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I had a good feeling! Celebrating 40 Years and 108 JRPGs of Destiny

Lokii said:
its placement on this list suggests the game is remembered more for its successes than for invented flaws.
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Lokii said:
45. Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest
Previous Rank: 47
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It definitely moved up a lot in overall positioning. It sort of did and didn't move when it came to my ranking - I had it at #15 in both of my lists. (But that does make it relatively higher in my more recent ranking.)

Daikaiju said:
Mystic Quest 2 when?
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Or at least a HD-2D Remake / Pixel Remaster.
 
It didn't make my list, but that's a testament to the stuff in front of it, not a ding on this game's quality. I think it's a legit great game. Streamlined, yes. You can also quite quickly lose a battle if you get petrified and whatnot, so the battles themselves can have some teeth. It's just that the game is also so forgiving (literal respawn at the start of the fight!) that it mitigates those sometimes unfair deaths.

This is even more apparent to me coming off of Double Moon Densetsu, a Famicom RPG that has no shortage of insta-death enemies, and if your MC dies, even if others are alive, you get a game over. And the game isn't even nice in a Dragon Quest fashion where you keep your progress and lose half your gold, much less what FFMQ does, it's original Final Fantasy "back to your last save with you", and it makes things feel incredibly capricious.

This, though? Actually great, and I don't think the instinct was necessarily misplaced making a "novice" RPG, but I can see why folks recoiled coming off of FFIV, so to genre diehards it felt like a big step back. It's really started to rehab its reputation over the last few years, divorced from the reactive context it was released in and judged on its own merits.
 
Sarge said:
I can see why folks recoiled coming off of FFIV, so to genre diehards it felt like a big step back.
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Weird. coming off FFIV myself, i found it a nice palette cleanser. Heck, my dad was a grognard of the highest order, and he enjoyed it too.
 
FF4 was my first RPG - not actually but I'll save that story for another time - and I was absolutely jonesing for another one, so I was happy to have whatever Mystic Quest was after devouring FF4. It was different but I just took that in stride since I was 12 and had no preconceived notions yet.

I replayed MQ maybe a decade ago now and it still holds up. It had more instant death encounters than I remembered but you can simply restart the fight, a mechanic I wish more games would consider.
 
Having recently played it to completion based upon its earlier appearance on this list, I can shout out Metaphor Refantazio for having a one-click restart any fight button.

Also, similar to Metaphor, I have now started a replay of MQ prompted by this list appearance. I don't think I've played MQ since the year it came out. It's pretty good!
 
I had Dragon Quarter at 18. The tightly designed dungeons, complete with fixed, non-respawning enemies, which you fight in a battle system that's more "X-Com lite" than Dragon Quest, are its greatest strengths. I'm surprised to see the comparisons to roguelikes; I think of procedural generation as the defining feature of a roguelike, so Dragon Quarter never felt like one at all to me. And while restarting in DQ can definitely make things easier, it's not necessary by any means - well, unless you get hung up on trying to beat the superboss or get the highest rank. That might not be possible on a first run, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was, either. Anyway, it's great. Breath of Fire as a series improved with every game, but DQ was the biggest leap forward by far, and it's too bad they never made another one. The BoF team did go on to make Megaman X Command Mission, which plays kind of like what a more conservative followup to BoFIV might have been. It's a decent game in its own right, but Dragon Quarter is their magnum opus.
 
Daikaiju said:
Weird. coming off FFIV myself, i found it a nice palette cleanser. Heck, my dad was a grognard of the highest order, and he enjoyed it too.
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Kudos to y'all, then! Much more open-minded than a lot of folks I knew. :)

Weirdly, I had the game for years, but didn't actually play all the way through it until 2018. So it's not even nostalgia bias really talking here.
 
MQ was on my list too. I feel like the only thing really spectacular about it is the soundtrack (though as Purple pointed out the enemy sprites are also *extremely* good at the things they were designed to do), but the whole package is just a good time. It’s fun to see the FF formula tweaked to a different, sort of parallel universe perspective, with different goals and different strengths.

Meanwhile I *wish* Dragon Quarter were on my list. Like many folks I bounced off it back in the day, a combination of not quite managing to adapt to the different sort of experience it was presenting and I think just straight up literally not understanding exactly how the save system worked, and I’ve never managed to get back to it since. But it looks so cool. And the soundtrack has some of my favorite tracks ever despite the fact I never even made it to most of ‘em in the game.
 
RE: the MQ soundtrack, I am also a big fan, and an even bigger fan of the same composer's work from a year prior, which has a similar sound and which I still hope may show up on this list.
 
FFMQ has a randomizer. I've never given it a proper spin, but last year I was compelled to make a few player sprites that you can use for yourself:

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Lokii said:
The result is a rather interesting game, one that doesn’t really play like anything else, even its closest sibling SaGa 3.
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I do wonder if my kid brain picked up on any kind of connection between the battle presentation in MQ and playing Final Fantasy Legend on my Gameboy. Probably just a "this is how Final Fantasy can look sometimes" thing, but it is a pretty neat lineage.
 
gorha said:
The BoF team did go on to make Megaman X Command Mission
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Sarge said:
this team would go on to produce an absolute banger with Rudra no Hihou.
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(Treasure of the Rudras)

Those are some interesting pedigrees.

gorha said:
I'm surprised to see the comparisons to roguelikes; I think of procedural generation as the defining feature of a roguelike, so Dragon Quarter never felt like one at all to me.
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If we're going to get all technical and pedantic then it's really rogue-lites which share similiarities with Dragon Quarter since they both include game mechanics where you can become stronger by playing and dying/failing then starting over.
 
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Final Fantasy Mystic Quest was the first Final Fantasy I played. IIRC it was also priced less. I think $40 new compared to $60 to $80 for new games. I remember liking it, not loving it.

A later FF title (which I assume is coming later) cemented my love of FF and JRPGs.

Compared to Amano art, the cover is lacking. But removed from that high standard, I like the simplified cover art and the sword forming part of the Q in Quest.

My brother does not really play video games, but he loves VGM. Final Fantasy Mystic Quest is among his favorite game soundtracks.
 
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44. Paper Mario
Intelligent Systems, 2000: N64 Points: 351 Votes: 9
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After doing the impossible and successfully translating Super Mario Brothers of all things into a JRPG, you’d think that Square and Nintendo would be gung-ho on a sequel. But all of a sudden the companies weren’t on good terms and the project got first shuffled to HAL then to Intelligent Systems, loyal partners who wouldn’t stab one in the back just because Sony flashed a shiny wafer. And so the follow up to Square’s Secret of the Stars turned out to be a radically different game in all respects. Aesthetics, design, ambition, play-feel, the very bedrock philosophy of Paper Mario’s expression and character all sit at odd angles to the previous game, and would not only serve to usher Mario roleplaying into the next console generation and beyond, but would eventually serve as one of the three pillars of the Mario RPG superstructure.

It’s interesting that while Square’s game did RPGify Mario with aplomb and accuracy, it still feels like Square inserting Mario into a RPG-shaped hole. Whereas—despite its avant-guard artstyle—Paper Mario feels much more like a natural evolution of the classic platformers into a new genus. This is not to suggest that Square didn’t pull from and honor many Marioisms in their conception of the Mushroom Kingdom but Paper Mario feels much more in lockstep with the IP’s trajectory and ineffable character.

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Part of this comes from the presentation, which, by adopting the paper cutout conceit and side-view, live-performance viewpoint, forces the action into a horizontal flatness that harkens more closely to the vision of Mario we know and love, rather than Square’s forward-looking pre-rendered isometricisms. Another part comes from the direct approach to story that frames things in a more Marioish type of quest to defeat Bowser and rescue Peach, than Square’s pulling of these characters into more epic postures.

But perhaps the strongest reason is how Intelligent Systems’ reimagined RPG combat replicated the feel of Mario’s limited hop and bop verb-set with more fidelity than even Square’s famous “timed hits” managed. Paper Mario continues the tradition of action commands, and they carry a significant amount of the game-feel, but the numbers are what really do it. By reducing the integers involved to their smallest expressions the game gives a sense of back and forth swingyness and impact that mirrors the type of jumping and maneuvering interactions that characterize 2D platformers. Additionally, the game reveals an elegance and depth in combat that relies on very small numbers. When the increase of a stat by even one unit can have dramatic, even life-threatening, consequences suddenly those numbers mean a whole lot more. Where in a Final Fantasy a new piece of gear might raise attack by two dozen integers to negligible, even imperceptible effect, in Paper Mario an attack increase by 1 feels like Mario vaulted to a whole new damage-dealing pinnacle. Then add on partners, badges, and special star powers, and a battle system that appears at first paper thin is revealed to have hugely surprising and satisfying amounts of depth.

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In fact, that describes the game pretty thoroughly: thin and overly mannered at first glance, but full of surprising depth and player expression. Small but large, stylized but expressive, simple but expansive, radical but traditional, Paper Mario is a game that opens up like a cleverly compacted origami objet d’art and it's no surprise that it’s spawned a whole new facet to the Mario Empire.
 
I was so worried when this was about to release. I thought, "how on earth are they going to pull off a Mario RPG without SquareSoft?" And yet they did. Was it better? Was it worse? Really, neither, just different, and still a blast. It's my favorite of this series to this day, full of whimsy and as stated, more depth than you'd expect. I'd say it tops the N64 library for my tastes.

Anyway, it was my #20. Good times, good times. I should probably replay it here now that N64 interest seems to be peaking with multiple viable FPGA-based N64 clones on the market.
 
Paper Mario has an intense sense of style, and I'm not just talking about the then-novel technique of mixing 2D and 3D as part of intentionally clashing styles between characters and environments. The storybook concept, with really elevated presentation of the framing devices, draws attention to the regularity of the game's structure, in a way that's fairly common in action games but rare in RPGs.

I'm talking about the huge flashy chapter start and end bookends, which make it obvious what part of the game you're in, and by extension why it is that identical player actions result in different story events playing out.

RPGs are a complex genre and they're usually indicated for people who are already familiar with games. I've read enough interviews on Shmuplations to know that Nintendo's major creative staff, in particular, held that opinion in the 90s. The concept of an introductory RPG was on their minds even with Super Mario RPG (which had a commercial where they sing about what "RPG" stands for), but Paper Mario makes the foundational concepts not just approachable but explicit, even at times didactic. And in such a charming way!

The interrelation of story and gameplay is one of the foundational elements of RPGs, and by being very blunt about that aspect, Paper Mario serves as the same kind of introduction to RPGs as Super Mario does to platformers.
 
My number 18. I played it somewhat recently, around Christmas. It still looks beautiful, probably the best-looking game on the console, just because the artstyle is so timeless, vibrant and colorful. Having monsters from the regular games as party members, drawn a bit differently than the rest, is great. I love having a little, actually nice goomba with me, or a boo. The minimalist stats are a great thing, with defense 1 being a big hurdle to overcome at the start. The little, recurring baby koopa (I think, already forgot), who gets stronger and stronger is a lot of fun, and surprisingly tough. The badge system is maybe one of my favourite equipment systems in all rpgs. So wonderfully customizable. And it is also just really funny.

I haven't played the other...three(?) N64 rpgs, but if it's true that they aren't great, the console at least went out with a banger with this one.
 
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43. Suikoden III
Konomi, 2002: PS2 Points: 353 Votes: 8 Previous rank: 43
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The ambitious Suikoden III is the last game directed by series creator Yoshitaka Murayama and as such serves as a conclusion to Suikoden’s main narrative spine. All Suikodens focus on a historic, large-scale conflict, but where I and II feature rebel armies taking on evil empires, Suikoden III attempts to present a more nuanced situation where conflicting personal, cultural, and historical perspectives are the fuels of war rather than the presence of a monomaniacal tyrant.

In pursuing the theme of perspective, Suikoden III splits the narrative across several main characters. These protagonists belong to the various factions involved in the war; all are heroic and noble figures, yet all come into conflict because of their limited viewpoints. By allowing the player to shift between viewpoints the game creates a Rashomon effect where arbitrary events or callous character behavior are revealed to be sympathetically motivated when viewed through a different set of eyes.

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And while the three primary protagonists are eventually united against the secret powers manufacturing the war, the game also offers—as a reward for recruiting all 108 Stars of Destiny—a chapter where you play from the perspective of the game’s antagonist. This character is never not in conflict with the other united factions, and yet is presented with as sympathetic an eye and as noble a motivation as the heroes. And while this character does monstrous things (like starting a war) it's hard to label them evil as such. The game goes out of its way to challenge the notion that truth, and the moral distinctions which it defines, cannot be understood by any one fixed viewpoint. Rather, it is those who can put aside prejudices that gain access to clear vision and understanding. Additionally, putting aside prejudices naturally fosters a practical harmony between people and nations (and improves one’s cool castle headquarters as well).

In detailing the antagonist’s motivations, Suikoden III also resolves some of the long-standing mysteries of the series’ interconnected world that were introduced as far back as the very beginning of Suikoden I. This also gives the game a sense of finality, a feeling that was reinforced when Konami chose to set the next game in a new part of the world with very few connections to the previous games’ settings. It must also be noted that while the game does resolve some long-standing mysteries, Murayama teased us by bringing back Yuber but didn’t touch on anything to do with his immortal conflict with Pesmerga, and gave him a m’lady fedora to boot.

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Suikoden would never be the same after this game. Murayama’s dedication to interconnectedness gave an auteur’s touch to the first three games that could not be repeated without him (though Suikoden V came close). That’s not to suggest the following games are deficient. But they are of a different character. And when one thinks of Suikoden, one is inevitably thinking of the first three games and the detailed, interweaving history of a continent that their narrative of wars and redemption depicts. Funnily enough, it’s Murayama’s unique perspective that gave these games their truth—their core viewpoint that sets them apart, and equal to, the other major JRPG series of the era. Plus, Murayama’s perspective included a part in Suikoden III where you play from a dog’s perspective, and that alone makes it one to be treasured.
 
Never played it (or any of its predecessors or successors for that matter), but I do know that silver-haired knight lady is an all-time character design despite her seeming simplicity. Always stuck with me. Maybe that says more about me than her design though.
 
Suikoden 3 is good if a bit repetitive in places. When it's on it's  on, though, and the reveal of who the main antagonist is is one of the coolest moments in all of video games.
 
Geddoe, my beloved.

ETA:
For posterity, my Suikoden 3 love letter from TT 2.0:
Suikoden III is my favourite Suikoden game...

Suikoden 3 is just oozing with charm and love out of every orifice. Sure, the early PS2 visuals haven't aged the best, as contrasted to SII featuring some of the most amazing spritework every crafted, but the love with which they were treated still shines through.

And it all start with this amazing intro:

That shit gave me chills the first time that I watched it, and it still does all these years later.

Yes, the game does have you traipsing through a lot of the same environments, especially in the polarizing Thomas chapters, which most closely mirror classic Suikoden play, but it does that in service to the narrative, which takes that silly idea that FFVI tried with multiple branching choices to pursue in whatever order you'd like and runs with it. But here, those choices have a lot more impact (culminating with one final very important choice near the end), because the different chapters intersect liberally and you only get pieces of the greater picture. Depending upon your order, you might view certain scenes very differently when you first encounter them! They frequently pit the main characters against each other in interesting ways, and those main characters are, importantly, all great, with their own histories and motivations that organically and sometimes tragically lead to these confrontations. You even get to take control of the villains by the end and view events from their perspective!

...

Another way in which Suikoden III really excels is as fanservice to fans of the series, and well, that's certainly me! It gives some of the deepest hints we get as to the overarching series narrative, and the scenes in the theatre at your base where you can cast characters from this game as characters from the other games (with them all being terrible actors in different hilarious ways), even having some people play themselves and then react to that accordingly, is just so fantastic and wonderful.

I know that the battle system (both the party battles and the tactical battles) rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, and I absolutely understand why. Gamers, and RPG players in particular, hate having control taken away from them, and this game does just that, with you issuing vague orders to pairs and having those pairs execute them. It grates on people in the same way that the final chapter of Dragon Quest IV does with its AI, but, much like that game, I find that it generally just quietly gets out of the way and works fine 99% of the time if you don't worry about it and helps to speed up gameplay. As for the tactical battles, I honestly felt like the more full-fledged tactical system in SII was a poor fit, and think the lighter abstract set of nodes implemented here is a good compromise between II's system and I's rock-scissors-paper.

I dunno, I'm rambling now. I love Suikoden III a lot. It's not my favourite RPG, but it's my favourite RPG of this century, and that's what we're talking about here. I love the criss-crossing narratives, I love the characters, I love the humour, I love all the stupid fan-service-- I love the love. I even love the big thematic/mechanic/pacing shift that is the Thomas chapters.

In conclusion: Geddoe is my waifu.
 
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I have one and two. I beat one over a decade ago now. The 3rd is one I've never got around to. Maybe one day I can rectify that.
 
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