• Welcome to Talking Time's third iteration! If you would like to register for an account, or have already registered but have not yet been confirmed, please read the following:

    1. The CAPTCHA key's answer is "Percy"
    2. Once you've completed the registration process please email us from the email you used for registration at percyreghelper@gmail.com and include the username you used for registration

    Once you have completed these steps, Moderation Staff will be able to get your account approved.

Gunnerkrigg status: Still rad!

The only verb I can think of for what is being done here is "crippling". KatAna are crippling their opponent, and I have a hard time seeing that as ever a 100% morally good action. Without getting into spoilers, I had a similar reaction to the "celebration" of a similar move happening in Avatar: The Last Airbender back in the day. Additionally, Kat's portrayal in the system and her distinct notes about reality not moving fast enough seem to be drawing a comparison between her and Omega as a sort of "before and after". Kat is (almost literally) seconds away from being able to plug herself into the same unfettered omnipotence as Omega.

With Zimmy's visions and other "warnings" throughout the story, there has always been the possibility that Kat was going to "go too far" into her techno godhood. This looks like the tipping point on that, and I subjectively do not like that that is happening.

(Mind you, this is a story. I do not like that this is happening because I like Kat, and I don't want her to be in a bad situation. Within the universe, Kat is friend-shaped, and I would like that to continue. I like "the story" around it, because it is tense, interesting, and fun. Just want to be clear that this isn't like "Gunnerkrigg/Siddell" is wrong for going down this path.)
 
While I'm over here going "good, the dictator who was basically committing war crimes went on trial, lost, escaped/went into exile/took a hostage, was found and is now getting stripped of her power as she should be".

I think they're being quite nice and accommodating to her. It's like being put on house arrest rather than going to prison.
 
Violentvixen said:
While I'm over here going "good, the dictator who was basically committing war crimes went on trial, lost, escaped/went into exile/took a hostage, was found and is now getting stripped of her power as she should be".

I think they're being quite nice and accommodating to her. It's like being put on house arrest rather than going to prison.
Click to expand...
I'm in this boat, yeah.
 
Violentvixen said:
While I'm over here going "good, the dictator who was basically committing war crimes went on trial, lost, escaped/went into exile/took a hostage, was found and is now getting stripped of her power as she should be".

I think they're being quite nice and accommodating to her. It's like being put on house arrest rather than going to prison.
Click to expand...
I personally don't see why I can't feel both this, and what gogglebob is describing in the post before yours. They are not mutually exclusive in my mind. Situations IRL are morally complex, and so is this.

Also, I feel compelled to note that both prison and house arrest are merely restraints on a person's mobility, and neither are considered unfair or cruel and usual punishment. It's a poor comparison to what is happening to Omega where her physical personhood is being attacked, and she is being robbed of her innate abilities/senses. It's more akin to trying to limit someone's mobility not by incarceration, but by putting bolts through someone's achilles tendons.

gogglebob said:
throughout the story, there has always been the possibility that Kat was going to "go too far" into her techno godhood. This looks like the tipping point on that, and I subjectively do not like that that is happening.
Click to expand...
That you can even begin to accurately describe what she's doing as an evolution into "techno godhood" is already incredibly alarming and morally bankrupt. Kat has been playing god for years (in our pov as readers) now, and shows almost no self-awareness of what she's doing, or even an iota of thought or concern put into the ramifications or consequences of what she's doing as well. The only thing saving her from my complete and utter disdain is that she's a minor, but all that really does is make me hate all of the adults in her life for the lack of responsibility and guidance they've provided her.
 
Last edited:
I will always have sympathies for Zimmy, but I'm with VV here. Also, I assume that this is just a temporary thing, and she will be able to see again. No idea why I assume that, but that's it for the moment. We'll see how it turns out. But as I see it, what was happening had to be stopped, and that seems to be the way that would hurt Zimmy the least they could think of. If you do horrible things, and put people in a position of defending yourself against you, or being your victim, people will defend themselves.

Doesn't mean it's perfect. But if you are in that position, were only a grey answer is left for you to defend yourself, I guess that's what you take. And I know, that is inherently in problematic territory, and people use this reasoning very easily to do horrible things. But considering what we know, I still think Zimmy is treated rather nicely, considering what she had done. That this is the best way they could come up with. If Annie and Kat could have come up with a solution that would have hurt her less, they would have done so. My memory on GC is hazy, but iirc, both have always been sympathetic to Zimmy. I assume they weren't happy to have gone where they had to, but that it was what was necessary, to end the situation.

And yes, Kat is ALSO happy about getting more powerful, not because she likes power, but because she finds it all fascinating. And this will lead to problematic consequences. That's why this is a good comic, that I have been reading for, uh, 14(?) years now.
 
WisteriaHysteria said:
I personally don't see why I can't feel both this, and what gogglebob is describing in the post before yours. They are not mutually exclusive in my mind. Situations IRL are morally complex, and so is this.
Click to expand...

I feel like we're missing each other's points here. I'm definitely not saying you can't feel that way! I just only feel this and feel it quite strongly. Both and everything in between are fine.

WisteriaHysteria said:
Also, I feel compelled to note that both prison and house arrest are merely restraints on a person's mobility, and neither are considered unfair or cruel and usual punishment. It's a poor comparison to what is happening to Omega where her physical personhood is being attacked, and she is being robbed of her innate abilities/senses. It's more akin to trying to limit someone's mobility not by incarceration, but by putting bolts through someone's achilles tendons.
Click to expand...

This though, I absolutely disagree. I have family that has both worked in and been inmates in prisons and I've volunteered there myself. People are NOT treated like people in prisons. It's a horrible experience that leaves you scarred for life. Wearing an ankle bracelet for a while does not compare.
 
Violentvixen said:
This though, I absolutely disagree. I have family that has both worked in and been inmates in prisons and I've volunteered there myself. People are NOT treated like people in prisons. It's a horrible experience that leaves you scarred for life. Wearing an ankle bracelet for a while does not compare.
Click to expand...
The way America does most of its prisons are obscene and dehumanizing, sure. But it does not always have to be an inherently cruel institution, only when cruel people are allowed to make it so. See: places like Sweden or Germany that actually treat prisoners like people and focus on rehabilitation versus institutionalized barbarism.

Mental scars are not a good thing and I'm not trying to diminish the consequences and severity, but physically and permanently disabling someone is categorically evil punishment IRL, where as prison doesn't always have to be so.
 
Yeah, I knew this is where it was going. Still doesn’t feel great though. The whole scenario reminded me of the episode of Star Trek TNG where Deanna Troi temporarily loses her psychic powers and how deeply unsettling it is to her. Her crashout and explanation of what it felt like really echoed how Omega reacted and was extremely uncomfortable, and continues to be uncomfortable regardless of how easily Omega is handling this all.
 
Meanwhile I've thought of it more using a different TNG reference. To me it felt more like when the Continuuim dumped Q powerless on the Enterprise, and like, sure. Logically I know it must have been like losing an enormous part of himself, but it was just too impossible to fathom what going from omnipotent to not even feels like. (Also didn't help that Q was an outright antagonistic force up to that point who used his now lost powers to facilitate that, kind of like Omega.)

In Troi's case on the other hand, I might not be an empath but my mind could fill in the blanks and help visualize what that loss was like. In Q and Omega's case the loss is just too abstract for me to even feel bad about. Sorry you don't have superpowers anymore I guess??

Anyway be sure and tell those girls all about this Annie, they look like they want to help.
 
Troi's whole storyline was an abstract, scifi way of examining what it would be like, to suddenly find yourself handicapped. The gauntlet of emotions someone might expect to feel, and ultimately, how our abilities don't define or restrict who we are as people or how we can still contribute to society. Troi is able to come to terms with her new situation and is able to more than compensate for the sudden loss of one of her core senses. It's not a sad story or a tragedy at its core, if anything it's a story of empowerment and self-actualization. But the process of grief she goes through is still harrowing and not something I'd wish on someone, or take pleasure in observing, even if it was still a completely justified scenario like we find ourselves with here in Gunnerkrigg Court. Which, btw, is 100% justified and necessary given the circumstances/scenario. It's just... very unpleasant!
 
Basically what I was saying earlier: If I witnessed a person wrestle a potential menace with omnipotence to the ground and win, I would not think the victor was my hero. I would think "Oh, wow, she's the bigger threat." Pretty reasonable reaction.
 
gogglebob said:
Basically what I was saying earlier: If I witnessed a person wrestle a potential menace with omnipotence to the ground and win, I would not think the victor was my hero. I would think "Oh, wow, she's the bigger threat." Pretty reasonable reaction.
Click to expand...
Sure, but I would also maybe be a little shook about it too, not like, "oh well" nonchalance.
 
New user icon dropped
renard.png
 
Inscrutable elder race who expects you to know what you did wrong, you idiot trope always annoys the everliving hell outta me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top