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"It feels different this time..." - The new Doctor Who Thread
- Thread starter Kazin
- Start date
Purple
(She/Her)
Did something blasphemously horrible go down with Ace when I wasn't looking?
This is the trailer I'm referring to:
I don't know what kind of charity someone could run to get a view like that, but it ain't one that seems unprofitable lol. Yes, I'm reading a lot into that one shot, I know, but it's the frickin Kerblam guy who writes all these. I feel like if RTD hadn't said Ace ran a charity in the Sarah Jane Adventures, she'd be a stock trader or something.
Purple
(She/Her)
Oh wow. Setting aside the fact that the only things I could conceivably see Ace running are some sort of ultra-punk anarchist gang, a mercenary company, or like, something vital to the functioning of the universe, what kind of fake geek boy doesn't know she always just called him Professor?
The reactionary writer of Kerblam, who probably finds the entire lefty McCoy era distasteful at best, if I had to guess
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
Ace is a bit of a weird character. She's from Perivale which I believe is actually a pretty nice area. Her vaguely terrorist thing doesn't match up to where she's from (in the context of the late eighties, at least). I could see her play the system while still remaining fundamentally Ace, although I object to the implication that the way to make a difference is to have a ton of money, which goes as hard against Doctor Who as it's possible to go.
The advert reminded me that I adore both Seven and Ace, so it did something right, I guess
The advert reminded me that I adore both Seven and Ace, so it did something right, I guess
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
I see you are a woman of culture.jpg
Also the first companion to have an actual story arc
I've been watching this on HBOMax, starting at the beginning for a rewatch. I've just finished the first Matt Smith series, which is about where I dropped off decade ago (that can't be right *checks calendar* well shit). The Tenth Doctor is my Doctor. I started watching the show right at the end of his run, burned through all of the stuff I could find through the first series or so of the Eleventh, then I dropped off mostly because I did not have ready access to the show. The rewatch has now really changed my mind on things.
I like Eccleston a lot, but he really didn't get enough time. The show is busy doing heavy lifting introducing/re-establishing itself and Eccleston does that and conveys an interesting character arc of overcoming his guilt at surviving the time war. Plus, no is better at him from switching to menacing to smiling in an instant, and it really works. Both the anger and the smile feel a bit forced, as though he knows what emotions he should be feeling and he is exaggerating them a little. I really wish we could have gotten more of him in the role.
As I said above, Tennant is my Doctor, and I think the new show really comes into its own during his run. I like the first series, but the show is still feeling itself out; over the next few series it gets bigger and wilder. Maybe not always for the best, but I like it. The Tenth Doctor is the most human one; he is mostly just a friendly, charming adventurer, but he also nails his moments when he gets furious. The show tries to sell his time with Rose as super romantic, but I never really thought Tennant has as much chemistry with her as Eccleston did. Still, she's good. I also liked Martha and her arc; her just being generally competent and into the adventures until she realizes that she is not going to have the relationship she wants with the Doctor and moves on. It works. Donna is great, and that whole series is a hoot. The show does her dirty at the end, though. Its just . . . cruel..
I also don't think the post-Series 4 specials were on Netflix when I watched the show. I only remembered seeing The Waters of Mars and parts of Planet of the Dead. I am not crazy about The End of Time, except for how much fun John Simm has in it. The Next Doctor, though, was great.
Matt Smith's first go around was interesting. Outwardly, he is a lot like Tennant, but I think he plays it a lot more alien, and the show tries to re-orient itself a little more from the perspective of the companions. He is silly, but he is silly is a kind of dangerous, unknowable way. Like it feels like an act, but maybe it is just that he is not human. That said, the series is very locked in to one story and feels a little limited. Maybe it is true of previous ones as well, but I felt like series 5 was lacking in just regular adventures with the Doctor. The connectedness of everything makes it feel a bit small. That said, it was delightful.
Now I'm moving into unseen territory. I know I saw the first two episodes of Series 6, but I think that might be the last of the show I really watched.
I like Eccleston a lot, but he really didn't get enough time. The show is busy doing heavy lifting introducing/re-establishing itself and Eccleston does that and conveys an interesting character arc of overcoming his guilt at surviving the time war. Plus, no is better at him from switching to menacing to smiling in an instant, and it really works. Both the anger and the smile feel a bit forced, as though he knows what emotions he should be feeling and he is exaggerating them a little. I really wish we could have gotten more of him in the role.
As I said above, Tennant is my Doctor, and I think the new show really comes into its own during his run. I like the first series, but the show is still feeling itself out; over the next few series it gets bigger and wilder. Maybe not always for the best, but I like it. The Tenth Doctor is the most human one; he is mostly just a friendly, charming adventurer, but he also nails his moments when he gets furious. The show tries to sell his time with Rose as super romantic, but I never really thought Tennant has as much chemistry with her as Eccleston did. Still, she's good. I also liked Martha and her arc; her just being generally competent and into the adventures until she realizes that she is not going to have the relationship she wants with the Doctor and moves on. It works. Donna is great, and that whole series is a hoot. The show does her dirty at the end, though. Its just . . . cruel..
I also don't think the post-Series 4 specials were on Netflix when I watched the show. I only remembered seeing The Waters of Mars and parts of Planet of the Dead. I am not crazy about The End of Time, except for how much fun John Simm has in it. The Next Doctor, though, was great.
Matt Smith's first go around was interesting. Outwardly, he is a lot like Tennant, but I think he plays it a lot more alien, and the show tries to re-orient itself a little more from the perspective of the companions. He is silly, but he is silly is a kind of dangerous, unknowable way. Like it feels like an act, but maybe it is just that he is not human. That said, the series is very locked in to one story and feels a little limited. Maybe it is true of previous ones as well, but I felt like series 5 was lacking in just regular adventures with the Doctor. The connectedness of everything makes it feel a bit small. That said, it was delightful.
Now I'm moving into unseen territory. I know I saw the first two episodes of Series 6, but I think that might be the last of the show I really watched.
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
As a fan of the Seventh Doctor the uneasy feel about how much of the Doctor's personality is an act and the feeling that he will always be slightly unknowable being both ancient and alien is exactly what I'm here for. The concept that the Doctor is really, really dangerous and that the monsters are scared of him (if they're sensible) is my jam. As a result, both Eleven and Twelve are great for me.
Don't be too fooled with the interconnectedness of Season Five, the episodes are mostly standalone (with small clever flourishes to link them). Season Six has the most interconnected set of stories, and it's not always a positive. The problem with Doctor Who is nowadays people expect series long arcs in their TV and it's not a fundamental strength of the show. It pulls it off best in Series Five, Eight and Ten in my opinion. The story doesn't take over the arc but it's definitely there, and for the latter two examples it's actually quite an affecting story it tells.
Don't be too fooled with the interconnectedness of Season Five, the episodes are mostly standalone (with small clever flourishes to link them). Season Six has the most interconnected set of stories, and it's not always a positive. The problem with Doctor Who is nowadays people expect series long arcs in their TV and it's not a fundamental strength of the show. It pulls it off best in Series Five, Eight and Ten in my opinion. The story doesn't take over the arc but it's definitely there, and for the latter two examples it's actually quite an affecting story it tells.
I just watched "The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon." I don't like those episodes; they lose me pretty early on and I never buy in. I can't really explain why; I guess it just all feels manic in a way that I really don't connect with. Honestly, it reminds me of the episodes of Sherlock I don't like, (I like Sherlock overall, but when it misses it really misses) like it is more concerned with seeming clever or complex than telling a story.
I felt this way towards S6 and basically the entire arc of "Doctor who??" that Moffat came up with from 6 through 7. In a show like nu Who, t's a nice bonus when a series finale organically brings together elements of previous episodes, or even previous series, but the whole "huge overarching plot" that he concocted for those two series gets too overwrought, and too clever by half, to the detriment of individual episodes (and, ironically, to the detriment of the greater plot, too.)
Yeah, Series 6 overall did not work for me. Even on just an episode to episode basis. As cheesy as the Davies stuff could be (and it was some high cheese), at least when all of the Doctor's allies showed up to help him in a crisis they were characters that the audience knew and had some relationship with, not a half dozen characters making their first appearance. Having everyone show up to stop the Daleks worked because you got to see all the characters you like teaming up to stop villains you hate. In Series 6 you see a bunch of characters you don't know team up to stop villains you don't know or understand.
Also, it turns out I had seen all or most of these episodes, I just didn't remember most them. I did remember watching both "Let's Kill Hitler" and "The Wedding of River Song" and had the same thought about both of them: that was an interesting second part of a two part episode, I wish I had seen the first. I would rate the whole River Song storyline as something of a fiasco. It has such a strong start and was such a good idea, but it all got compressed into this mess. Honestly, the non-Moffat written episodes were mostly pretty enjoyable. Its that this Series whiffed on all of its big swings. I still like Smith as the Doctor, he is a man of contrasts, young but old, energetic but tires, honorable but untrustworthy. Rory and Amy are good companions. Let's hope the final series for Eleven turns things around.
Also, it turns out I had seen all or most of these episodes, I just didn't remember most them. I did remember watching both "Let's Kill Hitler" and "The Wedding of River Song" and had the same thought about both of them: that was an interesting second part of a two part episode, I wish I had seen the first. I would rate the whole River Song storyline as something of a fiasco. It has such a strong start and was such a good idea, but it all got compressed into this mess. Honestly, the non-Moffat written episodes were mostly pretty enjoyable. Its that this Series whiffed on all of its big swings. I still like Smith as the Doctor, he is a man of contrasts, young but old, energetic but tires, honorable but untrustworthy. Rory and Amy are good companions. Let's hope the final series for Eleven turns things around.
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
I'll never quite understand the need to see everything's origin, that sort of thing gives us Solo. I don't think it's spoiling anything to say it isn't the last time you'll see these characters and then you'll get to have the "yay, they're back again". I like when a series implies things happen off screen, like the "bounty hunter on Ord Mantell". If you're interested, you know somebody will write that story. It's of absolutely no importance to the story being told, however.
The real reason you haven't heard of any of these characters before is one of them was supposed to be Captain Jack, but he couldn't do it as was shooting Miracle Day.
The real reason you haven't heard of any of these characters before is one of them was supposed to be Captain Jack, but he couldn't do it as was shooting Miracle Day.
As much as a lot of series six works for me, it's the big divisive season of Moffat's tenure. He couldn't give it the attention he needed to because he was going through some family losses at the time as well as having to showrun Sherlock.
Fun story, while on our honeymoon at the Grand Canyon, my wife and I went to the filming location in Utah for the beach scenes in the series 6 opener and finale. It was over 100 degrees Fahrenheit that day and my wife almost passed out from heat exhaustion (so by "fun story," I mean "potentially marriage ending." She ended up being fine, as did our marriage lol). It's an enormous state campsite, so there were tons of people there drinking beer and listening to music. It was hardly the lonely, somewhat melancholy beach I expected it to be haha. It remains the only Doctor Who filming location I've ever been to (well, apart from Central Park in New York, though I was nowhere near where they filmed, so I don't really count it).
Fun story, while on our honeymoon at the Grand Canyon, my wife and I went to the filming location in Utah for the beach scenes in the series 6 opener and finale. It was over 100 degrees Fahrenheit that day and my wife almost passed out from heat exhaustion (so by "fun story," I mean "potentially marriage ending." She ended up being fine, as did our marriage lol). It's an enormous state campsite, so there were tons of people there drinking beer and listening to music. It was hardly the lonely, somewhat melancholy beach I expected it to be haha. It remains the only Doctor Who filming location I've ever been to (well, apart from Central Park in New York, though I was nowhere near where they filmed, so I don't really count it).
I don't so much mind that we didn't see the origins of those character; it makes sense that the Doctor has had adventures we haven't seen and has favors to call in, but in the context of the episode the fact that the viewer does not know any of those characters really hampers in the impact of the Doctor calling in some friends. Having at least one or two that viewer knows would have really helped it feel as big as it wants to feel. Getting Captain Jack back would have been perfect.
I probably mentioned this on the old forums, but I loved River Song in the Library two-parter in which she debuts, and then progressively liked her less and less with each subsequent appearance until I was completely sick of her by the end. Her character as established in the Library represents a narrative promise that's basically impossible to fulfill: here is someone so much closer and important to the Doctor than any other companion before or since that she knows his name, has his screwdriver, and has filled a TARDIS-themed diary with the adventures they've had together. In many ways she appears to be an equal to him with a mystique that no actual character could ever live up to. I like Alex Kingston and I think she does great work with the material she's given, but I also think the River story would have been better left as a tantalizing glimpse of the Doctor's far-off future that we never actually revisit after the Library.
This is emblematic of my view of Moffat's writing in general: his stories during the RTD era are all absolute bangers because he works best within tight constraints. When he only has one or two episodes in which to tell a complete story, he crafts wonders of wit and sleight of hand that tease your imagination and leave you wanting more. But when he has free reign to go on at length and no one to edit him, it all turns into so much spaghetti. I feel like I know and understand less about River Song by the end of her saga than I did at the beginning.
Yuck.
This is emblematic of my view of Moffat's writing in general: his stories during the RTD era are all absolute bangers because he works best within tight constraints. When he only has one or two episodes in which to tell a complete story, he crafts wonders of wit and sleight of hand that tease your imagination and leave you wanting more. But when he has free reign to go on at length and no one to edit him, it all turns into so much spaghetti. I feel like I know and understand less about River Song by the end of her saga than I did at the beginning.
Yuck.
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
I don't think that, personally. She's got a full arc, which is generally in a backward direction. I never struggled to work out where in her time line she was. Also the concept that each time you meet the person you love they remember less and less about you is pretty upsetting, it's like timey-wimey dementia.
Sure, but that concept was already pretty well explored within the Library episodes. To me it just feels like Moffat told one really great joke over the course of those two episodes, and then spent years afterwards explaining the joke.
Unproduced Russell T Davies script from 1986 will be made by Big Finish starring Colin Baker. I will probably end up getting it, as Davies is an excellent writer (I've heard very good things about both It's A Sin and Years and Years, neither of which I've watched yet).