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House of the Dragon - Still waiting for book 6

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
HBO has released a trailer for House of the Dragon, a Game of Thrones spinoff depicting the original Dance of Dragons.


We will see if people are willing to return to Westeros after the fairly disastrous final season of Thrones. I'll definitely watch it.
 

Paul le Fou

24/7 lofi hip hop man to study/relax to
(He)
D&D aren't in charge, and the source material is a bit more loosely defined framework than an ongoing series of novels, so I'm definitely willing to give this a chance and check it out.
 
Hard to know what to expect here:

+Benihoff and Weiss are not involved
+Not burdened under the weight of expectations to produce an ending that some people have been getting worked up over speculating about for multiple decades
+Can more or less just write for TV, because the format of the source material is more like a faux-history and less suitable for direct adaptation
+Easier to avoid some of the problems of the original text that definitely feel like it started 25 years ago, as much as I am personally an apologist for it and GRRM in general

+/- Prequel. An interesting era in the history of the world, if they can avoid just becoming a series of "remember this?" references.

-Not working from a text as well crafted as the early seasons of GoT
-Can it recreate a now mostly lost cultural moment or recreate some of the highs of experiencing that world on film for the first time? Probably not.

Hoping for some competently made genre schlock, will be pleasantly surprised if it's better than that.
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I wonder how long they intend this to run, because the story as we understand it could fit into a miniseries or something much longer, and I'm not sure which approach would have better results
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
This show exists now. I thought the premiere was solid. I found following it pretty manageable but I'm not sure if that would be true for people who haven't read the books. It has a tighter focus than Game of Thrones and set up some interesting conflicts to play out.
 
I liked the first episode. I intend to watch the full series.

I find Matt Smith distracting. He is my favorite Doctor. To see him in another role feels off to me. Especially this role. Maybe it will grow on me.

The House of the Dragon intro sucks. The GoT intro traveling around the map each episode was great. The GoT intro maybe my second favorite TV show intro after Star Trek Voyager.
 

John

(he/him)
I only know Matt Smith from The Crown and Last Night in Soho, so seeing him in the Jamie/GoT Viserys mashup role was right in that wheelhouse.

My complaint with the show is just how close all the characters are to previous archetypes from GoT. The Dragons Targaryans are mostly the GoT Lannisters, everyone else just gets name dropped as bait for series veterans. They do the same tournament shenanigans as the first season of GoT as a way to make this familiar. It was fine, but I hope they get to do more original things, not just "but this time there's 10 dragons instead of 0-3".
 
First episode was good. I hope that the premier's focus on the highest echelons of this society is just a limited-scope-premier-thing. One of the better parts of GoT was how we got plenty of commoner PoVs to balance out and give contrast to movements of the upper crust.

My complaint with the show is just how close all the characters are to previous archetypes from GoT. The Dragons Targaryans are mostly the GoT Lannisters, everyone else just gets name dropped as bait for series veterans. They do the same tournament shenanigans as the first season of GoT as a way to make this familiar. It was fine, but I hope they get to do more original things, not just "but this time there's 10 dragons instead of 0-3".
I don't particularly mind this. How a pilot lands can really affect how the show is perceived and picked up by a general audience. They're trying to convince people to join in, and when making prequels/sequels, a lot of that depends on managing/meeting fan expectations - which are generally pretty regressive centered around fulfilling people's base desire for member-berries.

But even with that caveat there's a lot of interesting texture and variation to all these familiar things, even in this first episode. The setting we see in GoT is like watching Rome circa 400AD - where they're in steep decline thanks to hundreds of years of corruption, nepotism, and institutional inertia/rot leading governance to become completely out of touch with the needs of the masses. This show thusly, is more like Rome in 200AD - where we are ostensibly seeing this society at the heights of its prosperity, but the cracks are beginning to shine through and you can begin to see the origins of the fall of this society. And that aspect, as a history buff, is probably the best parts of this show. You see familiar landmarks in this show, but they look much newer/cleaner and more opulent and well maintained. The ceremonies are grander and nobody is wringing their hands over how they'll be able to afford them. These kinds of details really helps visually connect this show to the first one as a prequel, before-the-fall kind of scenario and I really enjoyed taking those kinds of things in as a viewer.
 

Adrenaline

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(He/Him)
The House of the Dragon intro sucks. The GoT intro traveling around the map each episode was great. The GoT intro maybe my second favorite TV show intro after Star Trek Voyager.
We haven't seen the House of the Dragon intro yet.

First episode was good. I hope that the premier's focus on the highest echelons of this society is just a limited-scope-premier-thing. One of the better parts of GoT was how we got plenty of commoner PoVs to balance out and give contrast to movements of the upper crust.
I wouldn't count on too much of that with this particular story.
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I'm definitely enjoying the series so far. Paddy Considine is great as Viserys, the king whose death will result in a crippling civil war. Similar to Robert, he is just not well suited to the job. He doesn't want war with the Free Cities, so he allows the rebellion on the Stepstones to fester until it causes a problem big enough to make him look weak and ineffective. And by ignoring the clear signals from everyone around him that keeping Rhaenerys as his heir will not end well once he is gone, he is leaving a powder keg behind. Considine plays him as a complicated man, who ultimately wants to be decent more than he wants to rule.
 

Rascally Badger

El Capitan de la outro espacio
(He/Him)
So this is a whole season of prologue, huh. I wish it was introducing characters I wanted to see more of. I agree with Considine's Viserys being great. That is the one character where I feel as if they have fleshed out who he is and what he wants. I guess Daemon, too, though either I do not understand his goals or he is just a character that changes too often to be predictable. Otherwise, it is a lot of introducing potentially interesting characters and then making sure they are dead or shunted off-stage within an episode or two.

The time jump and change of actresses for Rhaenyra and Allicent is a problem for me. I feel like we are supposed to tracking the disintegration of their relationship, but I don't think the show did a good job of establishing where it started, and then jumped past most of the development parts.
 

Adrenaline

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(He/Him)
The alternative was to start the series closer to the beginning of the war, and have a ton of exposition or flashbacks to make sure you understood all the characters and their relationships. It's not the most graceful way to start a show but I think they've done a good job of giving each individual episode good drama and understandable stakes.
 

Rascally Badger

El Capitan de la outro espacio
(He/Him)
Am I misinterpreting things, or was the outcome for Laenor exactly what Rhaenyra and Daemon were plotting? I've read some reviews that seemed to think they had been double crossed, but that's not how I took it.
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
It only really makes sense if they knew about it. If you were going to hire someone to actually assassinate your husband, it probably wouldn't be his lover.
 
This week on House of the Dragon:

woo-cheer.gif
 
I know but I really want to discuss how gratuitous that scene was, and also how intensely weird it was as well. Not that the act itself was weird, but they definitely wanted to frame it as some kind of deviant act when it's just like... not actually a big deal besides the jerking it in front of her aspect
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I think the scene is more interesting than the "lol feet gross" reaction I saw online gives it credit for. We learn a lot about the power dynamic between the two characters, one of which is a mystery even to book fans because the non-omniscient author did not know what his deal was. He could get feet any time he wanted with his authority as basically head torturer, but he gets off on the queen's because it represents the power he has over her despite her position.
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
The show made several significant changes to the story from the source material over the course of the season, most of them revealing previously unknown motivations that significantly change how certain events play out. Like, they're changing the why instead of the what. Basically every change has been handled well and made the story even more interesting and tragic. Great stuff.
 
Pretty decent season. My thoughts going into the show are basically my thoughts coming out of the show. Good politicking, good upper crust drama. But the show kind of misses the mark on one of the key aspects that made the original good. The lack of perspective or consideration for commoners is fairly distressing when you start to think about it. So much of the original show was about contrasting the priorities and narrow mindedness of the elites in society and how they callously grind away at the rest of us for short term gain. And here, all you get is the high palace intrigue and almost none of the contrast. I thought it was pretty telling of the blinders the writers seem to have in episode 9: where they had that one old princess smash through a public precession, only to turn around and run away. The character didn't want to be 'the one to start a war' because earlier she gave high minded lectures about how good leaders consider their impact on those they rule. Meanwhile, the entire usurping conspiracy ringleaders are all in this one place, and they're completely defenseless. She could have killed literally all of them with one word, consequence free. You cut the head off of this beast, and there is no war because every competitive claim to the throne is now cinders. So she all but guarantees a war begins by flying away. Meanwhile, all of that is nakedly contrasted by the fact that when she entered the scene, she undoubtedly killed hundreds of innocent bystanders to do so. The entire point of her character is supposed to be that she had superior temperament and judgment and should have been made monarch, but the one test of leadership and judgment we see of her in the entire season she fails spectacularly. There's a lot of moments like this in the show where the writing is saying to the audience one thing, but then the form of the story takes a giant shit on the messaging. This was just the most obvious and egregious form that took place so far.
 

Adrenaline

Post Reader
(He/Him)
I don't think it's unintentional that a bunch of civilians died in that scene. The writers know that war has huge negative consequences for the civilian population, and it was covered extensively in the original story. This show has a narrower focus, especially because they were trying to cover a couple decades in one season. I wouldn't be surprised if more of that element showed up going forward.
 
That's why I said there's this tonal disconnect. Are the writers aware? Maybe? But the form of the show focuses so solely on only the palace intrigue that the wholesale slaughter of civilians is barely even a footnote. We don't see any of the grisly aftermath, we don't see anyone convey emotions for the deceased, we don't even see a single zoom in on a regular person in the audience after that happens, and we don't see a single consequence for this either. It might as well have not happened. The original GoT had a very strong awareness of socioeconomic class, and it's hard to have any class consciousness in this one when the vast majority of society is glorified set dressing at best.
 
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