I'm playing through all of Final Fantasy, and everyone is invited (Playing Lightning Returns now)

[nosimpleway]

Exdeath being molasses-slow in his fight at the end of world 2 is reflected in his appearances in Dissidia, where he moves and fights... well, like he's still a tree, really. He's got a short-range teleport that tends to get spammed a lot because it's a ton faster than walking. He's also a defensive/counter kind of fighter, which is weird, because turtling is more Ghido's style.

Though speaking of Dissidia it's kind of neat watching Exdeath and Cloud of Darkness bounce off of one another, since they both have boners for THE POWER OF THE VOID. Both of them have EX bursts where they harness THE POWER OF THE VOID and CoD has to bring a meter up to 120% to do maximum damage -- for CoD the Void is ultimate power. Exdeath also has a meter to button-mash, but he drops it down to 0%. For Exdeath the Void is absolute nothingness. It's a nice touch.

During one of the 4JF I fought that Exdeath at the end of world 2 and... had some trouble. Lenna was a zerberker and Bartz a... red mage? I forget what Krile and Faris were because they got Vacuum Waved to death and Bartz got zombied, so there was nothing I could do to revive them. So Bartz was going nutshit on Lenna and Lenna was zerberking at Exdeath. But I foresaw some difficulty with this fight and gave Bartz the Healing Staff, so while his zombie AI was set to "bonk Lenna at every opportunity" it just brought her HP back up from whatever Exdeath had just done to her. (Bartz himself, being a zombie, was stuck at 0 HP and functionally invincible). It was a long battle where I basically got to put the controller down and watch, but I won eventually. Fights in Final Fantasy games don't often go that wrong and still end up in your favor.

The Gargoyles are odd in that they're exactly the same every time you fight them. Outside the Pyramid they're a major pain but by the time you get to the Deepsea Trench or Istory Falls they're barely speedbumps.

The Pyramid is still the worst.

I usually call the monster that possesses Lenna Mousseline but if it was previously translated as Meringue that makes the joke better imo

If you hit the wrong Stalker/Wendigo in the shrine does a counter. It's the Sandworm fight again, only there's no visual indication which target is the correct one. (The trick is that his counter is Ice-elemental, Flame Rings trivialize it and let you blast all the targets to win.)

The trick to Omniscient is that his MP is finite, if you're patient enough. And all his spells are reflectable. And he's vulnerable to Silence Sword. Silence Sword is a physical attack, so he'll try to cast Reset to start the battle over... but he can't. He's silenced.
A combination of Monk's Counter and the Knight's Guard can trivialize Minotaur. You miss the bit where he tries to cast Holy, though, since it's a death counter and you killed him with a counter and you can't counter a counter.

Syldra + Magus Rod works fine, but since there's only one Magus Rod if you want more than one you can buy some Air Knives from Istory and use those. Air Knife boosts wind, Syldra is wind, it works great. (Magus Rod also boosts Leviathan though so it's superior in the few instances that boosted Syldra doesn't work, like if the enemy absorbs Wind.)

The Deepsea Trench bosses have a neat exploit. The Magic Lamp version of the Odin summon is bugged and doesn't determine immunity quite right. Regular !Summon Odin just throws his lance since they're immune to Zantetsuken. Magic Lamp Odin can Zantetsuken them to death in one hit. I found this out by accident in another 4JF. You can also use the bug to instakill the backmost part of Neo Exdeath. You know, the part with the most HP that likes to cast Meteor a lot. (idk if this works in not-GBA versions. Presumably if it worked before they'd have fixed it for the Advance rerelease so probably not.)

The Chicken Knife can force you to run away from fights if you use it to attack, but it's coded as an activation of the Thief's !Flee. But you can only use one kicker ability with an attack, so if you use it with a different skill, like !Mug or !Aim or yes, !Dance, you get the attack power for free. (If you max out your strength and agility with !Sing and manage to land a Sword Dance with the Chicken Knife it's possible to run into a damage overflow bug. Chicken Knife can be the strongest weapon in the game. And it's Spellblade-able!)

You can say "Yes" to cutting out Hiryuu's tongue in the flashback, but the king comes out and stops Lenna. Apparently her heart wasn't in it anyway.

The trick to Odin is Break Sword; 60% of the time it works every time. Calofisteri is basically Magissa all over again; Reflect Rings and Silence Sword can both trivialize her. I think Iron Giants can be killed with Dark Shock and L5 Death. It's something like that. They're weak to water, too.

Catastrophe's exploitable gimmick is that if anyone is Floating, he'll prioritize bringing them to the ground with 50 Gs so he can hit them with Earth Shaker next turn. So if you keep casting Float, he'll never attack, just un-Float people.

Apocalypse is Azulmagia in the GBA rerelease, so if you speak Spanish you know his schtick right off the bat. As described above he can learn Blue Magic that your party hits him with, and will counter by using the same spell as soon as he learns a new one. He won't use Moon Flute or Transfusion but you can swap any other spell with him. Including Explode. No, it never gets old.

I think King Behemoths can be minied. Or toaded. One of the transformation spells works, eventually.

Hiding the game's Even Worse Optional Superboss in an unmarked chest in the final map of the game with the last save point being the one Azulmagia was sitting on is the jerk move to end all jerk moves. Hey, the last chest that looked like this had an Elixir in it, let's see what's in thi-- OH GOD DRAGON BOSS IT USED TIDAL WAVE FOR LIKE 8000 DAMAGE TO EVERYONE WHOOPS YOU LOSE TOO BAD BRING SOME CORAL RINGS BEFORE YOU GO OPENING CHESTS NEXT TIME LOSER

Gilgamesh basically never talked to Krile. I figure all he knows about her is that she's Galuf's granddaughter, so that's all he can say to her. "Well bye, person I never met, but hey, I knew your granddad and he was a pretty cool guy." In the GBA translation he tells Lenna to never lose her compassion, does that come out worse in the other translations? I've got no defense for how he talks to Faris or basically shrugs off the girls in favor of treating Bartz as his personal buddy.

Maybe even add a "preferred target" programming flag in battle to underline whoever he deems a nemesis; this is a feature that already exists in the game in other contexts.

Contexts that are also indefensibly shitty!

Regarding Bartz as not having a love interest: Once we get to Mobliz I have opinions you guys.

 

[Peklo]

Contexts that are also indefensibly shitty!

Which I criticized specifically when it came up. The point is to use concepts that are already there toward a better purpose.

 

[FelixSH]

Let's first talk about our main five characters. Beware, there will probably be cliches in here, considering that they are represented by an element, which lends itself to reading standard stuff into them.

Bartz

Bartz represents the Wind and pursuit. He starts the game free, roaming the lands without any specific goal in mind. This makes him seem very generic, but only if you don't dive deeper. He saw his mother and (I think) father die, a father who he clearly admired, and who he followed as an adventurer.

One can easily draw a line here – the trauma of losing his parents made him rest- and homeless. The only family he has left, is his best friend, the chocobo Boko. Who fits right into Bartz theme, as riding him makes one free from random encounters and lets you explore the lands.

What is Bartz in pursuit of? Maybe even without him knowing it, a family. Which is what he finds in Lenna, Faris, Galuf and Kryle, as the game carries on. Fittingly, Boko also finds a family for himself. But he is also a driven person, and does his jobs well and with focus. He is a great leader for the group, always the one who says “Let's go!”It is interesting then, that specifically Bartz is scared of flying, and is a bit defined by it. But even here, he grows and can deal with his past trauma, made possible through his friends.

Lenna

Lenna represents Water and kindness. Which is made clear very soon – she cares deeply for others, specifically for her Hiryuu, which we learn when she walks through poisonous grass, just so she can heal her friend.

Like Bartz, she reads like the standard princess character, if you don't look a bit deeper, and don't go out of your way to see the flashbacks of her and Faris. The most interesting, to me, is the last one, where we learn about how she could have saved her mother, had she killed an animal in her care. It reads quite intense, when you play through it, having her even wielding a knife near the Hiryuu. This is also were her kindness shines brightly, as she doesn't sacrifice someone, even if that means losing an important personShe is also very competent, which we see when she meets up with other people of royalty, and she is very connected to other people. This is especially true for Faris, whom she soon realizes to be her sister, but doesn't pressure into accepting the truth. No, she lets it rest, until Faris is far enough to bring the point up on her own.

Lenna is a very adult person, but she is made more interesting by giving her true insight into others, and humanity, instead of giving her someone to fight with, from the party.

Faris

Faris represents Fire and Courage. We see this multiple times, partly at the beginning, when we learn that she is a pirate captain. I mean, we don't see her doing anything dangerous, but she is leading a bunch of dangerous men, in a leading role of stealing from others. Not saying that this is a great thing to do, but it certainly makes a courageous personality necessary.

We see her struggling with this, in the flashback where we see her looking forward to fly the Hiryuu with her father, and later seeing her being too scared to do so. We also learn, that she saved a young Syldra, who she formed an important bond with.

Important, too, is that she disregards gender norms, and is mainly Faris. The game clearly has a some troubling scenes, with regards to that, but it's mainly about Bartz and Galuf being confused, but supportive as soon as they learn the truth. The problem here lies with the game, and how it treats Faris' identity as a twist, and not with the characters.

Galuf

Galuf represents Earth and Hope. Which the game shows clearly, in that a big part of his motivation lies in his love for Kryle, and the hope he has for her. As a warrior from the last generation, he is also grounded in knowledge (well, after he remembers everything). Unlike his allies, he doesn't have anything to overcome, except for his amnesia, which is of course a different thing

Peklo already wrote a lot of good stuff about the essential scene, where he sacrifices himself for Kryle, the rest of the party, and therefore for the whole world. Hope keeps him alive during that one fight, a power that is clearly shown to be stronger than force and emptiness could ever be. And he never really dies – his strength is given to Kryle, and his spirit lives on. Because this is a world, where good deeds are rewarded.

Kryle

Like Galuf, she represents Earth and Hope. I still think that she is a bit lacking in characterization here, as the game mainly treats her as the result of Galufs hope and affection. There isn't really any kind of character arc or grows here, or at least nothing I had seen. Granted, Galuf is essentially always with her, even after he died, so that should help in some ways against the pain of losing him. But in the end, and that is probably partly because she joins so late, she seems to have drawn the short stick, when it comes to character defining points.

I feel like I haven't gotten everything out here, and I'm not sure if it's just a bad day. But these are my thoughts on our heroes. I definitely do enjoy them a lot. I also think that this game feels, particularly when it comes to the main party, as a direct predecessor to FF IX. I'll take a look when I get there, but for now, these two games seem very related to me.

I would have included a paragraph about Exdeath, but, aside from the fact that I love him, not much came to mind. So, please accept that I love him very, very much.

Themes

Two of the main themes of FF V are Hope and Family.

There is always hope in these games, be it Bartz, who will never give up, Galuf, when he sacrifices himself and channels all his hope and believe, or Faris, when she jumps after Syldra. No one is ever truly lost, as long as people and friends are remembered. I really like this part of the game, that this idea is taken literally, and you can, if you just have the strength and knowledge, summon your old friends to your help, even if their body isn't working anymore. That you are always loved by these people, and that you can always draw strength from them.

This is also connected to the Warriors of Dawn, who die, but essentially only die so that we can live, and can bring the great struggle to a close. They sacrifice themselves for us, because they believe in the new generation.

There is also the theme of Family. Not the family that you are related to, but the family that you create yourself. Our heroes start out as strangers, but they find love in each other – enough that they can overcome a big evil, and find each other again, even if someone dies. Boko, Syldra and Lennas Hiryuu are all part of the family too, and never really leave your side. We see this especially with Syldra, who Faris clearly never forgets, and whos spirit was probably strongest where she spent most of her time.

Strongly connected to Family as a theme, is the theme of “Be whoever you are”. The job system stands for being able to choose your destiny. You can do anything, if you just work for it. No matter your gender or your age, you can become powerful. It doesn't matter, we still love and support you. Sure, you can become a walking death machine, but you can also become someone who tames monsters, supports by playing music, or help each other not being hurt by lava. You don't have to be super sturdy. Just be here. No matter what path you choose, you are an important and essential part of our family, and how you present yourself is your choice alone.

The World:

I'm always fascinated, by how this world works. The two single worlds feel like regular JRPG worlds – especially the first one has a lot of stuff in it. But when they are merged, they offer such a big amount of places, it's pretty great. My favourite bit is probably, that the cave with the Skull Eaters has lead, at one point, into one of the castles – which is true again, when the worlds are merged.

What makes this world so fascinating to me, though, is that it feels so lived-in, with so many legends and, comparatively much, History, which you learn bit by bit. There is the battle from 1000 years ago, where 12 powerful warriors had their own battle, to save the world, and where they left a problem for a later generation. It was a bad, but probably still the best solution – a whole town was sacrificed, to save the world. Also, many of the professions already did exist.

Sure, you have the standard damage dealers. The Excalibur, the Masamune, the Rune Axe, the Holy Lance and Sasukes Katana were the weapons of straight-up heavy hitters. And you had a powerful White and Black Mage in the group too. But you also had a powerful Bow user (Yoichi) and an assassin in there, plus a bunch of supporters. Even in this group, you had a Geomancer and a Beastmaster. Plus, of course, a Bard. It's a very diverse group, and would be interesting for it's own game. I like to imagine that this is vaguely connected to FF I (I know, it makes no real sense, but as sort of the spiritual predecessor). Consider, even if there are 12 and not 4 warriors, they are nameless. Only their weapons have names, similar to how some of the most powerful weapons of FF I have striking names too.

But that is not all. 300 years ago, Guido had to seal Exdeath away, as another great catastrophe was nearly happening. Or something like that, I'm not quite sure.

And finally, 30 (?) years ago, the Warriors of Dawn appeared and sealed Exdeath away. Considering we are talking about someone who wanted to use the Void, I feel these four (also, they are four) represent in some way the Heroes of Light from FF III. Especially considering that we talk about an evil sorcerer who wanted to use the power of the Void. Again, more a spiritual successor thing than anything else, I'm not suggesting that the games are actually linked.

The Jobs

I can only talk about the jobs I tried for myself now, but I think everyone knows that Samurai, Mystic Knight, Ninja and White Mage are super useful classes. I mainly wanted to find out if the other classes are working out, too. And, spoiler, they do. The game is generally easy, and the bosses often have either a weakness, or can be easily defeated, simply because you have four characters. For this reason, I'd be interested in trying a Solo challenge at some point. With four characters, it seems like you miss out on the nuances of boss mechanics. We'll see, I certainly will replay this game and try different mechanical ways.

Summoner

My main powerhouse, I'm sure everyone knows how amazing they are. Super strong attack summons, and great defenses, with Golem and Carbuncle. I do find it interesting, how they can essentially channel spirits to help them, considering that Syldra and Hiryuu are dead at the end. So, is that what they do? Are Ifrit and Shiva also dead? Can Ramuh switch between being a Spirit and having a physical body?

Beastmaster

This is a fine class on its own, but as Lenna became stronger as a summoner, I used it less and less. Still, you can catch some quite useful monsters for one big shot, and also control a lot of them in random encounters. It is probably not good on its own, because with bosses, you can mainly use the caught monster and than only have a whip (which are actually fine weapons, even if not super strong). But it's quite useful, having someone who can control monsters, and with the Coronet, controlling works really well. As a helper for the Blue Mage, they are, of course, great.

Dancer

A fine class, but I feel like I was very unlucky with Dance. So few Sword Dances, so much everything else. Which isn't as bad as it sounds, as confusion is very useful for single, strong random encounters. And as a secondary job for a mage, they aren't bad either – you can cast until you are out of MP, and then dance. Getting HP back is nice, and getting MP back gives you more spells to cast. If you enjoy a bit of randomness, they are a fun class, and being able to wear a ribbon is always nice. And, if you finally get the right equipment, they can get a lot of Sword Dances, which, combined with a powered-up chicken knife, completely destroys bosses.

Blue Mage

This is a very fun class, with a lot of useful stuff, even though I focused on a handful of spells. The Aero spells are super useful, and Aero 3 is an excellent attack spell, that I used if I had nothing else to do but wanted to do some damage. There are all these situational spells, like Frog Song or Missile, which don't work often, but do sometimes on bosses, which often trivializes them. White Wind is, of course, great (just heal the Blue Mage fully, and than let him heal the rest), and the level spells, together with the one spell that halves levels, is really potent. Especially Level 2 Old can be used very, very often that way.

Thief

Yeah, that one wasn't that great. I mean, it's not a bad class, within a team of four you can still do some damage, but there just aren't many interesting things to steal. Still, never being surprised is just so great, and being able to run is a nice bonus, plus you can equip the ability to always flee, which can help a ton in dangerous places. Looking at it as a supporter class, maybe in combination with a Bard (or in my case, a Chemist) works pretty well.

Chemist

I know, it could be super powerful, but I can't really use this class. The combinations aren't as interesting and diverse as the Blue Magic spells – most stuff is just there for healing. That was the main use of the Chemist for me, he is a very competent healer, being able to revive people at full HP is great. And just in general, using potions with two times the normal healing power is very useful. But I never wanted to use Dragon Fangs and Turtle Shells, because I didn't want to farm them, and in boss battles, I didn't want to spend so much time buffing everyone up. I did sometimes, but in general it seemed like too much work. So, for me, the Chemist was just a useful healer, but, due to my own hang-ups, I can't really get all out of him there is.

Geomancer

A somewhat frustrating class, but they always have at least one strong option to randomly select (at least for the first 90% of the game), and elsewise, they someone else would do the main work. In battle, a Blue Mage and a Summoner was more than enough in most cases, anyway. But it's a fun class – not the strongest, but strong enough. Not good for optimizers, but, as I said, the game isn't that hard. It is nice to be save from damaging floors, though.

Bard

I probably don't need to talk about how great the Bard is. In most random encounters, you can just charm/stun most enemies, and never get attacked, it's pretty great. And in boss battles, you just give everyone Regen, and then either increase their speed or, later on, their level, so that Regen heals more and more, and just everything gets stronger and stronger. It's an amazing supporting class.

In general, I really like the job system here, and it's great how flexible everything is. That said, there is one more slot missing, and I think FFT (which I never played very long) did this better, with different slots. Mainly, I'm thinking about the “equip x” skills, which I can't imagine anyone would ever use. Or maybe you could use “equip Ribbon” or something in boss battles? Dunno, I feel at least they should have a specific slot.

Final Words:

As I already mentioned, this feels like the end of an era for Final Fantasy. It is the last game (except for IX) that still plays in a more-or-less regular Fantasy world. With VI, we will change to a steampunk setting, and we will also move away from the Crystals.

FF II generally feels a bit like an outlier, as it already did this a bit. IIs world doesn't really feel that much like Fantasy, and it doesn't have the Crystals and their influence and importance for the world.

But even FF IV did change the interpretation of the Crystals, away from them as the important forces that keep the planet alive, to them being mainly powerful technology.

Still, it feels fitting that this is the game where the Crystals are shattered. Sure, they rebuild themselves at the end, but it still feels like that games themselves say “This is it. Change is coming.” That's also why I think that my interpretation of FF I and III as spiritual predecessors isn't completely off. I feel like this came connected itself to these two games, intentionally, partly because it tells a variation of that story (or it used FF I and III as outlines for the story, at least).

I'm very much looking forward to playing FF VI now, but will take a break, as always. Well, I'll try. I will also definitely replay FF V a few times, and try out different jobs combinations, because I do find it interesting on all fronts: Mechanics, Story, Characters and World Building.

 

[Destil]

Magus Rod only boosts Fire / Ice / Lightning, you want Syldra + Air Knife. Megaflare can’t be boosted, the only way to boost water is the Elemental Power !Mix (Holy Water + Eyedrop). Though a boosted Holy is also great, and Meteor ignores stats so it can win on some builds, too.

Galuf’s world Exdeath can be a very rough fight for challenge runs, given the number of strong tools like Chicken Knife and Running Shoes gated by it. Also one of the few places the game’s design annoys me, in that Reflect Rings can be farmed first, but only in Barrier Tower so I always feel compelled to waste a ton of time getting 4 them for this fight. Believe me, Exdeath does not seem slow if your best offense is breaking flame rods with a red mage. Though if you can use them judgement staves can be farmed, and Exdeath is weak to holy, but that’s much worse than the reflect rings.

The other major way is absolutely gating the Sub. Wind Shrine is a dungeon I would never ever ever do if it weren’t required but mostly it’s Fork, as many challenge runs are forced to break rules there. There is usualy a way past Omnicient, but sometimes it’s too tedious to be worth it (Bone Mail + Reflect Ring and he can not kill you, but it takes hours and hours and hours to run out his MP).

 

[FelixSH]

Sure, if you are doing a challenge run, especially a Solo one, everything changes, with regards to difficulty. I have read all, or most of, Sullas Solo reports, and I know how much of a roadblock Exdeath can be in World 2. That's why I was so surprised how easy he was for me. I mean, I didn't expect that high of a challenge, but I remember him from my own, former playthroughs as a pretty strong boss. It was just over so fast, I was surprised.

 

[conchobhar]

Congrats on the finish, Felix! I've been quiet this time around because I'm so far behind, but as always I've enjoyed reading everyone else's posts and impressions as I play along. So I haven't quite caught up with all the posts yet.

Me, I'm still plugging away, though I've been making good progress— last night I made it to the merged world— and I'll surely finish within the week. That said, if you're ready to move onto VI, don't feel like you have to wait up for me!

In general, I really like the job system here, and it's great how flexible everything is. That said, there is one more slot missing, and I think FFT (which I never played very long) did this better, with different slots. Mainly, I'm thinking about the “equip x” skills, which I can't imagine anyone would ever use.

Barehanded can be useful for mages, because it grants them a pretty decent physical attack without requiring any investment (ie: you don't need to spend the money on getting them a weapon). But that's about the only use-case I can imagine, and by the mid-game, a player has surely acquired multiple better choices. I agree it would have really opened things up if !Equip were a separate slot entirely.

 

[FelixSH]

Nice, I was wondering how you have been, but didn't want to ask. In case you have other things on your mind, at the moment.

Take your time, I want to take a bit of a break anyway. I hope you will talk a bit about your journey, when you are done. Specifically, which jobs your party has, if they worked out and bosses that were especially challenging/interesting. Only if you feel like writing about it, of course.

 

[Destil]

I don’t think FFV needs the full on 5 slots of FFT but I do think being able to reassign your left, job locked command to any command from your job would help a lot. Super annoying to have to bring !Steal on a thief when you have !Mug already equipped.

The things I’d change in FFV given the choice are super minor, it’s almost a perfect game mechanically.

• Reassign left ability from your current job.
• Combine all monk HP passives into one, let them equip kaiser knuckles as a weapon rather than an accessory, make !Kick learnable and ignore back row.
• Give Geomancer another level for Equip Bell, make the Gaia Bell increase their level by 50 for !Gaia and boost all elements.
• Give the Red Mage level 4 magic.
• Let the berserker equip a passive ability on both left and right slots, from any job and fix Berserk ATB bug.
• Let you unlock the Sub as soon as you get Lenna back.
• Keep stuff from being locked out for plot reasons. Ring shop in world 2, as well as a place to farm reflect rings and death sickles. Maybe ads a Gil Turtle in World 3.

 

[conchobhar]

Still working away at it, and I've still got a fair amount to go (just finished Fork Tower last night), but I'm already kind of blown away by how good the merged world is. Like, I've already been quite enjoying the game, but this really feels like a huge leap in quality compared to the earlier portions.

Peklo already talked about how the merger recontextualizes much of the geography (personal standout: how the Big Bridge becomes a link to the isolated island shrine), and Felix about how the game's structure opens up and gives the player more freedom in what to do next, and I agree with both… but what really strikes me is more nuts-and-bolts aspects of the writing and design. Storywise, it's got memorable character moments in practically every scene— Bartz and Krile ditching the Tycoon party and paling around a bit, Faris toying with Bartz when he's trapped in a pit, Bartz' flying the airship in a rage, Krile and Mid's little chat— and regular appearances from Exdeath, which better establish his threat but are also just a joy to watch, as he steals every scene he's in. Designwise, the merged world has a whole host of interesting and creative dungeons that far outshine what's come before; up to this point, I would say that V's dungeons have been fine but nothing to write home about, but all three I've finished in the merged world do something to shake it up. The Pyramid is filled with traps and puzzles to contend with, the Island Shrine is mostly straightforward but does have the air vent to muss with at the start, and of course the Fork Tower splits the party in twain and forces purely physical or magical strategies.

There is just a lot going on here, in a good way: I think RPGs often start to drag in their endgame sections, but Final Fantasy V got a second wind.

 

[Mogri]

There is just a lot going on here, in a good way: I think RPGs often start to drag in their endgame sections, but Final Fantasy V got a second wind.

True, but on the other hand, you have FF6, which doesn't even start until halfway through.

 

[FelixSH]

Still working away at it, and I've still got a fair amount to go (just finished Fork Tower last night), but I'm already kind of blown away by how good the merged world is. Like, I've already been quite enjoying the game, but this really feels like a huge leap in quality compared to the earlier portions.

Peklo already talked about how the merger recontextualizes much of the geography (personal standout: how the Big Bridge becomes a link to the isolated island shrine), and Felix about how the game's structure opens up and gives the player more freedom in what to do next, and I agree with both… but what really strikes me is more nuts-and-bolts aspects of the writing and design. Storywise, it's got memorable character moments in practically every scene— Bartz and Krile ditching the Tycoon party and paling around a bit, Faris toying with Bartz when he's trapped in a pit, Bartz' flying the airship in a rage, Krile and Mid's little chat; and regular appearances from Exdeath, which better establish his threat but are also just a joy to watch, as he steals every scene he's in. Designwise, the merged world has a whole host of interesting and creative dungeons that far outshine what's come before; up to this point, I would say that V's dungeons have been fine but nothing to write home about, but all three I've finished in the merged world do something to shake it up. The Pyramid is filled with traps and puzzles to contend with, the Island Shrine is mostly straightforward but does have the air vent to muss with at the start, and of course the Fork Tower splits the party in twain and forces purely physical or magical strategies.

There is just a lot going on here, in a good way: I think RPGs often start to drag in their endgame sections, but Final Fantasy V got a second wind.

Yeah, agreed, it's a very strong final part, and it makes really clear how we get from this to the WoR in FF VI. Also, there are fewer scenes, but what we get is pretty great. The part where Faris saves Bartz and Kryle is one of my favourite funby scene in the game.

True, but on the other hand, you have FF6, which doesn't even start until halfway through.

The structure of FF V and VI are basically the same, roughly - you have a pretty linear first part and a non-linear second part. And especially in VI, the first part is essential in creating context for the second part. You need to see how the world looks before the catastrophe, to understand the intensity of Kefkas doings. And you need to spend time with the characters, so you have a reason to get them back. I find that context absolutely essential. And that's just from rough memory, I'm alreday very much looking forward to reexperiencing that game, story and mechanics alike.

 

[Torzelbaum]

The things I’d change in FFV given the choice are super minor, it’s almost a perfect game mechanically.

It probably isn't a major change but I do think it would be neat if spellblade worked with more spells.

 

[conchobhar]

So! Final Fantasy V.

Unlike Final Fantasys III and IV, I had no big reason to play this one— I'd already played it and I already liked it. My motivation much simpler, that this thread gave me the opportunity (or perhaps excuse?) to revisit an old favourite. Sure, I hadn't played it in a while, but I didn't have any reason to doubt my memory of it. As such, I went into this playthrough very casually, expecting nothing more than to have a good time and re-affirm that, yep, this is a pretty good game. That did indeed happen, but to my surprise, I came away with a much stronger opinion of it than before.

First things first: I hadn't realized just how flexible the job system is. I know this won't come as news to anyone, given how challenge or restricted runs have become a key part of this game's reputation (and I see both Felix and Peklo undertook some restrictions)… but that's not my experience with the game. When I first played V, I played it fairly conservatively, preferring to use jobs I was already acquainted with and favoured, with nary a bold decision; so, in replaying it, I made an active effort to try out jobs I normally wouldn't (III also played a role in this). I still hedged my bets a little, but at various points I could count a Bard, Beastmaster, Blue Mage, Geomancer, Ranger and/or Summoner among my party, and I was surprised at how incredibly good they all were. Especially Blue Mages! Blue is a whole school of magic I've largely ignored in the series due to how awkward and cumbersome it is to learn, but it is devastatingly effective here; so many bosses fall victim to Death Claw or Level 5 Death, including some of the most annoying ones. But even without those exploits, it's fascinating how basically any combination of classes can make a formidable party, and it's fun to experiment with party compositions.

But the main thing is that writing is so much better than I remembered— or maybe even noticed in the first place. For staters, V has a very strong cast: all five of the party members have clearly-defined and distinct personalities, and bounce off each other well. While their characterization isn't particularly deep, neither are they caricatures, and they have enough depth and nuance to evoke true pathos. It's actually quite impressive how well the characters can transition between comedic and serious, and how any combination of characters can work for either mood; they really feel like a very close and tight-knit group of friends, moreso than most of the series' casts.

As far as individual characters go, I believe Bartz and Faris are the fan favourites (and it's easy to see why: he's a happy-go-lucky dumbass, she's a pirate who loves nautical phrases), but this time around I found myself most taken with Lenna. This even took me by surprise: I might have said before that Lenna was the weak link, since she doesn't have an outsized personality like the others do. In this replay, though, it became abundantly clear that Lenna is a real go-getter and perhaps the most 'traditionally heroic' of the cast, in the way it's her motivations and actions that kick off the story, it's her who is the steadfast and daring one, and it's her who has the most developed and meaningful backstory. What I like best, though, is that she has these heroic qualities while still being unabashedly sensitive and feminine, so she doesn't feel like some genderflipped-but-otherwise-archetypical "RPG Hero" so much as her own, more interesting, type.

Also, Exdeath is just the best goddamn villain this series has ever done. I already knew he was great, and I'm sure you all do too, but I have to gush anyway. He is simultaneously this over-the-top, moustache-twirling villain who delights in the sheer act of villainy, while also being an imposing and intimidating adversary who has no qualms about being petty and personal. And he achieves this seeming contradiction not by walking a fine line between the two, but by committing to both aspects extremely hard and just making it work. Exdeath is such a force unto himself that he steals every scene he's in. I love him so much.

I think it's a real shame that Final Fantasy V is seen primarily as a "mechanics" game, because it has so much more going for it. That's not a diss at people who do engage with the job system to that degree— it is clearly designed to allow for such an approach, and there's a lot to get out of it on a purely gameplay level— just registering a bit of disappointment that it doesn't get appreciated on this level very often. It definitely stands shoulder-to-shoulder with its SNES peers here.

 

[4-So]

Especially Blue Mages! Blue is a whole school of magic I've largely ignored in the series due to how awkward and cumbersome it is to learn, but it is devastatingly effective here; so many bosses fall victim to Death Claw or Level 5 Death, including some of the most annoying ones. But even without those exploits, it's fascinating how basically any combination of classes can make a formidable party, and it's fun to experiment with party compositions.

I fell in love with Blue Magic the first time it was introduced to me (Final Fantasy 6.) I don't particularly care for certain implementations of it - FF8, FF10, a few others - but conceptually and mechanically? Fantastic. I always rep the blue mages and I wish the mechanic played more prominently into the series.

 

[FelixSH]

Good Stuff

Thanks for the final report. I'm glad you enjoyed the game as much as I (and presumable Peklo) did, it's really a joy, and I feel like it is a bit of a high point in the series. It's such a nice marriage of mechanics and story, even if the latter is more light-hearted and less dramatic than the others. As pointed out, you get enough intense character scenes, especially if you look for them. It's just fun to spend time with these people, and join them in their laughter.

And Exdeath is the best. Such a pompous, beautiful bastard.

I feel like the job system is that robust, because you are somewhat overpowered with four characters. Just the fact that you can use items with everyone is a big deal, because items are (at least for healing) pretty great. And with four characters, you often have such a big amount of tools at your disposal, that it doesn't matter if only one or two of your guys does actual, good damage. It works out. And all classes add some stuff. I really feel like I need to try a solo challenge at some point.

I fell in love with Blue Magic the first time it was introduced to me (Final Fantasy 6.) I don't particularly care for certain implementations of it - FF8, FF10, a few others - but conceptually and mechanically? Fantastic. I always rep the blue mages and I wish the mechanic played more prominently into the series.

Which one? Strago or Gau? But yeah, I will use Blue Mages in the future, if they offer themselves (which mainly means FF VI and VII, I think, because their spells are pretty great and diverse. It's just plain fun, to have such a big toolkit at your desposal, even if they are a bit costly. But I think FF V has the best implementation of it, doesn't it? Strago doesn't have that many spells, if my memory is correct, and Gau can only use one set of spells per battle, or something like that? But yeah, I'm looking forward to trying them out, too.

----------------------------------------------------

I want to use this opportunity, to give a short shout-out to the return of the Moogles, which I completely forgot in my final post, which is a shame. I love them here, and they, like the Chocobos, are maybe at their best here (wait, no, FF IX has the best Moogles, but still). They have their little cultures and are super adorable. I absolutely loved the part, where they did the dance, so the Hiryuu would find them (even though I didn't really understand how that worked). I just love their simple, cute design, and their personalities.

I was really surprised, that they weren't in FF IV - I had thought that they would appear in every FF from III on out. I'm also really curious how it happened, that they first appeared in a game, than vanished, like they were a one-time thing, and then appeared so much stronger. I really need to look a bit more for interviews and information about the process of creating these games.

-----------------------------------------------------

Well, next up is FF VI. But I will take a bit of a longer break this time. Reason is, that I will not have time to play the game next week, at least not in the way I'd want to. So, I will start at the earliest in May. But I might need to wait until June, because I don't really know how May will work out either. It's a shame, but I want to give these games my full attention, and that will just not be possible for these weeks. So, might take a bit for this project to continue, but in June, I will definitely continue. We'll see. It's a bit of a shame, because I'm looking forward to replaying FF VI a lot. But it's fine, we'll get there.

 

[conchobhar]

I was really surprised, that they weren't in FF IV - I had thought that they would appear in every FF from III on out. I'm also really curious how it happened, that they first appeared in a game, than vanished, like they were a one-time thing, and then appeared so much stronger. I really need to look a bit more for interviews and information about the process of creating these games.

It's funny because IV does have its own cutesy critters, the Hummingways, so it's not as if there was no space for Moogles. I guess they just hadn't settled on the idea of Moogles as a series icon and mascot yet.

 

[Peklo]

Moogles are an invasive species that drove the beaver into extinction in FF world.

 

[Mogri]

Which one? Strago or Gau?

Gau is a Beastmaster, though

 

[4-So]

Strago has a fairly decent amount of Blue magic he can learn. I'm not sure if it's more or less than FF5 but it's not insubstantial.

Lore (Final Fantasy VI)

Lore is Strago's ability in Final Fantasy VI and the game's form of Blue Magic. When Strago views a compatible enemy ability, he permanently learns the ability and can then select it from the Lore menu, using it against opponents. The optional character Gogo may also use the Lore command, but is...

finalfantasy.fandom.com

 

[nosimpleway]

Strago is straight-up called a Blue Mage by one of the villagers in Thamasa. That's him. He's the blue mage.

A beastmaster is someone who summons animals to do their bidding, which in FF6 is part of Mog's skillset. Each dance has a 1/8 chance of summoning some kind of critter like a Tapir or Raccoon or Nightingale or something. He's a combination Dancer/Geomancer/Beastmaster, and also probably the party's best Dragoon.
(I guess Beastmasters are also the ones who use one-off monster abilities and can !Control, which is Relm's schtick.)

Gau has a needlessly obtuse and convoluted way of developing his skills, in using which he doesn't just use monster abilities, he turns himself into a nigh-perfect copy of that monster. Gau's job didn't show up in the series again until Final Fantasy Tactics Advance -- he's a Morpher.

 

[Torzelbaum]

if my memory is correct, and Gau can only use one set of spells per battle, or something like that?

Like a berserker Gau will continue using a selected rage for the rest of the battle. Unlike berserkers this will reset if GaI dies and is raised in battle after he starts raging.

Gau has a needlessly obtuse and convoluted way of developing his skills, in using which he doesn't just use monster abilities, he turns himself into a nigh-perfect copy of that monster. Gau's job didn't show up in the series again until Final Fantasy Tactics Advance -- he's a Morpher.

The job is less obtuse / convoluted in FFTA but still more of a pain in the ass to use there.

 

[FelixSH]

I was just joking. I mean, Gau always seemed to me like a variation on the Blue Mage, but I know that Strago is the classic BM.

Strago has a fairly decent amount of Blue magic he can learn. I'm not sure if it's more or less than FF5 but it's not insubstantial.

Lore (Final Fantasy VI)

Lore is Strago's ability in Final Fantasy VI and the game's form of Blue Magic. When Strago views a compatible enemy ability, he permanently learns the ability and can then select it from the Lore menu, using it against opponents. The optional character Gogo may also use the Lore command, but is...

finalfantasy.fandom.com

I really thought he had a relatively small selection. Nice! I'm looking forward to using him a bit more, this time.

 

[Vega]

Thanks for doing the playthrough, everyone! I first played most of these games in roughly the order they were released in North America. I've always wondered what it would've been like to experience them in Japanese release order, since the progression would be more incremental. I imagine it would've humanized the developers since no game in the series except maybe VII would've felt like a huge leap past the previous one.

On the recurring theme of the previous generation of heroes staring the business the current generation finishes: If they bring back Sakaguchi to make another one of these it'd be neat if the previous generation of heroes is voice acted by Alec Baldwin, Ving Rhames, Steve Buscemi and Perri Gilpin. They wouldn't have to say they're connected to Spirits Within because the voices would clue in knowledgeable players. It would make the game into a redemption arc for Sakaguchi himself.

 

[Peklo]

I'm pretty uncomfortable with the idea of framing actual people's lives in the language of fictional character arcs and narrative conventions.

It also doesn't seem particularly relevant to keep pining after a creator who's not been associated with the series for twenty years and whose career since has moved in other directions and by his own admission may be winding down. Sakaguchi's always been amiable to discussing his past works and has never struck me as desiring to be involved with FF beyond that capacity; the desire to reinstall him to his former position seems more motivated by fans who aren't willing to let go of the idea of the series as it existed in the past, and assume it could return to that form if an important creative figure such as him came back to it. I don't think such a sentiment takes into account very well the passing of time, changing priorities and approaches as creators, or the different corporate cultures and creative environments at the far ends of such a hypothetical scenario. It likely wouldn't manifest in the way these dream projects are thought or hoped to.

 

[Vega]

I wouldn't have had the game mention Sakaguchi by name, just drop a few hints, but I can see how people and time have moved on in a way that wouldn't enable this to work.

I'm mostly just bummed that nothing Sakaguchi worked on after FFIX was a commercial success.

 

[conchobhar]

Thanks for doing the playthrough, everyone! I first played most of these games in roughly the order they were released in North America. I've always wondered what it would've been like to experience them in Japanese release order, since the progression would be more incremental. I imagine it would've humanized the developers since no game in the series except maybe VII would've felt like a huge leap past the previous one.

I don't know about that… you can definitely see that steady progress in the games, where each is building off what came before, but I still felt like V was a pretty big jump from IV, owing to much grander presentation and production values. Looking ahead of where this thread is, I think VI is a similar jump from V, what with all the Mode 7 going on there.

I mean, obviously, none of these match the leaps that American audiences got from the sequence of I →‎ IV →‎ VI, but I think there's still plenty of progress being made in each game.

 

[FelixSH]

Oh, totally. There was a big progress from each game to its successor, starting from FF I to II. Playing these games in succession really shows how much new ideas there always existed for each new one. It really makes this project extremely interesting.

 

[FelixSH]

The Ancient War of the Magi...
When its flames at last receded, only
the charred husk of a world remained
Even the power of magic was lost...

In the thousand years that followed,
iron, gunpowder, and steam engines
took the place of magic, and life slowly
returned to the barren land...

Yet there now stands one who would
reawaken the magic of ages past,
and use ist dread power as a means
by which to conquer all the world...

...Could anyone truly
be foolish enough
to repeat that mistake?

FF VI is the first FF, that I played through. I think I tried IV and V before, but stopped playing them. I guess, they were too old-school, back than, and didn't look as good. It was 2001, and I had, through emulation, access to the prettiest SNES games, which might explain that.

FF VI, though, looked amazing. It's story felt more modern, I probably was a bit tired of classical fantasy and enjoyed the steampunk asthetics, and the game was just newbie friendly. I didn't use magic much, except in boss battles, because I didn't like to use finite ressources like MP or items. But this game gives you super-powerful stuff with infinite uses, like Edgars tools or Sabins blitzes.

I wasn't good at it, mind you. I only used the same four people all the time (probably Edgar and Sabin, likely Terra and Celes, but I can't say for sure). I still ran away from most random encounters, because I found them tiresome, and was therefore underleveled. The final dungeon was brutal, because I had only four characters leveled up. So I used the Moogle Charm, and switched it between the two weaker parties. It somehow worked out, but I never had any sort of killing machines, like most other people here. But than, I played this game in English, when I still wasn't too competent with that language. I probably had a vague idea what happened, but any nuance was lost.

This was, aside from Chrono Trigger, my favourite game for some time. And I played through it three times within two years (I had to catch up on most of the SNES library, so I couldn't just play this one). But than, I took a break, and only replayed it years later, in 2009, I think. Which was the last time, I ever played it.

While I would prefer the SNES version, due to the higher resolution, and to make sure that I get the original graphics, I will play the GBA version. According to Legend of Localizations, that translation is way more accurate than the SNES one. This isn't supposed to critizise that version, Ted Woolsey did a great job, considering the restraints he encountered.

---------------------------------------

We start on a snowy cliff, during the night. It's a shame that I had to take such a long break, the contrast to FF V would be even more striking, had I continued immediately. While V starts with a motivating song of adventure, with Bartz, riding on Boko through a lush field on a sunny day, here we are immediately thrust into a world, that is in danger of being completely taken over by an evil empire.

We are informed about bad things - a war that changed the world, where magic was lost. People who want to reaquire it, to conquer the world.

The graphics add even more to that. When we see Narshe, we also see a lot of steam and metal. And we have learned that, while magic has been lost, technology was developed.

Aside from that, the new (amazing) graphics give us also new, excellent spritework. I probably don't need to mention how great the main cast looks. They are exceedingly detailed. But also houses and mountains look more detailed, and it seems like Square was trying to get some realism out of them. It seems so, when I look at stone or fields.

But also the NPCs were changed. Up to now, old men were always depicted as these bearded guys with long robes and pointy hats. They are gone, now.

The whole game tells us: This is a break from the past of the series. This is not Fantasy anymore, at least not the way it was before. This is a new era for FF.

We are introduced to Biggs, Wedge (first appearance of these two) and Terra, who is still a mysterious woman who doesn't speak. Also, magitek armor. We learn, that an Esper has been found, but that it also seems like there were more mentions of them, with none of them true. Or maybe that it is the first mention of one since forever. In any case, it is an exciting event. We also learn, that the woman is controlled, in some way.

In wrote down "grim, wistful music plays", as we watch the credits, while the magitek armors walk over a snowy field. We know that bad things will happen. It reminded me of the start of FF IV, where we also started as soldiers of the evil empire. Except this time, two of our characters are clearly on the side of the empire, while the third has no choice.

The city we reach is empty, people probably are in their houses, enjoying the evening before going to bed. And probably scared, as everyone seems to know that magitek armor is used by the empire. We encounter only guards of the city, who stand no chance against us.

It's a great introduction. You can hardly lose here, being completely overpowered. Even when the game introduces the concept of being surrounded in battle, which normaly puts you at a huge disadvantage, but is irrelevant here. The empires weapons are just way too strong.

Terras armor is by far the strongest. I assume her magic enhances the armors capabilities, or more precisely, the armor is made, so that it enhances her magic? Interestingly, her strongest attack isn't a magical one - it's the missiles. Are we already talking about how technology is, in the end, stronger than magic?

For a bit more tutorial, we reach the mines where we have our first random encounters. Still no challenge, but it introduces us to concepts like "an enemy might attack one last time, directly before dying" and "some enemies are immune to certain conditions". Specifically, the wererat (the beautiful design is borrowed from FF II) is immune to poison, which you likely use, as it is the group attack from Terra.

We soon fight our first boss: Ymir, a Lightning Welch (basically a giant snail with a thorny house). It teaches us about the fact, that some monsters have multiple spaces to be hit, but also about timing our hits properly, so that we don't attack the house. It seems to be a nicer version of the introductory boss, than the one from FF V - attacking the house just healed Ymir, there was no counter attack.

The vanishing effect of the beaten boss looks great, by the way. Very impressive.

And then, we reach the Esper, frozen in ice. It is still awake, and simply kills Biggs and Wedge, while trying to communicate with Terra. At least I think so, she loses consciousness soon.

The screen goes dark, and we get the first character introduction:

A mysterious young woman,
born with the gift of magic,
and enslaved by the Gestahlian Empire...

When she wakes up, she lies in a bed, in a house of the city we just attacked. The old man who lives here took off the slave crown, that controlled Terra. She immediately recalls her name, which already shows her to have great capabilities. But there is no time, guards of Narshe (the city we are in) are looking for her. We flee through the back, into another entrance of the mines. After some time, we are surrounded by guards, fall through the floor, and Terra falls unconscious again.

We see a flashback, where creepy Kefka puts the slave crown on Terra, laughing. Terra is made to kill regular soldiers in the Magitek Armor, which also makes Kefka laugh. It's made clear already - that guy is EVIL and crazy. Afterwards, we see how emperor Gestahl addresses his soldiers, with Terra, Celes, Leo and Kefka in the background. Gestahl says, they have now magic to use. I guess he is talking about Terra, who he wants to use as the ultimate weapon of the empire. Or not, because the three generals can use magic too (or do they? I don't remember, if Leo just has techs). In any case, Gestahl wants to take over the rest of the world now.

As an aside, Gestahl always looked like a dog to me. One of these dogs with the big, floppy ears, and a long face. I just can't see a human in that sprite, as excellent as it is.

Afterwards, we change to a new character. Locke, the thief, who demands to be seen as a treasure hunter, visits the house where Terra woke up. We learn that he is late - he seems to be a new interpretation of Bartz, in some way. His music feels more like a song from FF V, free and adventurous.

A treasure hunter and trail-worn
traveler, searching the world
over for relics of the past...

That fits too. Like Bartz, he is a treasure hunter, who travels over the world. I never cared much for him, though, probably because he was just a weak thief, whose damage output was so lacking compared to other characters. And stealing never seemed worthwile to me. I will try to steal a bit, and already made a few decent ones - a few High Potions and some bandanas. The others are strong enough, that his attack doesn't really matter anyway, at least in random encounters.

This game sets itself up with a more complex narrative. Narshe could withstand the attacks of the Empire for now, but it will not be able to do this forever. It doesn't really use it to fight back either, because the indepentent people of the city don't want to allign themselves with the resistance group The Returners. I find that interesting, as it speaks of multiple factions - it's not just the evil empire, and the good rest of the world. There are more ideas here.

Fittingly, as we all know, this game doesn't just have one protagonist. Sure, Terra and Celes are more in focus than most other characters, but it is still an ensemble, with each character showing a different side of the world. Terra, for now, doesn't even have real agency, and sometimes, we don't have her in the party. This game seems more about the world, than about a small group of heroes.

Just in time, Locke reaches Terra, and we are greeted and helped by Moogles. We also have our first, simple TRPG battle. It's a nice idea, and adds to the fact that we will have a very big group of people, who are all part of the fight. It is also more of a fun novelty, in my opinion, because it is really easy to just use one party, rush around and kill all the walking enemies - or just rush to the boss.

For the record, here are the groups of Moogles:

Moglin, Mogret and Moggie
Mog, Molulu, Moghan and Moguel
Mogsy, Mogwin, Mugmug and Cosmog

I think I made my love for these little creatures clear already. They are still great and adorable, and being able to use them to fight is great. I actually find it interesting that they are in this game. It is a pretty dark and grim one, and in the following 3D titles, they are mainly gone, probably because they are too cute. But the sprites seem to allow for this.

After the battles, Locke shows how to get out (including the secret entrance to the city, which stumped me in earlier playthroughs, because I did forget about it later on). There is also the scene, where Locke promises to keep Terra save, and it already seems, like there is more to his personality, than just the happy-go-lucky thief.

Before going out, I visited that tutorial house, if nothing else, than at least for the treasure. I did finally learn, how to multitarget spells and that you actually can keep your experience and level, if you die. Interesting, I think this is the only FF that does this? Also, the job system isn't gone, of course - it's more a mix and match approach, with relics, that can be put to every character. I will talk more about this later on, when I have played around with the system a bit more.

Also, I hope to see at least one desperation attack.

After a short walk, we reach Figaro Castle, located in the desert. They have adorable chocobo knights (or maybe guards?). The king, Edgar, and Locke know each other. Edgar acts to the Empire, like they are allies, but is also, connected through Locke, part of the Returners. In general, with regards to Edgar:

The young king of Figaro Castle,
Imperial ally, and champion of
the technological revolution...

He is a cool character in many regards. I like, that his castle and his ability all show his first defining trait - that he is a technician. The castle itself, that it can dive under the earth, is just really cool. In general, in looks like a castle from the older FFs, except for added steampunk elements. It's a really cool look.

His other defining trait is, that he is a womanizer. The game at least acknowledges, that this isn't cool - there are some female servants who complain about his awful behaviour. But the game still treats him like a cool guy, so the critizism seems pretty hollow. Especially considering that there is never any development there.

I still used him in my party most of the time, when playing the game earlier. His tools are just too useful.

An old lady tells us about the past. We see a flashback, where we learn about Sabin, Edgars twin, who has been gone for a long time.

Edgar's twin brother,
who traded the throne
for his own freedom...

After exploring the castle, we learn that Kefka is on the way. We see more of his rotten character, when he complains about having to come out here, into the desert, and demands that his soldiers clean his boots from the sand.

Kefka demands Terra, but lies about the reason. When Edgar acts like he doesn't know anything, Kefka threatens him.

We change back to Terra, who is still just confused. I found that acutally surprising - I didn't remember, how much Terra is just seen as a weapon, not only by the empire, but also by the resistance. And that not only her lack of memory, but also her situation takes away her agency. She only runs away (understandable, of course), however Locke tells her to.

Edgar wakes up, when the castle is in flames, and Kefka comes back to get Terra. The scene is pretty cool, when we see Edgar, Locke and Terra flee with their Chocobos, and the castle vanishing into the sand. Surprisingly, the magitek armors seem to be faster than Chocobos, and catch up, leading to a fight. There is a scene, that only appears when Terra casts a spell.

I find it interesting, how magic is really treated as this big thing, that shouldn't exist anymore. Both Edgar and Locke can't believe it, when Terra starts burning the enemy. It also makes it clear, that he need Terra for the Returners.

After the battle, we have a short introduction to Chocobo riding. As cute as the birds are, and as nice Mode7 looks, I wished the game would do a bit more. After all that was done in V, with the differently colored ones, this is pretty underwhelming. I think I never used one of them, after this short sequence.

So, we are on the way to Baron, who is in the Returner headquarters. We soon reach South Figaro, which looks, of course, amazingly detailed.

One change from FF V is the lack of upgrades for the tent (I think at least, that we are now at this point). But there is a new item - the sleeping sack, which is a single-person tent. Considering that often, you only need to heal your mages' MP, this seems to be a sensible addition.

There are a few things going on, and I'm happy to report that there are still things hidden in random spots. Well, not really random, but in barrels and stuff. Still, it doesn't feel like it did in the older games. Part of that might be the atmosphere of the game, though, and the strong, driving narrative.

There seems to be a small sidequest, where you bring some alcohol(?) to and old guy, by following someone who does exactly that. But I couldn't really figure out how to do anything, so the old guy didn't want to talk to me about whatever secret he has.

We also find Shadow, who is mainly an NPC here. But it's probably already clear that, when a person gets a personal, black screen, they are important.

He comes and goes like the wind,
swearing allegiance to no one.
Hidden behind his wintry gaze
lies a face known to none who live...

With 15, I found Shadow extremely cool. Even than, I still imagined stories, that were at this point strongly informed by shonen anime. Shadow, with the addtion of a cape, was one of my main heroes - his fighting style was "borrowed" from Kenshin, and he was that cool, unemotional guy, who never lost a single fight. It was also a multi-generational story, where Shadow and his allies became legends, who aided the younger heroes, if necessary. I still played out the battles myself, back then. It was fun.

Anyway, we learn about Duncan, a master fighter or something like that, who trained his son Vargas and Sabin. Leaving the city, we soon learn that Vargas was killed. There is a hut, that Edgar identifies as Sabins. I do enjoy the relationship between the two brothers, but I think it also doesn't come up much? A shame, that is way more interesting than Edgar womanizing nonsense.

We need to climb a mountain, where the old master was killed. After following a shadow for some time, we reach the culprit - Vargas, Duncans son, who was angry because he thought, that Sabin should become the new master. Which doesn't seem to be true, according to what Sabin says later on. But anyway, the jerk attacks us, with two bears. Sure, why not.

As an aside, the monster design seemed to have changed again. Realism is the wrong word, but it does seem like the artstyle goes into that direction a bit? The bears still look somewhat cartoony, but I feel they tried to make them as un-cartoony as possible, within the limits of 2d sprites. You probably could easily base an FF VII bear on them. I mean, there are still cartoony monsters (see the wererat, or the thief from the same dungeon), but there is clearly something happening.

We first have to kill the bears, before being able to attack Vargas. After doing that a few times, which isn't particularly hard, Sabin appears (who Terra mistook for one of Vargas bears, I'm glad the game didn't lose all it's humour). Which makes Vargas angry enough, that he uses a special technic, blowing everyone aside from Sabin away.

It becomes a one-on-one, with an interesting combination of battle and storytelling. Sabin still tried to reason with Vargas, and only gives you the chance to attack normally, which will not kill Vargas. Only when Sabin nearly dies, will he tell you how to use his special abilities. Which are straight-up from a beat-em-up, it's kind of great. Using one of these ends the fight immediately.

We start to see now, that each character has their own special ability. Terra has magic, and Locke can steal, but that isn't anything new. Characters in FF IV were similarly specialized. But then, we meet Edgar, who can use tools that you need to buy. But, in case you forget to do that, he has his most important tool, the auto-crossbow, already with him. But it's still a simple thing - choose the point in the menu, choose the tool, use it.

With Sabin, there are now different inputs, that you have to memories. It's a very neat concept, and that you have to use it one time forces the player to learn about this. Which is good, because the blitzes are very powerful, with infinite uses. Instead, you have the chance to make the wrong input, and do just nothing.

I actually lost the fight against Vargas the first time. There was only time for one more attack, before Sabin would die, and just in time, the information about how to do the first blitz appeared. But, because the XBOX-controllers dpad is the worst, I did the input wrong, and then died.

After the fight, Edgar tells Sabin that he is done being a puppet for the empire, and Sabin joins.

In the flashback earlier, we learn that the old king was near death at some point in the past. It seems that Sabin and Edgar were both still young, and I guess they had different ideas about how to deal with the Empire. Edgar way was, to act like they were allies. I guess Sabin disegread with that idea, and chose to leave instead. This would explain why he joined, as soon as Figaro started to fight back.

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Well, that's it for now.

 

[nosimpleway]

When I LPed this back in the day the thread title was "Who needs the Fight command, anyway?" Between Tools and Blitz you already have two skillsets that bypass accuracy checks to always hit and deal more damage than a standard attack. If you wanna count Mug once you pick it up later on and Throw once you recruit the guy who has it, four. Out of five characters you've met. Even with the Evade bug fixed you'll never actually need one of those Sniper Whatchamacallits.

The Lightning Whelk is a neat idea in the vein of the Mist Dragon and the Wing Raptor, teaching the player how the active time battle works. In practice you're waiting for a monster to reveal its weak point so you can shoot it with missiles and lasers so you might as well be playing Metroid.

Sleeping bags might make sense mechanically but if you think about it, you've got one person getting all their HP and MP back because they've got a cushy bedroll, and everyone else in the party just... watches them sleep? Naps on the grass and rocks and wishes they had a pillow?

Walking through South Figaro is weird because you can go to the rich guy's house and discover he's an Imperial sympathizer, writing a letter that will betray the town to Gestahl, and Edgar is standing right there. Like, he's the unquestioned leader of a monarchy. I don't see a parliament or anything anywhere. Any particular reason we can't just whip out a spear and nip this treasonous collaboration in the bud right now? No? Okay.

When you meet Shadow, Edgar goes "Oh man that guy would kill anybody if there's a dime to be made better steer clear" and it's just like, wow, Edgar. That's pretty harsh. Terrible thing to say about someone really. You know what? I bet he wouldn't. I bet that guy wouldn't kill someone near and dear to him, just absolutely could not bring himself to end the life of a good friend, even if his friend was begging him to.

In the SNES translation Terra imagines Sabin as some bodybuilder who wandered away from his gym, which is fair enough I guess. In later retranslations she had mistaken him for another one of Vargas's trained bears. Either way Sabin refers to himself as a bear later on in the conversation, but it only makes sense in the GBA-and-later retranslations. (Unless you wanna take "bear" to mean that Sabin is a burly gay man...)

I used to grind everyone up to level 13 before fighting Vargas, because Sabin joins at average party level plus two. At level 15, Sabin learns Phoenix Dance, a fire-elemental attack that hits all enemies -- it makes the next few sections of the game much easier.

I have read that the monster art in 6 is designed to be viewed on a CRT television. The tech blurs some of the fine pixel art together so that the monsters look like they were painted in brushstrokes.

Remember to stick Banon in the back row once he joins!

On the character focus:
Final Fantasy games tend to swing pendulum-like between "detailed character customization system" and "static character mechanics with better-defined character development".
Final Fantasy 3 introduced the job system with interchangeable, nameless characters.
Final Fantasy 4 had static you-learn-X-spell-at-Y-level improvements with characters that developed over the story.
Final Fantasy 5 refined the job system and allowed skills to be transferred between jobs for the first time, but characters didn't really develop much more than "adventurer", "princess", "Mary Sue", and "pirate who is also a princess".
Final Fantasy 6 swings back the other way. It's Everyone Gets Character Development: The Game, but each character is stuck doing their own special ability for the entire story (with one major exception to be found in the middle of act two). Most of the characters have shades of previous standard jobs, but almost always with a twist.

Terra's job is given as "Magitek Elite". This is functionally "red mage"... sort of. Her special ability until further notice is the ability to use magic, with a fondness for fire-elemental spells. But there's no clear-cut line to say she gets "offensive" or "defensive" magic, because without further interference she'll learn Cura, Raise, Arise, and Teleport -- along with Firaga, Holy, Break, Flare, and Ultima. Her equipment isn't particularly mage-like, either: she can equip robes and flails, or go for heavy armor and knightswords.
Once she unlocks her special ability, it's a hyper mode that to my knowledge doesn't show up as a job ability at any other point in the series. FF9 takes it and runs with their version of limit breaks, but that doesn't really count.

Locke's job is given as "Adventurer". This is functionally "thief" (although he'd be offended to hear it)... sort of. He's got the Steal ability, the speed, and the fondness for knives and boomerangs... but like Terra, can equip heavy armor and knightswords.

Edgar's job is "Machinist". This is functionally... um... ah... hmm. Edgar's skills don't really have an analogue to the established job system, because there's not a job where you buy your damage- and status-dealing skills in a shop and deploy them without MP cost or other penalty. His go-to skill for now is summoner-esque, with attacks that damage, confuse, or poison the entire enemy party, but later he supplements it with single-target attacks and the ability to inflict elemental weaknesses on foes.
Given his speed and vitality scores, Edgar is functionally the opposite of a summoner, and his equipment preference is for spears, shields, and heavy armor.
In a narrative sense, Edgar unintentionally undercuts the whole conflict of the first half of the game. You have to wonder why Gestahl is bothering to study Espers or infuse his troopers with magic when he could spend his time more productively trying to reverse-engineer the autocrossbow. He doesn't even need MP that way!

Sabin is a Monk, which is functionally a Monk... sort of. Most Monks in this series have no magical talent whatsoever, and rely on smacking enemies with their bare fists (or splitting damage from a physical attack to all targets with a flying kick). Of Sabin's eight Blitz skills, four are based on his Magic rather than his physical strength, and three are blasts of elemental magic at that.
Every other Blitz Sabin learns is another quarter-circle on the controller input. Look, Street Fighter II was really popular at the time, okay? Aura Cannon is QCF, Phoenix Dance is a half-circle, and so on. But this is an RPG, not a fighting game, and was always intended to be played on a controller with a cross-shaped directional input rather than a joystick. So there's a trick to getting those to work right: any diagonal directional input can be substituted for either of the two directions that make up the diagonal.
Aura Cannon demands a down-left diagonal. But because of this -- bug? feature? whatever it is -- you can press either down or left instead. So Aura Cannon turns from a tricky QCF on a cross pad to either down-down-left or down-left-left. Easy and reliable.

Shadow's job is given as "Assassin", which makes sense, because while he dresses like one he doesn't have the low defense and HP and ludicrously high Speed typical of Final Fantasy Ninja job. And he can't dual-wield without the same relic everyone else uses to do the same. The only ninjalike thing he can do is Throw weapons, including some scrolls to replace the magic that ninja get sometimes.
He also has a pet dog that's like ten times stronger than he is. woof woof woof woof woof woof woof WILD FANG
(Watch out for Rippler!)
Wait, if there are spell scrolls you can just pick up in a shop somewhere that release blasts of fire and electricity, why are Espers such a big deal again?

 

[Torzelbaum]

But there is a new item - the sleeping sack, which is a single-person tent. Considering that often, you only need to heal your mages' MP, this seems to be a sensible addition.

That is sensible but I don't remember if I ever used them that way. Maybe in the early game but as you proceed I guess tents are cheap enough (and everyone can have MP that need refilling) that you never bother with the bags/sacks again. Or at least I never bothered with them again. Other than hoarding them "just in case".

Sleeping bags might make sense mechanically but if you think about it, you've got one person getting all their HP and MP back because they've got a cushy bedroll, and everyone else in the party just... watches them sleep? Naps on the grass and rocks and wishes they had a pillow?

I guess they can't really go for a walk because they might get into a random encounter. But if you're injured and don't have a tent I guess waiting while your healer takes a nap is better than limping along and hoping you can survive to the next town or nearest Chocobo stable.

Edgar's skills don't really have an analogue to the established job system

Earlier games have added new jobs/classes so 6 isn't any different in that regard.

Wait, if there are spell scrolls you can just pick up in a shop somewhere that release blasts of fire and electricity, why are Espers such a big deal again?

Good question but can only people like Shadow use those scrolls? Are there enough of them to make them a good item for stores to stock? And are they mass produced because they are relatively cheap. Were they something that the Empire developed that got out of their control?