That's where I stopped playing, not coincidentally.
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I had a good feeling! Celebrating 40 Years and 108 JRPGs of Destiny
- Thread starter Lokii
- Start date
4-So
Spicy
I got a good 10 hours or so into XBC before I realized it wasn't for me. I just found the combat to be a little too tedious. Or perhaps slow is a better word than tedious. Not a bad game by any means, just not one that I vibed with enough to keep going. (Quite enjoy its sequels, tho.)
I vibed with Xenoblade pretty hard, I just got a little burned out trying to 100% it, and then ultimately distracted by a new shiny. Did they come out with a Switch 2 patch for it yet? I kinda wanna load it back up and see if I can resume where I left off.
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
Story of my gaming life, haha.
That means you own a New 3DS - congrats on your investment, it seems to be paying off.
61. Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
AlphaDream, 2003: GBA Points: 265 Votes: 7
If I were one of Johnny’s Top 50 Time Travelers and went back to inform my child self that one day there would be thirteen distinct Super Mario-based RPGs I doubt that I would believe me; even after I proved myself legitimate by showing me my futuristic “Pocket Telephone” or predicting an eclipse or some shit. That gaming’s premier platform mascot of all characters should be mixed up in enough menu-based adventures to rival the number of Final Fantasies or Dragon Quests would quicken the heartbeat of any Epic Center-loving child but it hardly seems credible. And yet here we are, neck-deep in Mario Playing Games.
All the MPGs involve some rudimentary platforming—and of course incorporate Toad’s invention of the “timed hit” in their battle systems—but AlphaDream’s Mario & Luigi series immeshes them far more than the others. By taking the traditional conception of platforming and molding it into the pseudo-3D space of JRPGs’ bird’s-eye-view, AlphaDream is able to craft twisty and entwining knots of level design which makes traversal easily enjoyable all by itself. But then add the energetic hops and bobs of combat and it's easy to see why Superstar Saga spawned a long lineage.
The thing about the battle system is the allure of the perfect game. Since every enemy’s attacks can be dodged with precise timing it's possible to complete the adventure without taking a single hit. All you need is a quick eye and nerves of steel. Even if this kind of punishing challenge run isn’t a player’s goal, the possibility of it still entices. There’s a call to mastery throughout the game, every encounter an invitation to perform. There’s a kind of rhythm that builds up through a M&L playthrough as you become familiar with the pulse of battle, and one that subtly changes with each new enemy type. This is compelling engagement and adds some real danger as every miss comes not only with HP loss but also a chunk of dignity.
I also must make special note of Superstar Saga’s depiction of Luigi. Luigi’s Mansion went a long way towards establishing Luigi’s character and personality, but Superstar Saga deepened and defined it. Superstar Saga has this wry tone, a peculiar smirking vibe, that is still present in the rest of the series but is here more raw and sincere. Through it, Luigi is turned into a wonderful comedic character, a perpetual underdog shadowed by Mario’s celebrity, a plaything of cruel fate destined to always land face-first and never to be remembered, but via that terminal position as player two he achieves a sort of nobility and quiet heroism that makes him Mario’s equal. Pretty good stuff for cartoon slapstick.
MarPGs?
Mario Playing Role Electronic Games, or MPREG for short.
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
That's a good point about Luigi - despite always playing second fiddle, the fact that mechanically he contributes as much as Mario in battle shows that he, too, is a capable hero even if he doesn't appear as such.
Mario & Luigi has always felt pretty uneven to me (although never bad!), but this first entry is great. It's a lot more challenging than you'd expect, too - I remember some of those final battles being quite the test of reflexes and timing. It just missed making it onto my list, but I voted for another in the series that I expect will show up.
Mario & Luigi has always felt pretty uneven to me (although never bad!), but this first entry is great. It's a lot more challenging than you'd expect, too - I remember some of those final battles being quite the test of reflexes and timing. It just missed making it onto my list, but I voted for another in the series that I expect will show up.
gorha
For the Ylory of Mankind
I seem to have trouble remembering that Mario & Luigi exists for some reason. I bought it when it was new, played it and liked it enough to replay it immediately, which I almost never do, but I haven't touched it since that second playthrough, never tried any of the sequels and didn't think of it when making my list. In any case, it's a great game.
Superstar Saga was a lot of fun. I don't normally go for turn-based RPGs that have timed hits but the Mario RPGs have always been an exception for me- they tend to know better than others how to make it work.
If you want to prove you are from the future, predicting an eclipse would be a bad method because they are easy for astronomers to predict far ahead of time because the movements of the earth, sun and moon are very well understood at this point. You can literally go on Wikipedia and find out that in the year 2200, there will be a solar eclipse over the Atlantic Ocean.
Something about the Mario & Luigi games just doesn't do it for me. I played the first one at a time when I had a bad sinus infection and I was medicated out of my mind, so I have very few memories of it other than like a dozen a lot of one-off minigames where a pair of red and green NPCs give you a verbose tutorial. I got the sequel later and I just couldn't handle the increased complexity of having four party members instead of two. When I came back to Superstar Saga years later, I bounced off because it felt like every battle was an ordeal. I'm willing to chalk it up to "skill issue,' however.
gorha
For the Ylory of Mankind
I know it's been a bit since Koudelka was featured in this thread, but I played through it over the past week, partly inspired by its inclusion here, and yeah, its place is well deserved. Really creepy atmosphere, some of the best voice acting of the era - these are strengths I was expecting it to have. It also has a pretty great battle system, which I wasn't expecting. You have complete freedom to build your party however you want, but just the stats that each character has at level 1 made it clear that Koudelka is the black mage, Edward is the fighter and James is the white mage. The tactical movement seemed superfluous at first - Fire Emblem this ain't - but the first time a monster killed Edward and stepped over his corpse to prevent me from reviving him was magical. I can barely imagine a better way to create a horror scenario with JRPG combat. I guess it wasn't that well received at the time, but a rerelease on modern platforms would do really well, I think, with "PS1 horror" being an aesthetic people are nostalgic for now and the game's only real flaw, poor performance due to PS1 load times, being easily fixed. It's too bad whoever has the rights to Sacnoth's games nowadays either isn't interested in releasing them or, more likely, doesn't even know they have them.
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I'm pretty sure I played this one but have no memories of it that aren't conflated with Bowser's Inside Story, to the point where maybe I only played that one. But I did like it (I think)!
60. Shin Megami Tensai: Nocturne
Atlus, 2003: PS2 Points: 266 Votes: 7 Previous Rank: 30
60. Shin Megami Tensai: Persona 4
Atlus, 2008: PS2 Points: 266 Votes: 8 Previous Rank: 8
One quality that both games share and contributes deeply to their effectiveness is the intensity with which theme, mechanics, and style are integrated. In both games, these aspects support each other, creating a mutually reinforced identity that enhances each individually in turn. In fact, all great JRPGs do this and it's one of the defining strengths of the medium, but in these games it’s tuned so strongly that it’s easy to see.
Consider how the severe and demanding mechanics of Nocturne both contribute to the game’s stark sense of style and at the same time are endorsed by it. The surreal post-humanity setting and the cold, pragmatic menus set the tone for a kind of combat that is demanding and uncompromising, and in turn the combat suggests a setting that is hostile and serious. In turn, a mood of somber introspection and of a test of strength emerges that is the exact environment needed for the questions that the game trades so deeply in: what is right and wrong, what should be the dominant law of existence, and who should get to make that determination.
Persona 4, for all its gaudy pomp and spectacle, works on the same terms. It takes all the mechanics of social interaction and bond-forming established in Persona 3, and not only refines them mechanically, but integrates them even further. It’s not just that making friends makes your party stronger as in 3, but also that the primary dungeons and combat occur in psycho-space representations of your party members’ individual mental hang-ups. By advancing in the game you become more capable at freeing your friends from their interior suffering and opening an avenue for personal growth, which likewise increases your capabilities in advancing the game. But the psycho-spaces exist because the Jungian collective unconscious manifests in the form of popular entertainment—television and video games—and so the style of Persona 4’s game UI elements and episodic pacing is tuned to the flair and beats of a high impact anime series.
Again, it's not to suggest that other MegaTen games don’t do this, but it is the degree to which these two integrate their elements that makes them stand out among their peers. The extent to which these games intertwine their story, systems, and presentation—the three pillars of JRPG expression—marks them not only premier among SMTs but also as showcases for the strength of the Integrated JRPG.
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
Secret characters:
Nancy Drew and Encyclopedia Brown.
...
Wait, if this is supposed to be a JRPG then one of those characters would have to be Detective Conan.
Nocturne was #16 for me. I don't remember exactly when I played it the first time, but I believe it was my first non-Persona SMT game (I might have even played it before a Persona, but not sure) and it knocked the hell off my socks.
I love a Persona and a SMT. I just wish that they'd re-release or remake the originals as opposed to doing 4 which already has a perfectly cromulent version available now. (I know because I played and beat it in 2024.)
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
This is sounding even better. Someone better be taking notes!
Nocturne is one that a friend of mine highly, highly recommends. I believe it's his favorite JRPG of all time. I... haven't put the time into it yet, but I don't doubt its quality. As usual, I got around six hours in and fell off the wagon for some other shiny trinket. I should probably play via the remaster or by a patched PS2 version that lets Dante get Pierce - I've heard the lack of that skill greatly inhibits his damage potential.
Modern Persona for whatever reason hasn't found purchase with me. Neither has the original style, if I'm being honest, because I haven't beaten those, either. But as far as aesthetics go, Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment are right up my alley. But dang if the Persona 3 and onwards games don't have a sense of visual style and pizazz that I can't deny.