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I had a good feeling! Celebrating 40 Years and 108 JRPGs of Destiny
- Thread starter Lokii
- Start date
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- shrug life
Lunar:SSSC was the game that finally convinced me to buy a Playstation; I had to have it. I was content with my N64 up until that point, but a friend brought it over and showed me a cutscene and within a week I had my own copy. It is near and dear to my heart. It was the perfect game at the perfect age. I can sing the entirety of the intro and the boat song from memory without a moment's hesitation.
This. Lunar and Grandia are both just so damn earnest and joyful, which is even rarer today than it was back then. Lots of games seek to cash in on nostalgia, but few deliver the experience of making me feel like a kid again.
Yup, another solid entry and also on my list. I can imagine a younger generation not seeing the appeal, that multimedia anime presentation was just so extraordinary on release. I remember being blown away by screenshots in a magazine and feeling the pain of having no access to a Sega CD.
When it launched for PSX a few years later and I finally got my hands on it, it already felt like a throwback, but I was still infatuated from before.
When it launched for PSX a few years later and I finally got my hands on it, it already felt like a throwback, but I was still infatuated from before.
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
It's kinda frustrating that the Sega CD gets caught up in the "it doesn't have any worthwhile games!" discourse as if it were the 32X. It's got quite a few awesome ones, and the Lunar games are part of it. It's too bad it didn't catch on, but then, most add-ons don't.
For the record, I didn't actually have the system until well past its prime - I got it right around the Dreamcast launch from one of my brother's college classmates. But I was used to being behind on systems, so that was no bother.
For the record, I didn't actually have the system until well past its prime - I got it right around the Dreamcast launch from one of my brother's college classmates. But I was used to being behind on systems, so that was no bother.
Mothra
(he/him)
Regarding Chrono Cross, it's really become one of my favorite JRPGs of all time over the years. There is such a wonderfully slow and sorrowful tone to the game, full of beautiful places at peace, full of people who have things to say. The parallel worlds element lets you see the different paths everyone you talk to could have taken, how none of them are the "right" path, but different, revealing things to them that their alternate self couldn't yet know. Graphically I think it holds up very well, especially since it's, somehow, a PS1 game. I won't get into the soundtrack because its praises have been sung a million and one times, but I do believe it to be the best vg soundtrack ever made.
When the plot becomes a mess halfway through, it at least does so in a bizarre and interesting way. CC definitely becomes one of those games where you're holding some threads to your heart, but leaving others on the table. I think it's nice that even the story elements that don't work or are far too rushed are things you can see the nugget of gold within.
When the plot becomes a mess halfway through, it at least does so in a bizarre and interesting way. CC definitely becomes one of those games where you're holding some threads to your heart, but leaving others on the table. I think it's nice that even the story elements that don't work or are far too rushed are things you can see the nugget of gold within.
I had Chrono Cross at #23 (previously at #21). I think everything I could say has already been said except for the fact that I feel like I'm one of the few people who likes / appreciates the battle system (but maybe I have more kindred spirits here than I think). It also has one of my (and MetManMas') favorite video game enemies - the Fossicker.
I had Lunar: Silver Star Story (Complete) at #8 (previously at #7). I do remember when anime wasn't really a big thing but then I was exposed to it in the late 80s/early 90s and I became quite enamored with it. Lunar on the PSX was a nice way to scratch that itch until anime started gaining more exposure and popularity beginning in the early 2000s (or so).
(I didn't get the deluxest edition of either Lunar remake on PSX but I think I might still have Lucia's pendant around in a box somewhere.)
I had Lunar: Silver Star Story (Complete) at #8 (previously at #7). I do remember when anime wasn't really a big thing but then I was exposed to it in the late 80s/early 90s and I became quite enamored with it. Lunar on the PSX was a nice way to scratch that itch until anime started gaining more exposure and popularity beginning in the early 2000s (or so).
Not Ghaleon dear Quark, Punching Puppet Ghaleon!
(I didn't get the deluxest edition of either Lunar remake on PSX but I think I might still have Lucia's pendant around in a box somewhere.)
OK. I can mostly do the first but not the second.
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Purple
(She/Her)
The PSX version of Lunar hit at like the perfect time for me. I picked it up the same exact day as Star Ocean 2, and the sheer contrast of having all these weird gimmicky PSX RPGs drowning in Systems and then this nice simple cute little thing really made it a breath of fresh air.
I also played the hell out of the weird little hidden bonus that was Lords of Lunar.
I also played the hell out of the weird little hidden bonus that was Lords of Lunar.
jpfriction
(He, Him)
I started to play through the sega cd version of Lunar recently but it was somehow a little too old school even for me. I switched to the psx version and they cleaned it up enough to hold my attention. Letting Luna hang out in your party for more than an hour makes up for any questionable localization choice, imho.
Perfect comfort rpg gaming.
Perfect comfort rpg gaming.
FelixSH
(He/Him)
Chrono Chross was my number 30. It has a bit of a weird place in my heart an memory. I only played it one time, and that was now 15 years ago. I did enjoy the story, for how goofy some of the turns were, even aside from any connection to Trigger (at least in my memory). Not that this is a negative, it makes me want to really give it a second try, because I'm so curious. I remember being disappointed in how little the parallel dimensions seem to vary, but I would probably appreciate that more, today, too.
I liked the battle system a lot. I remember it as pretty unique, and fun to try to get the battlefield to be in the right color for you. I LOVED, that you could skip all the regular enemies (I don't think I fought a single battle that I didn't have to). As I understand it, you can level up from them, but only to a certain amount, until the next boss unlocks leveling up further. Which explains, why bosses that others found pretty easy were very hard for me. Funnily enough, I had no problem at all with that old man.
I still remember loving how the world felt. I mean, the bright colors obviously, you start the game and get surprised by these wonderful, saturated tones. But also the setting, nothing ever felt really urgent to me, it felt relaxed, fitting for this tropical setting. Again, it's been 15 years, so I might remember wrong, but that's at least the impression the game gave me.
Also love the weirdos you can get here. The luchador priest jumps out immediately, of course, but also the weird as hell clown skeleton, that you first have to assemble by finding its parts.
I still can't exactly point to why the game left such a deep impression with me, that I still have a very good memory of it, after all this time and only one playthrough. But that probably says a lot about this game, and what it does right. And I do love my big, weird, messy jrpgs.
--------------------------------
I don't have much to add for Lunar. I played it at roughly the same time, maybe one or two years later. It is not on my list, but I did enjoy it, and remember it well. I wished I could have played it, when it was new, the cutscenes alone would have blown me away. I still remember beating the final boss. And then dying, because you have to walk a bit, and lose hp with each step. I just would never have expected, that a jrpg would let you die outside of a battle. Even damage tiles normally reduce your hp to 1, not outright kill you. I was pretty annoyed by it, and actually never beat it, in that sense, I just watched the ending on youtube. If I ever replay it, I will at least not repeat that mistake.
I liked the battle system a lot. I remember it as pretty unique, and fun to try to get the battlefield to be in the right color for you. I LOVED, that you could skip all the regular enemies (I don't think I fought a single battle that I didn't have to). As I understand it, you can level up from them, but only to a certain amount, until the next boss unlocks leveling up further. Which explains, why bosses that others found pretty easy were very hard for me. Funnily enough, I had no problem at all with that old man.
I still remember loving how the world felt. I mean, the bright colors obviously, you start the game and get surprised by these wonderful, saturated tones. But also the setting, nothing ever felt really urgent to me, it felt relaxed, fitting for this tropical setting. Again, it's been 15 years, so I might remember wrong, but that's at least the impression the game gave me.
Also love the weirdos you can get here. The luchador priest jumps out immediately, of course, but also the weird as hell clown skeleton, that you first have to assemble by finding its parts.
I still can't exactly point to why the game left such a deep impression with me, that I still have a very good memory of it, after all this time and only one playthrough. But that probably says a lot about this game, and what it does right. And I do love my big, weird, messy jrpgs.
--------------------------------
I don't have much to add for Lunar. I played it at roughly the same time, maybe one or two years later. It is not on my list, but I did enjoy it, and remember it well. I wished I could have played it, when it was new, the cutscenes alone would have blown me away. I still remember beating the final boss. And then dying, because you have to walk a bit, and lose hp with each step. I just would never have expected, that a jrpg would let you die outside of a battle. Even damage tiles normally reduce your hp to 1, not outright kill you. I was pretty annoyed by it, and actually never beat it, in that sense, I just watched the ending on youtube. If I ever replay it, I will at least not repeat that mistake.
Lunar SSSC was at my #27, which surprises me upon reflection, as it feels like it should be higher. I was vaguely aware of it via magazines and the internet, but when I heard about the special edition, I had to have it. I didn't get the puppet though, EB Games had either run out of or didn't get that edition, but I still had the thick jewel-case-sized box with all the other extras (and listened to the soundtrack a decent bit). As a teenager, I was particularly drawn in by the hot spring cutscenes and secret sexy bromide pictures, I'll admit. And Luna was perhaps the first video game character I became smitten with, my very first waifu. Not only was this a JRPG, which genre I was entirely immersed in at the time, it had pretty girls in PG-13 states of undress to boot, which only added to the exotic anime feel.
But mainly the game was just fun, charming, and beautiful. The videos and voices, of course, but the environments and character sprites, while not technically impressive, were colorful and cute, the battle system had a few unique elements with its positioning and multiple attacks, the story was as engaging as any good shonen melodrama adventure could be. It hit me at apparently the perfect time, and it and its sequel occupy a special nostalgic place in my heart.
Interesting that I said here that SSSC left a deeper impression on me than EBC did, and the posts I made for each seem to corroborate this, and yet when I look back at my ranking list, I had EBC one spot above SSSC, at #26. I'm honestly not sure if I would make the same decision again today were I to recompile my list... I don't recall my logic for ranking them that way in the first place, either. Weird! Anyway.
But mainly the game was just fun, charming, and beautiful. The videos and voices, of course, but the environments and character sprites, while not technically impressive, were colorful and cute, the battle system had a few unique elements with its positioning and multiple attacks, the story was as engaging as any good shonen melodrama adventure could be. It hit me at apparently the perfect time, and it and its sequel occupy a special nostalgic place in my heart.
As a reminder, Lunar 2 Eternal Blue appeared earlier, down at #71, to which I posted this.
Interesting that I said here that SSSC left a deeper impression on me than EBC did, and the posts I made for each seem to corroborate this, and yet when I look back at my ranking list, I had EBC one spot above SSSC, at #26. I'm honestly not sure if I would make the same decision again today were I to recompile my list... I don't recall my logic for ranking them that way in the first place, either. Weird! Anyway.
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I voted for both Cross and Lunar. Cross I think I like better than Trigger, though it’s been a long time since I played either. It’s a really beautiful game, I like the cast, and I think the two worlds how-might-things-have-gone-differently thing works well. Poor old Miguel.
Lunar I first played on PS1 via piracy (I don’t think it came out in PAL) and honestly I don’t really remember it. I eventually came across copies of both the first and second game for Mega CD and have played that more recently using the unworked designs patch which reverses the gameplay changes of the US version and also adds mixed case text. As has been said, it’s a great blue skies RPG. It’s also, not having come out in my territory, one of those games that I heard of but didn’t have access to for a long time, allowing my younger self to sort of build it up in imagination which I think plays into its dreamer on an adventure vibe.
Lunar I first played on PS1 via piracy (I don’t think it came out in PAL) and honestly I don’t really remember it. I eventually came across copies of both the first and second game for Mega CD and have played that more recently using the unworked designs patch which reverses the gameplay changes of the US version and also adds mixed case text. As has been said, it’s a great blue skies RPG. It’s also, not having come out in my territory, one of those games that I heard of but didn’t have access to for a long time, allowing my younger self to sort of build it up in imagination which I think plays into its dreamer on an adventure vibe.
Chrono Cross was one of the very first games I played new and it holds a special place in my heart. Aesthetically is remains unmatched.
I played Eternal Blue before Silver Star Story and still hold it in higher esteem, but both Lunar games are a good time. I feel like they might be games that were of a time and place, but I am also of that time and place and will never not enjoy them.
I played Eternal Blue before Silver Star Story and still hold it in higher esteem, but both Lunar games are a good time. I feel like they might be games that were of a time and place, but I am also of that time and place and will never not enjoy them.
I've been away from the forum for a good bit, and would probably have been unable to provide a list to this contest in any case. That said, a few thoughts:
Vagrant Story: I've made several attempts at this game and have always gotten myself into a state that's... not quite unwinnable, but would require significant grinding or other assorted jiggery-pokery to return the game to a winnable state, and the amount and nature of said jiggery-pokery always felt unpleasant to me.
Thankfully, there appears to be a way around these problems. Prior to my most recent attempt at the game, I did some reading on it, and it turns out that you apparently really only need four weapons at any given time in the game. The article that laid this out has it that despite what the game's own manual suggests, the highest priority in determining how much damage you deal is actually based on damage type (slashing, piercing, blunt). After that, I believe it's enemy type followed by elemental affinity, but these two are less important for weapon crafting because you can always socket gems and/or apply buffs/debuffs to address those aspects of damage. The lone exception is undead enemies, for whom damage taken does seem to rely enemy type (presumably because a ghost doesn't care whether it's being hit by a club or a sword). Hence the need for four weapons: one for each of the three base damage types, and a fourth for undead enemies.
I can vouch for this approach to an extent. I am a few hours into the game, enough to have "surfaced" to the town portion of Lea Monde and begun trekking back underground again, and have run into few if any real roadblocks using this method. I have progressed past this point of the game in one previous attempt, but it was a miserable slog where most of the damage I was dealing to bosses came from using the various "reflect damage" defense arts, which ah... is not an ideal way to go through the game. The new method, so far, seems to be working quite a bit better.
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter: If I had made a list, this would have been at or near the top of it. I bought my first copy of it sometime shortly after it launched, and although I bounced off of it, I held onto the game. I just had this odd feeling that the problem was me in some way, not the game itself. Sure enough, a couple years or so later I was in the right mindset for it and everything clicked into place. Later still, my wife, not normally a JRPG-enjoyer, fell in love with it almost as much as I did, to the extent that we needed to buy a second copy of the game. Whenever I was playing it, she'd want to play. And whenever she was, I would. Since we had a PS2 and a phat PS3 hooked up to two different TVs in the house, having a second copy was an ideal solution.
I am a bit puzzled by the characterization of it as a rogue-like, or even a rogue-lite. The restarting mechanic is about the only aspect of the game I would put in that category, and even that feels different in a way I'd need to think on to really be able to articulate well.
I also seem to remember more than one review site complaining about the game, in particular both for the need to restart and also for its relative brevity (once you know what you're doing and are well-enough outfitted, you can run from start to finish in something like eight to ten hours, not counting the bonus dungeon Kokon Horay). Nobody seemed to put together that these two aspects were of a piece with each other -- that if it was a game you were meant to restart, then it probably should be short so as not to be onerous. Certainly any new player starting fresh is likely to clock twenty-plus hours before seeing the credits roll. Still perhaps short-ish for an RPG, but still.
The genre I've seen it compared to that I do agree with, and which I believe the director himself stated was being aimed at, was survival horror. While the horror aspect is pretty absent (the conditions of the game's world are without doubt horrifying, but very little fright is inspired in the player), the survival aspect is very much front and center. You have finite inventory space, a finite number of items that can fit in a single slot, a finite amount of money you can earn to resupply yourself (unless you're taking advantage of the game's systems to grind), a very small and thinly distributed number of places you can spend your money, and a limited amount of time. Time is measured not on a clock, but by action and movement. Once the counter starts, any moves you make while transformed cause it to rise. Even walking around will make it go up. Every couple-dozen steps or so will make it increase by a hundredth of a percent, and at a certain point, that frequency rises to every dozen. In practice, it's not too bad. My own strategy has always been to hold off on using the transformation at all until the final stretch of the game, and it's served me well. But the need to be careful with resources, pick your battles, and avoid wasting time and energy has a surprising amount in common with Resident Evil and its ilk.
Lunar: I'm glad to see both of these on the list, though if it were me, I would have reversed their positions. Just a matter of personal preference. I played PS1 version of the first game at launch, shortly after I graduated high school, and its sense of optimism mirrored my own -- which was misplaced, for a variety of reasons, but no less real for that.
The second game, I remember pre-ordering before I shipped out for basic training, allowing hope to contest my experience with Working Designs' chronic delays (to wit: no RPG ever announced by them ever released on the originally announced date, and would in fact slip and slide past any number of posted release dates with zero notice until practically the day of the most recently given date). Alas, hope lost out. I got the punching puppet, but eventually the release date got pushed back beyond my ship-out date. The local Babbage's where I'd ordered it couldn't be trusted to call reliably when pre-orders came in, so I doubted my parents would be able to pick it up for me after I left. When I went into the story to cancel my pre-order and get my refund, I joked something along the lines of "Well, at least I got the punching puppet." The guy at the counter then decided it would be a good idea to tell me he had to ask for that back. Needless to say, that didn't happen.
When I came home for Christmas that year, I was thankful to find a copy of the game still available new and shrink-wrapped. Years later, I looked up the actual launch date, just for the hell of it, and then laughed for a good minute or so. Turns out the game had launched a mere three days before I got home. I could've kept the pre-order after all.
Unlike SSSC, which I beat within a few weeks to a month after buying, it took me seven years to get to the end of EBC. Partly because life circumstances meant I didn't have a lot of time to really dig into it, and by the time I did, I had a whole host of newer and shinier distractions. Eventually, it was January of 2008 and I'd been laid off. It was bitterly cold, I was running out of money, I was living mainly on cold cuts and cheese, I had the thermostat at around maybe 60 degrees Fahrenheit, and I was desperate for distractions. It occurred to me that now I had all the time in the world to finally beat EBC, and so I set to it, there in a darkened room in the middle of winter, wrapped in a blanket.
I don't know that there was any particular message in the game that really resonated with me, but it was certainly helpful at that time of my life to play a game whose more general message was ultimately about the victory of faith, hope, and love over the powers of darkness, destruction, and despair.
Vagrant Story: I've made several attempts at this game and have always gotten myself into a state that's... not quite unwinnable, but would require significant grinding or other assorted jiggery-pokery to return the game to a winnable state, and the amount and nature of said jiggery-pokery always felt unpleasant to me.
Thankfully, there appears to be a way around these problems. Prior to my most recent attempt at the game, I did some reading on it, and it turns out that you apparently really only need four weapons at any given time in the game. The article that laid this out has it that despite what the game's own manual suggests, the highest priority in determining how much damage you deal is actually based on damage type (slashing, piercing, blunt). After that, I believe it's enemy type followed by elemental affinity, but these two are less important for weapon crafting because you can always socket gems and/or apply buffs/debuffs to address those aspects of damage. The lone exception is undead enemies, for whom damage taken does seem to rely enemy type (presumably because a ghost doesn't care whether it's being hit by a club or a sword). Hence the need for four weapons: one for each of the three base damage types, and a fourth for undead enemies.
I can vouch for this approach to an extent. I am a few hours into the game, enough to have "surfaced" to the town portion of Lea Monde and begun trekking back underground again, and have run into few if any real roadblocks using this method. I have progressed past this point of the game in one previous attempt, but it was a miserable slog where most of the damage I was dealing to bosses came from using the various "reflect damage" defense arts, which ah... is not an ideal way to go through the game. The new method, so far, seems to be working quite a bit better.
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter: If I had made a list, this would have been at or near the top of it. I bought my first copy of it sometime shortly after it launched, and although I bounced off of it, I held onto the game. I just had this odd feeling that the problem was me in some way, not the game itself. Sure enough, a couple years or so later I was in the right mindset for it and everything clicked into place. Later still, my wife, not normally a JRPG-enjoyer, fell in love with it almost as much as I did, to the extent that we needed to buy a second copy of the game. Whenever I was playing it, she'd want to play. And whenever she was, I would. Since we had a PS2 and a phat PS3 hooked up to two different TVs in the house, having a second copy was an ideal solution.
I am a bit puzzled by the characterization of it as a rogue-like, or even a rogue-lite. The restarting mechanic is about the only aspect of the game I would put in that category, and even that feels different in a way I'd need to think on to really be able to articulate well.
I also seem to remember more than one review site complaining about the game, in particular both for the need to restart and also for its relative brevity (once you know what you're doing and are well-enough outfitted, you can run from start to finish in something like eight to ten hours, not counting the bonus dungeon Kokon Horay). Nobody seemed to put together that these two aspects were of a piece with each other -- that if it was a game you were meant to restart, then it probably should be short so as not to be onerous. Certainly any new player starting fresh is likely to clock twenty-plus hours before seeing the credits roll. Still perhaps short-ish for an RPG, but still.
The genre I've seen it compared to that I do agree with, and which I believe the director himself stated was being aimed at, was survival horror. While the horror aspect is pretty absent (the conditions of the game's world are without doubt horrifying, but very little fright is inspired in the player), the survival aspect is very much front and center. You have finite inventory space, a finite number of items that can fit in a single slot, a finite amount of money you can earn to resupply yourself (unless you're taking advantage of the game's systems to grind), a very small and thinly distributed number of places you can spend your money, and a limited amount of time. Time is measured not on a clock, but by action and movement. Once the counter starts, any moves you make while transformed cause it to rise. Even walking around will make it go up. Every couple-dozen steps or so will make it increase by a hundredth of a percent, and at a certain point, that frequency rises to every dozen. In practice, it's not too bad. My own strategy has always been to hold off on using the transformation at all until the final stretch of the game, and it's served me well. But the need to be careful with resources, pick your battles, and avoid wasting time and energy has a surprising amount in common with Resident Evil and its ilk.
Lunar: I'm glad to see both of these on the list, though if it were me, I would have reversed their positions. Just a matter of personal preference. I played PS1 version of the first game at launch, shortly after I graduated high school, and its sense of optimism mirrored my own -- which was misplaced, for a variety of reasons, but no less real for that.
The second game, I remember pre-ordering before I shipped out for basic training, allowing hope to contest my experience with Working Designs' chronic delays (to wit: no RPG ever announced by them ever released on the originally announced date, and would in fact slip and slide past any number of posted release dates with zero notice until practically the day of the most recently given date). Alas, hope lost out. I got the punching puppet, but eventually the release date got pushed back beyond my ship-out date. The local Babbage's where I'd ordered it couldn't be trusted to call reliably when pre-orders came in, so I doubted my parents would be able to pick it up for me after I left. When I went into the story to cancel my pre-order and get my refund, I joked something along the lines of "Well, at least I got the punching puppet." The guy at the counter then decided it would be a good idea to tell me he had to ask for that back. Needless to say, that didn't happen.
When I came home for Christmas that year, I was thankful to find a copy of the game still available new and shrink-wrapped. Years later, I looked up the actual launch date, just for the hell of it, and then laughed for a good minute or so. Turns out the game had launched a mere three days before I got home. I could've kept the pre-order after all.
Unlike SSSC, which I beat within a few weeks to a month after buying, it took me seven years to get to the end of EBC. Partly because life circumstances meant I didn't have a lot of time to really dig into it, and by the time I did, I had a whole host of newer and shinier distractions. Eventually, it was January of 2008 and I'd been laid off. It was bitterly cold, I was running out of money, I was living mainly on cold cuts and cheese, I had the thermostat at around maybe 60 degrees Fahrenheit, and I was desperate for distractions. It occurred to me that now I had all the time in the world to finally beat EBC, and so I set to it, there in a darkened room in the middle of winter, wrapped in a blanket.
I don't know that there was any particular message in the game that really resonated with me, but it was certainly helpful at that time of my life to play a game whose more general message was ultimately about the victory of faith, hope, and love over the powers of darkness, destruction, and despair.
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
Sorry you had to go through that struggle, Wolf, but thanks for sharing for sure. There are games that hit us just right in trying times of life, and make them unforgettable. One of mine, although I don't think it will show up on this list (it didn't even on mine!) was Atelier Iris, which I remember playing when my Mom was going through serious health issues and I wasn't sure if she would make it or not. (She did, thank God!)
Sorry, I was away on a business trip! I voted for all three of these last ones. Though since I'm late to the party most of my comments are a bit of a re-hash...
FFXV was a bit above the halfway point of my list, and a bit above the halfway point of all the FFs I had on it. I played the original release (maybe just a few patches by the time I finished) and yeah, the pacing gets pretty rough in the final hours, but I still really enjoyed the whole thing. I spent a pretty huge amount of time in the open world so by the time I finally triggered the plot point that puts you on a both a figurative and literal railroad to the ending, I was fully invested in these goobers and their fates, and the darker and more disjointed tone that suddenly manifests just made me want to push through and see them to their destinations. Rushed and unpolished though those parts may be, they only constituted like 5% of my time with the game, and as other have said the other 95% is just wall to wall immaculate vibes. I even dug the combat system, though honestly I couldn't tell you a lot in detail about it now - took a bit to get the hang of what the game was expecting but after a bit of time with it, it totally clicked for me. It removes a lot of friction (which, for random encounters, I tend to classify as a good thing) and when you get into the flow of it, warping all over the battlefield tearing up mooks is just a joy. Basically you can combat on vibes as well - but there's still enough options to keep things interesting against bosses or if you want to challenge out-of-depth monsters in the open world, notably the nasty stuff that pops up at night. Anyway, yeah, when the game was coming out I was initially skeptical of the "Bro Trip" setup, but those boys are just charmers and totally won me overe.
Chrono Cross I had higher on my list - sure, a dozen down from Trigger, but that's still really good. Gorgeous game, impeccable soundtrack, really interesting and unique battle system, stuffed with fun characters and replayability. Sure, one of the timelines you're dealing with does the original cast pretty dirty, but it's just that - a possible timeline, one which you're in the process of fixing. The ways you can customize your characters and manipulate the flow of battle are really fun. Honestly, if there's one complaint I remember about the systems, it's that setting up summons is so finicky (requiring you to fill up the field history with one element, probably against enemies that are using different ones) that I think I ended up trying them in weak encounters just to actually get to see the animations. But when you actually pull finicky things off it feels real good, culminating in the true ending, which is just... man, to this day that bit of the ending where Schala's theme soars into the melody puts a lump in my throat.
Lunar SSS was also on my list though lower down; I played the Working Designs PS1 version when it was new, though sadly I didn't manage to snag the punching puppet. As Lokii mentioned a big part of how the game hit was the sheer novelty of getting so much raw ANIME in an American game instead of having all the edges sanded off in localization, and in particular the idea of an American company having so much input into expanding the presentation of a Japanese RPG was kind of mind-blowing. Of course a lot of the WD dialogue doesn't hold up today to say the least, but it was an impressive thing at the time for sure. And as for the actual gameplay, it's just nice and cozy, which is just fine in a context where we're there for the anime spectacle going on around it.
36: Legend of Mana
Square, 1999: PSX Points: 384 Votes: 10
It works like this: Legend of Mana puts you in the role of a divine avatar tasked with reviving the barren world of Fa’Diel. You are initially presented with an empty stretch of continent and an Artifact to plop down. Doing so transforms it into a location you can visit to find more Artifacts, which, in turn, transform into more visitable locations. By continuing to discover and place Artifacts you eventually plant the Mana Tree, repopulate the continent, and win the game. Yet, throughout this process it's hard to shake the feeling that everything’s a little… thin. For all of its stunning locales and oddball characters, there’s a shallowness permeating everything. For example, bits of story and character dialogue are unexpectedly terse, as if half the script were missing or the player were expected to have context they were never given. Quests begin and end abruptly and without any cathartic payoff. And worse, without an active quest to provide story events and direction, locations become empty candy shells, pretty to look at but devoid of any substance.
So, Legend of Mana presents itself as a nice-looking but simplistic and easy game, with a terse and weightless story, and a ton of purposeless appendages.
Eventually, the game will funnel the player into one of three primary questlines, focusing on a specific group of NPCs, their backstories, and finally one of three final bosses. Afterwards, the player might feel compelled to see one of the other questlines or other content they might have missed. Upon restarting, they find they now can access the game’s two difficulty options: either significantly powering up enemies, or pushing them all to max level. And now the game begins to make sense. Under these new difficulty conditions the excess subsystems become necessary. And, by being necessary, they demand attention. Given full attention, they reveal depth of complexity, scope for player expression, and become objects of awe and wonder.
Many games purport to create a livable experience, a place the player feels like they really inhabit. Sometimes they do this via highly detailed world simulation, such as an Elder Scrolls; or sometimes via social and customizable life simulation, like an Animal Crossing. Legend of Mana achieves it by obscuring all its depth and complexity, to an artful degree. This is a game content to hide its light under a bushel for an entire playthrough—and even then requires the player to seek out and set the difficulty settings that make all its joyous and enriching subsystems even relevant. For the curious player—the player who sees the thin surface as an invitation—the game rewards with a magnificent discoverability and inhabitability.
As one begins to pry into all the deep crannies and nuances of its gameplay they feel like they belong in and are of Fa’diel. Suddenly the terse dialog and truncated story scenes begin to make sense as events happening in the world independent of the player, where the player starts to feel they’re being told exactly what they need to inhabit the story as an observing actor, rather than a central narrative focus. Like the gameplay systems, the sparse story invites the player to conjecture about what’s left unsaid in order to discover hidden context and depth.
This design philosophy of obscurity is present in all good Kawazu games—and Legend of Mana is a good Kawazu game—but married with the Mana series’ sense of whimsy and aesthetic it sings. Legend of Mana pulls you into another, wondrous world: one that opens like a flower, revealing more and more hidden depth and magic the more you live in it. It’s a remarkably brave game, willing to be misjudged, but one that matches player inhabitation beat for beat. The more one inhabits it, sinks into its peculiar world and operations, the more one is rewarded with wondrous discovery and finds a home.
FelixSH
(He/Him)
Ah, forgot about them. I needed them in the fight against the dragons of the different elements. They were super powerful, so if you could set them up, you could destroy a boss, iirc. The green dragon worked with status ailments, which destroyed me, so I needed to use summons.
Had completely forgotten that those were a thing.
I played through Legend of Mana nearly 10 years ago. I generally don't care much for the Mana series, but I do like this one (and the first one, FF Adventure, I think). The artstyle is lovely, of course, it's a gorgeous game. I didn't engage with any of the systems much, and stopped after the first ending. But still, the way it all works is fascinating. I did like the weird world with its weird stories. I don't REMEMBER any of them, but still. I had fun with the game, it gave me joy. I should replay it someday.
Violentvixen
(She/Her)
I didn't have a Playstation so didn't play Legend of Mana until quite a while after it came out. Maybe on PS2? Can't recall.
I loved Secret of Mana and imported SD3 so didn't know WTF was happening with this crazy game at first. I ended up buying a strategy guide.
And then after learning that which weapon you have equipped adjusts your level up stats I went down a rabbit hole, for some reason I decided I had to keep my stats as even as possible. Pages of notes to make sure I rotated weapons at certain levels.
This game is bizarre and I love it but I never know what the hell to say when I try to recommend it to someone. It's bonkers.
I loved Secret of Mana and imported SD3 so didn't know WTF was happening with this crazy game at first. I ended up buying a strategy guide.
And then after learning that which weapon you have equipped adjusts your level up stats I went down a rabbit hole, for some reason I decided I had to keep my stats as even as possible. Pages of notes to make sure I rotated weapons at certain levels.
This game is bizarre and I love it but I never know what the hell to say when I try to recommend it to someone. It's bonkers.
Pajaro Pete
(He/Himbo)
Welcome to Legend of Mana, we've got the Capitalist Demon Rabbit, the Horny Centaur Bard, the Lesbian Serial Killer (she is a serial killer and a lesbian), Furry Dragon Knight Zombies, Men! Of! The! Sea!, and Confirmation That If You Start Dating Your Bestie, You Will Absolutely Destroy The Friendgroup.
It isn't quite the same, but it has a similar melancholy vibe as Chrono Cross. There's like this... wistfulness? To it? Or maybe it's just the emptiness of the world and the flutes in the soundtrack.
The Pets are basically worthless as allies, but gosh dang it if there isn't something about having a cute Mana critter running around behind you, whether it be the humble Rabite, Imps or Goblins that both kinda look like Smudge the Cat, or those little lizards that were in Undine's cave in Secret of Mana, it does really emphasize how good the Mana series's enemy designs are.
The blacksmithing/tempering system is utterly deranged. There are like two things they could have done to make it make sense (one is letting the player check what the effect cards actually do and the other is making it so the effect goes onto the item when you add the material instead of going into an invisible waiting room only to pop up the next time you add material to the item), but they said "No, absolutely not." There's a lot of wild stuff you can do with the system, but my god there is no way you're figuring out how to do it on your own.
Combat's real bad, and made much worse by the fact that you can't avoid battles in Legend of Mana (well, not in the original version, in the remaster there's an option for this). This becomes particularly grating in some of the more maze like locales (I remember the final dungeon of the Dragon storyline being infuriating because of this).
Music's real good. Bejeweled City in Ruins is generally considered one of the stand out tracks, but boy oh boy do I love Searching Beyond the Truth, which I think only plays at the end of the Matilda-Irwin storyline.
Anyway stream the Legend of Mana Promise arrangement album!
It isn't quite the same, but it has a similar melancholy vibe as Chrono Cross. There's like this... wistfulness? To it? Or maybe it's just the emptiness of the world and the flutes in the soundtrack.
The Pets are basically worthless as allies, but gosh dang it if there isn't something about having a cute Mana critter running around behind you, whether it be the humble Rabite, Imps or Goblins that both kinda look like Smudge the Cat, or those little lizards that were in Undine's cave in Secret of Mana, it does really emphasize how good the Mana series's enemy designs are.
The blacksmithing/tempering system is utterly deranged. There are like two things they could have done to make it make sense (one is letting the player check what the effect cards actually do and the other is making it so the effect goes onto the item when you add the material instead of going into an invisible waiting room only to pop up the next time you add material to the item), but they said "No, absolutely not." There's a lot of wild stuff you can do with the system, but my god there is no way you're figuring out how to do it on your own.
Combat's real bad, and made much worse by the fact that you can't avoid battles in Legend of Mana (well, not in the original version, in the remaster there's an option for this). This becomes particularly grating in some of the more maze like locales (I remember the final dungeon of the Dragon storyline being infuriating because of this).
Music's real good. Bejeweled City in Ruins is generally considered one of the stand out tracks, but boy oh boy do I love Searching Beyond the Truth, which I think only plays at the end of the Matilda-Irwin storyline.
Anyway stream the Legend of Mana Promise arrangement album!
4-So
Spicy
I was chuffed as fuck when Legend of Mana was released, considering the previous Mana game was from six years and an entire console generation prior (if you were in the U.S). But I'll be damned if I was not annoyed by it. Perhaps unreasonable expectations on my part, thinking I was getting Secret of Mana 2, only to get something decidely not that. As far as the game itself, I have very little memory of it: Brief flashes of artwork, a murky recollection of its music, a map grid where you build the world out, surprisingly easy gameplay, and...that's about it. (I remember more of the hype and pomp surrounding Square's "Summer of Adventure" than about any of those individual games that is not titled "Chrono Cross".)
I do quite like the storybook aspect of the game, and I think Legend of Mana does a much better aesthetic job than another popular Square Enix title that will no doubt show up later in this list, and may not even be "storybook" although I've always processed it as such.
I do quite like the storybook aspect of the game, and I think Legend of Mana does a much better aesthetic job than another popular Square Enix title that will no doubt show up later in this list, and may not even be "storybook" although I've always processed it as such.
I love this weird-ass game, and had it up at #08 on my list. It's interesting the very different experiences people can have with it, though. I played the game enough to see every storyline, build worlds with locations in different places to change their levels and trigger different events, and messed around for hours with all the incredibly obtuse sub-systems - but I honestly had forgotten that the game even had those extra-hard difficulty settings that make mastering or even using those systems remotely necessary, and I'm not sure whether I ever used them. Difficulty wasn't the point for me, "needing" to make something powerful didn't really matter. I was in it for the weird world, which you experience in all these glancing indirect ways, flitting in and out of the lives and dramas of all kinds of wild characters, gathering bits and pieces of information and backstory here and there all in a jumble, gradually putting together a strange, wonderful, melancholy piece of existence.
Not that I jived with all of it. One of the stories, I think the one with the fairies, really leaned into the whole "nobility of suffering" angle which is a philosophy that's like diametrically opposed to everything I believe. But in the end, that's mostly one character in the world's opinions, nothing forcing my avatar to agree with their reasons even if I happen to be taking up their quest for my own reasons. The sheer diversity of character motivations here, which like the rest of the world only appear in disjointed bits and pieces, is part of the draw.
And, of course, it's all wrapped in absolutely gorgeous artwork and one of my top-10 all time soundtracks, you know the drill.
Not that I jived with all of it. One of the stories, I think the one with the fairies, really leaned into the whole "nobility of suffering" angle which is a philosophy that's like diametrically opposed to everything I believe. But in the end, that's mostly one character in the world's opinions, nothing forcing my avatar to agree with their reasons even if I happen to be taking up their quest for my own reasons. The sheer diversity of character motivations here, which like the rest of the world only appear in disjointed bits and pieces, is part of the draw.
And, of course, it's all wrapped in absolutely gorgeous artwork and one of my top-10 all time soundtracks, you know the drill.
Pajaro Pete
(He/Himbo)
While I enjoyed the messiness of the Fairy arc (but to be clear I do not condone the nonsense these characters engage in!!), it's v funny that Matilda gets elevated to the 8th Wisdom, because like, was there really no one else they could have tapped for that job. Was the Fortune Teller in Domina busy. Did the Detective get called away on a case. Was Gilbert too horny for it.
gorha
For the Ylory of Mankind
I had Legend of Mana at #46. The prospect of trying to figure out the blacksmithing system or play with a guide open the whole time has never appealed to me, and as such I've never made a serious attempt at the higher difficulties, but I've done several "first" playthroughs and always had a great time. All three of the main storylines are fantastic, and I love a lot of the minor stories too. I'm sure the stunning art and music do a lot to elevate them, but even aside from that, I think the quality of the writing is well above average.
Imagine Gilbert saying "I am the universe. Away from me, Shadoles." He could never pull it off like Matilda.
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Violentvixen
(She/Her)
Also, Sierra is freaking cool.
Also forgot to note that Visions of Mana, which I generally disliked, had some extremely solid connections/references to Legend of Mana, it was cool.
Also forgot to note that Visions of Mana, which I generally disliked, had some extremely solid connections/references to Legend of Mana, it was cool.
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
I remember initially not liking the game as much, but I eventually cottoned to it. LoM is a lot better than a lot of the stuff we got in the years after it. Also, immaculate vibes all around. The art style, the music... just a tremendous job by SquareSoft at the height of their powers.