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"It feels different this time..." - The new Doctor Who Thread
- Thread starter Kazin
- Start date
I recently picked up a sealed copy of DWM 544 (their 40th anniversary issue from 2019), which comes with a grab-bag DVD of various interviews, trailers and other bits. I hadn't yet seen most of the trailers for the classic series boxsets, and found myself greatly enjoying them, in particular this extremely cute one for season 18, delivered with a delirious relish by Tom Baker:
I laff'd
I laff'd
According to the back of the DVD sleeve, everything that's on here is pulled from the various season boxset special features, aside from a somewhat dry 20-minute trip to Jodrell Bank Observatory with Janet Fielding and Sarah Sutton. Janet practically talks over the researcher they're interviewing and tries to trip him up, while Sarah quietly looks like she'd rather be somewhere else. (Too busy learning about pulsars and quasars, nobody bothers to ask at what height a fall from the radio telescope would kill your average Time Lord.) So don't worry, you're not missing much.
Here's the article for those who haven't seen yet: Doctor Who reveals first look at Ncuti Gatwa's Fifteenth Doctor in costume
I'm not sure that I love it yet! Don't hate it though; my first reaction was "Hmmm." I think it's the orange sweater; had it been a button-down or a vest I'd probably be feeling it more. Checkered coat AND pants is also a little much, but then again how many Doctors' outfits have been "a little much"? Well, I'm sure I'll get used to it. Ruby's outfit looks fine.
I'm not sure that I love it yet! Don't hate it though; my first reaction was "Hmmm." I think it's the orange sweater; had it been a button-down or a vest I'd probably be feeling it more. Checkered coat AND pants is also a little much, but then again how many Doctors' outfits have been "a little much"? Well, I'm sure I'll get used to it. Ruby's outfit looks fine.
Just finished The Web of Fear. What a treat that these episodes (well, most of them) were recovered. I've heard that the newly animated version of episode 3 is rubbish so I watched the telesnap reconstruction instead, which was of markedly higher quality than Loose Cannon's stab at Marco Polo, with pans and zooms to emphasize parts of the frame and keep it feeling more dynamic than a slideshow.
- The previous serial concluded with a teaser featuring the Doctor speaking directly to the audience to warn of the new-and-improved, scarier Yeti coming up in the next episode. "So if your mummy and daddy are scared, you just get them to hold your hand!" Very cute.
- The Web of Fear's sets are wonderful and the whole thing drips with claustrophobic atmosphere. I'm not sure how much faith I place in the story that the London transit authority mistakenly believed that the BBC had filmed in the underground without permission (as that seems like precisely the sort of unverifiable tale you'd cook up for publicity), but I suppose it's plausible. I like when the Doctor has a fit about Jamie almost stepping on the third rail in episode 1, while poor Jamie at no point has the faintest clue what the fuck he's talking about. Might as well have been yelling about etheric beam locators.
- I'm struck by how colorful the secondary characters are in this. Besides the extraordinarily twitchy Professor Travers, we've got his clever and fiery daughter Anne, slimy journalist Chorley, and Evans, the cowardly soldier who sings when he's scared. Even some of the incidental dialogue between the various soldiers is amusing. (Contrast with a story like The Moonbase, where practically the entire cast aside from the TARDIS crew are interchangeably bland and unmemorable.) The classic series may have its flaws, but anyone who thinks that DW only achieved good writing and characterization beginning in 2005 is dead wrong.
- And of course there's the debut of Sir Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart, always a welcome sight on my screen. (I've previously said that no Doctor's had a proper run until they've faced the Daleks, the Cybermen and the Master, with bonus points awarded for annoying the Brigadier. The math just barely works for all the classic series Doctors... if you're willing to acknowledge the existence of Dimensions in Time. A big ask.) I'm somewhat disappointed to learn that his initial meeting with the Doctor occurs off-screen between episodes; I have to imagine that would have been handled differently had it been known at the time what a legacy the character would go on to have. But intriguingly the Colonel is presented as quite a suspicious figure at first, with several people remarking on the mysterious manner of his arrival, and no one able to vouch for him. (Strangest of all, he's twice reminded that Evans is the other survivor of his otherwise-slaughtered team, but the Colonel seems not to remember him.) Obviously he quickly proves himself as the trustworthy and capable commander we know him to be, but it's an interesting way to introduce him.
- Jamie gets to go gallivanting around the tunnels with the soldiers in episode 2, while Victoria's left behind at base to make the tea. Typical. I'm realizing now that Jamie just gets handsy with any man he happens to be around when he's scared, not necessarily the Doctor, as he's all over Evans while the two are alone together. That fickle little hussie!
- I noticed in the credits that John Levene plays one of the Yeti! I choose to believe he was the one the Doctor and Anne reprogrammed. Apparently he was also a Cyberman in The Moonbase, according to the TARDIS Wiki. Doing a little undercover work, Sergeant Benton? And Professor Travers is played by Jack Watling, Deborah Watling's father.
- I liked that the climax has the Great Intelligence get away because a well-intentioned Jamie wasn't in on the Doctor's plans and just wanted to save him. Better than the traditional "well, we've definitely defeated this threat forever. [next season] Oh no, it's back!!" Fun stuff.
- The previous serial concluded with a teaser featuring the Doctor speaking directly to the audience to warn of the new-and-improved, scarier Yeti coming up in the next episode. "So if your mummy and daddy are scared, you just get them to hold your hand!" Very cute.
- The Web of Fear's sets are wonderful and the whole thing drips with claustrophobic atmosphere. I'm not sure how much faith I place in the story that the London transit authority mistakenly believed that the BBC had filmed in the underground without permission (as that seems like precisely the sort of unverifiable tale you'd cook up for publicity), but I suppose it's plausible. I like when the Doctor has a fit about Jamie almost stepping on the third rail in episode 1, while poor Jamie at no point has the faintest clue what the fuck he's talking about. Might as well have been yelling about etheric beam locators.
- I'm struck by how colorful the secondary characters are in this. Besides the extraordinarily twitchy Professor Travers, we've got his clever and fiery daughter Anne, slimy journalist Chorley, and Evans, the cowardly soldier who sings when he's scared. Even some of the incidental dialogue between the various soldiers is amusing. (Contrast with a story like The Moonbase, where practically the entire cast aside from the TARDIS crew are interchangeably bland and unmemorable.) The classic series may have its flaws, but anyone who thinks that DW only achieved good writing and characterization beginning in 2005 is dead wrong.
- And of course there's the debut of Sir Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart, always a welcome sight on my screen. (I've previously said that no Doctor's had a proper run until they've faced the Daleks, the Cybermen and the Master, with bonus points awarded for annoying the Brigadier. The math just barely works for all the classic series Doctors... if you're willing to acknowledge the existence of Dimensions in Time. A big ask.) I'm somewhat disappointed to learn that his initial meeting with the Doctor occurs off-screen between episodes; I have to imagine that would have been handled differently had it been known at the time what a legacy the character would go on to have. But intriguingly the Colonel is presented as quite a suspicious figure at first, with several people remarking on the mysterious manner of his arrival, and no one able to vouch for him. (Strangest of all, he's twice reminded that Evans is the other survivor of his otherwise-slaughtered team, but the Colonel seems not to remember him.) Obviously he quickly proves himself as the trustworthy and capable commander we know him to be, but it's an interesting way to introduce him.
- Jamie gets to go gallivanting around the tunnels with the soldiers in episode 2, while Victoria's left behind at base to make the tea. Typical. I'm realizing now that Jamie just gets handsy with any man he happens to be around when he's scared, not necessarily the Doctor, as he's all over Evans while the two are alone together. That fickle little hussie!
- I noticed in the credits that John Levene plays one of the Yeti! I choose to believe he was the one the Doctor and Anne reprogrammed. Apparently he was also a Cyberman in The Moonbase, according to the TARDIS Wiki. Doing a little undercover work, Sergeant Benton? And Professor Travers is played by Jack Watling, Deborah Watling's father.
- I liked that the climax has the Great Intelligence get away because a well-intentioned Jamie wasn't in on the Doctor's plans and just wanted to save him. Better than the traditional "well, we've definitely defeated this threat forever. [next season] Oh no, it's back!!" Fun stuff.
This is an absolute nothing of a post but I'm reading the Wikipedia page for "The Yule Log," the Christmas TV program that is literally just a camera pointed at a fireplace while Christmas music plays in the background, and I am laughing my ass off. I'm sorry, I think I've had too much egg nog. Just... Just let me get this out of my system:
1. Christmas specials
2. Began in the 60s, canceled in 1989 (just when things were getting good again with the Seventh Log)
3. Rebooted with more modern visuals in 1970
4.
Yule Log in distress
Let's all answer its S.O.S.
5. BEB (Yule Log's RTD) revives the program in the 2000s
6. Missing episodes returned to the archives!
7. 50th anniversary special!!
Thank you, and sorry. I'm going to go have some more egg nog now
EDIT: wait I'm not done
8. An Adventure in Fire and Place
okay now I'm done
*sip*
1. Christmas specials
2. Began in the 60s, canceled in 1989 (just when things were getting good again with the Seventh Log)
3. Rebooted with more modern visuals in 1970
4.
Yule Log in distress
Let's all answer its S.O.S.
5. BEB (Yule Log's RTD) revives the program in the 2000s
6. Missing episodes returned to the archives!
7. 50th anniversary special!!
Thank you, and sorry. I'm going to go have some more egg nog now
EDIT: wait I'm not done
8. An Adventure in Fire and Place
okay now I'm done
*sip*
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I spent the weekend at my dads, so was only on mobile then but I wanted to engage with your post about Web of Fear a bit more, Vaeran.
Good. I've seen it, and it's the most distracting way to watch that episode. The reconstructions - BBC or Loose Cannon - are unquestionably better than the animation. It's hard to focus on the story when you keep thinking to yourself "why did they do it this way? This is awful!"
Please tell me you've seen The Enemy of the World. In my opinion, it's Troughton's best extant serial (probably his best overall, too, though I'm very very partial to Power of the Daleks).
Yeah, I've never been to London, so I just take those stories at face value, because I sure don't know how accurate those sets look lol. Though it does strike me as a good lesson for kids - stay the hell away from subway tracks!
Agreed 100%. The cast is much more memorable and interesting, even if you hadn't seen The Abominable Snowmen.
Yeah, they had no idea that Lethbridge-Stewart would go on to become what he did when they made Web of Fear, and they changed it in the book - there is no question that he is not the person the Great Intelligence has possessed in the book because Terrance Dicks knew no one would suspect him for a second by the time he came to write it haha. This being his first episode as that character is also supposedly why we still don't have episode 3 - the theory is it was stolen to be sold to some collector because they wanted to "own" the first episode the Brig was in. No proof of this, of course, but that's what the guy who found the episodes thinks, anyway.
Sadly, the actor doesn't even remember which Yeti he is in which scene, so who knows haha.
It suuuucks we don't have episode 3. Hopefully it gets returned at some point - it's the most likely return we're aware of, too, because we know it existed at least back in 2012. There's just so few fully extant Troughton serials. Having what we have is good - we'd previously only had the first episode of Web of Fear prior to most of the serial getting returned - but it'd be nice to just have one more.
There's a guy in Australia who recorded basically everything on television starting in the early 70s, who hoarded all those old reel to reels and tapes until his recent death, and most of his stuff was donated by his family to be looked at and saved, if there's any missing material there. He was supposedly a Doctor Who fan, but based on the dates he was recording, likely the only possible missing episodes he could potentially have is the late Troughton serial The Space Pirates, which was the only thing that aired in Australia during the time he was recording. It'll probably take a few years to go through all his stuff safely, though, and there's no guarantee he had any missing Who material, though obviously I hope he did...
Good. I've seen it, and it's the most distracting way to watch that episode. The reconstructions - BBC or Loose Cannon - are unquestionably better than the animation. It's hard to focus on the story when you keep thinking to yourself "why did they do it this way? This is awful!"
Please tell me you've seen The Enemy of the World. In my opinion, it's Troughton's best extant serial (probably his best overall, too, though I'm very very partial to Power of the Daleks).
Yeah, I've never been to London, so I just take those stories at face value, because I sure don't know how accurate those sets look lol. Though it does strike me as a good lesson for kids - stay the hell away from subway tracks!
Agreed 100%. The cast is much more memorable and interesting, even if you hadn't seen The Abominable Snowmen.
Yeah, they had no idea that Lethbridge-Stewart would go on to become what he did when they made Web of Fear, and they changed it in the book - there is no question that he is not the person the Great Intelligence has possessed in the book because Terrance Dicks knew no one would suspect him for a second by the time he came to write it haha. This being his first episode as that character is also supposedly why we still don't have episode 3 - the theory is it was stolen to be sold to some collector because they wanted to "own" the first episode the Brig was in. No proof of this, of course, but that's what the guy who found the episodes thinks, anyway.
Sadly, the actor doesn't even remember which Yeti he is in which scene, so who knows haha.
It suuuucks we don't have episode 3. Hopefully it gets returned at some point - it's the most likely return we're aware of, too, because we know it existed at least back in 2012. There's just so few fully extant Troughton serials. Having what we have is good - we'd previously only had the first episode of Web of Fear prior to most of the serial getting returned - but it'd be nice to just have one more.
There's a guy in Australia who recorded basically everything on television starting in the early 70s, who hoarded all those old reel to reels and tapes until his recent death, and most of his stuff was donated by his family to be looked at and saved, if there's any missing material there. He was supposedly a Doctor Who fan, but based on the dates he was recording, likely the only possible missing episodes he could potentially have is the late Troughton serial The Space Pirates, which was the only thing that aired in Australia during the time he was recording. It'll probably take a few years to go through all his stuff safely, though, and there's no guarantee he had any missing Who material, though obviously I hope he did...
I appreciate it! I always enjoy your thoughts on DW.
I have not yet, but it's definitely on the list. (As is The Abominable Snowmen, which I really should have watched first. But I've spent 40 years not making good decisions and I'm not about to start now.) I got a hankering for some 60s Daleks so I'm rewatching The Dalek Invasion of Earth right now.
That's actually super interesting and a very smart change to make. I'm getting increasingly excited to start in on the novelizations and see how they differ from what was aired.
Oh, this is exciting news. I had kind of figured that with no missing episodes found since 2013 (right?) that what we have now was all we were going to get, ever. But where there's life, there's hope.
Same here with your thoughts on DW! That's why I wanted to post with a bit more substance this time around lol
You're hardly missing anything not having seen Abominable Snowmen first. Web does a good job catching you up as to who Travers is, it's more just that continuity between serials at this point in the show's history is a rare curiosity haha
I really need to read them, too. There are still dozens I haven't read, yet. Luckily, the most expensive (besides The Wheel in Space), Power of the Daleks and Evil of the Daleks, are merely okay, and nowhere near books I'd say to run out and buy. Wheel is available in that Terrance Dicks collection I posted last week or whenever that was.
2013 was the last time they found any new ones, yeah. Who knows if they'll ever find any new stuff, I certainly hope they do. Marco Polo has been rumored to exist in full for decades, but not a frame of that has turned up (besides the telesnaps, of course), so who knows what's going on there.
Rather than rely on what the weirdos in the missing episodes thread on GallifreyBase have said about it (pretty much the only thing I ever occasionally go there for), I listened to the episode of 42 to Doomsday where the guy who managed the recovery efforts for the recently deceased Australian hoarder's house. My intent was to fall asleep listening to it, and instead it kept me awake and was incredibly interesting and depressing. It's, uh, kind of bonkers. I feel bad for the guy who passed away, because he was living horribly - sleeping on a blanket in the hall because he could no longer access his bedroom. He was independently wealthy, and kept literally everything - receipts, packaging, even the bags the stuff he bought came in, so people who want to see old shopping bags from the 60s had a field day when this stuff turned up. He was recording audio as far back as the fifties - and had television recording equipment dating back to the 60s. So the podcast hosts point blank asked the guy who was looking over the material whether this guy had recorded all of Doctor Who (at least all of it played in Australia, so no Feast of Steven is possible, for example lol), and he pointed out a few things:
1. This guy was such a fan of Doctor Who that they played the theme song at his funeral per his request
2. He not only had the equipment to record everything, but also the players, still in working order as far as anyone knows
3. Unfortunately, before the recovery expert got there, the family of the deceased threw out 27 tons - twenty seven tons, that is not a typo - of stuff, much of which were things they didn't think anyone could play or would have any interest in due to their age, including U-matic tapes, a technology that debuted in the late 60s. Some were still in the house, but there's a possibility that this guy recorded EVERYTHING and it was all accidentally destroyed in September 2022 because the family had no idea what they had.
4. The stuff that was destroyed was just taken out by rubbish collectors, and the guy kept many of his things in garbage bags, so the recovery expert thinks the rubbish people just went in, saw the garbage bags, and threw them in the truck, which compacted and destroyed everything on site before taking the crushed remains to the dump (meaning there's no chance anything taken by the rubbish people would be recoverable).
5. Some of the U-matic tapes they found dated from 1974, and were Star Trek reruns. This guy taped everything, even if he already had it - all the way through the 2010s on various formats. Some of the U-matic tapes were dated earlier than that, and they speculated that the most likely return, if any are possible, are episodes of The Space Pirates, which reran in Australia somewhere between late 1971 and 1972. The guy had his own cataloguing system that only he understood, so we don't know whether any of this is true yet.
6. The stuff that was saved - still a huge, huge, huge amount of stuff - was taken to a university in Australia with a setup and a class to wade through and catalogue all the stuff, and as far as video and audio material is concerned, if they find any missing material, it will be returned to the respective rights holders.
7. This guy was completely unknown to the fan circles in Australia - he never went to meetups or anything like that, and the recovery expert on the podcast is convinced there might be others out there with similar setups from way back then that we just don't know about. He was contacted by "friends" of the deceased after he started sifting through stuff, and was told that they supposedly had an arrangement with the guy that they'd get all his stuff after he died. When the recovery expert told this person that a university was sifting through it all and would return missing content to the BBC etc., the guy got pissed and refused to communicate any further, despite the recovery expert asking if he had any old material or knew anyone who might.
8. No one knows if this guy backed up older material on newer media - they found thousands of hard drives, USB drives, etc. which they have no idea yet what is on them, but the recovery guy has some hope he may have backed up older stuff so it was either easier to access (especially if he was, indeed, such a Doctor Who fan) or because he just wanted everything preserved. He estimates it will take 10+ years for the university to sort through all this stuff, there is that much of it left even after trashing 27 tons.
So, yeah, needless to say, it was a fascinating listen, here's the link if you want to hear it yourself. Be warned that it's pretty depressing to hear for many reasons as noted above lol. Here's hoping we all get lucky... @Vaeran @Phantoon you two might be interested at least in the above post/podcast.
1. This guy was such a fan of Doctor Who that they played the theme song at his funeral per his request
2. He not only had the equipment to record everything, but also the players, still in working order as far as anyone knows
3. Unfortunately, before the recovery expert got there, the family of the deceased threw out 27 tons - twenty seven tons, that is not a typo - of stuff, much of which were things they didn't think anyone could play or would have any interest in due to their age, including U-matic tapes, a technology that debuted in the late 60s. Some were still in the house, but there's a possibility that this guy recorded EVERYTHING and it was all accidentally destroyed in September 2022 because the family had no idea what they had.
4. The stuff that was destroyed was just taken out by rubbish collectors, and the guy kept many of his things in garbage bags, so the recovery expert thinks the rubbish people just went in, saw the garbage bags, and threw them in the truck, which compacted and destroyed everything on site before taking the crushed remains to the dump (meaning there's no chance anything taken by the rubbish people would be recoverable).
5. Some of the U-matic tapes they found dated from 1974, and were Star Trek reruns. This guy taped everything, even if he already had it - all the way through the 2010s on various formats. Some of the U-matic tapes were dated earlier than that, and they speculated that the most likely return, if any are possible, are episodes of The Space Pirates, which reran in Australia somewhere between late 1971 and 1972. The guy had his own cataloguing system that only he understood, so we don't know whether any of this is true yet.
6. The stuff that was saved - still a huge, huge, huge amount of stuff - was taken to a university in Australia with a setup and a class to wade through and catalogue all the stuff, and as far as video and audio material is concerned, if they find any missing material, it will be returned to the respective rights holders.
7. This guy was completely unknown to the fan circles in Australia - he never went to meetups or anything like that, and the recovery expert on the podcast is convinced there might be others out there with similar setups from way back then that we just don't know about. He was contacted by "friends" of the deceased after he started sifting through stuff, and was told that they supposedly had an arrangement with the guy that they'd get all his stuff after he died. When the recovery expert told this person that a university was sifting through it all and would return missing content to the BBC etc., the guy got pissed and refused to communicate any further, despite the recovery expert asking if he had any old material or knew anyone who might.
8. No one knows if this guy backed up older material on newer media - they found thousands of hard drives, USB drives, etc. which they have no idea yet what is on them, but the recovery guy has some hope he may have backed up older stuff so it was either easier to access (especially if he was, indeed, such a Doctor Who fan) or because he just wanted everything preserved. He estimates it will take 10+ years for the university to sort through all this stuff, there is that much of it left even after trashing 27 tons.
So, yeah, needless to say, it was a fascinating listen, here's the link if you want to hear it yourself. Be warned that it's pretty depressing to hear for many reasons as noted above lol. Here's hoping we all get lucky... @Vaeran @Phantoon you two might be interested at least in the above post/podcast.
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Oh my god, what a tale. How utterly sad that this man's passions turned his life into a nightmare. This feels selfish to say but hopefully some good comes out of this in the form of some recovered episodes, though the fact that 27 TONS of items are already gone forever is very worrying.
I guess my one hope is that if he was such a devoted DW fan as to have the theme music played at his funeral(not Vale Decem, surely?) then maybe the recordings occupied a place of importance in his home, i.e. kept neatly on a shelf somewhere, and not, fucking... The Myth Makers jammed into a random pile of garbage bags on his floor or something. Hopefully that would cause his family to think twice before disposing of something -- after all, something clued them into the thought that they ought to have a recovery expert come out and look at this stuff.
I will never understand the mentality of "collectors" (such as perhaps this guy, and whoever nicked episode 3 of The Web of Fear) who would rather deprive millions of people of a cultural artifact just so they can have it all to themselves. It belongs in a museum! A space museum!!
I guess my one hope is that if he was such a devoted DW fan as to have the theme music played at his funeral
I will never understand the mentality of "collectors" (such as perhaps this guy, and whoever nicked episode 3 of The Web of Fear) who would rather deprive millions of people of a cultural artifact just so they can have it all to themselves. It belongs in a museum! A space museum!!
You will be delighted to know I had to look up what "Vale Decem" was lmao (I actually wondered what version of the theme song was played at his funeral, the podcast doesn't say, but I think it'd be ghoulish to ask even the collector guy lol)
It's tough with the collectors. I've really tried to take what Frank Cifaldi thinks about them to heart - basically that they realized the importance of this stuff before anyone else and thus preserved it - but the instinct or whatever it is to keep it entirely to themselves is, er, frustrating (to put it kindly). I've often wondered what I'd do if someone just randomly said to me "hey check this out" and then played me the first five minutes of, say, Power of the Daleks. Would I steal their tape, rip it, and mail it to the BBC? Would I have to fight them for it? Would I even be willing to (I've never been in a fight even in my own defense lol)? I'm a big soft baby nerd man! Just give the missing episodes back to the BBC! Waaahhh!
It's tough with the collectors. I've really tried to take what Frank Cifaldi thinks about them to heart - basically that they realized the importance of this stuff before anyone else and thus preserved it - but the instinct or whatever it is to keep it entirely to themselves is, er, frustrating (to put it kindly). I've often wondered what I'd do if someone just randomly said to me "hey check this out" and then played me the first five minutes of, say, Power of the Daleks. Would I steal their tape, rip it, and mail it to the BBC? Would I have to fight them for it? Would I even be willing to (I've never been in a fight even in my own defense lol)? I'm a big soft baby nerd man! Just give the missing episodes back to the BBC! Waaahhh!
There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible things. Things which act against everything we believe in. They must be fought.
[cut to Kazin hauling ass out of a collector's mansion with two armfuls of film reels, guards in hot pursuit]
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
Fighting isn't the way Kazin would do it. He'd find a way to turn this around. He'd make the villains fall into their own traps, and trick the monsters, and outwit the men with guns. He'd save the missing episodes and find a way to win.
Finished up The Dalek Invasion of Earth tonight. I've seen it before, but it's been a minute, so I'd forgotten most of the details.
- This serial is unrelentingly bleak from the jump, beginning with the startlingly dark image of a Roboman walking past a sign about dumping bodies and drowning himself in the river. ("A dead human body? In the river? I should say that’s near murder, isn’t it?" You might be onto something there, Doctor.) There's famine, plague, people selling each other out to the Daleks for a scrap of food... The resistance's rescue operations failing spectacularly and their secret weapons proving useless... But it also features some utterly giddy visuals, like the Daleks in Trafalgar Square and on Westminster Bridge. Those scenes must have been mind-blowing in 1964.
- "Wow, that Dalek saucer looks really good!" said my dumb ass the first time it appeared, before realizing it looked too good and that I was watching the version with the enhanced CG effects. Bleh.
- Yes, the Robomen are inescapably goofy, with their giant electric brain helmets that fall apart at the slightest provocation. And no doubt the subsequent introduction of the vastly superior Cybermen put the kibosh on any possibility of their return. And yet... there's something there, isn't there? Maybe it's that opening image of the suicidal Roboman that's sticking with me, or maybe it's that great Terrance Dicks line about them. Or maybe just that I vastly prefer them to the overt Dalek-ization of humans that the modern series sometimes resorts to, with the fucking eyestalk extending from their foreheads. Extermination is one thing, but there's something exceptionally cruel about irrevocably burning out the entirety of a person's identity to make a disposable worker drone. Although, why do the Daleks set the Doctor with an escape room puzzle to judge his suitability to become a mindless zombie? (Headcanon: only the very intelligent make for useful Robomen; the rest either become vegetables or can only follow very simple commands.)
- VETOED
- Susan continues her unbroken streak of being useless at best and a liability at worst; no wonder Carole Ann Ford was eager to move on at the time. That she manages to cook a rabbit stew in episode 5 without breaking her ankle or falling into a ditch or exploding is remarkable. (My mind wandered a bit as I was watching this story, and I started wondering what would happen if the Time Lords learned of Susan's existence on Earth when they were desperate to bolster their forces during the Time War. Maybe they'd conscript her and force her to regenerate into The War Susan, who goes on to obliterate battalion after battalion of Daleks entirely by accident, repeatedly tripping and falling against the weapon controls. Come on, Big Finish!)
- The Daleks' plan is of course absolute nonsense. Even if Earth were unique among all planets in having a magnetic core (?!?!), why would that matter when their plan is to remove it anyway? And what advantage is gained by piloting a planet through space in lieu of a spaceship? Not Terry Nation's finest hour, I'm afraid.
- The teachers both put in a good showing in the final episode. Ian hotwires a planet-killer bomb and survives a fall down a hundred billion miles of excavation shaft with only a torn jacket to show for it, and Barbara improvises an elaborate hodgepodge strategem to bluff the Daleks (...to buy time for Jenny to flail her hands at the air in front of the console. Don't think I don't see you back there!). Trying to modulate her voice with her hand in front of her mouth was cute too.
- "One day, I shall come back..." One of the all-time great scenes, and a promise that has yet to be fulfilled. Despite Carole Ann Ford's apparent willingness to participate (having returned in The Five Doctors, Dimensions in Time, various audios, etc.), the series never really seemed to know what to do with her character. She was written before so much of Time Lord lore was established, and thus doesn't really fit neatly into the series' or the Doctor's mythos anymore. (Surely the Doctor would realize that Susan would outlive David by centuries? No, he wouldn't, because that fact of Time Lord biology hadn't been written yet. Amazing to realize.) It's a mystery I'd love to see RTD tackle during his second administration, hopefully while Ford's still alive.
You probably have no way of answering this, but do you happen to know how long Gallifrey Base's new account approval queue is? Wanting to see that missing episodes thread for myself, I signed up last night but it still says my account needs to be approved by a moderator. (From what you say about the place, maybe that's for the best...)
- This serial is unrelentingly bleak from the jump, beginning with the startlingly dark image of a Roboman walking past a sign about dumping bodies and drowning himself in the river. ("A dead human body? In the river? I should say that’s near murder, isn’t it?" You might be onto something there, Doctor.) There's famine, plague, people selling each other out to the Daleks for a scrap of food... The resistance's rescue operations failing spectacularly and their secret weapons proving useless... But it also features some utterly giddy visuals, like the Daleks in Trafalgar Square and on Westminster Bridge. Those scenes must have been mind-blowing in 1964.
- "Wow, that Dalek saucer looks really good!" said my dumb ass the first time it appeared, before realizing it looked too good and that I was watching the version with the enhanced CG effects. Bleh.
- Yes, the Robomen are inescapably goofy, with their giant electric brain helmets that fall apart at the slightest provocation. And no doubt the subsequent introduction of the vastly superior Cybermen put the kibosh on any possibility of their return. And yet... there's something there, isn't there? Maybe it's that opening image of the suicidal Roboman that's sticking with me, or maybe it's that great Terrance Dicks line about them. Or maybe just that I vastly prefer them to the overt Dalek-ization of humans that the modern series sometimes resorts to, with the fucking eyestalk extending from their foreheads. Extermination is one thing, but there's something exceptionally cruel about irrevocably burning out the entirety of a person's identity to make a disposable worker drone. Although, why do the Daleks set the Doctor with an escape room puzzle to judge his suitability to become a mindless zombie? (Headcanon: only the very intelligent make for useful Robomen; the rest either become vegetables or can only follow very simple commands.)
- VETOED
- Susan continues her unbroken streak of being useless at best and a liability at worst; no wonder Carole Ann Ford was eager to move on at the time. That she manages to cook a rabbit stew in episode 5 without breaking her ankle or falling into a ditch or exploding is remarkable. (My mind wandered a bit as I was watching this story, and I started wondering what would happen if the Time Lords learned of Susan's existence on Earth when they were desperate to bolster their forces during the Time War. Maybe they'd conscript her and force her to regenerate into The War Susan, who goes on to obliterate battalion after battalion of Daleks entirely by accident, repeatedly tripping and falling against the weapon controls. Come on, Big Finish!)
- The Daleks' plan is of course absolute nonsense. Even if Earth were unique among all planets in having a magnetic core (?!?!), why would that matter when their plan is to remove it anyway? And what advantage is gained by piloting a planet through space in lieu of a spaceship? Not Terry Nation's finest hour, I'm afraid.
- The teachers both put in a good showing in the final episode. Ian hotwires a planet-killer bomb and survives a fall down a hundred billion miles of excavation shaft with only a torn jacket to show for it, and Barbara improvises an elaborate hodgepodge strategem to bluff the Daleks (...to buy time for Jenny to flail her hands at the air in front of the console. Don't think I don't see you back there!). Trying to modulate her voice with her hand in front of her mouth was cute too.
- "One day, I shall come back..." One of the all-time great scenes, and a promise that has yet to be fulfilled. Despite Carole Ann Ford's apparent willingness to participate (having returned in The Five Doctors, Dimensions in Time, various audios, etc.), the series never really seemed to know what to do with her character. She was written before so much of Time Lord lore was established, and thus doesn't really fit neatly into the series' or the Doctor's mythos anymore. (Surely the Doctor would realize that Susan would outlive David by centuries? No, he wouldn't, because that fact of Time Lord biology hadn't been written yet. Amazing to realize.) It's a mystery I'd love to see RTD tackle during his second administration, hopefully while Ford's still alive.
You probably have no way of answering this, but do you happen to know how long Gallifrey Base's new account approval queue is? Wanting to see that missing episodes thread for myself, I signed up last night but it still says my account needs to be approved by a moderator. (From what you say about the place, maybe that's for the best...)
Like most of the Cybermen stories after their first, the Robomen aren't used in interesting ways, really. They're just mindless drones, very little body horror or anything is ever used for them. Par for the course, really, for Terry Nation, who often has great ideas that he nearly completely ignores in favor of the same old crap time and time again. I wish David Whittaker was the creator of the Daleks.
I've wanted this shirt for a while (he also has a "It Is Forbidden To Dump Bodies In the River" one too) but then I realize I'd have to explain it to everyone who saw it lol
They bring her back in the Five Doctors, and all she does is trip and sit out the adventure, which is both a fitting tribute to the character as originally written and absolutely insulting and infuriating since Carole Ann Ford can, in fact, act, when given decent material. She's terrifying in The Edge of Destruction, and alien as hell in the first episode of Unearthy Child - I wish she'd gotten more like that.
To quote El Sandifer (who, if you're finding yourself signing up for Gallifrey Base, you should read instead, she's brilliant): "They want to, and I want to stress here that I am not making this up or exaggerating at all, remove the Earth’s magnetic core so they can install an engine and drive the planet around as a spaceship. It is very much unclear why an unaerodynamic planet is the ideal place to do this, or why England is the perfect place to do the drilling here. Clearly, if the Daleks have a fully functional invasion fleet, there’s not a huge need for spaceships. They’re in pretty good shape on that front. So presumably the Earth is to be a sort of prestige vehicle. A sort of Porche for the mid-life crisis of a Dalek. I picture Daleks pulling along upside another planet and saying “Hey Babe. I drive a planet.”
I love Barbara so much.
The Virgin New Adventures did some fun, cool stuff sort of about Susan (though, not starring her), particularly in Cold Fusion - though there's a lot of background lore that even I don't understand in it, having not read all 70+ books or however many there are. There are also some Big Finish audios (because of course there are) where she meets Paul McGann's Doctor and also has a child, but they're pretty meh (though not actively bad, just underwhelming).
Yeah, I'm not sure - I joined (apparently) in October of 2014, so it's been a minute. I suppose I'm not surprised that they have to manually activate everyone since it's a fairly popular board, but I don't know how long it'll take them to get to you, I'm sorry.
I exaggerate how bad it is, for the most part - the Missing Episodes thread is usually - usually - fine, the main bad crap I see is when episodes are new and the usual suspects come in and start complaining about "woke" stuff like *gasp* a black person! A woman! etc. They're the type to skirt the lines of the rules, too, to make it seem like they're just expressing their opinion and not just being blatantly racist. To be honest, I've largely avoided new series stuff (other than The Timeless Child lmao) for years now, so maybe it's better now. I only have 400 posts there, which has got to be less than the number of posts in this iteration of this thread, so that tells you how much I actually participate over there lol
Hahahaha, yes! I've seen you reference El Sandifer a few times now, and I will definitely check out more of her writing.
No worries! Just thought I'd ask.
Ugh, gross. I'll be sure to put on my anti-radiation gloves before posting there. (I've mentioned this before, but I continue to be bewildered as to how right-wing chuds develop any kind of connection with shows like DW or Star Trek, whose values both stated and implied run so contrary to their own. I know I couldn't sit and watch a show that portrayed racism, sexism, etc. as heroic and right, no matter how good the rubber-suited monsters looked. So how do they do it? How can they imagine someone like the Doctor would have anything but disgust and pity for their backwards-ass views?)
Anyway. I'm now watching the behind the scenes material for The Dalek Invasion of Earth. Ann Davies, who played Jenny and who formed a lifelong friendship with Jacqueline Hill, related a story about how Hill and Ford were off in a corner discussing "very personal things" during a break in filming... next to what they believed was an empty Dalek shell. Then the director gets everyone back into places and calls action... the Dalek starts rolling along, and the two actresses just look at each other in horror, hahaha.
They'll bend over backwards to dismiss readings of the show that point towards leftism or equality, and point out - frustratingly occasionally correctly - the strains of reactionary politics that does show up in the show from time to time. Also, they'll profess not to like violence, but will say the Doctor shows that sometimes violence is necessary - you know, that type of shit.
There's a large contingent of fans who think the show isn't political, too - that they just want to watch action adventure type stuff where someone defeats monsters. Nevermind the fact that a lot of those base under sieges were about, in some way, xenophobia - no no no, it's just someone outsmarting aliens and saving the day, it's not about anything, and so on. The Dominators isn't an anti-hippie polemic, no! It's just really mean aliens attacking peaceful people and the Doctor - who is only coincidentally a white man - dropping by to save the day, because those peaceful people certainly couldn't save themselves! .................No joke, these doofuses really don't see the irony here. They also like to "just point out" that the Doctor isn't a British white man, he's actually an alien from the planet Gallifrey, as if that is meaningful at all since the show is fiction and produced by British people. They're pretty annoying people! lol
Welcome to Gallifrey Base!
(seriously, I hope it's better now. I really haven't looked in ages, except for Timeless Children, which was mostly arguments about canon destruction and the like, less "the Doctor still shouldn't be a woman!" as far as I remember)
I was kind of hoping he'd get to get to keep his natural accent since he's supposed to be playing a different incarnation, but alas he really is just playing Ten again. Doctor Who X-2. Interesting Gatwa just keeps getting that one clip, I wonder if that's all we're going to get until be debuts proper, dammit. Not a whiff of Wilf, which sucks, but it's nice to see Donna, and I liked the gag with her mom lol
lol
I've been on a real emotional rollercoaster in terms of what I think about Tennant's return and had been quite down on it for a while, but I watched this video recently that kind of turned me back around to the positive:
One thing I had not been aware of is that Ncuti Gatwa was apparently not available for filming this year due to other commitments. With the 60th anniversary looming, that places RTD in an awkward position: either do nothing for the 60th while you wait for your chosen actor to become available (bad), or proceed with an alternative Doctor in the meanwhile (...less bad??). I suppose you could say "well then RTD shouldn't have cast an actor who wasn't available" and maybe that's true, but in 59 years of this show I have yet to see a miscast Doctor, and if RTD says Gatwa is the man for the job then I believe he's right. So if the solution to this difficult situation is to bring back a fan-favorite Doctor for a victory lap to warm us up for the next proper Doctor... well, I think I can get behind that. Yes, it's still unfortunate that the Tennant hype cycle is overshadowing the Fifteenth Doctor's casting, but Gatwa's time to shine is yet to come.
All of this is a matter of opinion, of course, and the following even moreso: I think there are some narrative missteps from the Tenth Doctor's era that could be corrected or softened here, and that's part of the thinking behind this move. While I'm not against sad/bittersweet endings as a rule, the resolution of Donna's storyline has always sat wrongly with me, perhaps primarily because the Doctor did it to her against her expressed will; she would have rather died than return to the person she used to be, and he denied her that choice. The revived series has had an unhealthy fascination with companions being violently and complicatedly ripped away from traveling with the Doctor, and I would welcome a course correction on that front for who happens to be my favorite companion.
The other is that the Tenth Doctor's regeneration (his rage and despair at realizing it's about to happen, and his last words), while bold and different from the norm, feels out of place now among the serene, introspective and lovely regeneration scenes we've seen since then. I used to try to convince myself that RTD/Tennant could do no wrong when that was all I knew of the series, but from a perspective of a larger understanding of DW as a whole it all now feels rather small and cowardly and un-Doctorly of him. Ten's still my favorite Doctor, and while his return is almost certainly positioned to tickle some lapsed fans into returning, I can't deny that the possibility for him to get a second shot at a dignified exit appeals.
I don't know. Maybe this is all just fan-wankery on my part, but what previously felt like a regressive mistake now feels more like an opportunity to make the best of a bad situation. Ultimately I guess we'll have to see the results to know for sure, but for now I remain hopeful, and even excited.