directed by Larry Cohen. It's about a mysterious white, creamy substance discovered seeping out of a hole in the ground. Strangely, the substance turns out to be delicious, which leads to an unscrupulous food company to package it and market it -- perhaps unaware that the stuff melts your innards and turns you into a stuff-controlled parasitic zombie with a mission to force others to consume more stuff. The film follows a corporate espionage agent played by Michael Moriarty who slowly unravels the substance's dubious origins and effects on people.

Moriarty is a magnetic character actor. I came for weird goopy SFX, but I stayed for dopey Mo Rutherford, a guy who puts on country bumpkin airs but who you can always tell is three steps ahead of his rivals. "Perhaps you're not as dumb as you appear to be," someone tells him. Mo says, "Friend, no one is as dumb as I appear to be."

The movie is an unsubtle swing at capitalism which feels refreshing in our debauched late-stage era. It's unbelievably satisfying to watch Mo cut through layers of corporate marketing, doublespeak, and overpaid execs to get a handle on the lie at the heart of it.

 

[ShakeWell]

The Stuff rules.

The movie is an unsubtle swing at capitalism which feels refreshing in our debauched late-stage era. It's unbelievably satisfying to watch Mo cut through layers of corporate marketing, doublespeak, and overpaid execs to get a handle on the lie at the heart of it.​

It's also a movie where a far-right militia saves the day at one point.

 

[YangusKhan]

and also because we're getting that slander again, Hellraiser does have more than one good sequel. I will maintain that hellraiser: bloodline (4) is hellraiser to the bone, and also just an extremely good watch on its own. The space and bloodline concepts reflect bad when pressed against the series opening, but it's a delight watching it unravel, and the film is so throughly enveloped with the lore and the puzzle box. I honestly can't even see what's wrong with the film. So many people just seem to be against the space bookend by concept alone, and admittedly pinhead is a little flat for half of it. idk, I need a lot of convincing

I agree with all of this. Bloodlines is Fine! Good, even!

 

[Neo Skimbleshanks]

I’ve never seen The Stuff but its VHS cover will stick with me. Now getting sad thinking about my childhood video store. (I think it died before even Netflix’s disc service)

 

[Dracula]

It's also a movie where a far-right militia saves the day at one point.

Yeah, that part hasn't aged as well as the rest of it. They're treated like a (heavily armed) joke, but it's hard to laugh after everything that's gone on in recent years.

I’ve never seen The Stuff but its VHS cover will stick with me. Now getting sad thinking about my childhood video store. (I think it died before even Netflix’s disc service)

My earliest horror memories were of daring myself to peek into the rental store's horror section. I'd walk down the aisle and look at a tape's cover art, then see if I had the guts to pick it up and look at the screencaps on the back. This tradition ended (for a while) when I spied this cover:

Evil Spirits is a movie nobody has seen or remembers, but it's stuck with me for nearly 30 years because Michael Berryman's weird screaming face disturbed me down to my very bones. In college I rented this movie from Netflix's DVD service and watched it. I don't remember a single thing about it. The strange power the VHS cover art had over me is, I think, a good capsule of why people still like to collect VHS to this day.

 

[Dracula]

House II: The Second Story (1987)
Points: 0 | Lists: None
“Looks like you've got some kind of alternate universe in there or something.”

Drac’s Notes: I could have sworn someone cast a single vote for this movie, but I guess I was wrong. House II came out in 1987 and has nothing to do with House (1977), which we already discussed, and oddly enough, it really has nothing to do with House (1985) which it’s apparently a sequel to. The only thing any of these three movies have to do with each other is they feature a scary house.

But House II isn’t scary. Instead, it’s completely ridiculous. Not in the whimsical or nightmarish way that we’ve seen in films like Phantasm or House (1977), but in a way that feels almost like you’re watching two players in a horror-themed D&D game governed by a DM who forgot his notes. Things just keep on happening, and there’s no way to predict what thing will happen next. The first time I saw this film, I knew nothing about it, and we had to keep pausing it to recap exactly what we’d just seen. If you don’t know anything more than that, and you want a fun ride, check this one out without reading more.

 

[Octopus Prime]

Both Houses also feature cameos from the cast of Cheers.

Not... as their Cheers characters, mind, but Norm and Cliff are in the mix!

 

[Torzelbaum]

I love that Hellraiser was the direct inspiration for Yu-Gi-Oh.

What? I feel like I need some proof for this statement.

 

[Johnny Unusual]

John Ratzenberger's character is easily the best part of the movie and should have had his own movie.

 

[ShakeWell]

John Ratzenberger's character is easily the best part of the movie and should have had his own movie.

This.

 

[Purple]

House II: The Second Story (1987)

​

Drac’s Notes: I could have sworn someone cast a single vote for this movie,

And this right here is how you know I missed the vote. I'd have had it at #1. Love this thing to death.

John Ratzenberger's character is easily the best part of ANY movie and should have had his own movie.

So according to the commentary track on the double-sided DVD of this and the first movie (which also better show up here somewhere), what happened with House 2 is at some point the writer/director realized that when he sent dailies and notes and such to the studio, not one single person was actually looking at any of them, and realizing that this left him in the exceptionally rare position of being able to make a decently budgeted movie with absolutely no oversight and put whatever crazy things he otherwise would never be able to get away with in there. And so, realizing both that he would never get such a chance again, and that actually doing so would immediately bring his career to an end, just self-indulgently crammed all of the things into this gem of a movie.

This is, of course, why we never got a proper House 3, and are left only to dream of which Cheers cast member might have had a really memorable cameo in it.

 

[Dracula]

So according to the commentary track on the double-sided DVD of this and the first movie (which also better show up here somewhere), what happened with House 2 is at some point the writer/director realized that when he sent dailies and notes and such to the studio, not one single person was actually looking at any of them, and realizing that this left him in the exceptionally rare position of being able to make a decently budgeted movie with absolutely no oversight and put whatever crazy things he otherwise would never be able to get away with in there. And so, realizing both that he would never get such a chance again, and that actually doing so would immediately bring his career to an end, just self-indulgently crammed all of the things into this gem of a movie.

This explains so much.

ETA: I have that same double DVD, so I guess I need to watch 'em with commentary!

And side note: We won't be revisiting any films in the House series, so feel free to add your thoughts about the other(s), too.

 

[Octopus Prime]

Oh man, now I love House 2 even more

 

[Dracula]

No. 31 TIE

Aliens (1986)
Points: 90 | Lists: Issun (#10); Beta Metroid (#8); WildcatJF (#3)
“Hang on, we're in for some chop!”

Aliens is a 1986 American science fiction action film written and directed by James Cameron. It is the sequel to the 1979 science fiction horror film Alien and the second film in the Alien franchise. Set in the far future, the film stars Sigourney Weaver as Lieutenant Ellen Ripley, the sole survivor of an alien attack on her ship. When communications are lost with a human colony on the same moon her crew first encountered the alien creatures, Ripley agrees to return to the site alongside a troop of colonial marines to investigate.

Drac’s Notes: In my humble IMHO, Aliens isn’t a horror movie. But it is horrifying, and 90 points was enough for me to consider its placement on this list. It’s also a big favorite of mine. Between this film and its predecessor (which you may want to save to discuss for later), the Alien franchise is responsible for a massive chunk of trope codifiers in the sci-fi (and sometimes horror) genre. I absolutely adore Sigourney Weaver’s longsuffering Ellen Ripley in this film as she’s consistently shown to have the best angle on things, fighting through toxic masculinity, corporate bullshit, and insurmountable menace to become one of the most memorable action heroes in all of Hollywood history. The film is crafted perfectly and I’ll watch this one over and over again.

Oh, and I still find it hilarious that Kenner made an action figure line based on this strongly R-rated film in the 1990s. Those are some of the best toys ever, by the way.

The VVitch (2015)
Points: 90 | Lists: Falselogic (#25); Vaeran (#24); Bulgakov (#2); Adrenaline (#7)
“Wouldst thou like to live deliciously?”

The Witch: A New England Folktale, or simply The Witch (stylized as The VVitch) is a 2015 American period supernatural horror film written and directed by Robert Eggers in his feature directorial debut. The film stars Anya Taylor-Joy, Ralph Ineson, Kate Dickie, Harvey Scrimshaw, Ellie Grainger and Lucas Dawson. The Witch follows a Puritan family who encounter forces of evil in the woods beyond their New England farm.

Drac’s Notes: The witch is one of the most frequently reoccurring horror icons, a Halloween staple that reappears as antagonist (usually) in spooky tales dating back to antiquity. The VVitch is a strikingly terrifying and intelligent film that examines what it means to be a witch, especially in the context of a Puritan society, and does it in a way that will surely haunt your nightmares. I never thought a goat could be so fucking scary. This is easily one of the best horror films of the 2010s (and we still have quite a few more to speak of from this very strong decade) and a memorably terrifying experience with a lot going on under the hood.

If I were a space marine I would simply make friends with the aliens.

I don't think the aliens were interested in being friends.

Yeah, but did they even try asking!? Thomasin made friends with that goat, it's basically the same thing.

 

[Johnny Unusual]

The VVitch didn't make my list but its a fantastic piece of unnerving art horror. Its very much a slow burn movie so I'm sure it disappointed a lot of a certain kind of horror fan who heard about the "best horror movie of the year". But frankly, watching your entire family turn on you is truly unsettling stuff. BTW, one theory that's going on that has been partially confirmed by the director is that the corn they are growing has developed a certain fungus... that's also a powerful hallucinogenic. Though the director never said "they are all fucked up from the corn", he did confirm that was what was growing on the corn.

I doubt its an unpopular opinion but Aliens is James Cameron's best film. Also, I feel in the last decade, people are starting to remember Paul Reiser's pretty great, actually.

 

[Adrenaline]

Aliens is great but I don't consider it a horror movie. The Witch is instrumental in getting me really into arty horror movies over the last few years.

 

[Johnny Unusual]

It was just a little outside the genre for me but while I think it skews MORE action (more than enough to make it onto my list) it certainly does have genuine scares. The reveal of the Alien Queen is amazing and the tense silent escape from the facehugger in the lab is pretty thrilling.

Also, this is one of those movies that inspired a not age appropriate at all toy line.

An ad that more or less COMPLETELY forgot that this was a Vietnam story, essentially, and the stupid arrogant soldiers get fucked up. And not in noble "classic war movie" ways, either. It bad.

 

[Zef]

I'm so disappointed in myself for not adding The VVVVVitch to my list, as I loved it when it came out and it's one of the better "is it real, or is it in their heads" horror movies I've ever seen. It's simultaneously bleak and oppressive, and even though the subject matter of "an innocent girl caught in the circumstances of religious fanaticism" is as old as, well, religion, the film is much smarter than to cast said subject in black-and-white judgements.

It'd be a perfect psychological horror film if I didn't need subtitles to understand 80% of the father's dialogue

 

[Johnny Unusual]

I'm so disappointed in myself for not adding The VVVVVitch to my list, as I loved it when it came out and it's one of the better "is it real, or is it in their heads" horror movies I've ever seen.

Another good one I'll recommend in that genre, if you haven't seen it yet, is The Innkeepers, a great slow burn horror flick about two people working in a supposedly haunted inn on the last weekend before it closes.

 

[Octopus Prime]

The VVitch was a late cut from my list, but it’s a very good spookems. My only complaint being that it kind of implies that the Salem Witch Trials were justified since Witches are real and also jerks.

Spoiler

Not counting when the witchcraft brought on by paranoia fuelled by a combination of a puritanical upbringing and food poisoning.[/spoiler{

Also, I’m assuming that a good 300 years worth of social changes play a part in this, but surely the devil can find better ways to tempt people than butter. Offer a Gameboy or something!

 

[Johnny Unusual]

Also, I’m assuming that a good 300 years worth of social changes play a part in this, but surely the devil can find better ways to tempt people than butter. Offer a Gameboy or something!

Butter was the game boy of its day. And Marmite was a Virtual Boy, an acquired taste but those who like it...

EDIT: You try telling me this isn't every bit as fun as Qix

 

[Dracula]

The VVitch was a late cut from my list, but it’s a very good spookems. My only complaint being that it kind of implies that the Salem Witch Trials were justified since Witches are real and also jerks.

I can see where this reading comes from, but I prefer a reading more along the lines of, Thomasin's only escape from the strangulation of a puritan society was to embrace Satan. Becoming a witch represents freedom for her, even if it seems bad and scary. That her culture only gives her this route as an escape says more about a rotten society than about witches being bad, in my opinion.

 

[Vaeran]

The thing I want to do most after I finish watching Aliens is watch Aliens again. It's that fucking good. But I also don't consider it a horror movie (unlike its predecessor) so it didn't make my list. Always glad to see it getting props though.