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I had a good feeling! Celebrating 40 Years and 108 JRPGs of Destiny

I'm saving Nexus for a rainy day. It's the one mainline Etrian I've not finished/played (well, except for the Untolds, I guess, but I like those less than the originals).

Anyway. Lokii covered the main points - Etrian Odyssey III is also my favorite in the series. It got me and my best friend to write fanfiction about our parties - not linking them because they're amateurish at best lmao - but the party building mechanics are so rich in EO3 that we just got really attached to our guilds. EO3 also has the best music in the series in my opinion, as well.

EO3 was my #5 overall, and tbh that feels possibly too low. It is a fantastic game.
 
Imma let you finish, but I actually think that EOV eats III's lunch as far as getting wet and wild with weird class design goes, and maybe even overshot the mark in that regard. However, it also marks the point where seemingly more and more fans just didn't get around to playing it. EO3 was my favourite EO when I played it, and it's always been TT's favourite, so I'm actually surprised that the gap between it and 4 isn't wider. They're all good dogs, though, including the apparently underplayed Nexus. I think the world is ready for a new Etrian Oddysey to do something different yet again.
 
I remember V having some annoying stratums, at least in comparison to other games in the series. Though even then, I had a great time with it!
 
This is kind of a surprise to me, as 1 and 4 are the only ones that ranked in prevoous lists for which they were eligible.
 
I have only played to completion Etrian Odysseys 1 and 4, but I have played all of the original games. I voted for just EO1 in my list, but it's because I wanted to only include 1 of them. 1, 3 and 4 are probably all about as good to me, then 5 and Nexus below that, and I guess 2 makes the bottom.

I guess I'm surprised that Nexus got no votes.
But I also haven't, you know, made time for it either.
The thing about Nexus is it came out while I still hadn't finished EO5, so I was already not quite "fresh" enough to stick with another EO, but funnily enough I ended up playing Nexus for longer than 5. But from my recollection, Nexus didn't have as much going for it from a setting/story/premise standpoint compared to any of the other games. It was a wonderful playground for party building, to be sure.
 
After loving the first Etrian Odyssey despite some jankiness, I had found its first sequel to be... well, still a pretty good game in its own right, but a bit disappointing. The classes were heavily rebalanced, but if anything it had more classes that were hard to justify including in a party, and I thought the dungeon designs were a bit weaker, with a lot of symmetrical floors.

So, when EOIII was coming out, I at first wasn't sure whether I even wanted to play it. By this time, Sega's 7th Dragon was out, directed by Kazuya Niinou, the creator of Etrian Odyssey, so I knew he was long gone from Atlus, and it seemed like the series was declining without him. I ended up buying it anyway once I saw that they were going with all new classes instead of trying again to make the ones from the original balanced, but I viewed it as a sort of last chance for EO to stand as a series instead of a single great game. And I'm so glad I did - EOIII ended up being far better than either of the previous games. The new classes were absolutely the right decision. The setting is great - the swashbuckling flavor giving way to the eldritch horror of the deep sea as the game goes on - and the branching story is cool for replays, although, as with a lot of DS RPGs, I've never been able to bring myself to overwrite its single save file. Sea quests were fun, and some of them even had little episodic stories about other guilds, which did more to sell the idea that there were other adventurers out there with you than anything else in the series. It really is a wonderful game.

EOIII was #17 on my list. I had EOV higher, all the way up at #2, but I'm happy nonetheless to see the third game settle as the series high point here. I wasn't really expecting to see any of them rank above the original, so III & IV making it this high is a pleasant surprise.
 
I can't say much about this, but it's definitely a series I should jump into at some point now that I have a bit more WRPG appreciation (I know it's not a WRPG, but it's obviously Wizardry-coded).

But really, I just need an excuse to drop this banger again.

 
I haven’t finished Nexus and am still occasionally plinking away at it, so I didn’t vote for it - but to me it’s the first of the maximalist EOs (after 3 and 4) to actually work for me. 3 to my preferences is the worst of the series besides the Untold games! I am aware why people like it, but it’s the exact same set of reasons I don’t haha
 
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46. Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
Capcom, 2002: PS2 Points: 336 Votes: 9 Previous Rank: 18​

Dragon Quarter: the game so good it killed its series. It was too different, too ambitious, too innovative. All to its benefit as a work of creative expression, but all to its doom as a commercial product. If the game came out these days it would be a darling of Steam, luxuriating in its “Overwhelmingly Positive” rating, and bolstered by word of mouth. However, in the PS2 era only die-hard JRPG enthusiasts and established Breath of Fire fans were primed to give it consideration, and two-thirds of those were driven away by its deviation from the previous games and its extreme mechanics.

Foolish. Foolish. For those deviations and extremities are what make Dragon Quarter such a compelling, singular, and moving experience. It’s a strange hybrid game, a sort of strategic dungeon crawl with JRPG storytelling elements sprinkled in. Whereas the earlier Breath of Fire games were straight up fantasy narratives about animal-themed racial tribes and the powerful Dragon Clan that walks among them, Dragon Quarter drops all of that established thematic and brand mortar for a dour sci-fi dystopia. You play as Ryu, a low-class operative toiling in the deepest parts of a vast underground shelter centuries after some unspecified disaster has ruined the surface. After a chance encounter with a mysterious waif named Nia, to whom the stale subterranean air is poisonous, Ryu begins an anabasis to the surface which will topple the shelter’s power hierarchy and unleash the power of the old gods back into the world—but mostly consists of navigating tight industrial passageways and clearing out the hostile mutants within.

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Dragon Quarter features a number of unique and innovative features. Battles do not take place on a separate screen, but in the active 3D environment where the layout has large strategic consideration, both within battle as positioning and area of effect are impacted by the scenery, but outside as well, as the player can lay traps, set bait, and manufacture ambushes to deal damage or gain advantage before the battle actually begins. In fact the meat of the game is doing just this, exploring hostile environments, and very carefully setting up encounter situations to facilitate progress. Because Dragon Quarter is not an easy game, its mobs are dangerous, rash decisions are punished, and saving is restricted. It’s a unique expression of the dungeon crawler, one far away from Wizardry-type specificities that mark the genre.

Another odd feature is that early in the game Ryu gains dragon power that lets him belt out a fire blast that can wipe out any enemy in one shot. Simply hold down the breath attack and the enemy’s HP melts away. However, every second of its use increases a counter, and should it ever max out the game ends. This creates an interesting dynamic. A given boss or surprise out-of-depth encounter might tempt one to bust out the nuclear option, but doing so might put the player in an even tighter spot later on. And the psychological weight of the counter always on screen does a lot of tonal work in creating an atmosphere of pressure.

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For all its difficulty, the game isn’t cruel, and offers some release valves. At any point the player can start over in a sort of New Game+ mode that brings over some items and experience from the previous run, resets the dragon counter, and unlocks new story scenes based on the dragon counter’s rating. Players at the time didn’t like it, but it's an elegant bit of design that encourages the player to get their feet wet, experiment and learn the flow of the game, max out the dragon counter in a blaze of glory, and then come back for round two with more knowledge and mastery. This is a game that refuses the typical JRPG’s promise of safe, steady accumulation and instead turns limited power, tactical caution, defeat, and beginning again into dramatic language and visceral experience.

You see these kinds of wild design swings and hostile elements much more frequently these days, where twenty years of design progress and the indie boom have widened the doors on what kind of experiences are tolerated and appreciated. But in 2002 this kind of thing was too much and the game was destined to gamestore bargain bins. A passionate fanbase sang its praises, but the game failed to attract the attention hoped for and Capcom put a lid on Breath of Fire forever (and don’t try to bring up BoF 6. There ain’t no monorail and there never was). It feels like one of the great losses of JRPG history. Breath of Fire was never a premier series, but of the five games three of them are bona fide classics: beautiful, touching, innovative, craftworks. For the series to end because it got too good is bittersweet tragedy. But, at least the series went out with a dragon’s blaze of glory.
 
WHOA that's really high for a game I always thought very few people have played. I gotta get on that!
 
It's always bothered me slightly that the game's title has 5 and 1/4 in it --- I keep wanting to call it Breath of Fire 4. (maybe they should have called it Dragon Fifth)
 
WHOA that's really high for a game I always thought very few people have played. I gotta get on that!
TT seems to be one of the few places to find multiple die-hard fans of BoF 5 : D/4. (But I guess less so in 3.0 than in 2.0 which is probably why it dropped so many places.)
 
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I’ve put a few hours into it a few times but always seem to lose interest. I didn’t do myself any favors by looking at a FAQ that tells you to just grind away using the dragon counter and reset until the game is easy.
 
Dragon Quarter was seriously ahead of its time... which is funny because it also reminds me of Koudelka in a lot of ways which... by the transitive property was really, really ahead of its time. So... people should be due to come around on it?
 
I had this at #8. Like a lot of these games I played it a long time ago and don’t remember all the details, but I think I had one reset, possibly quite early on, then played it through. Gameplay wise the counter seems like something that would stress me out but I don’t remember having a big problem. I like that enemies don’t respawn so you get what experience you get. The thing that pushes the game up my list I think is the atmosphere - this dingy dark little world, the nastiness of the social system, but also the art style of the game. The characters have a somewhat flat affect that’s probably as much due to technical limitations as deliberate choice but I think leaves the emotions of the situations up to interpretation in a way that works. There’s a cutscene early on (starting at about 1:22 in this longplay) that I remember really impressing me. That worm Bosch tells Ryu his plan for getting ahead by taking credit for Ryu’s work as they guard an armoured train, then they’re attacked by a mysterious figure. Bosch hides while Ryu fights back, the enemy disappears but then reappears on the tracks in front of the train and blows them up. To be honest it doesn’t impress me as much now as it did two decades ago but it’s still good stuff.
 
Number 36 on my list. I like what they did here a lot. Btw, I played the European version, which, iirc, changes the ng+ mechanic such that you can only do so a certain amount of times. Which is a weird decision. I think you get something in return? I dunno. This might also be wrong, it's been a long time since I played it.
In any case, if you play careful, you won't really need it. I made it to the final area without too much trouble (if you are really careful, you can often lure singular enemies away from groups, iirc - it's been so long, I forgot the details), but then got wrecked by the bosses. I only made it through, by finally using my dragon powers for them, probably just making it before the counter was full. And even with those, the bosses were brutally hard, I needed a few tries.
It's been too long for more, I don't remember much else. I did enjoy what I played a lot, though.

Oh, right, I did like that they looked at the whole idea of dragons being dangerous for the whole world, way too powerful, from a slightly different angle (but then, I guess the angle changed in every game). But it is certainly essential, as this is the theme of the whole series.
 
BoF5 was not the BoF sequel I wanted. And the first time I played it, I really couldn't wrap my head around it either and bounced off it so hard. And it being so weird basically killed the franchise.

But god damn is it a great game. It dared to break conventions and subvert expectations in ways a game would never ever dare to do today. And once you embrace the game's unique design, there's a lot of really awesome, interesting things it does regarding the game's structure and how it tells its story. It's not my favorite BoF, but it deserves a solid spot on this list for sure.
 
Respect for breaking conventions - it's a neat idea - but it really wasn't for me. I think it's a bit like Majora's Mask in that I like a lot of the surrounding bits, but the structure of the quest itself just doesn't appeal to me. Folks just weren't ready for the series incorporating rogue-like elements, and to be honest, the genre still and its many offshoots tend to stymie me even today. But I do understand the appeal.
 
This was my vote #40. I played it when it was new, but I don't remember if I really learned to understand it then, or if it took some time. I definitely hadn't played a roguelike before, so that was a learning curve to understand why restarting was Fine Actually.
 
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45. Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest
Square, 1992: SNES Points: 338 Votes: 11 Previous Rank: 47​

What the heck is this doing here? The bad game? The worst bad game??

Everyone knows the story: in the ‘90s Square liked to make good games but hated the idea of Americans enjoying them. So in revenge they dumbed down Final Fantasy II, financed a whole new studio to make Secret of Evermore instead of localizing Secret of Mana 2, and, as the ultimate insult, produced Mystic Quest, the rudimentary baby game for unsophisticated toddlers.

Such was the sentiment at the time, and for a long time after.

But is Mystic Quest so bad? It is a simple game by design. The true history is that Square wanted to succeed in the West. Japanese audiences ate up JRPGs and if they could spark the same fire in America and Europe then the returns would be massive. Yet sales failed to materialize for games that did gangbusters back home and it wasn’t clear why. Though probably due to lack of cultural onboarding the genre received in Japan with Shonen Jump’s promotion of Dragon Quest, the powers-that-be at Square landed on the excuse that their games were too complicated and slow for the action-hungry audiences of America. Thus their stratagem of molding games to chase this perceived market.

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With Mystic Quest Square went all-out, designing a game specifically for the West that would serve as a genre introduction for younger players. Stats would be simplified, exploration limited, story streamlined, and action elements incorporated. The result is a rather interesting game, one that doesn’t really play like anything else, even its closest sibling SaGa 3. For all its pared-down mechanics and long-standing reputation, it's not so much simplistic as streamlined. The game isn’t lacking, is what I mean. It still has that certain je ne sais quoi that defined Square’s golden era; and a craftsmanship that makes it an interesting and pleasant revisit—even when divorced from nostalgia—in this day and age.

There are a number of reasons why, a quantity of quality aspects which keep it fresh. One is the interesting choices that Square made to simplify JRPG conventions such as the concision of stats, magic, items, and gear; or transforming dungeons into clever mazes via the design conceit of enemy encounter roadblocks. Another is the irreverent tone the game has. Because of the truncated story sections and a rush to get the player into the action as soon as possible, Mystic Quest plays out almost like a loving parody of the more self-serious mainline Final Fantasies. The setup is FF cut to the core: evil monsters have stolen the four elemental crystals and now the earth is withering away unless the prophesied hero shows up to stop them. You play as Benjamin, who shows up to stop them, and then you stop them. The game isn’t knowingly satirizing the genre, but the lighthearted way that it riffs on the basic premise gives it a fun, irrelevant attitude as characterized by Benjamin’s perpetual “it’s a living” shrug.

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But paramount to these is its quality as a charmer. This is a game—once taken on its own terms and removed from any perceived slights from Japanese CEOs—that’s hard to hate. Aesthetically, it lands in that early SNES style that’s so pleasing to the eye. Like Paladin’s Quest, Dragon Quest V, or Final Fantasy IV, it sports a bold style half informed by the power of 16-bits and half informed by lingering assumptions developed under the previous generation’s technical restrictions. Additionally, the game’s a sounder as well as a looker, with an infamous heavy-metal soundtrack rightly celebrated still. And then there’s all the ineffable charming details like the elementally divided world map, Benjamin’s jumping shenanigans, the notable way enemy sprites degrade as they take damage, or the wonderful overflow bug that sees the final boss fall to a single healing spell.

There’s an irony inherent in Mystic Quest. It’s just a great, streamlined, amuse-bouche of a JRPG hailing from the golden era, made by the genre’s greatest developer, yet it came saddled with a reputation as the worst, most-insulting, laughing stock of a bad idea. However, the very forces that engendered that reputation were the same ones that make the game what it is, and give it the unique charming character that it has. I don’t know if its seen a full reassessment, now that we’re so far from the circumstances that both formed and burdened it, but certainly its placement on this list suggests the game is remembered more for its successes than for invented flaws.
 
transforming dungeons into clever mazes via the design conceit of enemy encounter roadblocks.
And also by turning weapons into "keys" for opening up different paths through the dungeons in a Zelda-esque way.

streamlined
Another nice way that FF:MQ did this was with its battlefields that gave you a quick way to grind levels without having to deal with random encounters. Mystic Quest did have a lot of nice player-friendly design ideas that unfortunately have not been repeated more often in other RPGs.
 
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It's a good game. My only real quibbles are how easy it is to whiff even late game and some pretty annoying status effects.
Being able to top out on Seeds is what keeps the endgsame from being a slog.
 
I was really pleasantly surprised by how well Mystic Quest holds up when revisiting my who SNES library recently. Also the soundtrack is just great and people really do not talk about the excellent enemy art with the damage states nearly enough.

Like if you are running a fantasy RPG through a D&D tabletop and you need some minis that read really well when you zoom way out? Nowhere will you ever find a finer centaur. Or redcap. Or... damn near anything that's in here.
 
To this day, when I see my younger brother, which is sadly only about once a year, we will start humming this tune, as a kind of informal greeting.

Great game, terrific soundtrack.
 
I ate this game up when it came out, but I don't think I've ever really cared to revisit it in a very long time. I think I still have my manual. I wonder how much it planted the seeds for kid Yangus to get into Lufia 2 and Wild ARMs...
 
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