Hades is out now, holy heck

[narcodis]

Some friends and I have been competing with each other for fastest time, and I finally landed in 1st place. Really happy with how this run turned out. The triple bomb upgrade for the Railgun is extremely strong, I really need to use it more.

This run also had a bunch of revenge damage boons, +damage on death defiance, and +damage on using Call (which was a zeus call). I was melting ol Redacted's health bar, let me tell ya.

 

[Paul le Fou]

Triple Bomb is the secret best hammer for the rail. It's especially super duper strong with the 4th aspect, too!

 

[Mightyblue]

Enjoy this truly wild fists run. I will never have that streak of boon quality luck again, but it did let me hit uh, 4 digits on some meaty special last-hit crits. I spent more time waiting on phase changes than boss fighting once I got the crit engine going.

 

[Mightyblue]

 

[Paul le Fou]

I slept on this until way after I "put down" the game (I still do a run or two a week or so), but I've recently realized that the Aspect of Demeter fist is Really Good, Actually.
~Essentially, that multi-cutter hitting all those times does an ass-ton of damage. With good boons and multipliers you can be hitting 1000 or even higher with each one. Both runs I've ended up with Artemis on it, which means one or two of those hits will almost certainly crit. Though an Aphrodite or Demeter/Athena will still have excellent boosts for big punch.
~The 12-hit trigger is still kind of a weird rhythm, yeah. BUT, several things can ameliorate this. For one, if a punch hits multiple targets, it counts each hit towards the 12, so hit 2 enemies with six punches and you're golden! The hammer that increases your punch range, for example, goes really well with this for getting the cutter charged faster. There's also the hammer to add a rush attack to the end of your punch chain, making for a full combo of 6 (one of which has extra area) which makes for a more natural 2-combo rhythm, if you're landing that many full combos.
~The hammers for the cutter can be really good. The charged shot one makes your cutter a long-ranged attack with higher base damage and a charge-up for even more damage - landing, what, 5 extra hits so a total of six? That's 300 base damage before charging up (increase from 7x 30 = 210 base for the charged cutter), though I don't know the exact charge damage. Another was the dash-upper doing +100% damage in an area. That's 420 base damage in a pretty generous AoE around you.

Anyway, it's good and I like it. I'll need to go back and try Talos again to compare and contrast now.

 

[Mightyblue]

I think you pretty much always want to run Artemis on Fist Flourish? Sure, the other flat boost type gods are fine for it, but you really want those meaty crits.

 

[Rosewood]

Excellent essay about Hades. I'm sure that at least some of this is discussed in this thread's 25 pages, all I have to say in response is that that's a lot of reading, and that I've been only been mildly interested in this until I read Hulk's take on its story.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/46502425

 

[karzac]

Final episode of Developing Hell is out! If you haven't watched the rest of the series, I highly recommend it!

 

[estragon]

Rolled credits on this the other day, and I liked it enough that I still want to play more. Not sure if I'll stick with it through the epilogue or not because that seems like a bit of a grind to max out so many Olympian relationships, but that's also what I thought about reaching the credits, so who knows. The only one I've naturally reached that point with is Athena, because I tended to use her keepsake on the first floor make sure she was in the rotation, ensuring I had a decent chance at grabbing Divine Dash, which feels like maybe the most any single boon can lower the difficulty of a run. (I've stopped using her keepsake to do this now that she's maxed and have learned to live without it, but oh man you can feel the difference between having Divine Dash and not having it.)

One thing that I'm constantly surprised by is how many throwaway runs that I consider giving up end being really fun. I think my favorite example of this was trying out the Aspect of Zeus (slow shield that spins doing damage over time) for the first time. For the first half of the run it felt like I had nothing going for me boon wise, but in the back half I lucked into getting Zeus on the slow shield special with a bunch of lightning power up boons and also the Demeter cast lasers with a bunch of power up boons for that. So Zagreus ended up being kind of The Trap Master, setting up a lightning shield and a laser grid in place and then just getting out of the way and watching things die from a distance, for the most part. The final boss in particular does a lot of standing in place so this just eats away at its health, and also it completed defanged the small rooms of Styx, because there was nowhere to escape. A real reverse difficulty curve run.

I'm currently doing runs in the 1-3 heat range with whatever weapon has the Darkness bonus on it, setting the heat to whatever gets a bounty. (I haven't yet landed on a weapon that calls for 4 heat yet.) I guess my system doesn't actually make any sense, because if I'm doing runs for bounties I'm not actually getting that much Darkness in the first place, since the bosses are giving diamonds/blood/ambrosia instead of Darkness. But whatever, it keeps things interesting to switch weapons, and the randomness of what the Darkness bonus lands on naturally mixes things up.

Some of the heats feel weirdly balanced. Extreme Measures 2 is a 3 Heat run, but it's way easier I think than the 1 Heat run where enemies all take one more hit. The Furies are the boss that by necessity you almost certainly have mastered by the time the Pact of Punishment opens up, and Extreme Measures 1 doesn't do much to make it that much harder. Bone Hydra is the easiest boss in the game and Extreme Measures 2 seems to just make the room layout slightly more unfriendly but not in a way that seems to matter much. In contrast, one more hit doesn't sound like much, but in a hectic situation making every single enemy take 1 extra hit can add a lot of difficulty to situations where a good build can normally vaporize something instantly. Making the two easiest bosses more fun but still pretty easy for 3 Heat seems both a lot easier and more fun than basically any other way to get 3 or less Heat, honestly. (This isn't a complaint, because I'm happy to get easy rewards and the bosses are more fun!)

That being said, Theseus was the last boss I really learned (was losing lives there all the time many runs after the last boss stopped being an issue), and, although I don't die to him anymore, I'm pretty sure any additional difficulty will make me have to relearn my whole approach, whatever Extreme Measures 3 does...

 

[Mogri]

Extreme Measures 3 is worth running just for the dialogue.

 

[Eishtmo]

You don't have to get all the Olympians to max relationship, and there is quite a bit of dialog and interactions post credits just in the House anyway. I actually did finish the epilogue, and have been just trying to finish out story lines and grab the last few relationships I don't have yet.

 

[nosimpleway]

Hades is one of those games where I'd say the bulk of gameplay is what is technically postgame.

I started losing interest when I got the weapons to around heat 10, I think. I did get the "Hey, you've made over 100 runs now" dialog out of a couple characters, so there's at least that much to do.

 

[estragon]

Extreme Measures 3 is worth running just for the dialogue.

Inspired by this and because I randomly landed on a run for my first weapon that needed 4 Heat to get a bounty, I did try this out last night. EM3 gives 6 Heat when I only need 4, but I figured I'd rather learn a new boss than deal with all the other ways to get heat, and if I just do that I don't actually need to even think about what else to tack on to the Pact of Punishment until I need 7 heat. Also, I had just seen the Darkness cost of the thing Nyx wants you to build, so I figure that, if I lose a lot of runs over the course of learning the new Theseus, at least it will help me farm Darkness.

As I thought, it was rough. I did make to the final boss on that run, but I blew through 2 lives on Theseus, honestly had a kind of nothing build that didn't come together at all (and made a couple of very bad choices to check of some prophecies), and got way too sloppy with the final boss, so I died, breaking my 8 run streak when I was in the groove just doing EM2 for every 1-3 Heat. I probably still could have won if I had played better on the final boss, though, so I still do think this is a pretty good choice for heats 4-6, and more fun than any other option. If I have to learn EM3 Theseus at some point, might as well do it now...

Funny interaction though, yeah.

You don't have to get all the Olympians to max relationship

I checked this guide to see the conditions in order to decide if I was going to keep playing or not, and it made it seem like you have to max out most of them (6 out of a possible 9), which I think could accurately be described as "max[ing] out so many Olympian relationships." Maybe I'm misunderstanding something though, or the guide is wrong? Although, reading in more detail now (and if the guide can be trusted?), I guess I technically also met the conditions for Demeter, so I guess I'm already at 2 instead of just Athena... Maybe more in reach than I thought...

 

[Mogri]

You'll continue getting new dialogue on EM3 if you keep on it.

 

[estragon]

You'll continue getting new dialogue on EM3 if you keep on it.

I fit in a quick EM1 run with shield which only needed 1 Heat for bounties and apparently they have dialogue for turning the condition off as well!

Also on that run, I finally got Aphrodite's Blown Kiss, which makes her cast mid-range instead of short-range. Along with Demeter's boon to create AoE chill when you cast, these three boons combined to make a cast that is... still slightly worse than many of your basic single boon casting options. Glad to have Blown Kiss so that I can hopefully never pick Aphrodite's cast, ever again.

 

[Mightyblue]

Aphrodite's cast does a toooooon of damage though, so it actually works pretty good with the spear that loads casts into it, for instance. You can even charm your old man, which is mostly useful for briefly interrupting whatever he's doing.

 

[Mogri]

I fit in a quick EM1 run with shield which only needed 1 Heat for bounties and apparently they have dialogue for turning the condition off as well!

Oh, for that matter, try turning EM off altogether for a little extra dialogue. (They think of everything!)

 

[aturtledoesbite]

with the spear that loads casts into it, for instance

You're thinking of the bow and the shield.

 

[estragon]

Aphrodite's cast does a toooooon of damage though, so it actually works pretty good with the spear that loads casts into it, for instance. You can even charm your old man, which is mostly useful for briefly interrupting whatever he's doing.

Oh, I love Weak and (when I'm lucky enough to get it) Charm, just as a standard Attack/Special boon instead of a cast! I'm pretty confident that you don't need the cast for a chance to pick up Unhealthy Fixation so Weak effects can sometimes also Charm, because I've had it a few times and stopped taking her cast a while ago (until I realized it was a prereq for finishing a prophecy, at least). And yeah it's extremely funny when you get a weapon that does a lot of quick hits and Unhealthy Fixation. I thought the final boss would have some (more?) Charm immunity but it activates just fine.

I've never used any of the aspects that load casts into the weapons though. That would be a good reason for it. Not sure if I will ever spend the blood to unlock those, though...

I was drawn to and ended up liking Sword of Giving You Back Bloodstones, Bow of Focus Special Fire, Shield of Spinning Slowly, Magneto Fist, Rush to Get Your Spear, and Hit Yourself with a Bomb Gun, so I'm not motivated to unlock the other non-hidden aspects at the moment. My next blood priority is unlocking the 4th aspects to finish up those prophecies, and that's a lot of blood... Especially with the spear, I think the clear will be hard without upgrading it a lot. Do any of those load casts? If not, I don't see myself using cast loading weapons any time soon, unfortunately...

 

[Mightyblue]

You're thinking of the bow and the shield.

Turtle's right, got it confused with the other two. Typically the Hades' aspect spear is the easiest to use aside from the default in my experience?

 

[estragon]

Turtle's right, got it confused with the other two. Typically the Hades' aspect spear is the easiest to use aside from the default in my experience?

I just love the mobility of the Rush to Grab Your Spear. It's like a super dodge when you want to be somewhere else entirely.

 

[nosimpleway]

Bow-load is a fantastic way to spike utter fuckloads of damage into a single shot.

Come to think of it, I never did mess with the unlocked secret Aspect on the bow much. Perhaps I should.

 

[Paul le Fou]

The extra spear mobility on Achilles's spear is definitely my favorite, but as I started getting higher in heat the stacking damage modifiers of the Hades spear build started outpacing it in my eyes. But that's a thing I saw with many weapons, my favorite for most of the game/early heat giving way to something else later when I'd adapted to other things or found different ways to build.


Also, Aphrodite's cast has some of the highest damage from a cast, and can do absurdly powerful things in the right casting build, like with the Talos fist or Poseidon sword (and is amazing for loading into the shield or bow as mentioned above). If you get the Hermes boon to fast-cast by holding the button you can pump all three+ casts into your target quickly, with a lot of high damage boosts. It's not my favorite casting choice, even for those builds, but I've definitely done wonders with it before.

Come to think of it, I never did mess with the unlocked secret Aspect on the bow much. Perhaps I should.

You really, really should.

 

[estragon]

Honestly, I will just quit playing the game before I reach a point where I have to turn on any of Heats that don't interest me, or before it starts to feel like a necessity to switch to a cast loading weapon. (If I naturally reach a point where I already completed all the hidden aspect prophecies and happen to have enough Titan Blood to unlock the cast loading weapons, that's a different story!)

In any case, for now, EM3 is still fun, and will last me for Heats 4-6 for all 6 weapons. That's like... 18 more clears, and I haven't anywhere near mastered EM3 Theseus yet, so probably a lot more than 18 runs, unless I learn it much more quickly than I expect. We'll see what happens when that's done and if I even want more resources at that point... If I reach the epilogue first, I might also just take that as an opportunity to stop playing.

 

[Eishtmo]

I almost never use Casts. Unless I get Festive Fog, I usually just chase things down and beat them to death. Though my favorite Cast was combining Festive Fog with a chill effect and lightning. Ate through the big man like he was nothing.

Of course, I also forget to use my companions in the filed, a lot. End up with like 3 Bouldy's by the last fight and STILL forget it's there. Ah well, at least I have fun.

 

[karzac]

Count me as another vote in favour of Aphrodite cast plus Hera aspect on the bow ( that's the one that loads casts). It turns your bow into an abusrdly strong shotgun.

 

[estragon]

It turns out that the cast loading shield is one of the hidden aspects, so I guess I will be using a cast loading weapon after all.

I had another Darkness boosted weapon pop up (fist) that needed 4 Heat for bounties, so I did a second EM3 run and cleared it this time! I still did a really bad job on the EM3 Theseus fight, but this build was much better suited for Styx and the final boss so it didn't matter that I blew threw 2 lives on EM3 Theseus again.

Also I lucked into into Divine Dash and a total of 5 charges of dashing, which is a pretty good emergency escape from basically anything. That let me freak out a little less and slow down to learn what's going on in that EM3 boss battle a bit better. I think that the first time in that fight I went stupid seeing how Theseus transformed and it threw me off, but now I'm realizing that even EM3 Theseus is still not actually all that aggressive and mostly follows a pretty rote pattern, so I need to chill out and pay more attention to the minotaur who does huge AoE damage now...

 

[aturtledoesbite]

yeah theseus is, frankly, easier on EM than not
asterius is absolutely the more relevant threat, and EM makes some of his attacks trickier to avoid

 

[Neo Skimbleshanks]

This is just reminding me of how, somehow, I thought there were two minotaurs in this game for the longest time. I played it for dozens of hours, was terrible at it, didn't like the writing. Verrrry foolish...

Anyway, enjoy. Most people do!

 

[estragon]

I'm having trouble seeing the use case for the Guan Yu spear. The healing attack is really slow, and having your HP cut by 50-70% is a pretty steep penalty. I feel like either you probably either know the game well enough to not really need the heals, or you haven't learned it well enough and it's very hard to execute the heals. It just seems like there's a very narrow level of proficiency where Guan Yu would be ideal. (I guess when you are so incredibly good that the HP penalty doesn't matter and also you don't need the heals. But it's not like the base damage is so good that you would choose it over any other high base damage hidden 4th aspect...) I made a run work so I could check that the Prophecy off the checklist by just focusing on max life ups to mitigate the penalty, but I can't see every using it again.

The other hidden 4th aspects though are all very fun and seem to all have a reason to use them!

And having tried loading casts now, I would definitely rather have a normal cast than load casts into a shield charge, but I can't disagree that it's totally broken in your favor, and I like it more than the other 3 shields, so.... I guess I'm going to do cast loading when shields come up.

This is just reminding me of how, somehow, I thought there were two minotaurs in this game for the longest time. I played it for dozens of hours, was terrible at it, didn't like the writing. Verrrry foolish...

Anyway, enjoy. Most people do!

I am enjoying it a lot, although I do think the best thing about Hades is the part where you already owned Pyre but never played it, and so, although you want to buy Hades because everyone seems to love it, you finally get around playing Pyre first out of a sense of obligation because it feels wasteful to just horde a bunch of unplayed games, and then Pyre ends up being basically exactly what you want in a game, basically everything you could have possibly wanted, so then Hades is kind of a let down by comparison, no matter how much you do enjoy Hades for what it is.