Godzilla Threads Again!

[Paul le Fou]

I enjoyed Godzilla vs Kong, but I thought it was the weakest of the Monsterverse movies so far.

-This had some of the best MONKE PUANCH LIZARD big-monster fights of the series, although once or twice (especially during the last fight with Mechagodzilla) the monsters lost a bit of their massive weightiness and felt a little CG-light. The boats carrying both of them (and not immediately capsizing) beggared belief a bit, too.
-I liked that Kong was an actual character, and the sign language was obvious in retrospect but still a good moment.
-I'm still not entirely sure why Godzilla was after him except just because "Godzilla goes after other titans." I guess they did have that ancient war etc etc, but even with the lore they peppered around it felt like a flimsy excuse to bash the action figures together.
-Madison/Bernie/Josh served literally no purpose in this story and should have been cut from the script. Also they did Madison dirty after the last movie by making her a conspiracy nut.
-Dollar Store Tom Brady and scientist lady's story felt really loose too but at least they went along with Kong; with the development time wasted on the conspiracy arm redirected to them, they could have actually had good development.
-I have just been informed/reminded that Dollar Store Tom Brady is Alexander Skarsgard, which I think is very unfortunate for Alexander Skarsgard.
-I realized toward the end of this movie that what I really want is a movie starring giant monsters with as little human presence as possible, preferably the absolute bare minimum to establish the scale and presence of the monsters. Kong here proves that it could totally work.
-Despite going 100% comic book wacky sci-fantasy full of "Don't bother asking" questions, at least Hollow Earth was pretty cool. I do wish that Mechagodzilla had factored into the plot more than just being a macguffin-cum-final-boss.
-Was the Apex second-in-command seriously supposed to be Serizawa's son? Talk about a bad story decision that didn't get paid off, and about doing earlier characters dirty.


Someone above mentioned wondering what Kong's axe was made of, but I thought it was perfectly clear: The shaft was a huge bone, so probably a godzilla or big-monke bone, and the axehead was definitely made from a Godzilla back-plate. (Not necessarily from Godzilla himself, but definitely from a godzilla.) It glowed the same blue, channeled and blocked the same Godzilla Energy both in the carvings and during the fight, etc.

My copy of Dawn of the Planet of the Apes was somehow missing the subtitle track for the ASL and I spent the first twenty minutes thinking "THIS IS SO BOLD. THIS IS AN ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE WAY TO DO THIS MOVIE" and then was so bummed when I figured it out.

I think this exact same thing happened to me, including the appreciative awe -> disappointment.

Similar to when I started Battlestar Galactica at the first episode of the TV series and thought it was a brilliant, bold, incredible way to launch a series, only to realize there had been a very normal pilot movie/miniseries I hadn't known about.

 

[Adrenaline]

-Madison/Bernie/Josh served literally no purpose in this story and should have been cut from the script. Also they did Madison dirty after the last movie by making her a conspiracy nut.

Hey man. They broke the computer so Kong could beat Mechagodzilla.

 

[Neo Skimbleshanks]

Alexander Skarsgård has never looked hotter or been more recognizable. (he looks like Alexander Skarsgård) Loved his kinda beta weasel voice here. Although he was a Kong character he fulfilled the Godzilla film role of handsome dweeb for whom I wished the best. (no previous Legendary Monster film had that) (though again, cannot remember Kong: Skull Island)

 

[Zef]

Which, TBH, feels like a cop-out. Neither of the titular monsters could fight the man-made monstrosity until a computer was smashed, which somehow did something to a satellite, which somehow did something to Mechagoji's weapons? I thought the whole point of Kevin's head was to use the telepathic connection stated just minutes before. This whole bit could be sidestepped if said characters didn't exist and the two main stars would look even better.

 

[Adrenaline]

Those characters exist to give us a point of view on Apex and unravel the mystery of why Godzilla is acting differently, and see what the bad guy's full plan is. I don't know that all of that stuff was needed with Team Kong already adding the human element, but that's really why it's there.

 

[Sprite]

-I'm still not entirely sure why Godzilla was after him except just because "Godzilla goes after other titans."

Godzilla has to be every monster’s dad because otherwise they just wreck stuff for no reason. Kong doesn’t wreck stuff for no reason but G-dad doesn’t know that.

Basically, Godzilla was on his way to Target to get Monster Zero/Mechagodzilla, then saw Kong on an endcap and decided, well, while I’m here I might as well. Kong’s on the level of those lesser monsters we saw at the end of KoM which submitted easily, so G thought it’d just be a matter of showing up and getting K to bend the knee.

 

[Paul le Fou]

Which, TBH, feels like a cop-out. Neither of the titular monsters could fight the man-made monstrosity until a computer was smashed, which somehow did something to a satellite, which somehow did something to Mechagoji's weapons? I thought the whole point of Kevin's head was to use the telepathic connection stated just minutes before. This whole bit could be sidestepped if said characters didn't exist and the two main stars would look even better.

Yeah, that resolution was awful - a cheesy cop-out that didn't really make any sense at all.

Those characters exist to give us a point of view on Apex and unravel the mystery of why Godzilla is acting differently, and see what the bad guy's full plan is. I don't know that all of that stuff was needed with Team Kong already adding the human element, but that's really why it's there.

Maybe, but we didn't need them at all for that; we could have followed any of a number of other characters, like Serizawa (thereby actually developing the link to one of the key characters of the previous Godzilla movies instead of including him almost offhandedly), or just one of them - Madison investigating and infiltrating entirely on her own, for example. As for revealing the bad guy's plan, beyond a few very simple intimations, they cut it short and left it unexplained and made a joke about it, so, so much for that. Hell, most of the times we saw Apex Dudes with any actual revelatory/expository stuff, it didn't include those characters at all, emphasizing how easily they could have handled that without them.

 

[Tomm Guycot]

Yes, I would have much preferred

Spoiler

having an arc where Serizawa had some kind of reason for doing this but was then (apparently) subverted by Gidorah's will. If it was a well-meaning but misguided motivation, Mecha's defeat is a roundabout revenge on behalf of elder Serizawa, which has some pathos to it. Much better than just misusing Madison.

 

[Adrenaline]

For the record here's my MonsterVerse ranking

1. Godzilla
2. Kong: Skull Island
3. Godzilla vs. Kong
4. Godzilla: King of the Monsters

 

[Tomm Guycot]

For me,

1. Godzilla
2. Godzilla v Kong
3. Godzilla: KoM
4. Kong: Skull Island

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Godzilla vs Kong is generally a good time. But what's flying under everyone's radar and shouldn't is Godzilla S.P. last posted about in this thread a half a year ago. I've watched the first two episodes and it slaps.

I read some trepidation at the beginning of this thread since Netflix's last few Godzilla anime wasn't all that great. Fear not, this is being made by completely different people. Those previous ones were by Polygon Pictures - purveyors of intensely mediocre anime made exclusively with bad CGI. This one is being made in a joint collab by Studio Bones (probably the best large studio in the industry) and Studio Orange (best CGI-house in anime). It's stuck in Netflix Jail for now, so you can either sail the seven seas or wait until like August at the earliest to binge it.

 

[Kirin]

Yeah, I'm down, but my sailing skills are rusty so shoot us a reminder when it's out of jail in the US.

 

[Daikaiju]

Now someone give Gamera the big money love.

 

[John]

Ebirah, Horror of the Deep - Now Godzilla shifts to a James Bond type scenario, where an Evil Terrorist Organization is harvesting Heavy Water in order to make nuclear weapons. Oh, and there's a giant lobster guarding the island, which is only deterred by lemon juice. They introduced a scoundrel type character who can pick any lock, and Mothra's back for some reason. Pretty good.

Son of Godzilla - Here's the dumb fun again. The giant praying mantis' are really well done, and Baby Zilla's adorable. The spider’s a great puppet as well, their non-rubber suits are top notch. I liked all the fake-outs, from the spider faking its death to the submarine at the end. Baby Zilla had to be an inspiration for Baby Sinclair.

 

[Daikaiju]

 

[John]

More old movie impressions!

Destroy All Monsters - For a team up movie, I was hoping this would've been better, but the human plot was just kinda blah and boring. It felt like a reprise of what they did in Invasion of Astro-Monster but slower. The actual monster team-up beatdown was solid though, seeing Godzilla brutally curb stomp King Ghidorah's heads was satisfying.

All Monsters Attack - I had read it was a clip show and considered skipping it, but I'm glad I watched it. A nice small scale story about a little kid who's bullied, and how he gains some confidence by being kidnapped by bank robbers. He imagines that Minilla (Son of Godzilla) is his friend, because he doesn't have many, and his parents aren't home most of the time. Only thing I didn't like was he solves his bully problem by becoming one himself.

And some new-ish movie impressions:

Godzilla (2014) - This was fine. Watched it a week ago, don't remember much from it. Neither good or bad, just was there.

Kong - Skull Island - No Godzillas. Fun Vietnam movie, as much as the Vietnam war could be considered fun. It was nice seeing Marvel people work outside of their lanes.

Godzilla - King of the Monsters - There was a whole lot of dumb in this movie. I did like all the references to earlier movies, but every human was a caricature of what an actual person would be in their situation. Also, Rodan taking the heel turn and killing Mothra was a shitty move. I think I conflated the plot of this one with Destroy All Monsters, and was confused why Rodan would do that if Ghidorah no longer was controlling everyone, but then I remembered that one scene when Rodan bowed to the King. Kinda fun movie, but everyone was too dumb.

Only a few more Showa movies left, hope I can get through them before Godzilla vs Kong is removed from HBO Max.

 

[Johnny Unusual]

Godzilla (2014) - This was fine. Watched it a week ago, don't remember much from it. Neither good or bad, just was there.

This was a movie that did some great things and dumb things. Killing Bryan Cranston and making the very boring (in this movie) Aaron-Taylor Johnson the lead. is one of the bad. Wasting Ken Watanabe as basically the same character as Bryan Cranston and being an exposition machine. Not good. News chirons at the ends saying "Godzilla.... Hero?" Hilariously inexplicable considering while he killed bad monsters, the movie makes it SUPER clear he is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocents (this feels like a last minute edit not from the director). But I loved the film's sense of scale and some cool surprise moments.

 

[John]

Godzilla vs. Hedora - Environmentalism? In a Godzilla movie? It's more likely than you think.

This one's weird, feels like a hippie student film that got the budget for a kaiju movie. Instead of a ton of miniatures work, they spent the budget on body counts and camera effects. They kill thousands of people, some on screen getting disintegrated by sulfuric acid gas. Godzilla gets torn up in this one! Acid burns to the face and hands, blinded in one eye.

This one definitely doesn't fit the mold of the others, it feels like someone watched The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly and liked its cinematography, but also was really high at the time and didn't quite remember how it went. I liked this one a lot.

 

[Neo Skimbleshanks]

Losing my mind listening to people (on podcasts, whatever) complain that there was no winner in Godzilla vs. Kong. Godzilla won! This seemed clear to me...

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Losing my mind listening to people (on podcasts, whatever) complain that there was no winner in Godzilla vs. Kong. Godzilla won! This seemed clear to me...

The winner was us. We got to see a beeg monke and a beeg lizzy duke it out for a while.

 

[Sprite]

Losing my mind listening to people (on podcasts, whatever) complain that there was no winner in Godzilla vs. Kong. Godzilla won! This seemed clear to me...

Yeah, no question. Kong got what he wanted because he earned Godzilla’s respect and won’t be forced to submit, but in terms of the actual fight, Godzilla trounced him. It seemed pretty decisive to me!

 

[Paul le Fou]

I could see thinking it was a bit ambiguous because after Godzilla won, he then was about to lose another fight without Kong's help, and Godzilla gave him the nod and went out to sea and left Kong standing, so you MIGHT be forgiven for thinking that they ended on equal terms. But no, Godzilla won, but was thankful to/had respect for Kong after he saved G's bacon.

 

[Bongo]

KONG WON Godzilla's respect

 

[Sprite]

I love it because it gives Godzilla an arc of coming to terms with his hubris. He didn’t need to slap down two monsters in one day, but assumed he could, so why not? Then this freaking monkey puts up such a good fight that Godzilla is too beat up to deal with the actual threat, which helps G realize that maybe, just maybe, he doesn’t have to be everyone’s dad.

 

[Octopus Prime]

Singular Point is on Netflix now.

I am watching the first episode now; that’s how you can tell I am speaking truthfully

 

[Kirin]

Oh dang, thanks for the heads up. Gonna have to work that into our rotation soon.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

Singular Point is on Netflix now.

It's really good. I dug the conclusion. This is easily the best Godzilla-thing since Shin.

If you're gonna watch it subbed, and aren't afraid of sailing the seven seas, consider downloading the fansubs for this. Netflix's subs aren't the worst thing in the world, but they're kinda bad, riddled with errors, and make understanding a lot of the more technical aspects of the show harder.

 

[Kirin]

Curious if the dub is better than the NF subs, since that'll probably be my partner's preference if it's not completely terrible.

 

[air_show]

Godzilla vs Kong

is one of my favorite Godzilla movies now. I say this every time a new American film comes out and I don't know if that makes me a traitor or something but I'm pretty bored with Toho's insistence on Godzilla doing as little as possible and be as far from a character as possible. Even accounting for the original '54 classic they seem repeatedly intent on swinging the needle way too far past it because even though 54 Godzilla is more of a thing than his later more cartoonish Showa incarnations he wasn't a mindless zombie and had a mournfulness to him that gave him personality.

That's not a fucking problem in Godzilla vs Kong, because he is a fucking character here. Part of that is because it's not even his movie!

That's right, despite getting top billing in the title, Godzilla is not the main monster. It's Kong's film. It's his hero journey. Godzilla already got that stuff back in King of the Monsters, so here he just gets to be the straight up antagonist. But they handle it in a brilliant way. He's the bad guy, but not like The Villian, the Threat that Must Be Defeated for a happy ending. It's a way for Godzilla to just be this relentless and sometimes terrifyingly powerful asshole that just won't stop insisting on trying to Kill Kong. It even makes it feel kind of fun to watch Mechagodzilla give him a taste of his own medicine.

Also the movie is a ridiculously stupid CARTOON and I love it. It feels like that oldschool flavor Showa Goodness with a coat of Marvel Movie Polish thrown on top. It's even got a group of Likeable Idiots headed up by Monarch Daughter, who is an absurd charicature of a conspiracy theorist now but is correct to be so because this is a ridiculous cartoon universe now with mustache twirling supervillains who toy with science and put things in the drinking water and also the Hollow Earth is real and it's like some kind of awesome Conan Monster Island Shit.

The only thing that fell flat for me was the ridiculous attempt to have that "tearful reunion" scene with Monarch Dad at the end, who could have been cut from the plot completely because there is nothing dramatically potent about Monarch Daughter clumsily idioting her way into the secret lair of some powerful yet strangely incompetent super villains. Not after you made a movie about lizard vs monke and then robot vs lizard and then monke vs robot. That's where my heart was. That's the story I cared about.

I do mean it by the way, there are interesting layers to this film.

Spoiler: layer 1

One tradition that occurs in most Kong movies is the fact that nobody ever actually refers to him as King Kong. There'll be a scene where someone references him as a King, but never uses the full title. This movie doesn't do that verbally, but it sure as shit does it visually at one point.

Spoiler: layer 2

The fact that Mechagodzilla instantly gains sentience and turns on his creators is FUCKING WONDERFUL and everything I ever wanted. These guys get it Evil Mechagodzilla is Best Mechagodzilla.

Some people have complained about the fact that there isn't any backstory given to the pilot, named Serizawa but otherwise not acknowledged that he's the son of the Dr. Serizawa that sacrificed himself in the previous film. I don't think it's necessary though. It's more than easy to put the pieces together. Dr. Serizawa spent his life studying Godzilla and neglected his son, who in turn grew up to want to pilot Mechagodzilla to kill Godzilla. Then Kevin's Head gave Mechagodzilla sentience and he goes on a rampage. Easy peasy now let them fight.

Spoiler: layer 3

I don't know if they're going to make more of these movies. I honestly am ok if they don't, I loved the 3 we got enough to not get greedy. But I can't help but think it would be fun if the Hollow Earth eventually ends up serving as this universe's Monster Island, with Godzilla controlling one land mass and Kong controlling the opposite landmass and the monsters loyal to each being on each side. Rodan and Mothra both should be on Godzilla's side for the record, but Mothra would likely act as peacekeeper as often as she can. Are these layers or just me geeking out about stuff?

 

[air_show]

I love it because it gives Godzilla an arc of coming to terms with his hubris. He didn’t need to slap down two monsters in one day, but assumed he could, so why not? Then this freaking monkey puts up such a good fight that Godzilla is too beat up to deal with the actual threat, which helps G realize that maybe, just maybe, he doesn’t have to be everyone’s dad.

I completely agree. There's a brief camera shot at the end as he's leaving that tells me his "mercy" in not attacking Kong again is actually him just being too damn old and exhausted to want to fight more.