There's not a way to get yourself into a Dead Man walking situation in RE0 is there? Like if I leave something behind but it turns out I need it and the place I left it in before is now unavailable?
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I'm sure I'll REgret this - Going through the Resident Evil Games
- Thread starter Falselogic
- Start date
You can always backtrack to stuff you left behind, however far off. To be plain, no game in the series allows you to misplace key progress items; despite the adventure game heritage the games aren't built to have those kinds of failstates. The wariness about Code Veronica mentioned upthread, for instance, is about resources like ammunition and optional weapons, which you are allowed to miss and are likely to run fairly dry on when learning the game, its structure and its mechanics.
Oh spiders too now... I should have expected that I vaguely recall those being in RE as well...
This is good to know and a relief! I couldn't recall any from my original plays so long ago. But, then I've been playing old Sierra games recently and I got a lil nervous.
Update tonight but since all the REs are on sale right now over at steam can someone give me a quick summary of the differences and/or pro/cons of the versions of Resident Evil 4? Stick with 2005 or pick up the 2023 remake or is this a case, again, where they are so different as to be different games?
Purple
(She/Her)
Going off my memories of playing the original GC release quite a bit and watching a let's play once of the remake, it is no where near as radically different an experience to to original as all the other remakes are. There's a bit early on where it's trying to push the horror angle a bit harder than the original does, I seem to recall an unpleasant twist with "that dog," I think it drops the one REALLY goofy boss. And for some reason Ashley is not a tiny little mouse that rides in Leon's pocket when not running off after cheese.*
The remake has some Ada-focused DLC that's a pretty meaty little thing and probably worth playing if you have access to that version even if I'd say to just stick with the original for a main story playthrough if you already have that, but HOLY CRAP, the remake was done without the involvement of any union voice actors/directors and it really really really shows with all of Ada's dialog in particular.
* Admittedly the original also suffers from this.
Pretty sure Kishi has a more encyclopedic knowledge of the changes between the two, but again, it's mostly the same game.
The remake has some Ada-focused DLC that's a pretty meaty little thing and probably worth playing if you have access to that version even if I'd say to just stick with the original for a main story playthrough if you already have that, but HOLY CRAP, the remake was done without the involvement of any union voice actors/directors and it really really really shows with all of Ada's dialog in particular.
* Admittedly the original also suffers from this.
Pretty sure Kishi has a more encyclopedic knowledge of the changes between the two, but again, it's mostly the same game.
That was a big bat that killed me quite a few times... And then I had to run back and find the hookshot... And then there was a real unpleasant move these items through this little elevator puzzle section of the game. Then there was the tyrant. Who also killed me a bunch of times. I feel like I'm getting towards the end. I think I still have to save Billy. Some of this feels vaguely familiar now. Though I don't know if it is from RE 1 or 2 or if its just riffing on a horror movie.
I feel like some of this would be more impactful if I had played this closer to its, and the first 3 games' release dates. Maybe then I'd have a better sense of when the game is expecting me to point at the screen and go! "Look its the thing!" It feels like I'm nearing the end here.
I feel like some of this would be more impactful if I had played this closer to its, and the first 3 games' release dates. Maybe then I'd have a better sense of when the game is expecting me to point at the screen and go! "Look its the thing!" It feels like I'm nearing the end here.
Purple
(She/Her)
I mean, the one thing I remember pointing at and shouting "it's the thing" was, and I doubt this would be a spoiler for anyone, the utterly baffling inclusion of a big industrial train turntable from 2, and that was mostly just "wait how does this make any kind of spacial sense?"
Well that and "hey, it's Rebecca, I remember Rebecca, because I actually bother playing as Chris ever."
Meanwhile, basically every Resident Evil game has the same indicator of when you are approaching the end of the game: huh, I seem to have gone from this big gothic art filled location to some kind of science lab where the floor goes all clang clang clang and these zombies are Too Hot For TV.
Well that and "hey, it's Rebecca, I remember Rebecca, because I actually bother playing as Chris ever."
Meanwhile, basically every Resident Evil game has the same indicator of when you are approaching the end of the game: huh, I seem to have gone from this big gothic art filled location to some kind of science lab where the floor goes all clang clang clang and these zombies are Too Hot For TV.
You should treat the RE4s as two different games as with the rest of the series. Base mechanics differ (tank controls for original/no tank for remake, big knife parrying emphasis in remake, on-the-fly weapon switching for remake, etc.), environmental structure differs (large added spaces in the remake along the way, what's there almost always significantly overhauled), enemy behaviour and boss design redone, new setpieces, new mini-games. Narratively, the entire script is rewritten, with tonally very different performances, and greatly altering the screentime and characterization of many cast members to a different effect. The game was always an action epic of considerably longer length than the classic formula series games, so just playing both might not sound too attractive... just know there are and will always be reasons to engage with both if you like what the baseline concept is doing at all.
I don't know what it's like these days, but the PC port of original RE4 had a reputation originally for being highly busted, which is something that has affected virtually every port of it since the GameCube original, which was astoundingly visually impressive for the time and platform, and used many hardware-specific effects to achieve its look that don't work properly or make the transition to other platforms; right from the start the PS2 port was highly compromised in that way and that carries over into modern HD versions. There are massively thorough fan restoration projects you can apply to it these days if you're interested with tinkering, however. I've recently been returning to the GameCube game and remembering that while never my favourite, I did always like the game best in its original form, both audiovisually and even down to nuances of control.
I don't know what it's like these days, but the PC port of original RE4 had a reputation originally for being highly busted, which is something that has affected virtually every port of it since the GameCube original, which was astoundingly visually impressive for the time and platform, and used many hardware-specific effects to achieve its look that don't work properly or make the transition to other platforms; right from the start the PS2 port was highly compromised in that way and that carries over into modern HD versions. There are massively thorough fan restoration projects you can apply to it these days if you're interested with tinkering, however. I've recently been returning to the GameCube game and remembering that while never my favourite, I did always like the game best in its original form, both audiovisually and even down to nuances of control.
Purple
(She/Her)
You know, I hate that phrase in any context, but I genuinely have no idea what you could possibly be implying in this one. RE4's whole deal is switching to a free camera, which is apparently what people always actually mean when they gripe about the earlier games having "tank controls." Elaborate?
Leon moves like prior series protagonists in original RE4, in the colloquial "tank" fashion: the player pressing up always has him move forward, left/right inputs have him pivot in that direction in place, pressing down has him step back while retaining his orientation. As you noted, the big difference that RE4 did was move the camera perspective over his shoulder, while everything else remained the same--except for the also highly impactful shift into a free aiming model, but we're talking about movement primarily. Every third-person, over-the-shoulder RE in the modern run, including all the remakes, no longer uses the tank control scheme: up still moves the character forward, but left/right and down have the character move in those directions while the camera does not swing glued to their backs; the player is given 360-degree control at a whim. Another big difference is that players can also move while aiming and shooting, which was another big defining aspect of the RE brand of survival horror that was kept up until at least RE5 (which was still tanking along). The playfeel between the RE4s is entirely different as a result: you have the original's highly precise, almost digital stop-and-pop positioning rhythms, while the remake offers an arguably more versatile, but looser take on the action with a higher skill ceiling to maximize everything you can do in it.
I strongly feel that RE4 remake is a way better game than the original, but then I didn't like the original much. The mechanics are dynamite, the pacing is incredible and they've updated the writing to make it less creepy. If you want that time-capsule experience, play OG 4, but the remake is a joy to play. And it's still delightfully over the top, even if a few of the hammiest lines from the original have been cut.
(also I've never understood why they call character-relative controls "tank controls" when they're really more like RC car controls. you want a game where the character controls like a tank, try katamari damacy)
(also I've never understood why they call character-relative controls "tank controls" when they're really more like RC car controls. you want a game where the character controls like a tank, try katamari damacy)
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madhair60
Video games
I'm presently playing Code: Veronica for the first time, and nobody can convince me that game isn't festooned with flat-out, clear-cut poor design decisions.
I suppose it's fine if you're told in advance to avoid using any of your decent weapons before the plane fight, but throwing the player into a one-on-one with an unavoidable, un-evade-able Tyrant directly before that isn't a very good way to communicate "hey, hold off on those big guns, pal!"
Edit: Oh yeah, and then the god damn character switch. Hope you put your stuff in the item box!
I suppose it's fine if you're told in advance to avoid using any of your decent weapons before the plane fight, but throwing the player into a one-on-one with an unavoidable, un-evade-able Tyrant directly before that isn't a very good way to communicate "hey, hold off on those big guns, pal!"
Edit: Oh yeah, and then the god damn character switch. Hope you put your stuff in the item box!
Purple
(She/Her)
Checking people's LP footage, while that tyrant goes down nice and easy if you're loaded down, it IS doable with a completely empty inventory, and I think this is basically what I did when I first played it since the first two games had ingrained into me that tyrant == stall and dodge until someone throws you a rocket launcher.
Which isn't to say there aren't some real real rough edges in that one. I seem to recall being thoroughly warned via... the manual? to leave presents out for Chris, but in practice it feels less elegant than the things 2 did along the same lines.
Which isn't to say there aren't some real real rough edges in that one. I seem to recall being thoroughly warned via... the manual? to leave presents out for Chris, but in practice it feels less elegant than the things 2 did along the same lines.
madhair60
Video games
I think there's a long way between "doable" and "reasonable by the standards an average player".
A direct quote from that video: "Everything has to be so specific that it makes me want to tear my brain out".
I'm willing to accept in the majority of instances that I just suck - because I really do - but that was a horrible, horrible encounter.
A direct quote from that video: "Everything has to be so specific that it makes me want to tear my brain out".
I'm willing to accept in the majority of instances that I just suck - because I really do - but that was a horrible, horrible encounter.
To contextualize that first video: it's likely not clear unless you experiment, but club-hands Tyrant has a fairly specific hard counter provided against them in the B.O.W. Gas Rounds, of which only a single pack of three shots exists in the game behind the early-game metal detector segment that you can circumvent later on. They have an effect where each shot halves the health pool of an enemy that's classified as the kind of bio-organic weapon they can affect. The Tyrant applies, so they're best used in the proper plane-ride boss fight against it, with three shots fired in succession leaving it almost depleted of its large health total and needing only a few pokes afterward to prime them for being launched off with the crate.
Purple
(She/Her)
That specific circling strat is pretty nasty, but I seem to recall just running to corners and dodging charges was pretty consistent? It is an uncomfortably tight space though.
Come on! That's a first. Tried running from one of those giant frogs and it grabbed me with its tongue pulled me in, if there is a button combination to get out of the hold I never figured it out. And then instant death?! I don't recall any other time that has happened in this game.
They're probably the most dangerous enemy in the game thanks to that attack. You can stay up close where they only swipe at you with their tongues, or if with a partner they can shoot at them to release their hold. It's also theoretically possible to escape the grab animation by mashing buttons rapidly (this is the standard way to escape/lessen damage from enemy grabs across the series), but in practice it often won't be enough. There's one guaranteed spawn for the frogs, if I recall, and the rest are random in areas where there's flowing water.
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I beat it. Rank B. I unlocked something called Leech Hunter and Wesker mode. I don't think I will be looking into those too much. I've got 10 more games to play already! I don't know if the Tyrant showing up again did much for me, it is a much easier fight with two people. Especially, once I figured out that I could move the other character using the right joystick on the controller?! I really should have looked more closely at the control scheme before playing. That would have been very useful throughout the rest of the game! I don't think I realized it until maybe the last 1/4 or less. But in the second tyrant fight I could use it to be on both sides of the guy and keep him going back and forth without doing much, if any, damage.
I died too many times to the Leech guy. Then I did a run back through the game looking for grenades, bottles and gasoline. Using those and then again trying to split their attention finally made that fight work. And then it was just running around trying to distract the giant thing enough while Rebecca did her thing.
What did I like about RE0: This seems like what I remember as classic RE. Spooky location, a few jump scares, zombies that sometimes are not as dead as they seem to be. A couple of good puzzles (I liked the torch lighting logic puzzle, the dam power puzzle the most, I would have like the powering train brake one if I hadn't have been worried about the timer and bad a mental arithmetic.
What I did not like about RE0: The puzzles that were just take object A from location Z to location Y. Even worse when those were complicated by having to shuffle object A from one party member to the other. Not having enough Magnum ammo. The limited background palette. The training facility is at least coded decadent though it is so dark and muted you'd never be able to tell but even large chunks of it are just grey concrete and brown. Everything after that is just grey and brown. These are prerendered backgrounds?! You can make them beautiful! You can fill them full of detail! Why are they just raw concrete and rusty metal?
We are in Solid B material here so far.
Moving on to Resident Evil!
Do I play as Chris or Jill? I don't remember all the differences. Was Jill easy mode or was there more to it than that?
I died too many times to the Leech guy. Then I did a run back through the game looking for grenades, bottles and gasoline. Using those and then again trying to split their attention finally made that fight work. And then it was just running around trying to distract the giant thing enough while Rebecca did her thing.
What did I like about RE0: This seems like what I remember as classic RE. Spooky location, a few jump scares, zombies that sometimes are not as dead as they seem to be. A couple of good puzzles (I liked the torch lighting logic puzzle, the dam power puzzle the most, I would have like the powering train brake one if I hadn't have been worried about the timer and bad a mental arithmetic.
What I did not like about RE0: The puzzles that were just take object A from location Z to location Y. Even worse when those were complicated by having to shuffle object A from one party member to the other. Not having enough Magnum ammo. The limited background palette. The training facility is at least coded decadent though it is so dark and muted you'd never be able to tell but even large chunks of it are just grey concrete and brown. Everything after that is just grey and brown. These are prerendered backgrounds?! You can make them beautiful! You can fill them full of detail! Why are they just raw concrete and rusty metal?
We are in Solid B material here so far.
Moving on to Resident Evil!
Do I play as Chris or Jill? I don't remember all the differences. Was Jill easy mode or was there more to it than that?
Oh! I wanted to add that I appreciated the map in RE:0 it was very readable. And, it really helped me in navigating the spaces. The last time I tried to play through RE:Make (2023), one of the reasons I dropped it was because I found navigating the mansion so bewildering and the map didn't seem to help much, if at all...
There's a useful series-first map function in the remake that Zero does not share, for whatever reason: rooms where there are still items to pick up or puzzles to solve are tinted red in the map screen and tagged under the "exploring" game state. It makes mopping up areas exceedingly straightforward.
Zero did have colored dots for items in room, if you had interacted with them, but no puzzle indicator. It made me locating ammo I had moved around or dropped very easy to find.
I started the remake last night. I picked Chris. If I do a replay of the original game I will play that one as Jill. When I originally played this game, I did it as Jill IIRC. Though, I'm also sure I never beat it... So, Chris playing on normal difficulty.
Initial thoughts: This mansion looks gorgeous. It really does. I wish I could disable the door opening animation. I feel like I'm doing a lot of running around and those animations really slow things down. They're not necessary either! There is no disc to be loading things from! Also, it isn't the map that bothered me when I picked this up a couple years ago, as I stated above, it is all the camera cuts! That is what is confusing! It feels like this game does it much more often than Zero did and sometimes its okay but other times it is very disorienting! The map is the only thing saving me. So thank goodness for that.
The inventory is so small! And I can't drop objects?! This is already bothering me. It took me out of the game immediately because I grabbed an ink ribbon and some ammo and a gun and my inventory is basically full. So, before I can do any exploring of the mansion, to immerse myself in the game, I have to just run around and try and find a storage bin. So, that is what I am doing now.
Also, these zombies are too strong. I don't recall them needing to take so many bullets in the original? And I'm going to need those bullets because I am not good with the knife (a problem I had with RE4, as well.) I did notice the clear/not clear notification on the maps that you pointed out Peklo. That is a nice touch and much appreciated. I do kind of wish I could annotate the map. It would be nice to note down which doors require the sword key, which the shield, and which the helmet. Just juggling my inventory to carry all of these keys around is giving me a headache. I don't remember any of the puzzles in RE, except I have the sense that most of them are bring object A to place B.
Initial thoughts: This mansion looks gorgeous. It really does. I wish I could disable the door opening animation. I feel like I'm doing a lot of running around and those animations really slow things down. They're not necessary either! There is no disc to be loading things from! Also, it isn't the map that bothered me when I picked this up a couple years ago, as I stated above, it is all the camera cuts! That is what is confusing! It feels like this game does it much more often than Zero did and sometimes its okay but other times it is very disorienting! The map is the only thing saving me. So thank goodness for that.
The inventory is so small! And I can't drop objects?! This is already bothering me. It took me out of the game immediately because I grabbed an ink ribbon and some ammo and a gun and my inventory is basically full. So, before I can do any exploring of the mansion, to immerse myself in the game, I have to just run around and try and find a storage bin. So, that is what I am doing now.
Also, these zombies are too strong. I don't recall them needing to take so many bullets in the original? And I'm going to need those bullets because I am not good with the knife (a problem I had with RE4, as well.) I did notice the clear/not clear notification on the maps that you pointed out Peklo. That is a nice touch and much appreciated. I do kind of wish I could annotate the map. It would be nice to note down which doors require the sword key, which the shield, and which the helmet. Just juggling my inventory to carry all of these keys around is giving me a headache. I don't remember any of the puzzles in RE, except I have the sense that most of them are bring object A to place B.
Man, I understand a lot of games in and adjacent to the survival horror genre wanting to up the tension and realism by not letting you carry around the arsenal of a small army in a bag of holding like other games might, but it seems like keeping half a dozen keys in your back pocket in addition to your other loadout wouldn’t be too much to ask.
They are games of resource and risk management within those means, intertwined with enemy pattern and layout-learning, so all of those aspects need to be carefully considered since they form the core of the play experience. There are plenty of survival horror staples that don't place limits on their inventories, such as Silent Hill (4 excepted), and always in each instance the emphases in game design completely differ when those self-imposed restrictions are removed.
At any rate, six-slot Chris in the first game ends up being an anomaly even within the series, as no full game scenario in the original formula has as limited an inventory space to work with. Zero's duo nominally have the same pocket sizes, but functionally run around with double the room available to them and the opportunity to finagle on-the-spot drop-offs as needed to boot. It need not be gone into in detail, but suffice to say that for every single game after the original game, the inventory median and maximum capacities greatly expand. It's the biggest reason why Chris was intended as the hard mode of the first game from the start, and why his scenario there is unique-feeling still among all the numerous iterations on the same concept; the fundamental play challenges are at their strictest with him in that context, and there's particular fun to be had with the remake's gradually expanding suite of ever harder special modes, or the Advanced Mode offered in the original's Director's Cut release.
The HD releases of the 2002 GameCube duo came out around 2015, before the wider adoption of SSDs as an expectation/requirement in game releases, so they did still need to load. To this day, the only official RE release that has allowed door animation skipping at a button press has been the original game's Deadly Silence version on the DS, which is an excellent port for that and other reasons.
At any rate, six-slot Chris in the first game ends up being an anomaly even within the series, as no full game scenario in the original formula has as limited an inventory space to work with. Zero's duo nominally have the same pocket sizes, but functionally run around with double the room available to them and the opportunity to finagle on-the-spot drop-offs as needed to boot. It need not be gone into in detail, but suffice to say that for every single game after the original game, the inventory median and maximum capacities greatly expand. It's the biggest reason why Chris was intended as the hard mode of the first game from the start, and why his scenario there is unique-feeling still among all the numerous iterations on the same concept; the fundamental play challenges are at their strictest with him in that context, and there's particular fun to be had with the remake's gradually expanding suite of ever harder special modes, or the Advanced Mode offered in the original's Director's Cut release.
The HD releases of the 2002 GameCube duo came out around 2015, before the wider adoption of SSDs as an expectation/requirement in game releases, so they did still need to load. To this day, the only official RE release that has allowed door animation skipping at a button press has been the original game's Deadly Silence version on the DS, which is an excellent port for that and other reasons.
Found a chest. Then found a second chest. That helps a little. Then I learned I have to burn the zombie bodies?! That wasn't in the original was it? So, I did some of that but these giant gas tanks barely hold anything then I messed up. I was worried about saving because I'd only found a couple of ribbons and was doing okay running around the zombies, so I hadn't been saving like I should have . Then I messed up the puzzle where you shuffle knights around and got gassed. Not sure what I messed up. I don't know why I thought it'd just let me continue from outside the room...
It did not do that. And I lost an hour plus of playing. I think I am done for today.
(Those dogs jumping through the windows still get me! Even when I know they are there. Well, there were a couple of places where I thought they were...)
It did not do that. And I lost an hour plus of playing. I think I am done for today.
(Those dogs jumping through the windows still get me! Even when I know they are there. Well, there were a couple of places where I thought they were...)