I had a good feeling! Celebrating 40 Years and 108 JRPGs of Destiny

[Torzelbaum]

Viper-but-bug

Vikavolt

It seems so obvious now but I had never made that connection before.

 

[gorha]

Whew, I've been away from this thread for a while, but a couple of my picks made it onto the list, so I'll write a bit about them.

First, Terranigma, my #33. Brilliant game, excellent in every way. Bloody Mary isn't even that bad. You can learn the fight and do it the "real" way with magic, or grind a few levels and kill her in like 3 hits, which takes about the same amount of time in my experience. If there's one bad part of Terranigma, it's the stealth mission castle, but even that isn't really so bad, it's just funny that the punishment for getting spotted by a guard there is the same as for dying to the enemies in any other dungeon.

And second, Breath of Fire IV, my #42. When it comes to saying what's good about BoFIV, I don't think I can put it better than Lokii. I didn't rate it above every other PS1 game myself, but it might be the one that best exemplifies what was so good about PS1 JRPGs as a genre.

 

[Voncaster]

For whatever reason when compiling a list of JRPGs Pokemon was not on my mind. Definitely and oversight on my part.

I think I've only played Fire Red and Pokemon Go. But both games are really good.

 

[4-So]

Pokemon was a little after my time and my first proper Pokemon game was Sword, so the series never occurred to me to include. I like what I've played well enough, although I did not finish Sword, only finding out much later that you can just turn off the battle animations. (I think I've mentioned elsewhere how impatient I am.)

I have Pokemon Scarlet still in the shrinkwrap on the shelf. I should probably dig into that eventually.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

I went hard in the paint on Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow. Gold/Silver happened and I fell completely out of love and never really went back for more than a few reasons. I assume RBG will see its way onto this list later and will save my thoughts for it at that time.

 

[Paul le Fou]

Same, I played Red and then never touched another one until Black/White, which I didn't get very far into at all. And that's it!

 

[Lokii]

75. Persona 5 75. Devil Survivor
P-Studio, 2016: PS3/4 Points: 223 Votes: 5 Atlus, 2016: DS Points: 223 Votes: 5
​

An interesting pair of SMTs mark Megaten’s debut in our countdown. Devil Survivor is a scrappy little title, the bizarre (and inspired) mashup of traditional Megatenic combat and SPRG design; and queen bee Persona 5 is… well, I’m not brave enough to try to sum up Persona in a single pithy phrase but let’s just say that this is the most its ever been. I’ve only but dabbled with both of these, so I have little insight to offer, but what strikes me first and foremost is they’ve got crazy style. Now, this is largely true of every Megaten—the ‘true’ indicated by ‘Shin’ in the series’ moniker means they’ve got those true mad vibes—but I think it’s interesting how their individual styles are evoked in these two games.

Of course Persona 5 is the grand marshal of over the top stylistic excess, every action, every menu, every moment of gameplay poppin’ off like a graphic designer’s fever dream. Never has turning over the calendar page been so dramatic. It’s all thematically tuned, as one would expect of the Persona brand: the slick mid-century spy aesthetics and street art inspired visual design reinforcing the game’s sense of rebellion. My favorite detail is the literary touch, where each character’s phantom costume and personal persona are modelled after a romantic rebel from history or fiction. But mostly what Persona 5’s style aims at is to be cool as honking heck, which it is.

Devil Survivor is also a very stylish game, but in a totally different way. Compared to Persona 5’s flaunt and flash, it comes across as crunchy and underground. One contributing factor to this is the reuse of old SMT monster art for the combat sprites, giving the game a comix feel. But a much larger one is the way the game’s menus and icons evoke the verticality of pre-Apple cellphone UI design. The game tells the story of teenagers trapped in modern day Tokyo during an invasion of mythic gods and monsters (that is to say, it is a Megaten game), and there is a significant emphasis on connection and mobility. Your character jets about town, carefully managing their time and obligations to various friends/factions. And this is done via their COMP, a personal cell slash devil-summoning device. Even though the COMPs visually resemble a Nintendo DS (which is a fun gimmick in itself seeing as you’re playing the game on one), the menu and visual design, via the way they vertically stack information or the orientation of parties and encounters in three columns especially, resonate with a cellphone gaming scene that’s perfect for the urban concerns and youthful Tokyo-roaming mood the game simulates.

But it feels pretty surface to say a Megaten is stylish and cool. I might as well state they have impeccable gameplay that’s perfectly balanced. It’s like yeah, we know. But I’ve never made it far enough in either to say if they bring the style to a point. Do they pull off whatever grand gesture all their pomp and circumstance aims for. I assume they must—being a little deeper than expected is another core SMT trait after all. But what do you all think? What makes these ‘Tens cooler than just cool?

 

[Issun]

Persona 5 all the way down here. I never saw it coming.

 

[YangusKhan]

Persona 5 pretty much single-handedly set the gold-standard for how cool you could make your RPG interface look. I voted for other Megaten games and not these ones. But it's only because I appreciated their "true mad vibes" more than Persona 5 or DS.

 

[Violentvixen]

Persona 5 all the way down here. I never saw it coming.

I see what you did there.

5 was on my list but in the lower half. I definitely like it but there's so many dang good games, no shame in being on the lower half. A lot of the themes of the game were things I found a little too uncomfortable, likely for being a bit too realistic/possible instead of fantastical. Totally a personal preference thing.

 

[Kazin]

I'm glad Devil Survivor made the list! Its mashup of tactical battles and demon fusing still feels novel to this day given we've only got two games using the system. The abilities the demons had and the strengths and weaknesses of them all really made for a great time. Combine that with the most Christian the SMT series has ever been (not in a pro- or anti-Christian sense, just in a "we've made a pseudo sequel to a few stories from the Bible" sense), it really hit me hard because so much of it was familiar to me, having grown up in a lightly Catholic household.

The 3DS remake balanced some lategame leveling awkwardness some players found themselves in and added largely worthwhile battles and epilogues to some of the endings and is the recommended way to play it, but the original DS game still holds up otherwise and is fantastic.

 

[FelixSH]

Kazin, can you please go a bit into detail, about those "pseudo sequels"? What biblical stories are referenced there? If you feel like it.

I think I had Devil Survivor on place 28. In the lower part of my amazing segment. Excellent games, that only not quite blew me away, but gave me a great time, just because the gameplay, story, etc... is all so strong.

Back in 2010, I hacked my ds, and finally got access to Megaten, by this (and Strange Journey). But this was the one I first played for real. Introducing me to a lot of classical demons. the atmosphere is excellent, the horror of being trapped, people getting crazy and dangerous, could be well felt. Especially strong at the start, when you still try to get your bearings, even have to find something to charge your phones. But it never completely lets up.

Fusing powerful demons was so amazing. Demons come in different clans (I think, types, maybe, whatever), and each clan has a different clan ability. Some get skills you can use, like giving you a second movement phase. Some let you passively fly. Some give you great healing spells. They are all great, iirc, but some are better then other. You see, one clan is the Tyrant. The earliest example you can get from it is King Frost. I'm sure everyone at least knows Jack Frost, they cute, little, snow demon, and maybe Pyro Jack, a Jack'o'Lantern. I think fusing them creates King Frost (or maybe it's the second Tyrant, anyway...). If you attack an enemy with a Tyrant in your party, that enemys turn gets pushed back. Because there is a turn order, decided by your speed, I assume. Doing more makes you move later. So you can imagine that this is a great, tactical asset. I think you also refreshed your MP with it? And Tyrants are also great, strong demons.

The bosses fell like bosses, especially the first. Beldr, who you learn about in the creepy mails you get each day, who is invulnerable to nearly everything. And then you face him, and you seriously can't hurt him. After a non-trivial fight, nontheless. You have to flee, trying not to lose you main character. The fight itself, when you actually can hurt him, is not trivial either, but doable enough. The further Bel fights are still challenging enough, but nothing comes close to the first one.

Depending on how you interact with others, some of your potential allies might get killed. You might have to fight one, or get them as an allie, in a fight. Specifically interesting, I thought, is the conflict between two of them. One being drawn to lawful good, who gets so pissed and frustrated that he summons Yama, judge of the death realm, who than makes him able to strike down the assholes who pray on the weak inside the barrier no one can escape. On the other side, you have someone who...I forgot the details with him, but they come to a fight. And only if you play right, will you be able to save both.

I replayed it...I think two years ago at this point. Excellent game. the mix of strategic maps with jrpg-style combat is so excellent.

 

[Kazin]

Kazin, can you please go a bit into detail, about those "pseudo sequels"? What biblical stories are referenced there? If you feel like it.

Spoilers for Devil Survivor: The big one being Cain and Abel, given the player character is a reincarnation of Abel and his cousin, Naoya, is the reincarnation of Cain. It's a pseudo sequel because it's... probably not how the writers of the Bible would write a sequel to that story LMAO

 

[Sarge]

This is where I admit I've only beaten one SMT game of any flavor, and that's the port of Soul Hackers we got on 3DS. Fun time, that. Persona is a weird series for me - I think I'm more on board the tone and such for the first two games (well, three), but beyond that the rhythms of the game kind of throw me off. I see why folks dig it, though. Flashy and stylish is absolutely the name of the game here.

 

[gorha]

Devil Survivor is an incredible game - I had it at #4. I think it's the best execution of Megaten's "demons invade Tokyo" premise; it makes your choices matter long-term beyond just shifting your alignment, since you can save or lose some party members but stay on the same ending route, and the story beats feel more important in the moment because, rather than having already happened, the apocalypse is happening around you, rapidly but gradually, so the stakes keep getting raised and your early victories feel like you're just holding off the inevitable.

The gameplay is also great. I tend to get burned out on strategy RPGs easily, but Devil Survivor held my attention and was a ton of fun all the way through. I particularly liked the skill cracking system, where you have to assign one of your characters to an enemy that has a skill you want before the battle, and then make sure to defeat that enemy with that character. It really helped to make it clear which enemies needed you to pay special attention (the ones with new skills) and to think in terms of "what party can I build to take out this enemy in particular?", and it could occasionally lead to tough decisions if there were surprise reinforcements or something, where a character's best course of action might no longer be to go after the enemy with the crackable skill that you built their party around.

 

[Sarge]

I kinda need to give Devil Survivor some serious run. I have both the DS and 3DS version, is there any advantage rolling with DS or is the 3DS version superior all around?

 

[Peklo]

I think this applies to every DS RPG that received a subsequent 3DS version, but the advantage in crisp, pixelated fonts and other visual assets always makes the original releases preferable to me. If you're more interested in additional content and system tweaks, then there's reason to look into the revisions.

 

[Paul le Fou]

I work on the SMT mobile game as an editor yet still have not really played much of the series. I did SMT 3 for a while until I found some instant-death enemies that really soured me on the whole thing, and then I tried Persona 3 FES until I moved to a different continent and left my PS2 behind. I think I own SMT4 and one of these days might get around to P5, but I'm also in no rush...

 

[Sarge]

I think this applies to every DS RPG that received a subsequent 3DS version, but the advantage in crisp, pixelated fonts and other visual assets always makes the original releases preferable to me. If you're more interested in additional content and system tweaks, then there's reason to look into the revisions.

Ah, gotcha. Decisions, decisions... I do value some clean pixels, and often find that additional content in these releases isn't often worth it, but I also know that's not universally true.

 

[Issun]

DS vs 3DS is pretty much a moot point nowadays unless you're willing to go through emulation fuckery.

 

[Voncaster]

Persona 5 Royal* was my introduction to Persona and I loved it. Persona 5 Royal was number 7 on my submitted list.

I played it 2x through and probably have something like 300 hours (150ish per play through). I also played it at a time where I quit my job due to burn out and could not face a classified section for a little bit. Definitely a therapeutic game for me.

Persona 5 Royal definitely put the Persona team on my radar. I have since played Catherine and Persona 3 Reload to completion.

It also needs to be said that this is another JRPG with an amazing sound track.

*I assume Persona 5 and Persona 5 Royal are being lumped together for voting, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Lokii]

74. Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Square Div-4, 2003: GBA Points: 224 Votes: 6​

What a surprise that Square followed up their seminal and serious strategy game with a handheld frivolity aimed at adolescents. But while FFTA introduced a lighthearted aesthetic and low-stakes vibe, it infamously presented a twisty moral scenario that affirms it as a more than worthy, if unexpected, sequel to the beloved Playstation classic.

The plot goes like this: in the modern town of St. Ivalice, bullied schoolchild Mewt discovers a wish-granting grimoire and uses its magic to rewrite reality to resemble his new favorite game Final Fantasy XII. In this new Dream-Ivalice Mewt’s friends and family are elevated to heroic positions and participate in non-lethal state-sanctioned skirmishes. The player takes the role of Marche, one of Mewt’s classmates, who discovers corruption among Ivalice’s ruling system and fights to dissolve the dream. Achieving this, the various characters are returned to their mundane existence with its psychological burdens, but due to their experiences in the illusion they are now better equipped to face reality.

What at first glance appears as a straightforward ‘escape from the simulation’ narrative is complicated by a number of narrative choices. First is that while Ivalice is unequivocally recognized as an unreality, it’s never really presented as a negative transformation. Every major character is burdened by some personal suffering in the real world and which is happily resolved in the fantasy. Mewt the outcast is now a prince, his father the unemployed deadbeat is now a celebrated knight captain, Marche’s disabled brother Doned now can walk, their self-loathing friend Ritz now a famous success, etc. The only person who doesn’t seem to have real world pain is Marche; and his dedication to ending the dream and denying his friends’ happiness can come across as selfishly unempathetic to the point that any number of think pieces have been written casting him as the game’s true villain.

But even this reassessment seems to be missing layers. That the Dream-Ivalice is based on a real-world Final Fantasy specifically complicates things further. It turns FFTA into an indictment of the player themselves, for are they not also someone who is seeking escape from life’s disappointments in an idyllic unreality? To play this FFTA, or Final Fantasy XII, or any other game is to indulge in the same kind of stakes-free heroic make-believe that Marche denounces. What an odd role to put the player in, asking them to inhabit the figure who condemns that very action! But even that isn’t the end of it. In the game’s normal ending the characters are shown as better off for having lived through the fantasy, perhaps saying something about videogames’ ability to heal or put things in perspective or allow for healthy escapism. But alongside that implied argument is the real ending. If the player dedicates themselves to the tricky task of finding and finishing all 300 missions they unlock an alternative scenario where Marche chooses to embrace the fantasy, preserve his friends’ happy illusion, and live out the rest of his life in Ivalice as a celebrated hero. This completely upends the game’s morality yet again, and makes the game go out on an ambiguous note. Is this a victory? There’s something to the way the game forces a fanatical and perhaps unhealthy compulsion if one wants to achieve this ending, and there is something else in that doing so exhausts the game and leaves the fantasy hollow of content. To buy in completely is to be left with nothing.

That the game doesn’t clearly come down on either side of the issue and is plagued with messiness and ambiguity adds to its appeal. If it presented a simple resolution or straightforward moral scenario it would be much the lesser. It is because it positions its fantasy just so, with the recursiveness of its themes and medium of delivery, that it rises far above the status of lighthearted spin-off of a classic and remains in the conversation to this day.

 

[Bongo]

The game continues after the ending, and the happier "true ending" can only be attained in that post-game state. I think the synthesis is: Marche and friends can use the book to return to Ivalice any time they want. It's okay to use fantasy as relief from a hard life as long as you don't trap yourself in it.

 

[JBear]

I didn't vote for this one, but I really enjoyed it. The build-your-own-overworld system is delightfully opaque and deranged, and the in-universe judges imposing arbitrary rules on the fights (complete with soccer cards for violations!) is a really fun idea. Also, I adore progression systems where you learn abilities from gear, rare as they are. Oh, and the schoolyard snowball fight as tactics tutorial is a delightfully inspired choice.

 

[Second Duke Revier]

Would be really interested to see where FFT the original stands on this list...

 

[WildcatJF]

This is the one Final Fantasy I've beaten! Hoping to eventually remedy that, haha.

 

[Violentvixen]

Oh, and the schoolyard snowball fight as tactics tutorial is a delightfully inspired choice.

When describing the game to people who haven't played it I always try to cite this, it was such a fun idea.

I logged so many hours in this game. It was just unquestionably fun to play, and there was so much to do. When I submitted my list I put the original higher than this, but honestly at this moment I'm feeling more love for the GBA one. They're both so dang good.

 

[Second Duke Revier]

Speaking of tactical GBA games, I really liked Tactics Ogre: The Knight Of Lodis. Sure, the story is nowhere as good as the original, but it's still plenty decent, and the gameplay side of things has a lot of legitimate improvements over the original's rough state to make it worth playing. Of course, there's still imbalances, and the overtly flashy animations makes things a tad too slow for some people's tastes, but it's still a pretty good experience imo.

Unfortunately, afaik, it was an extremely niche game in an already niche franchise, so I doubt we'll be seeing it on this list.

 

[Lokii]

Fun fact, the Knights of the Lodis team getting absorbed into Square was a big reason GBA was chosen for the FFT sequel. In its way FFTA is as much a sequel to Lodis as it is to FFT.

 

[Baudshaw]

76. Pokemon Sun & Moon
Game Freak, 2016: 3DS Points: 219 Votes: 6​

I’m not a huge Pokemon guy and a lot of the series’ nuance is as mysterious to me as Mimikyu’s true form. Smoon was the last one I played, and for a guy who was never really drawn in by the earlier titles, I appreciated the many ways it freshened up the proceedings and parted ways with tradition. Friends, let me tell you, not being a slave to hidden machines is a godsend.

Looking back now, it's clear Smoon was the first foray into the series’ modern, or experimental, era. Xy may have been the game that transitioned the mainline titles into 3D and a more representational expression of the Pokemon setting, but it still followed the old tried and true Pokemon modes. In contrast, Smoon is as fresh as a tropical breeze. As far as Pokemon games go, it’s a radical departure, abandoning many tried and true, and tired, holdovers from previous generations. Not only discarding QoL-interrupting elements like the aforementioned HM juggling but also things as fundamental as the grid-based environments and the gym-quest structure.

Its biggest innovation, though, is its inspired Hawaiian setting and the concept of regional variants. These aren’t just fun new designs of favorite old ‘mons, but intricately tie into the setting’s historical context and the game’s themes of tradition vs. invasion. Consider the humble yungoos, the Loitering Pokemon. This mongoose-styled monster’s pokedex entries read “with its sharp fangs, it will bite anything. It did not originally live in Alola but was imported from another region” and “it wanders around in a never-ending search for food. At dusk, it collapses from exhaustion and falls asleep on the spot.” And indeed in the late 1800s mongooses were introduced to Hawaii as a solution to the rat population that was so destructive to the islands’ sugarcane industry. However, mongooses are diurnal and don’t hunt during the night when rats are active. Not only did they not solve the rat problem but became an invasive species that to this day threaten native endangered species and are known to attack people. Yungoos‘s ‘Loitering’ moniker now takes on a whole new meaning. And so Alola’s rats have also seen a change. The Alolan rattata is a nocturnal creature, a dusky menace that slinks about at night with no fear of its would-be predators.

This is one of many ways Smoon plays with regional variations to enrich and comment on its setting. The idea of invasion permeates many parts of the game from the minute to the grand, pulling from the history of Hawaii as a place which people arrive at, incorporate themselves, and then witness the arrival of new peoples with new ideas. The quest of Smoon sees the player visiting religiously significant shrines in place of gyms, but the larger story revolves around an invasive group of scientists, who want to preserve Alola, but not nurture it. Then there are the ultrabeasts, literal dimensional aliens that invade the pokedex with strange forms, even by this series’ standards. Even the player character themselves is an invader of the region, moving to Alola at the start unlike the typical Pokemon protagonist who is a native citizen of their region. On the contrasting side of all this is the natural beauty of Alola itself and a celebration of its diverse ecology. And interwoven in this expression of vitality is an idea of family and communion and goodwill that pairs nicely with Pokemon’s traditional sense of bonding and companionship.

What I like about Smoon is that it doesn’t really come down on one side or the other. Communing with Alolan nature is important but so is engaging with the people of the islands, the modernized parts of its culture, the tourists, trainers, and industries. Like Hawaii, Alola is a place where to exist in it is to meet both sides of its culture. After all, ohana means ‘gotta catch ‘em all.’

Eyy, at least this one came here!

I know I'm gonna make a lot of people feel very queasy but...

This game was my childhood.

I got it for a gift, and I must have hundreds of hours on it. Every part of it was really well-crafted.