R.R. Bigman
Coolest Guy
Thanks for the inputs. I went into FF6 with no expectations, and was very shocked at how good it was. I will keep my expectations in check for FF4.
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I'm playing through all of Final Fantasy, and everyone is invited (Playing Lightning Returns now)
- Thread starter FelixSH
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FelixSH
(He/Him)
Just keep an open mind, and try not to compare it to FF VI. That game came some years later, after all. To me, IV always felt like it still had a lot of nes rpg dna, partly due to how it looks, but also dungeon design, difficulty, and so on.
If you keep the right mindset, including the age of the game, you will have fun with it, I think.
If you keep the right mindset, including the age of the game, you will have fun with it, I think.
FelixSH
(He/Him)
If I had it played at that age, when it came out, I would have loved it. If you take into account when it came out, it's pretty amazing.
But when you are 14, and it's already 2001, so you have access to a lot of other rpgs (like FF VI and Chrono Trigger), IV just feels lacking. Back then, I gave up on it, and played those two instead.
Well, a friend of mine told me that SNES FF4 has aged horridly, and that PSP FF4 fixes most of its issues while still being largely authentic to the base game. So I'll be giving that a try when I feel like playing a jrpg lol. Maybe the game will finally redeem itself!
I told a friend that FF4 was the worst one for ages and he disagreed until he did a play of basically all the early ones. It's just not very good.
"Seinfeld" Is Unfunny - TV Tropes
There are certain works that you can safely assume most people have enjoyed. These shows were considered fantastic when they were released. Now, however, these have a Hype Backlash curse on them. Whenever we watch them, we'll cry, "That is so old …
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This thread: "Final Fantasy IV is bad, actually, unless you're blinded by nostalgia."
Me: "Final Fantasy XIV is bad, actually, unless you're blinded by hundreds of hours of sunk cost."
Final Fantasy IV is literally my favourite video game, and I have played quite a lot of them. I have played it countless times, and the mechanics stood up well enough to make the Free Enterprise Rom-hack sing, which in turn allowed me to play it countless more with challenging remixes. Even ignoring the story entirely, I find it really fun and engaging and mechanically sound (to say nothing of being an aural delight). It has a bunch of fun puzzle bosses, and constantly remixes your party and challenges you to optimize your new combinations, a la the also-excellent early game of FFXIII. Like the amazing FF3 before it, many of the areas, including the towns, are fun easter egg hunts full of passages and secrets that I was still discovering literal decades later, a la Symphony of the Night. As far as I'm concerned, it is unimpeachably great.
But sure, I guess it can't compare to collecting 15 behemoth livers or whatever.
Me: "Final Fantasy XIV is bad, actually, unless you're blinded by hundreds of hours of sunk cost."
Final Fantasy IV is literally my favourite video game, and I have played quite a lot of them. I have played it countless times, and the mechanics stood up well enough to make the Free Enterprise Rom-hack sing, which in turn allowed me to play it countless more with challenging remixes. Even ignoring the story entirely, I find it really fun and engaging and mechanically sound (to say nothing of being an aural delight). It has a bunch of fun puzzle bosses, and constantly remixes your party and challenges you to optimize your new combinations, a la the also-excellent early game of FFXIII. Like the amazing FF3 before it, many of the areas, including the towns, are fun easter egg hunts full of passages and secrets that I was still discovering literal decades later, a la Symphony of the Night. As far as I'm concerned, it is unimpeachably great.
But sure, I guess it can't compare to collecting 15 behemoth livers or whatever.
4-So
Spicy
Very Ignis voice
"That's it! I've just come up with a new recipe."
Now imagine some behemoth livers with some shallots and a lovely pinot noir.
"I ate behemoth liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti.'
Yeah, this is worth noting as well. There isn't any character-building in the traditional sense, but there is room for player expression via equipment, such as emphasising whips/bow versus casting for Rydia/Rosa, or significant gear such as the drain weapons or the avenger sword.
Except it's worse than 1 2 and 3."Seinfeld" Is Unfunny - TV Tropes
There are certain works that you can safely assume most people have enjoyed. These shows were considered fantastic when they were released. Now, however, these have a Hype Backlash curse on them. Whenever we watch them, we'll cry, "That is so old …
FFXIV has issues for sure - MMO bloat being probably the biggest. But I was more comparing FF4 to the other 2D entries in the series, all of which I would argue it fails to live up to (I'd make an argument even for II being more interesting, at least mechanically, if a bit off putting to most sane individuals).
...I kid, honestly. If I'm coming off more hateful than I intend, I'm sorry. I'm just not a FF4 fan and I was being honest with R.R. Bigman.
...I kid, honestly. If I'm coming off more hateful than I intend, I'm sorry. I'm just not a FF4 fan and I was being honest with R.R. Bigman.
gorha
For the Ylory of Mankind
I'm curious; what respeccing did you do with solo Cecil? I know he can use a lot of the gear meant for mages because he technically is one, but I've never really used it outside of the magnetic cave.
I was waiting with bated breath for you to show up to this discussion.
FelixSH
(He/Him)
The guy who did solo challenges for all the jobs in ff v also did a Cecil Solo run. If you are interested in how that looks, I suggest that.
It's a bit since I've read it, but I think he had some frustrating speedbumps, because the game is simply not made to be beaten by just Cecil.
Regarding the complexity of FF IV, you might be able to play around with equipment, but it is still the most simplistic FF, mechanically. You can play around with equipment in every FF, but you also get to decide how to grow your characters, or materia, or something. Nothing of that is here.
Which is fine. It's simple to play, in that regard, no need to defend it there.
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I was getting stonewalled by the refight with the four fiends until I chose to optimize for magic defense instead of physical defense. I recall the difference being astonishingly impactful, and decided to ride most of the rest of the game/post-game like that.
(For the Sealed Cave, I abused the GBA version's ATB glitches to grant myself extra turns >_>;; (a better strategy might have been to stock up on reflect items, but I'm not sure how viable farming for that stuff is now that I think about it))
This was my situation with the game. I know the history, and what it meant to people at the time. I know that for a game from 1991, on a brand new system, and in a region where games like this just didn't really exist much either, it was something special. I didn't have that context. So I just saw a very primitive game with a very succinct story, and a lot of old school grinding. FF6 was a much better time (and even then, that didn't live up to its reputation IMO).
Some older classics hold up better than others. Where the games were so mechanically tight, or the pixel art was so good, that they still can invoke awe or at least entertainment in a modern audience without the context of nostalgia. But to me, that's not really going to be the case with most 8 or 16bit RPGs. There's just been so much iteration and evolution in that space that most of that genre's classics -- even beyond FF -- that there are very few of them that feel timeless. Especially the turn based variety.
So which RPGs from the 8 and 16 bit era live up to their reputation, in your opinion?
FelixSH
(He/Him)
I didn't even know much about a reputation. I had no internet up to 2001, and only vaguely knew the name Final Fantasy. No idea why, because I had missed how popular FF VII was. I had an N64, and only read magazines for it, so everything about the PS went past me. I did know, that I enjoyed rpgs, and wanted to play them. No idea why, because I didn't really get much of a chance to play any. I only knew they looked cool and interesting, with their turn-based battles.
So I had no idea, how good any specific FF was, or even how many there were. But I, of course, immediately found emulation, and then got the snes FFs. Tried IV, maybe also V, and then VI - was immediately catched. Same later with Chrono Trigger. If I had known about their reputation, they would have not disappointed, I adored both games, and for a long time, considered them my favourite games. I even wrote a guide for Chrono Trigger, which should still be up on gamefaqs. I assume it's not well written, but should be thorough. It's also German, so no one here will be able to read it.
So I had no idea, how good any specific FF was, or even how many there were. But I, of course, immediately found emulation, and then got the snes FFs. Tried IV, maybe also V, and then VI - was immediately catched. Same later with Chrono Trigger. If I had known about their reputation, they would have not disappointed, I adored both games, and for a long time, considered them my favourite games. I even wrote a guide for Chrono Trigger, which should still be up on gamefaqs. I assume it's not well written, but should be thorough. It's also German, so no one here will be able to read it.
On the FF14 front, I unlocked Haukke Manor. I was sent on an investigation to chase down the black cloak guys. On talking to witnesses, its almost immediately obvious these guys didn't see robe guys, but there's murders involved, so we investigate anyways and it leads us to the next dungeon.
I like this dungeon. the boss room is right in front of you, but its locked, so you have to get a series of keys, go to the basement and then warp back to the front door. The boss, i think is trying to up the complexity. I played with NPCs and I was Marauder. I think I was supposed to use my Stun and my Interrupt to alternatively prevent her ability and then her spell that would paralyze and stone me. I did manage to just look away from the stone ability and that worked. The NPC buddies don't help much with this, but failing all of that just means the fight takes a bit longer.
After that, I went and did my level 30 job quests. Rogue quests continue to be fun and I'm sad that i'm being passed off to the Ninjas.
I like this dungeon. the boss room is right in front of you, but its locked, so you have to get a series of keys, go to the basement and then warp back to the front door. The boss, i think is trying to up the complexity. I played with NPCs and I was Marauder. I think I was supposed to use my Stun and my Interrupt to alternatively prevent her ability and then her spell that would paralyze and stone me. I did manage to just look away from the stone ability and that worked. The NPC buddies don't help much with this, but failing all of that just means the fight takes a bit longer.
After that, I went and did my level 30 job quests. Rogue quests continue to be fun and I'm sad that i'm being passed off to the Ninjas.
You'll see them again.
Gratz on doing Castlevania FF edition. There's a remix at level 50.
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
Not many on NES, but I think Dragon Quest III/IV do. Final Fantasy III, and to a lesser extent, the original.
On SNES, a lot more for me, but it's been a long time since I made an FFVI run. But Chrono Trigger absolutely holds up. I also think Lufia II does. I had a blast with Treasure of the Rudras recently as well. Super Mario RPG is still great. In ARPG territory you've got the Quintet trilogy, especially Terranigma, although Soul Blazer is a rollicking good time, too. (Also, if you count it, LttP, duh.)
If we start talking Sega, I think Phantasy Star IV is the top of the list, followed by Shining Force I/II. I also dig most of the system's ARPGs (or action-adventures, depending on how strict you want to be). Landstalker and Beyond Oasis are great, and King Colossus is a really fun one as well once you start getting better weapons.
On SNES, a lot more for me, but it's been a long time since I made an FFVI run. But Chrono Trigger absolutely holds up. I also think Lufia II does. I had a blast with Treasure of the Rudras recently as well. Super Mario RPG is still great. In ARPG territory you've got the Quintet trilogy, especially Terranigma, although Soul Blazer is a rollicking good time, too. (Also, if you count it, LttP, duh.)
If we start talking Sega, I think Phantasy Star IV is the top of the list, followed by Shining Force I/II. I also dig most of the system's ARPGs (or action-adventures, depending on how strict you want to be). Landstalker and Beyond Oasis are great, and King Colossus is a really fun one as well once you start getting better weapons.
To add to what others have already said:
I think all of the 16bit Mana games hold up relatively well; mild jank aside. The 16bit SaGa games also are a lot more rich than their contemporaries in terms of mechanics and story and have modern remakes. Dragon Quest V has a better than any 16bit FF IMO. The original Ys games play terribly, but the remakes of them are solid. Live-A-Live just got a remake and is good. Tales of Phantasia or Star Ocean -- I don't think either game holds up as well as their more modern counterparts, but they're better than FF4 lol. Both probably should have been delayed and cleaned up to release on a 32bit console the way Suikoden was.
4-So
Spicy
If I didn't know someone's predilections but for whatever reason they said they were curious about 8/16-bit RPGs, I'd recommend Chrono Trigger and that's about it. As much as I adore Earthbound, I wouldn't recommend it due to relatively tedious inventory system among a few other things. Couldn't recommend a single FF or DQ. I've never played the Phantasy Star games (besides Online) but based on my limited knowledge, nah, couldn't recommend those either. Something that has a story with enough of a hook and gameplay that would keep someone with more modern sensibilities at least mildly engaged?
Plenty of great games from the era - especially my beloved FF4, god dammit - but to recommend to someone as something that's still fun, engaging, and absolutely worth playing? Again, Chrono Trigger is the only thing from the era that comes to mind. If it was a Nintendo person, obviously I'm going to mention Super Mario RPG, which I think also fits the bill. But not everyone cares about Nintendo.
On the flipside, if I know this theoretical person already likes RPGs but maybe they're half my age and they're looking for a good "retro" experience, I have a lot more recommendations to give. And that would include FF4.
Plenty of great games from the era - especially my beloved FF4, god dammit - but to recommend to someone as something that's still fun, engaging, and absolutely worth playing? Again, Chrono Trigger is the only thing from the era that comes to mind. If it was a Nintendo person, obviously I'm going to mention Super Mario RPG, which I think also fits the bill. But not everyone cares about Nintendo.
On the flipside, if I know this theoretical person already likes RPGs but maybe they're half my age and they're looking for a good "retro" experience, I have a lot more recommendations to give. And that would include FF4.
