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I'm playing through all of Final Fantasy, and everyone is invited (Playing Lightning Returns now)

Yeah, that these three games weren't planned as a trilogy feels obvious, after playing them. It still works, on the whole, even if it's obvious that they don't know what to do with Sazh, for example.

I think part of it, that I just really like Lightning and Serah, and their relationship. And just, well, Lightning is just cool.

Reading through these posts reminds me of all those little details, that made the setting of a dying world in stasis work so well.
 
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Regarding the whole series, I wanted to start with a stat.
I logged my completion time for all the games. Total time to finish FF1 through 13-3 (excluding 11) was 462 hours and 50 minutes. I finished FF1 in a scant 7.5 hours. 2, 3 and 4 were low teens of hours. 5 was in at 23.25 hours. 6, 7 and 8 all clocked in a little over 30 hours. 9 was 42 hours on the dot. 10 and 12 were over 50 hours each and 13 was a little shy of 50. So generally, the trend was longer over time. I started on my birthday, February 2024, so about 16 months to finish 15 games (plus Crisis Core, but I didn't include that in this data). For me, that's a pretty good clip. My biggest success was going in with a plan to focus more on "speed" than "completion". That's not to say anything would be considered a speedrun, but to break me of any mindset of perfect being the enemy of good. I was picking at the first few hours of these games since I was around 10 years old.

If I HAD to pick a favorite, it would probably be 5. I like the more comedic tone and Exdeath's mustache twirling villain act. And the job system is really fun. FF2 was the standout surprise in the early titles. The pixel remaster is very playable without much silliness. The story feels like a big leap forward. FF13 is the other surprise. Staggering enemies and putting up huge numbers is fun. The cast comes together in a way that adds drama whereas most of the series pretty much amounts to "so and so has joined the party". 13 was almost never a slog, except a bit in the final dungeon. Though it was not much of a surprise, I really loved 6, 7, 9 and 10. I love the big cast in 6 and the epic final dungeon and boss fight where everyone gets to participate. I love the moody, dark and diesel-punk feel of the world of 7, its characters and its world full of shadows and secrets. And I love the bright colors and cartoonishness of 9 which just juxtoposes the darkness and makes it all the more stark. 10, like 9 has that amazing colorful setting and colorful cast that gets amped to 11 with really memorable voice acting. And you have to appreciate the foundation building of 1, 3 and 4. They are mostly usurped by future titles, but they are important for laying the groundwork. Even the ones that I would say weren't my favorites (8 and 12) were still solid and enjoyable jrpgs and both had good moments.

Series wide, I have always liked the comonalities without retreading ground. Even as the elemental crystals have fallen out of favor, crystal is still important imagery in 13 (and 14 brings back the crystals and elements). We've had mad would be gods like Kefka, Sephiroth and Kuja. a few times the bad guys have an actual god standing behind them, but i think its mostly evil men reaching for ultimate power (except for 8, which has an evil woman). We've had a good number of evil emperors or other heads of state (or company in Shinra's case), but usually the empire is not enough for our great evil men (and one woman) who need even more. And its not too rare for the evil empire's ambitions to result in a defection to our team, or the return of a former betrayer. But, even though all these games have some common threads, I really like that the effort is made to make them each unique.

And I really appreciate anyone who spent time reading my ramblings. Even if nobody responded, I still enjoyed writing something. I've only told a few people in my real life about this and usually normal people will only tolerate a sentance or two, so its nice to have an outlet. The fact that anybody at all read some of it and created some conversations was an happy accident.

And thank you specifically to Felix for being welcoming of my joining your thread and providing some inspiration and for responding. It has felt very welcoming and positive, so I greatly appreciate it.
 
I loaded up FF14 and played through the first dungeon.

While FF14 is an MMO, i would argue that it is very single player friendly. Mechanically, its much faster paced than FF11 and works similar to other MMOs of its era, like world of warcraft. It keeps the job system from FF11, though so you can level any number of jobs on one character and the game is pretty generous with inventory space, so there's not a need to have "alts" or "mules" at a casual level of play. You pick your starting race and job and that determines your starting city and the opening quest line. The game divides all jobs into 3 roles: Tank, Healer, and DPS. In a dungeon, you're expected to be in a party of one tank, one healer, and 2 dps. So unlike FF11, party size is smaller. Technically its more rigid in its construction, but for all intents and purposes, FF11 had the same structural requirement for forming parties. Because of the smaller party size, and the requirement to do everything else solo, all jobs have capable damage dealing abilities, so in a party setting, everyone is expected to do some damage. Outside of the dungeons, the game expects you to play solo. Quests give exp and cash and gear rewards and is the primary method of leveling your first job. Oh, and you can change your job by changing your main hand weapon, so you don't have to go to town to change jobs. Everyone gets a Warp and Teleport type ability, and the world is significantly less dangerous. Basically, the game world doesn't require you to level jobs for utility abilities or pay other players for those abilities like FF11 did.

The game world feels to me like a bit of a mashup of FF11 and FF12. There's 3 starting cities, just like FF11. none are repeats, but they fill similar vibes. Like FF11, there are other continents, but those are just distant lands (aka expansion potential) with different cultures. The main exception is the Garlean Empire, which is on another continent, but tried to invade Eorzea (our game world) in FF14 1.0 and is also involved in the plot of 2.0. the Garlean Empire is pretty similar to the Archadian Empire from FF12 with maybe a nod to FF6 too. They use Magitech weapons and often are talking through helmets so they have the same muffled voices as the FF12 judges.

Similar to FF11, each city has a corresponding beastmen tribe that is fighting over the land around that city. Each beastmen tribe is connected to a particular Primal that they can summon and the early game plot mostly revolves around trying to stop that from happening and when it does, defeating those primals. as you go, these masked and black robed figures keep showing up (because they are pulling the strings obviously). Since you don't have a party to interact with, the game introduces you to the various members of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn and each city has notable NPCs that have reoccuring roles. The main story treats your character as the chosen one though and all the other players are just regular adventurers that might assist you.

The early quests for each starting city have you visiting the two starting zones, progressing deeper into each zone at various little outposts and solving local problems. Or at least it used to. Now the game uses the bare bones version, cutting as much lore as possible to get you from the opening cutscene to your first group dungeon with minimal fuss. So in Ul'dah, you will almost immediately rescue the Sultana, then jump to helping the sultana's personal guards recover her stolen crown. In a couple of hours, you are the hero of the city. From there, you get an airship pass, visit the other two starting cities, meet their leaders and then go straight to your first dungeon. Tonally, what i just described fits right in line with the FF storybook. In FF7, you don't spend 30 hours rising through the ranks of AVALANCHE, you jump right in to bombing a reactor and you're chatting with President Shinra a few hours later.

Dungeon number 1 is Sastasha. You go through a sea cave, fighting some wildlife, then open a secret door into a pirate hideout. You get keys and fight to the pirate boss, who runs away like a coward, deeper into the cave where it turns out the pirates have trespassed into Sahagin territory and you fight a Sahagin boss. The boss starts off solo, but there's trap doors in the floor that can summon more minions. A ranged role can stand on the trap doors and click them to keep the door shut and prevent the extra minions from spawning. With even moderately good damage, you can finish the encounter by just killing the boss before the added minions get out of control. But if damage is below expected, the minions will quickly overwhelm the party as more and more spawn. Its a nice introduction to group content. However, i think its too easy for a new player to get carried through this dungeon and miss the lessons you're supposed to learn. Only one player gets to engage with unlocking the secret door and the boss mechanic is irrelevant unless the whole party doesn't know what they are doing.
 
After doing Sashasta, you jump right to Tam Tara Deepcroft and then Copperbell Mines.
TTD is pretty simple. The boss summons minions that make it invulnerable, so you have to deal with them. Also its a mindflayer from FF1.
CM is also very straightforward path through some mine shafts. The boss teaches you about more complex AoE patterns.
At the end of the 3 dungeons, you've been through the tutorials and the game kicks right into the next phase.
You meet the Scions and the Seventh Dawn and learn about their mission to stop the Primals and then jump into the questline for the Amalja and Ifrit.

The lead up to Ifirit is supposed to be an investigation. You're supposed to be talking to people and uncovering a mystery. So, you spend most of this questline talking to people at various locations. There were a lot of quests like this in FF11 too, where the challenge was in getting to the location, often deep in monster infested areas. Or maybe the characters are interesting, like the cat burglar Nanaa Mihgo (a cat-person who uses rolled r's in her dialog) This quest line has neither. You can mostly walk past the aggressive monsters and the NPCs are completely forgettable. However the last quest has you set an ambush, but then there is an unexpected twist and i do think that part is fun. The bad guys ham it up.

There's a lot of references in FF14 too. They use the line "blame yourself or god" in this questline. The Scion's password is "Wild Rose" from FF2. Even though i find some of the MMO design a little grating, I can see the love and detail that was poured into this world and the effort to reward series fans with easter eggs.
 
Shame about the redone Maws of Totorak you're going to do. The original was mess admittedly, but they overcorrected for the revamp,
 
Years ago, before I started this project, I played a bit of FF XIV. Made a catboy in that desert starting area. Never saw a dungeon, just did all the quests in the city. Because it was quite enjoyable, just existing in this world, with writing that felt somewhat better than I would expect. I felt like I learned something about the world and it's characters, by doing those quests.

But then, I decided to wait, until I played through all FFs before, so I would get all the references. Someday, I will start playing this, and likely loving it.

It's good to know, that quests aren't just monster killing or getting 10 bear butts (even though that exists too, of course). A shame, that this instance didn't work out that well, but I'm glad they were trying to mix it up.
 
I swear 90% of quests in FF14, oddly enough, follow the format of: Talk to this person, then go over there and talk to that person... who may sometimes be the first person, and in a surprising number of cases they don't even move we just are locked into this accept/complete format and you have to talk twice.

I do prefer that to kill 12 rats, but it's odd.
 
I fought Ifrit with NPC buddies. Its pertty straight forward. Because the NPCs are not as powerful as players, the fight feels a little more tense.
After the fight, we get an explanation that the Primals power is related to the number of worshipers and the Primals can "temper" individuals to make them worship. Tempering won't work if you've been tempered already or if you have the Echo (which we do) and there's no way to undo the effect. The Scions are looking for a permanent solution because the various tribes keep re-summoning their primal and each time the various nations and their grand companies lose some soldiers in the process, so its wearing us down.

Then the story introduces the Grand Companies for each nation. You have to join one and its how you get your first mount, but first you have to make another tour of all 3 cities to hear a speech from each of the leaders. I actually like these as it gives you a feel for the flavor of the two nations you didn't start in. I joined the Maelstrom, because I like color red.
This is also where you meet Louisoux's two grandkids and you also meet the airship engineers Biggs and Wedge. The airship is called the Tiny Bronco, so the references keep coming.

Next, its off to Gridania to talk to the Sylphs. They are a tribe of small fairy-like plant-people. Their primal is Ramuh. They and Gridania have a peace treaty but relations have soured and the hero is sent to help smooth things over. You have to learn about the customs of the Sylphs, win their trust and uncover that their leader is missing due to incursions of the Garlean Empire and you have to rescue the Sylph leader from the next dungeon, the Thousand Maws of Toto Rak. I like this questline a bit more than the previous. The Sylphs are cute and have an interesting way of talking. You win their favor by doing dance emotes all over their village. And the emotes in FF14 are really good. Its my favorite way of interacting with other players.

Daikaiju, I think i did toto rak the last time i played this game a few years ago. Was this revamp recent? I'm curious if i have ever seen a different version. So far, i've interacted with the game like its a single player game and everyone else in the world is just a "guest character" in my game since that's how it feels the main story treats the world.

Felix, I think the writing for FF14 is on the whole above average, if a bit wordy. I especially like the job quests so far. Every 5 levels, you unlock a quest related to your job. Unlike the main story, its a small, local story. Since you only do it every few levels, it feels like a nice break from the main story. I like the Rogue quests. Rogue gets the Hide ability and so the Rogue quests have you sneaking past guards and eavesdropping on conversations to get information.
 
I'm pretty sure the last time I played, it was when Endwalker was released. The time before that would have had the old dungeon but I remember almost nothing from that first time. I think I stopped around the mid 20s, so i might not have even made it to this dungeon.

It was indeed very boring. I can't tell you anything about the boss. My party killed it while I was in the cutscene.

From a story perspective, we free the leader of the Sylphs and they re-affirm their treaty. We learn that each Primal has its own personality and tempered individuals take on the aspect of their primal. Ramuh is protective, not aggressive, so as long as we stay out of the Sylph homelands, they will leave us alone. We learn that it has been the Empire stirring up this trouble to try to force the Sylphs to summon Ramuh, but we've foiled their plot, so they are leaving.

Back at the Scion's base, our next goal is to find out more about the masked figure that has been hounding us, who's long-winded speech resulted in his spider dying before i even drew my weapons.
 
I swear 90% of quests in FF14, oddly enough, follow the format of: Talk to this person, then go over there and talk to that person... who may sometimes be the first person, and in a surprising number of cases they don't even move we just are locked into this accept/complete format and you have to talk twice.

I do prefer that to kill 12 rats, but it's odd.
This is the thing about FF14 that always kept me from getting into it, and why I'm always like 🤨 every time a fan swears up and down the story is amazing. Full disclosure I haven't played since ARR, so my frame of reference is very out of date. But I really doubt the core way the player interacts with the game has fundamentally changed all that much since games are games. If I'm going to play a game that throws endless levels of prose -- prose that the pov character barely even gets to interact with, so it's just people talking at you endlessly -- then I'd rather just cut out the cruft of dailies and killing 12 rats, and go play a visual novel. Or hell, just pick up a book. I am also however, the kind of person for whom play as a self-insert is intensely uninteresting, and I'd rather play as a fully formed character with their own agency.
 
FF14 is good, and it can be quite good, but amazing, best FF ever, and other things you hear from the well-initiated? Pure hyperbole. Maximum puffery. But that's also fine, for the most part. Ethusiasm isn't (generally) a bad thing.

ARR is rough and Heavensward is overrated. (My apologies to Haurchefant.) The overall main story does pick up steam halfway through Heavensward and it stays pretty good up to and including Shadowbringers, which is clearly the apex of their storytelling re: FF14. (I also quite liked Endwalker, fuck the haters.) It's the amount of time it takes before FF14 "gets good"-- it's a bit of a slog. But at least that content is free now, and hey, have you have heard of the critically-acclaimed, etc. etc.
 
Next stop in the story is Little Ala Mhigo. Its a refugee camp. The home country was conquered by the Garleans. Nothing important happens plot wise, its just world building.

The game is handing out enough EXP that I've been able to with minimal extra effort, get 3 jobs to level 27. I've tried out Archer, Marauder, and Rogue. Last time, i played as a Pugilist. Overall, the jobs so far are like little tweaks on the same template (though i'm guessing that may diverge more once the basic abilities are unlocked). My guess is this is a lot easier to keep balanced compared to FF11, where some jobs just sucked sometimes. I like Archer for being able to run around the arena and keep firing. I like Marauder for the big number auto-crits. I like Rogue for the job quests.
 
One of the big problems with FF14 is the way it handles class abilities. Everything is very much designed (and redesigned every few years) around you having 20 or so buttons to fiddle around with in different ways based on what you're playing, but Tradition dictates they unlock one by one. Pugilist/Monk is a great example. The whole idea is maintaining this constant 1 2 3 rhythm where you eventually have a strong single target/buff-or-debuff/multihit attack each for 1 2 and 3, then some special moves unlocked form keeping that going or willfully breaking it. But you start off with just 1a and 2a, and don't have the proper bread and butter rotation sets until like level 45 or something (with a real real awkward bit where you have just like, the middle hit of the AoE combo), and the whole pattern breaking thing to charge up evil kung fu energy for the mega-hit isn't until like level 70 or something.

... also while these days just doing the plot-mandatory quests gives you so much experience that even swapping classes around, you're going to be 10 or 20 levels above the minimum for what you're doing, every dungeon/boss has a maximum level and will restrict you to the ability set you had at that level, turning all your extra skills off (with a couple weird exceptions once you promote the starting classes into proper Jobs).

Aside from how it sucks going back to do the earliest stuff and suddenly just having two buttons, a few jobs get conceptual overhauls between expansions and it can be a bit confusing having your stuff go from working one way to another, where the latter is some weird hybrid compromise of how things worked 5 years ago and how it was most recently reworked).

For what it's worth out of the stuff available in the base game, what things eventually turn into is:
Gladiator- Just hold out your arms and spin hitting all the things, turn on your defense boost past like 10 things at once, boring 3 hit combo bosses and parry big attacks.
Marauder- Like Gladiator but even simpler, later you mash the big overhead swing button constantly and get ridiculous self-healing.
Lancer- Trade ever having a decent multitarget attack for lots of stabbing and sometimes jumping across the room.
Pugilist- See above about the mix and match combos.
Archer- Spam multihit attacks while running and laugh, later you get party buffs and a shockingly complicated means of playing in-game music freestyle.
Thaumaturge- Gonna stand RIGHT HERE and cast spells with MP constantly bouncing.
Conjurer- Gonna cast one damage spell, 1 damage over time, and heal, until getting holy, then spam that for days.
Rogue- Gonna Naruto run and stab things fast then later get input combo spells for various things.
Arcanist- Gonna unlock 2 different jobs that share experience for weird legacy code reasons, one of which throws exploding pikachus at things that later digivolve into baby versions of The Summons You Know then loop around and do it again, the other of which is a healer that can also summon a fairy to do a lot of healing for you and you pretend to be a blaster.
 
So, my computer was knocked out for a few days. In that time, I, bereft of anything to do, ended up watching an LP of FF3.

While the game does have its fair share of mechanical issues, it did a good job of reminding me just how endearingly childish the game is. Almost every story beat feels comical in how hamfisted or ridiculous it is, and the sheer quantity of ham and the childishly exuberant delivery make them stick hard. Frankly, I think the game is underrated, it's one of the greatest comedies of all time lol.
 
Afaik, people who have played it like it often a lot. At least the nes original. I think it's also one of the most beloved games of the franchise. People at least here who have played it, including me, seem to like it a lot.

So this seems less a case of the game being underrated, and more of how many people never played it, due to it only coming as a port with questionable decisions way too late. Had the nes game come here, I assume it would be pretty popular. And people might not compare its job system to the ones from later games, taking it for what it was.
 
I know the DS remake is not very well liked because it apparently made some weird design choices that didn't vibe with fans of the original, but what about the Pixel Remaster? Does it have any flaws pulling its charm down?
 
I bought the DS remake when it came out and maybe played an hour or two of it. Didn't care for it, never touched it again. The PR version I've played through twice and it's easily in my top 5 of the franchise. Great game whose relatively simple job system I prefer to all of the others. Sorry, FF5.
 
I think my main problem with 3 is the graphics. I just don't like DS 3D much. Especially when compared to the beautiful sprites in the nes game. Might be shallow, but it's how it is.
Haven't played the PR version, but it seems way closer to the nes version.
 
The only problems I had with 3 PR are the same as I have with the rest of them: Colors seem a bit washed out and that shine effect on the oceans just looks wrong.

The only real changes it makes from the famicom version mechanically are unlimited inventory space, dropping that weird point system that kept you from changing jobs too frequently, not killing you when you step on the wrong world map tile, and probably the same light math changes the other famicom ones get to balance the curve of how much money you have at any point a bit more evenly. Would recommend it.
 
All three main version of III are at least fine, though I would play the Famicom original before the rest. For the remakes, I'm more appreciative of the wild swings the DS game took to rehaul the game, whether one thinks the changes landed or not; the Pixel Remaster by comparison straddles superficial authenticity while actually doing as great alterations under the hood that result in a very distinct play experience--in my experience, a somewhat oddly balanced one with less regular friction, but newly arduous difficulty spikes in unexpected contexts. Emulation has always allowed this to be the case, but it bears mentioning that the Pixel Remaster is the only version of the game with a native quicksave feature whose availability sits very at odds with a game whose core design language emphasized resource management and dungeon exploration through attrition. It's "easier" to make it through locations like the Crystal Tower this way, but devoid of tension in a sustained manner, and the developers compensate for it by making the individual challenges rougher with the knowledge that players can load a state right next to the problem spots. This is sort of the takeaway with all the Pixel Remasters: a too-unified mode of presentation baseline mixed with game balance that naively attempts to accommodate "modern expectations" in spite of the material existing and supporting design language with entirely different aims and strengths.

I do love just looking at the DS remake. Matrix in my estimation were one of the most enthusiastic explorers of 3D visuals on the platform, and the arc of their experiments with the form is a pleasure to follow. The unique circumstances around III on DS should also be remembered, I think: it was the first Final Fantasy available on one of the most popular video game consoles ever, released before software piracy settled in on the platform for good, and was the only game in the series that had gone unreleased outside of Japan at that point. There was hunger for it, and many people ended up playing it, from contexts more diverse than series diehards or old RPG enthusiasts.
 
I bought FF4 during the Steam Sale. Is it as good as FF6?
No. Bottom tier FF unless you're nostalgic for it, imo. Good music, but I'd recommend any 2D FF over it besides maybe II, as much as I like that weird SaGa-assed game.

I like all the versions of III, though, yeah, the Famicom version is the best, sadly. Pixel Remaster is a good version, and I'd recommend it over DS just because of how dang slow that version is, though I agree with Peklo overall otherwise.
 
Crazy, that I read such a harsh critique against FF IV on TT. Not that I necessarily disagree, I'm just surprised, considering how much it is beloved here.

It's one of the FFs that I like the least (I do love them all), so I kinda agree. It is fun, and does interesting things regarding having mechanics and story reinforce and reflect each other. It has cool characters, but also some I don't care much for. And while the main character has a nice arc for the first third or so, it then becomes more and more of a dungeon crawler, with less story inbetween. It also doesn't give you any choice in how you develope your party. I mention that, because it's so rare for that to be the case in an FF. But that doesn't have to be a bad thing.

You definitely can enjoy it without nostalgia. As with all FFs, it depends a bit on what you want. But, imo, for most things you will find another FF that does it better. I guess due to it's simple character development, it is a good one for new players. It does have some teeth, though, more than the later games, like VI.

Still, I do think it's a fun game. As all FFs are, you can't go really wrong.
 
considering how much it is beloved here.
That's why I think it's nostalgia in most cases. I'm sure there are arguments to be made for its quality - I expect angry FF4 fans to come and yell at me any time now lol - but I really don't care for it. The story is ridiculous, the character building is nonexistent, and the dungeon and battle mechanics are simplistic compared to other games in the series (possibly excluding FF1, I suppose). Again, it has pretty good music, but otherwise I'd play just about anything else in the series.
 
I like both versions I've played of FFIII myself. The NES game is a top-tier entrant there, and the DS version hewed closed enough to it that a second run was very enjoyable. I do find it wild that they still make you go all the way through the very long last area without a save, though. 😅
 
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