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I'm playing through all of Final Fantasy, and everyone is invited (Playing Lightning Returns now)

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
I don't think that's true, or if it was I wouldn't consider it a weakness. One of the consistent strengths of this series is that it's always held the interplay of textual narrative and the more holistic narrative springing from game mechanics to be an important part of its storytelling in ways that's never gone away--you could argue they've only made that more central over time, across every individual game's permutations of the overall concept. For some people, those elements shine brightest in IV. Others might value VII, or X, or XIII, or anything else, but no matter what kind of stories these games tell they cannot make their full impression known without utilizing the interactive elements of a video game and the mechanical explorations of RPG systems to amplify the tale. I think VIII is a particularly accomplished work in weaving in foreshadowing and worldbuilding into its beginning building blocks in how you play it that pay narrative dividends later on, and is always cognizant that as much as the player interacts with these concepts through the medium of RPG menus, the same things affect the characters as real, demonstrable phenomena in the world they live in.

Generally I just love the way VIII is written. As mentioned, the interiority that Squall is afforded is completely unprecedented for the series, even coming right after the psychodrama of the Clouds Strife. The difference I think is that in there, it played out like an unraveling mystery story, where the unreliability of Cloud as a narrator left the audience largely external to his... strife, and the resolution therein. With Squall you are given a premier, uncomfortably intimate window into all his thoughts, reactions and hidden anxieties, and it's not possible to look away for the focal role he plays. The rawness of it often leads to high empathization or instant rejection for how unfiltered a look at this character it is, and I think is very precious and genuinely sensitive for the treatment, and leads to some wonderful narrative beats that would not be possible through any other method, like the aforementioned reaction to Seifer's uncertain fate. "I won't let anyone talk about me in the past tense!" is simultaneously a completely preposterous outburst from the point of view of anyone external to Squall, but to see his mind race toward that logical-to-him non-sequitur is both a hoot for the absurdity and terribly sad for the repression that gives it voice in that moment.

I think for anyone playing VIII now, for the first time or revisiting it, I would encourage to just wander off the beaten, signaled path as much as you can, especially if playing the remastered versions that allow one to control their means of play more fully. It's a game that's full of incidental, one-time interactions between characters in places and junctures that one would not expect to find, or for the developers to have taken into account, and at every instance they do. It's so wildly dense in the world that it portrays even as the increased prominence of the Cinematic RPG stylings potentially gives rise to the (false) narrative that it's all pomp without the circumstance.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
Thanks for reading and commenting, everyone. Your comments, and the knowledge that there are people reading my walls of texts, make this project way more fun, than doing it just on my own.

Congrats on the finish. I love the whole final stretch of II, with infiltrating the Jade Passage and going into Castle Pandaemonium. Really makes you feel isolated by the end of it, and the theme for the Emperor's stronghold is just the right sense of pompous and self-absorbed.

Oh, it works very well as a final dungeon. It's brutal, and really makes you feel like you are making your way through Hell. It's long, you get to a weird, lonely castle, and finally even into a weird, space-like void. It is quite well done. And the music, as you pointed out, is pretty great.

Congrats on the finish!

The Emperor is among my favourite villains in the franchise; he's so wonderfully aloof and grandiose. I love how, for much of the game, he's out of sight; you constantly hear about him, witness the destruction that he and his minions cause and resist his schemes, but the man himself is
a complete mystery. It's over halfway into the game when you get your first glimpse of him, in the Colossem— and since it's quickly revealed to be a trap, it's almost like he's deigning you with his presence. And then, when you finally confront him… he simply lounges on his throne and sics his guards on you, only entering the fray personally once you leave him no choice. It's very, very effective characterization, as selling him as this figure who sees everyone as so beneath him.

Also, for some reason I had it in my mind that the Emperor was a hulking knight in the Garland or Exdeath mold, so encountering Evil David Bowie was a surprise and a delight.

The Emperor is a fascinating antagonist, and I'd sign everything you wrote here.
Where I wondered, at the end of FF I, how the four heroes came to be the Heroes of Light, in this case I wonder about the backstory of Palamecia and the Emperor. No one seems to live in the city or the castle. Did the Emperor sacrifice his people, so he would get Hells power? Were the citizens transformed? How did the Emperor even start with his insane plan? Was Palamecia always a dictatorship, and this Emperor finally took it too far? I'd really love some more information, about the live in this city, over the last ten or twenty years, before the game started.

So what is your breaking point with a final dungeon? I don't think you mentioned having this specific issue with FF 1's final dungeon.

FF I seems shorter. And back then, I was ready to start FF II immediately. This time, I clearly need a break, so that might have to do with it.
I don't think I can define even a vage breaking point for me. In general, if there is a difficulty spike, and the dungeon is longer than the one before, I get annoyed. Save points will make that a lot easier, though, because I can take actual breaks, and don't need to do the whole thing in one go. But if I got along fine, and had no problems on my way, but then the last dungeons comes around and every fight starts to be a battle for live and death, I get annoyed.

Honestly, final dungeons in general are probably, in general, a breaking point for me. At this point, I want to get to the end of the story, and just fight the final boss. A good final dungeon, like the ones from FF V, VI and VIII, will make the stalling less annoying, and maybe even somewhat enjoyable. But in general, as there is not much story content there anymore, they always feel like padding to me. But, and this sounds probably very weird, I don't like dungeons in JRPGs in general that much. I have to be in a specific mood for dungeon diving, but it is the exploring of the world and experiencing the story, that makes JRPGs, and games in general, interesting to me. JRPGs specifically offer me boss fights that I enjoy, and I do like even the most basic battle systems. But I would prefer a JRPG without any dungeons (most of them are simply not interesting to explore, to me) and with fixed encounters would be my perfect JRPG.

This all depends on my mood and the game itself. If I'm in the mood, I do enjoy a good dungeon dive, and if I can map something out (like in Phantasy Star I and SMT: Strange Journey) I enjoy myself too. But in general, that is my stance, when it comes to JRPGs.

--------------------------------------------------------

That was a fun journey. I remember, when I played FF II the first time, for real, I was surprised how smooth it actually was. And I still stand by that.

The Dreadnought is a difficulty spike, but I still think it is intentional. It marks the point, were we strike back, and start to gain ground against the Emperor, and we don't let up, until near the end, when the Cyclone is summoned. It is kind of a final dungeon for the first act of the game. The main thing that is missing, is a boss. Considering that we actually meet the Dark Knight there, I find it really surprising that we don't fight him there. Actually, I feel like it is a missstep. Fighting this strange guy, who isn't the Emperor, but still an agent of Palamecia, at this point in the game, would have helped establish him as an antagonist. I mean, he clearly is, but he feels somewhat colorless in this game. And it would sell the point of the destruction of the Dreadnought even more. After this intense dungeon, you would still need the ressources to defeat a boss, who is also significant to the story and our heroes.

Anyway, aside from this (and the Dragoon cave with the Hill Giants. But, considering that they are also random encounters way later, and are way tougher than anything else in this cave, I can't help but think that they were not intended to be there) - aside from this, the difficulty curve works really well.

I did grind a bit, but only for the spells I already mentioned (Esuna, Berserk, Toad), and instead of paying for the ship and airship, I just walked everywhere. This gave me enough time, to be always strong enough for the challenges the game threw at me. It is really well balanced, which is a miracle in itself. Actually, if you just specialise on a weapon type, you will be strong enough to defeat your enemies. I still regret, that I didn't make one a pure mage from the start, but I guess they would be pretty strong with their one spell. You have to specialize, yes. But even then, and even if you don't equip a shield, you will be ready enough.

It is, of course, obscure in some ways. You really need equipment, that makes you immune to all the status ailments the game likes to throw at you. Because you might not have people who can dodge them all, and one hit might be enough (like with the G. Malboros). If you don't know that, and throw away stuff like the Ribbon or the White Robe, you might be screwed. Or you might need to grind something up. Which isn't that much of a deal, I think. Maybe you would need to spend an hour with two shields, but the grind shouldn't be too bad.

But in general, you probably should have some knowledge from outside the game, in particular with regards to special equipment. But honestly, the same is true for FF I. Ribbons are essential, and I can't imagine doing the final dungeon without at least one of the Heal equipments, because you are very soon out of potions and spell charges. You can grind, of course, but so can you in FF II. I honestly think they aren't that different, difficulty wise. If people had played FF II from a young age, like they did with FF I, I imagine it would be liked more.

In any case, if anyone is curious, I really implore you to try the game. You need to be ready for a dungeon crawler and a basic story, and probably should look up which items help against status nonsense, but elsewise, it is a very playable game. It is not inscrutable and it is not broken. And, honestly, getting status upgrades so often is a nice feeling.

FF I is a very fun game, but it also doesn't quite feel like an FF game to me. It is a D&D game, first and foremost. FF II creates way more of the identity of the series, and it feels like it's own thing now. The bestiary is, I thought, more interesting and better looking, and it just introduces a dozen or so monsters, that will stay with the series. Some more, some less so. It has the first antagonist and the first story, that drive you through the game. FF I was a bit of a treasure hunt. You went wherever you could, and collected whatever was there. Here, you are an agent of a resistance, and stuff develops. You have characters like Gordon, who have an actual character arc. And the story is made more real, through the inclusion of characters who travel with you, and then die. Honestly, that alone was huge. That, and the actual destruction of some cities made the pressure and danger way more real. The story is clumsy in some ways, but there are some really great ideas in there, and considering how much of an experiment and departure from the first game it was, it is very impressive to me.

A point that I never mentioned is the keyword system. I like the idea a lot, and finding the library in Mysidia (a bookcase, that has information to all your keywords) was really cool. Like the rest of the story, it isn't quite what it could be. I would have loved to get a few more keywords, and have NPCs that are a bit better defined. So you realized that they might have to say something about a topic, and you could go deeper into the conversation by using the specific keyword. It could have really helped with the worldbuilding. But still, I liked what it was, and learning new keywords felt always nice.

Coming back to things that FF II introduced, that would create a basis for the rest of the series, are stuff like the first Cid, Proto-Moogles and the Chocobo. I still love that adorable bird, and that you can miss it very easily is a shame. There is only one NPC that talks about him, and you might easily miss him. And, considering that the chocobo wood is one single field in a big wood section, it is very easy to actually miss it. And that would be sad, because, like the Beavers, the Chocobo woods are some of the only cheerful and upbeat places in the game. Trying to catch that bird feels like a break from the horrible things that happen throughout the game, the place is like a bit of a sanctuary, so you can play catch with an adorable bird, instead of trying to survive in this horrible world.

I think that's all. I'll take a break from the project now, and play Spyro 2 for the first time. I definitely need a break, but I'm still already looking forward to FF III. I remember enjoying it a lot, when I played it that one time.
 

Torzelbaum

????? LV 13 HP 292/ 292
(he, him, his)
I did grind a bit, but only for the spells I already mentioned (Esuna, Berserk, Toad)
I do think there is a missed opportunity in the remakes to provide an alternate way to grind spells (and maybe skills as well) but I'm not sure how much that would change the flow of the game.
 

Mogri

Round and round I go
(he)
Staff member
Moderator
The FF2 DoS speedrun involves getting Toad to 16 in order to play the toad version of the card minigame. I forget how it pulls that off in a reasonable timeframe, though.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
I'll take this opportunity to link to my pseudo-LP/captioned picture gallery I did of playing FFII for the first time when I went through it about three years ago. Part 1 / Part 2 / Part 3. It's more positive FFII coverage to bring balance to the world. I've returned to the game since, through the Origins release, which is a grand way to replay or experience the game.

Also because there still isn't a way to legitimately play the Famicom version of FFIII in English, I'll put a word in for this fan translation that came out fairly recently. The original English project from twenty years ago is one of those well-known pillars of the scene, and a fine work, but you get more standardized in-series terminology with this treatment and a distinct handling of the script. I've played through and will vouch for it.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
I do think there is a missed opportunity in the remakes to provide an alternate way to grind spells (and maybe skills as well) but I'm not sure how much that would change the flow of the game.

Maybe they could allow you to cast all spells outside of combat? You can level up Cure that way, it always increases by 2 %. Still takes time, it makes it measurable, at least, and probably goes by relatively quick. That said, someone needs to be below max health, so there are just way more opportunities there to use Cure.
But that isn't really in spirit with how the game wants you to see increases in capabilities. It feels like it wants to discourage grind specifically, and make you only use spells and abilities, when you need them.
Maybe they could offer the player a trainer for magic, some guy in Mysidia, who will increase your spell levels for a certain amount of gold? This also feels like it misses the point a bit, but I don't really see a way for stuff like Esuna, which you just don't need to cast that often.

Berserk and Toad are easily fixed, by giving them to the player earlier in the game. When I finally got them, I was probably more than halfway through. Give them to the player at the beginning, or at least earler, so their designated mage can use them during each random battle. That alone would likely give you enough time, to train them all up. I mean, Toad is pretty useless at the start, so it wouldn't matter too much. You would only need to adjust it, so you can take out a single Imp sometimes at level 1, and go from there. Maybe make early bosses better at dodging status magic, but make it so, that your mage can use the spell to get rid of single enemies, so that there is insentive to use it.

With Berserk, it's similar. Some enemies could just be resisting Toad and have a high defense. There were late-game mobs that worked that way. Giving you these spells early would give you more then enough time to level them up, if you just use them. The main problem is, that you get them so late.

I'll take this opportunity to link to my pseudo-LP/captioned picture gallery I did of playing FFII for the first time when I went through it about three years ago. Part 1 / Part 2 / Part 3. It's more positive FFII coverage to bring balance to the world. I've returned to the game since, through the Origins release, which is a grand way to replay or experience the game.

Also because there still isn't a way to legitimately play the Famicom version of FFIII in English, I'll put a word in for this fan translation that came out fairly recently. The original English project from twenty years ago is one of those well-known pillars of the scene, and a fine work, but you get more standardized in-series terminology with this treatment and a distinct handling of the script. I've played through and will vouch for it.

That pseudo-LP was what motivated me to actually try FF II for the first time, a few years ago. I think it actually was the first time, that someone took the time to write a bigger thing about how FF II is actually a fun game. Up to that point, I only heard about it as a horrible, unfun mess. Don't know if I did back than, but let my thank you now for. I'm glad I read it, and took it as a reason to finally play through FF II.

That fan translation is the one that I plan to use. Chaos Rush, the creator, also did a new translation for FF II, and it's the one I used to play through the game this time. I can't compare it to the Japanese version, of course, but I liked it a lot. It was clear what to do, nearly every time in the game (the exception was the part, where I had to get the Wyvern to enter the Cyclone.

It uses the old fan translation of II as the basis for his work, but he took out weird jokes. Like, I think when you meet Borghen, the traitor who sold Fynn to the Empire, in the old translation he says something like "You spoony...guys." Stuff like this is out now, and replaced by a simple translation (that's at least my guess).
 

Fyonn

did their best!
Maybe they could allow you to cast all spells outside of combat? You can level up Cure that way, it always increases by 2 %. Still takes time, it makes it measurable, at least, and probably goes by relatively quick. That said, someone needs to be below max health, so there are just way more opportunities there to use Cure.
But that isn't really in spirit with how the game wants you to see increases in capabilities. It feels like it wants to discourage grind specifically, and make you only use spells and abilities, when you need them.
Maybe they could offer the player a trainer for magic, some guy in Mysidia, who will increase your spell levels for a certain amount of gold? This also feels like it misses the point a bit, but I don't really see a way for stuff like Esuna, which you just don't need to cast that often.

I think this is one of the things that the SaGa series would eventually fix: by making combat hard as nails, you always have to use all your tools, so there's no worry that you aren't casting your attack spells enough because you're gonna die if your casters aren't using their magic.

It's why SaGa has enemies scale with you a lot of the time - not so you can do anything in any order ala your Skyrims, but so that anything you do in any order is guaranteed to bleed your combat resources.
 

Peklo

Oh! Create!
(they/them, she/her)
That pseudo-LP was what motivated me to actually try FF II for the first time, a few years ago. I think it actually was the first time, that someone took the time to write a bigger thing about how FF II is actually a fun game. Up to that point, I only heard about it as a horrible, unfun mess. Don't know if I did back than, but let my thank you now for. I'm glad I read it, and took it as a reason to finally play through FF II.

Damn, thanks! I think I remember you commenting back when I put it up but glad to know it helped you connect with the game more. Best result I could ask for in putting together something like that.
 

YangusKhan

does the Underpants Dance
(He/Him/His)
I think this is one of the things that the SaGa series would eventually fix: by making combat hard as nails, you always have to use all your tools, so there's no worry that you aren't casting your attack spells enough because you're gonna die if your casters aren't using their magic.

It's why SaGa has enemies scale with you a lot of the time - not so you can do anything in any order ala your Skyrims, but so that anything you do in any order is guaranteed to bleed your combat resources.
I've really wanted to see an in-depth romhack of FFII that takes its SaGa roots and essentially backports a lot of mechanics from that series into the game, but still with a Final Fantasy twist. Scaling enemies obviously, but also stuff like: each weapon type now has tech sparking trees, but the techs are based on Final Fantasy Jobs so like you could spark Power Break (for eg.) by using sword & shield and stuff like that.
 

Fyonn

did their best!
That would be one hell of a hack. At that point, you may as well remake the whole thing from the ground up.
 

Destil

DestilG
(he/him)
Staff member
The biggest problem with the skill system is simply the linear growth. Let me gain 2 or 3 levels of a spell from one cast when I’m hitting something that would usually have about 5 skill as a baseline to fight if I’m at 0. Then 1 or 2, then normal growth once I’m say 80% of the way there.

I think the gsme generally caps skill gains like that? But there’s no catch up mechanic.
 

Torzelbaum

????? LV 13 HP 292/ 292
(he, him, his)
Maybe they could allow you to cast all spells outside of combat?
I was thinking the game could allow you to use copies of the skillbook to increase the level of the spell. And maybe there could be manuals for the weapon skills. But there would need to be some kind of cap or limit on that. Also that really does just replace one type of grinding for another.

...

Or what Destil said.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
But I think there is s catch up mechanism, as you describe? I couldn't swear by it, but there was one cave, were at least one character leveled up agility in every battle. It was crazy. I can only imagine that my agilty was too low, and the new monster tier made everyone catch up.

I tried it out, reloaded a save state from the very end, and cast one level 1 Fire spell. It leveled up by 8 points.

Than I went back and fought some Goblins in the first dungeon. It leveled up by 4 points.

So, it does help you out, but not as much as it should be.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
The Gulgan spoke faintly,
“The earthquake was just the
beginning. The tremors that
swallowed the Crystals, the
light of our world, and let
demons crawl to the surface
are nothing compared to
the flood of darkness
that is to come.
But hope is not yet lost.
Four souls will be blessed
by light, and so it begins.

In the remote village of Ur,
four orphands had been raised
by Topapa, a village elder.
A Crystal had fallen into
a cave created by the
fissures of the earthquake,
and the adventuring orphans
had wandered in to test
their courage.​

I played FF III, or a version of it, for the first time, when the DS remake came out. I think it was 2005, something like that. I bought it when it was new, because I was hungry for a new JRPG, and was interested in this old FF, that I had never played, and I think had no fan-translation back than?

It was fine, but didn't do too much for me. I wasn't into old-school JRPGs, back then, and was turned off by the light story, the dungeon-heavy gameplay and the difficulty in general. I also never liked the art style, something that hasn't changed too much. I still highly prefer the pretty pixels of the NES original.

I still liked it well enough, and played up to the final dungeon. I didn't understand, that I had to beat the mini-bosses in there, before fighting the Cloud of Darkness, assumed taht I was underleveled, and gave up.

Some years late, I guess in 2008 or 2009, I replayed the game. I don't remember much of that playthrough, except that I had slightly more fun with it. Knowing what I would get into helped, I guess. But I still didn't care too much about the game, and sold it at some point.

Years later, I would guess 2014 or 2015, I finally played the NES game. I don't remember that playthrough that well either, except that it was the first time, that I really enjoyed the game. Considering that I hadn't played the DS version for a long time, a comparison is probably pointless. But I remembered from than on, that I liked the NES version way more.

That's the backstory. On to the first part of the game.

-------------------------------------------

The first thing that I noticed, was how adorable the Onion Knights look. As do the goblins in the first fight. I can't help but think, that there is an intended contrast to the harsh brutality of FF II. The second game was dark for most of the game. This here looks more cartoony and light-hearted from the start.

This is the first game, that has an introductory dungeon including an easy, introductory boss fight. The dungeon teaches you already a handful of things. You are trapped inside, until you defeat the boss, but due to a healing spring, you can stay forever. The monsters aren't strong enough to kill you in one battle, except maybe if you are extremely unlucky.

There are also objects to interact with, now. In II, there was the stone in the mines, but you needed Josef with you. And I think, you didn't need to interact with the stone. This feels new and interesting (and also potentially frustrating).

The dungeon isn't hard, but it's not completely toothless. You don't miss all the time, but often enough, that monsters can hurt you often enough. And the boss is durable enough, too. It's a callback to the second game, the Land Turtle! Only this time, you can actually hurt the jerk. And you, of course, can find Arctic Winds (I think, I didn't write down the name of the item). It makes the fight pretty easy.

The dungeon ends, by listening to the Wind Crystal, who tells us that we are chosen, and are supposed to save the world from engulfing darkness. Together with the first village, were we learn that our four Onion Knights grew up in, it gives enough backstory to make our heroes characters. Not great characters, but it feels like a big step up from FF I, were the heroes were without any context.

In general, while the story aspect was reduced, it isn't gone. While III is, in some way, FF I done again, just better, II has left it's footprint. We have a backstory, the orphans have a home, and there are guest characters who interact with our heroes. You can also still use items on NPCs, with the B button. It's a nice development, and I didn't realize how clear III took ideas from II. I actually thought it was just on a different branch of the early FF games.

There are some QoL developments to be found immediately. A big one: Attacks on defeated enemies get finally redirected to a random, not-defeated enemy. It immediately made the battles a bit more mindless, though. I mean, I love it, but in the first two games, I had to think about every single action, even if I just attacked with everyone. There was a bigger engagement. Here, I soon sound my thoughts unfocused, as I just had to hit attack with all four, if I wasn't casting spells. I'm actually surprised, about how big the effect feels. Considering that I didn't mind the planning in I and II, I don't really find it a direct upgrade, just a different taste. But it certainly is more friendly.

You can also now change rows in the regular status screen, instead of having to call up a different menu. Also, when a character attacks an enemy, the number of the characters position appears blinking above the monsters head. This is great, because I sometimes just forgot, who attacked which monster. Small, nice things.

Oh, and you now see which monster actually attacks you. The monster blinks for a second, which is just nice to know. All these things aren't big, but they all add and help. I like these changes.

Outside of battles, there are also nice changes. The random, hidden ways are existing in II, but here, they are everywhere. The first town teaches you this, by having a small part with a well and a woman completely enclosed by trees, so you know that there is a hidden way through the trees. Stuff can be interacted with now, even if they are not treasure chests. Pots contain potions and other small things, and the well contains three potions.

In the inn, there is the first dancer lady, who will do a little dance for you when talked to. There is also the first piano that you can play (badly, I might add). And the random tiles that contain stuff, without any visual indication, are thing now too.

Again, not big things, but these little flourishes are nice, and make the world more lively and interesting. Many of these things will be reused in IV, and it's nice to see how they developed, sometimes from II.

Even more stuff that I noticed (sorry, I always think I'm done, and then I think of more stuff. There is so much!), is that you can now buy items in bulks. I mean, one unit is still possible, of course, but four and ten is also a thing now. When you buy equipment or spells, the character (or maybe more precisely, the job sprite) moves, when you are pointing at a piece of equipment that the class can equip. You can still not see if it is an increase in status values, but it is already a big help compared to FF I, where you have now idea who can equip what.

Graphically, the monsters look, again, a bit better than in II, they seem to have more details and character. The land turle not, the one from II looked better (imo, of course), but the goblins look cute and goofy.

The last gameplay change, I think, are spell charges. They are back from one, but you get a decent amount this time. At the first job level, both Black and White Mages have ten level 1 charges, the Red Mage has 7, I think. You can do way more with that amount.

There is, of course, the new job system. And surprisingly, the game doesn't tell you about it, at all. I guess it isn't to hard to find, considering there is a point in the status screen, that lets you change your jobs, but I'm still surprised that the crystal doesn't tell you about it.

There isn't much of an explanation, but it's also not too hard. Everyone starts as Onion Knights,which, I guess, are children who dressed up with wooden swords and played knights. They are very cute!

The jobs you have access to with the Wind Crystals power are Knight, Black Mage, White Mage, Red Mage and Monk. I'm surprised that Thief isn't there, but elsewise, it starts by giving you options that you probably know about already, from the first game. That the jobs also look a lot like their FF I incarnations also helps. That way, you can make an easy decision and just recreate your favourite party from the first game. Maybe Thief was considered too weak for the beginning?

Because, outside of the starting dungeon, the monsters are pretty beefy. I nearly died against a party of four werewolfs, which surprised me. It felt harder than the first two games. FF II especially took some time, to throw strong monsters at the players. But I guess the starting dungeon in III is the equivalent of the first island in I. The monsters after the bridge in FF I are already pretty tough, so I guess that fits.

After nearly dying, I put a second sword on my Knight. Oh, my party for now is Kirk the Knight, Picard the White Mage, Janewe the Black Mage and Sisko the Monk. I feel like that is a decent fit. Unfortunately, the starting town (which is Ur, by the way) has a magic show, but it only teaches you Poisona. There is a cure spell in town, in a hut in the back, though.

One more gameplay thing: You can immediately multi-cast every spell, and it doesn't get as weak as it would have gotten in II. Cure at the start in multicast still heals around 20 HP for everyone.

Well, to continue on with the game, I made it to the next town (Kazus). Where there is only one normal person, everyone else has become a ghost. An earthquake freed the evil Djinn, and he just took away everyones third dimension! Plus there color and all. It always felt a bit creepy.

There is the second Cid in the Inn, and he lends us his airship, hidden in the small desert left of town. Maybe I'm reaching, but that too felt a bit like a callback, and like it made a bit lighthearted fun of the hard to find airship in FF I.

Also, you barely start the game, and already have an airship. Except that everything is surrounded by mountains, and it can't get high enough. It can't even get over a boulder, I guess it just floats above land and water.

The area is governed by the King of Castle Sasune. But everyone there has been turned to ghosts too. Except for Princess Sarah(!), who has a ring that makes her immune. So she made her way to the cave of the Djinn, to trap him again. We get there too. That's actually all there is to get to. Two towns, a castle and two dungeons. It's a nice introduction to the game. Even if the early FFs are relatively open, they guide you well.

I also found the Ice spell, but I forgot where. I didn't buy it, there is only the lacking spell shop in Ur.

So, on to the first real dungeon. Before that, I found a hidden treasure area of the castle (I guess the Ice spell was there?), and also climbed a tower. My black mage had now an attack spell, a bow and two different arrows. Nice!

But the star of the first dungeon was the White Mage. I like how they make him into a killing machine, by putting a lot of undead into the dungeon, which the Cure spell kills very effectively.

But also aside from that, the dungeon isn't too hard. After the first floor, you meet Princess Sarah, who joins you. So, guest characters are still a thing, but they don't do anything in battle. They can be talked to, though, anytime with B. Which gives both them and your characters a bit more personality.

So, the dungeon isn't hard, and assuming you might have a Black and a Red Mage, you get a second Cure spell. Aside from that, you also have to find a hidden way by examining skeletons, victims of the Djinn I guess. You get clued into this, at the Castle or the town. It's still important to get these clues, elsewise you are probably stuck.

The dungeon is short, and you soon reach the Djinn. It isn't a hard battle, and way less obnoxious than the soldier guy from the mines in II. Ten Cure charges are more than enough to kill a few undead and do heal duty during the fight.

Fittingly, the Djinn has a weakness against Ice, the only black magic that you have access to (but only if you explore!). And here, I learned something that I really dislike. Black magic can miss. Even in II, where most low-level spells missed, the elemental spells always hit. Here, the Ice spell sometimes just vanished. Lame, that stuff costs charges, you shouldn't just lose it.

Still, the battle was easy, and the game is nice enough to just teleport us to the castle. We get thanked, and sent on our way. Princess Sarah is very sad to see us go.

There is a second tower in the castle, which contains decently strong monsters. Now, with higher strength, I tried it and made it to the top. A monster-in-a-box waited in the treasure chest. A Griffon! Not a big deal, I think he died in the second round. And he left me a Red Mage-only sword. So I changed Picard from a White Mage to a Red Mage.

------------------------------------

Well, that's it for now. It got way longer than I expected, but that was probably just because of the many new things that I wanted to comment on. Certainly a nice start, and I'm looking forward to make the world larger for the first time.
 

JBear

Internet's foremost Bertolli cosplayer
(He/Him)
I played FF3 for the first time a few years ago (the Famicom version) and was floored by how much I absolutely adored it, and proceeded to write entirely too many words about it on TT 2.0. It was the last main-line FF I hadn't played, and now it's probably by second-favourite after 4.

One thing to note, since I didn't see you mention it, and I think a lot of people miss it: after you exit the tutorial dungeon, if you turn around and go back in, there's a new area with a bunch of starter treasure. This is the game teaching you right away that it rewards thorough exploration.
 

FelixSH

(He/Him)
Thanks, I did completely miss that. Feel free to point out more stuff that I miss, or just forgot to talk about. Or about whatever you want, with regards to the game. :)

It is really nice, how the game pushes you to explore during the beginning (basically everything up to defeating the Djinn). Even aside from re-entering the dungeon, the warehouse in Ur has an NPC who tells you about a hidden switch in the third lantern. There is the hidden way through the trees, the two towers in the castle that you can ignore, or not, and the hidden treasure room (which is mentioned by a guard, after you defeated the Djinn). If you talk to people at the beginning, the game really makes it clear that you should seek out the hidden treasures.

It's also a really nice contrast to FF II, where the hidden passages were all story relevant (I think, if I didn't miss any). It was so linear in every way, and here you have these hidden treasures everywhere, and the game really wants you to know, so you can keep on looking later on. It's really a great way to make the game more like a fantastical adventure.
 

JBear

Internet's foremost Bertolli cosplayer
(He/Him)
I believe it was Mogri who described FF3 to me as an Easter Egg hunt, and I really like that comparison.
 

Mogri

Round and round I go
(he)
Staff member
Moderator
FF3 shares a ton of DNA with FF4, especially in terms of town/castle design. It's fascinating to see those gaps filled in when you play it for the first time.

I'm glad you're playing the Famicom version. It's much better than the remake.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
I'm glad you're playing the Famicom version. It's much better than the remake.

I've only ever played the remake, and I had a lot of fun with it (even if Mognet was a bust). I particularly liked how making Refia a Geomancer from the word go, except for that one boss fight, consistently came up with the more damaging spells like consecutive Shadowflares. These are really the Ur-examples of a well-crafted job system.

(The item duplication glitch that let me dupe Phoenix Downs at will probably influenced my enjoyment.)

Presumably I should go back to the Famicom version, even with the downgrade to the music?
 

Lokii

(He/Him)
Staff member
Moderator
Yeah both the OG and the remake's music is strong even if the expression is different. Eternal Wind is a GOAT overworld theme and I think both versions capture its ethereal quality well.



I like the Dissida version quite a bit too.

 

JBear

Internet's foremost Bertolli cosplayer
(He/Him)
I didn't actually play the remake, but given what I've heard about it, I don't intend to. I'm happy it exists for the folks that enjoyed it, but it sounds uniquely awful to me, since it replaces the charming music and visuals that I fell in love with, grafts names and personalities onto the characters, obscures the original's unique DNA links to FFIV & V (which was a large part of my enjoyment), and makes systemic changes that I'm confident that I'd hate (primarily the job system, which sounds awful and completely counter to what I like about the original's).
 

4-So

Spicy
I've fallen off both the Famicom version and DS version of Final Fantasy 3 whenever I've tried them, but Eternal Wind is such a damn good track.
 

Zef

Find Your Reason
(He/Him)
"Downgrade" to the music. ;)

Well, I mean no disrespect to the original, but I grew up with this version and the Love Will Grow version (alternately, the FF Pray "Voyage"* as well), so the DS one was the closest representation of the sounds. I admire what the NES sound chip is putting out, and how the original compositions deal with the limited instrumentation, but I do still prefer the remixed versions :p


* NGL, I hadn't listened to this track in decades, and listening to it again just now sent my mind all the way back to a happy place in high school.
 
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Torzelbaum

????? LV 13 HP 292/ 292
(he, him, his)
Is there some kind of Japanese pun in the name Onion Knight that just wouldn't survive the translation? Because I really wonder exactly why that name was chosen.

There are also objects to interact with, now.
In FF 1 there were a rare few objects in towns and dungeons that you could 'interact" with outside of your quest objectives but all you got out of that was a little bit of text.
 
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I started playing the PSP version of FFIII (which is a port of the DS version that you've played before), and I'm a bit behind you, having gone part way into the cave full of undead before a mummy ambush forced me to turn back. I have played the Famicom version before, but that was over 20 years ago, so my memories of it are pretty hazy.

Aside from the graphics being completely redone in 3D, the most apparent difference in this version is that the characters are more defined, with individual designs and backstories, including official names. You can rename them, but I didn't. At the very beginning, you only have Luneth, an orphan raised by the elder of Ur, and after beating the Land Turtle and leaving the tutorial cave, you can pick up Arc, another such orphan, Refia, the daughter of Kazus' blacksmith, and Ingus, a guard from Sasune castle. Arc's character arc (...) so far is that he was bullied for being afraid of ghosts and ran off to Kazus, a town where everyone is a ghost. Refia ran away to get out of blacksmith training, so she was outside Kazus when the Djinn cursed it and turned everyone else into ghosts, and now I guess she has survivor's guilt and won't even enter the town until the curse is lifted? Ingus was also away from Sasune when it was cursed, but there hasn't been any explanation of where he'd gone or why.

The other big change, which I assume will only affect the beginning of the game, is to the job system. The basic job is Freelancer rather than Onion Knight, and like FFV's Freelancer, it can equip anything. It can also use level 1 magic, both white and black. So basically, everything you find early in the game is usable by Freelancers... which is good, since it's the only available job! Even though the scene where your party, or just Luneth in this case, finds the crystal and learns that they're the chosen ones still happens at the end of the tutorial cave, it's not the trigger for obtaining the first set of jobs anymore. I'll have more to say about jobs in this game once I can use more than one of them.

Some little things I thought were worth commenting on:
You can press L to zoom in, which causes interactable objects to sparkle. I'm not sure whether you have to do this to interact with them, though? You can definitely grab items in pots and stuff just by running around mashing X, but things like hidden wall switches might require zooming.

There are monsters in towns! Specifically, in the northern part of Ur, and in that one tower in Sasune. This is wild. It reminds me of old PC RPGs like Might & Magic, where the distinction between towns and dungeons was often blurry at best.

Many of the monsters in this game are immediately recognizable 3D interpretations of the original's, but the goblins (which were indeed cuter than the ones in the first two games) have been redesigned for some reason.

The ghostly shopkeepers in Kazus blend into the shop backgrounds well enough that it's hard to see where they are. Since you can't buy anything from them anyway, I guess it doesn't matter that much. Incidentally, I always liked the visual gag of the 2D ghosts, and it's cool that the 3D remake of this game still has it.

Refia comments upon Ingus joining the party that his sword is worth twice those of Luneth and Arc, which is a pretty weird thing to say when she definitely hasn't seen him fight yet, and probably hasn't seen Luneth or Arc fight either, since you probably flew the airship straight to Sasune after she joined. Also, he doesn't even start with a sword equipped.

When you open the chest with the Wightslayer, you actually get the weapon before the fight with the griffon starts, and can equip it during that fight.

There is an option to use the original or rearranged soundtrack. I've played with the new music so far, but I think I'll switch in my next session and see which one I like more.
 
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