Yeah, the visuals for the DQ3 remake on SFC and GB are really good. I like how the characters look like little gummies.
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Dragon Quest - Like a Dargon
- Thread starter WildcatJF
- Start date
Yeah, the visuals for the DQ3 remake on SFC and GB are really good. I like how the characters look like little gummies.
It’s so charming! I seriously feel like if there was a larger screen field of view I would stick to the GBC version forever.
DQVI feels like a game where no one said no to any idea, for better or for worse. This leads to a lot of very fun touches, like how the first major boss after you get the legendary equipment steals them from you if you lose, so you have to win without them to get them back. I thought this might just be flavor text and then laughed out loud when I saw the protagonist's empty inventory and had to put together a totally new set of equipment by taking out money from the bank and borrowing a few things from infrequently used party members. It also leads to a feeling of the game being very expansive. It's completely ridiculous to have a Vocation focused on monster recruitment in this game that already gives you a very full party of human members. It completely unnecessary, and I can see why it was reduced to just having a handful of recruitable Slimes in the DS game to make the Slime Arena sidequest function. (They should have just left it in, though.)
On the other hand, now that I've reached the final dungeon, it's definitely confirming my memory that there's just not enough game for the Vocation system. In most Dragon Quest games, when people say that you need to grind I don't understand what they're talking about. These games make you fight a lot of battles, so I tend to end up overleveled, not underlevelled. DQIV FC and DQV SFC were games you could easily beat by just playing without a guide, because you're going to naturally fight a ton of battles. Here, by introducing a system based on the raw number of battles instead of scaling EXP, it's pretty easy to end up at the end boss with a party that isn't particularly good and having no solution to that beyond grinding out 100s of mindless battles in one of the areas that the game counts as strong enough to contribute to your battle count toward levelling up vocations regardless of your character level. I don't love it.
DQVII uses mostly the same Vocation system, but it doesn't have this problem because the game is ridiculously long, so all of your charcters will have a good amount of time to master more vocations. This means you in DQVII get to have fun with the Vocation system even if you're not going in with prior knowledge or using a guide to optimize, while in DQVI you really should just take each charcter down an optimal route because you're likely to end up in the end with just enough battles fought to be halfway through one advanced Vocation. If you went off the beaten path at any point or even put a character on a path to be a Ranger (which requires 3 basic Vocations and also is not particularly good), that character will probably just not reach the good stuff before the game ends.
On the other hand, now that I've reached the final dungeon, it's definitely confirming my memory that there's just not enough game for the Vocation system. In most Dragon Quest games, when people say that you need to grind I don't understand what they're talking about. These games make you fight a lot of battles, so I tend to end up overleveled, not underlevelled. DQIV FC and DQV SFC were games you could easily beat by just playing without a guide, because you're going to naturally fight a ton of battles. Here, by introducing a system based on the raw number of battles instead of scaling EXP, it's pretty easy to end up at the end boss with a party that isn't particularly good and having no solution to that beyond grinding out 100s of mindless battles in one of the areas that the game counts as strong enough to contribute to your battle count toward levelling up vocations regardless of your character level. I don't love it.
DQVII uses mostly the same Vocation system, but it doesn't have this problem because the game is ridiculously long, so all of your charcters will have a good amount of time to master more vocations. This means you in DQVII get to have fun with the Vocation system even if you're not going in with prior knowledge or using a guide to optimize, while in DQVI you really should just take each charcter down an optimal route because you're likely to end up in the end with just enough battles fought to be halfway through one advanced Vocation. If you went off the beaten path at any point or even put a character on a path to be a Ranger (which requires 3 basic Vocations and also is not particularly good), that character will probably just not reach the good stuff before the game ends.
Oh, also: The DQIII remake received a balanced and QOL patch. It looks like it addresses many of the common criticisms about the game.
I do wonder what this means:
One of the things probably no one else cares about that has made me less interested in the DQIII HD remake is that spells that used to lower enemy defense now instead offer a percentage buff to damage dealt by attackers. This means Sap does less to help characters who are already having trouble dealing damage, because a percentage increase to 0 or 1 still means a character is dealing no or next to no damage. I would like it if this was reverted to the original effect of lowering defense, but my guess is that if they reworked buffs/debuffs they would say that explicitly. This probably just means they changed how Luck affects damage, I would guess.
I do wonder what this means:
One of the things probably no one else cares about that has made me less interested in the DQIII HD remake is that spells that used to lower enemy defense now instead offer a percentage buff to damage dealt by attackers. This means Sap does less to help characters who are already having trouble dealing damage, because a percentage increase to 0 or 1 still means a character is dealing no or next to no damage. I would like it if this was reverted to the original effect of lowering defense, but my guess is that if they reworked buffs/debuffs they would say that explicitly. This probably just means they changed how Luck affects damage, I would guess.
My run through Dragon Quest XI was on pause for a little while, but I picked it back up a day or two ago. I had originally stopped right before the end of Act 1, turns out, which was probably for the best. Because once I started back up and set about clearing all the side quests I was neglecting I moved the plot forward and literally three rooms ahead of where I stopped everything went right to hell. I guess if you've played the game you know exactly what happened.
What I wasn't expecting was for the sudden forward momentum of the plot to then come to a screeching halt as I was stuck with Sylvando for an hour. Then Jade, Erik, and Rab. Thankfully their scenarios were mercifully shorter than Sylvando's, though I damn-near died of cringe during Jade's. (Seriously, Jade has to deal with the slobbering bad-touch demon while effing Erik got to have the totally unearned cinematic battle against impossible odds?) By the time I got into Rab's I felt something had to be up, so I looked up discussion around these little interludes and discovered they were added in the Definitive Edition? So, like, in the original game things went right from everything going to pot to the actual next logical point instead of faffing about with the party?
Seriously, what the hell? It's like if they remade FF6, but instead of cutting right to one year later after Kefka blew the world up we instead spent time following every party member as they eventually ended up where they are in the World of Ruin while accomplishing nothing but wasting time. Feels kind of shitty that I now know exactly where the party is instead of getting to have that be a sort of mystery. I understand there were other additions in the Definitive Edition that folks didn't like but for the most part I was fine with the changes since I never experienced the game in its original form, but this first bit of new content I can say as a newcomer kind of bites.
What I wasn't expecting was for the sudden forward momentum of the plot to then come to a screeching halt as I was stuck with Sylvando for an hour. Then Jade, Erik, and Rab. Thankfully their scenarios were mercifully shorter than Sylvando's, though I damn-near died of cringe during Jade's. (Seriously, Jade has to deal with the slobbering bad-touch demon while effing Erik got to have the totally unearned cinematic battle against impossible odds?) By the time I got into Rab's I felt something had to be up, so I looked up discussion around these little interludes and discovered they were added in the Definitive Edition? So, like, in the original game things went right from everything going to pot to the actual next logical point instead of faffing about with the party?
Seriously, what the hell? It's like if they remade FF6, but instead of cutting right to one year later after Kefka blew the world up we instead spent time following every party member as they eventually ended up where they are in the World of Ruin while accomplishing nothing but wasting time. Feels kind of shitty that I now know exactly where the party is instead of getting to have that be a sort of mystery. I understand there were other additions in the Definitive Edition that folks didn't like but for the most part I was fine with the changes since I never experienced the game in its original form, but this first bit of new content I can say as a newcomer kind of bites.
Becksworth
Aging Hipster Dragon Dad
Hey DQ III got a performance boost on Switch 2. I might get around to checking it out now...
Sarge
hardcore retro gamin'
Okay, yeah, DQ I/II looks great. Extra party member, even! I'm okay with that, I've played through the NES game many, many times and beat the SNES version a couple of years ago. (For the record, I preferred the NES version.)
Also, with that performance boost, I kinda wish I'd bought DQIII on Switch now. I got it on PS5 instead so I could get that 60 FPS action.
Also, with that performance boost, I kinda wish I'd bought DQIII on Switch now. I got it on PS5 instead so I could get that 60 FPS action.
I am most interested in this version of DQ1. Hopefully its higher difficulty setting maintains the excellent tension the game always has, but I gotta admit I am wary of them adding in multi-enemy groups. It could be very cool to see a version of this game though that has the post-DQ1 series staple version of the Hero loadout.
I hope the game has multiple voice clips of Princess Gwaelin saying "but thou must!", that gets increasingly insistent the more times you say no.
I'm nearing the end of Act 2 in DQ11, just have to storm the Fortress of Fear, so of course I take a detour to do all the Tickington sidequests up to this point. I've cleared all the ones I can currently complete, still a few annoying glowing tablets but I can't clear them all until I get the remaining Pastwords in Act 3, but there's one last one I can do right now that kind of stonewalled me: the third quest in the DQ3 tablet. This one ends with a battle with Baramos, which is funny because up till now most of these forays into older games dance around the main plot in one way or another. Here you just have to fight straight up actual Baramos, and boy he's a beast. He wiped my party on the first attempt, which I think is the first full party wipe I've had since Gloomnivore?
So if anyone knows, how does this Baramos fight scale compared to whatever I'll be fighting in the Fortress of Fear? Because I'd definitely need to level grind to beat Baramos, but everything else in the main story up to this point hasn't been so bad.
So if anyone knows, how does this Baramos fight scale compared to whatever I'll be fighting in the Fortress of Fear? Because I'd definitely need to level grind to beat Baramos, but everything else in the main story up to this point hasn't been so bad.
Isrieri
My father told me this would happen
I haven't played the Deluxe version of XI but if Baramos resembles how he was in the remakes of III, beating him probably means you'll be good to go for the fortress: The penultimate boss there gave me a ton of trouble because its also a case of 'kill him before he kills you' so staying alive is almost a secondary priority to getting your hits in. The enemies in the fortress I suspect you'll be ready for.
Kaclang is actually a way to get past some of Baramos' worst stuff that he chucks at you in the first few rounds, if you have it.
Well it took a bit but that's a wrap on Dragon Quest 11. Mordegon is down, Yggdrasil is restored and everything is settled. Sucks about Veronica, but it's impressive they stuck with a major character death like that. Not sure what that To Be Continued message is about, that felt like a pretty definitive end.
*puts a finger to his ear*
There's how much of the game left?
*puts a finger to his ear*
There's how much of the game left?
Tomm Guycot
(he/him)
Yeah I played for a bit further (CRAZY things to come) but ultimately burned out. Hoping to get back to it one day but don't really know when that would be. Have never felt a burning desire other than legitimately enjoying the game as a whole outside of the burnout.
(Similarly loved P5 Royal up until the "Royal" portion, where I just put it down)
I remember that the narrative at the time around here was very much "oh, you need to keep playing, the game's only 2/3rds over", but I don't actually agree. I think, as you say, it feels like a pretty definitive end, and I think it's absolutely reasonable to tap out there and call it done if you'd like it to be over. It's not like the big climactic halfway point where there's clearly so much more story to tell. I played what comes next, and I enjoyed it, because I love DQ11 and could never say no to more DQ11, but it retreads a lot of ground and feels more like post-game than end-game, IMO.
I don't know if every game has its own sequel, or trilogy, or what-have-you, but it is definitely true that most every game in the series has a late-game surprise new final boss.
So Dragon Quest 11 having a big bad fake-out is not at all surprising. What's new here is that they straight up put closing credits, a 'The End' followed by a 'To be Continued' at what is more or less the 2/3rds point (I think?).
Dragon Quest does not, not really. From the onset you're told 'Go killeth yon Dragonlordeth' and the Dragonlord is indeed the final boss. You could say his second form is kind of a surprise, I imagine it was at the time. Every single battle is one-on-one, but then you beat the Dragonlord and a second fight starts immediately from within the same battle screen. So for posterity's sake it sort of counts.
Dragon Quest 2 has you set against Hargon for like 99% of the game, until oops, turns out the baddie is Malroth! This is a literal last minute bait and switch, so it's not like there's some final leg of the game where you're focused on Malroth (maybe in the upcoming HD remake?) but still, it absolutely counts.
Dragon Quest 3 is where the pattern really coalesces. You spend the vast majority of the game dead set on killing Baramos. You explore the entire damn world so you can kill Baramos. There's nothing left to find once you get to his castle. But then you kill him and, whoops, turns out the real big bad is some goober named Zoma, and you get sent to a whole other (familiar) world to fight him there!
Dragon Quest 4 has a little bit of back and forth between its two main baddies. You encounter, or at least hear of, Psaro fairly early on, but eventually your focus becomes taking down Estark. But once you do that, Psaro steps back up to be a NEW Estark! Bigger! Better! Green! Psaro is the first villain in the series to to have more to him than 'hurgh blurgh monsters rule humans drool!' and that's memorable, but in the end his first form is just another Estark. So does he count as a bait and switch? I'd say so.
Dragon Quest 5 almost certainly has a clear three-act structure with each act break punctuated by one tragedy or another. But you still spend most of the game being pursued by or in pursuit of Bishop Ladja. It's not until you put him down that it's revealed you actually have to defeat Grandmaster Nimzo. And that ridiculous name is only the second most memorable thing about him. The most memorable thing is that he is literally a Namekian.
Dragon Quest 6 opens with the main hero and companions trying to defeat Murdaw, and he's the main focus for the first part of the game. But he's taken out relatively quickly compared to the other 'first baddies', but then there's a period where other equally powerful demons pop up, but eventually it's revealed that they're all working for this dork Mortamor. There's a 'sort of' post game quest you can do, but canonically it takes place right before you kill Mortamor so Nocturnus isn't technically another new final boss. He does kill Mortamor for you though if you beat him and I always liked that touch.
Dragon Quest 7 breaks the pattern because there isn't really a fake out first villain. I mean, there kind of is, I guess? You eventually learn Orgodemir is the baddie, but then you kill him. So, new baddie then, right? As it turns out, no. Orgodemir pretends to beGod The Almighty for a hot minute before dropping the pretense and just becoming the final boss. I might be misremembering some sequence of events, because I stalled out on my 3DS playthrough and I only played through the PSX version once when it came out (checks notes) over twenty years ago. Oy.
Dragon Quest 8 has you spend most of the game on the trail of Dhoulmagus. (Or Dhooooooooulmagus according to King Trode) but eventually you corner the bugger and defeat him, and it turns out that evil enchanted staff he's been carrying holds the soul of the ACTUAL baddie, Rhapthorne. Pretty standard bait and switch here, really.
I never played Dragon Quest 9 or Dragon Quest 10 but I assume something similar happens in those games at some point.
Dragon Quest 2 has you set against Hargon for like 99% of the game, until oops, turns out the baddie is Malroth! This is a literal last minute bait and switch, so it's not like there's some final leg of the game where you're focused on Malroth (maybe in the upcoming HD remake?) but still, it absolutely counts.
Dragon Quest 3 is where the pattern really coalesces. You spend the vast majority of the game dead set on killing Baramos. You explore the entire damn world so you can kill Baramos. There's nothing left to find once you get to his castle. But then you kill him and, whoops, turns out the real big bad is some goober named Zoma, and you get sent to a whole other (familiar) world to fight him there!
Dragon Quest 4 has a little bit of back and forth between its two main baddies. You encounter, or at least hear of, Psaro fairly early on, but eventually your focus becomes taking down Estark. But once you do that, Psaro steps back up to be a NEW Estark! Bigger! Better! Green! Psaro is the first villain in the series to to have more to him than 'hurgh blurgh monsters rule humans drool!' and that's memorable, but in the end his first form is just another Estark. So does he count as a bait and switch? I'd say so.
Dragon Quest 5 almost certainly has a clear three-act structure with each act break punctuated by one tragedy or another. But you still spend most of the game being pursued by or in pursuit of Bishop Ladja. It's not until you put him down that it's revealed you actually have to defeat Grandmaster Nimzo. And that ridiculous name is only the second most memorable thing about him. The most memorable thing is that he is literally a Namekian.
Dragon Quest 6 opens with the main hero and companions trying to defeat Murdaw, and he's the main focus for the first part of the game. But he's taken out relatively quickly compared to the other 'first baddies', but then there's a period where other equally powerful demons pop up, but eventually it's revealed that they're all working for this dork Mortamor. There's a 'sort of' post game quest you can do, but canonically it takes place right before you kill Mortamor so Nocturnus isn't technically another new final boss. He does kill Mortamor for you though if you beat him and I always liked that touch.
Dragon Quest 7 breaks the pattern because there isn't really a fake out first villain. I mean, there kind of is, I guess? You eventually learn Orgodemir is the baddie, but then you kill him. So, new baddie then, right? As it turns out, no. Orgodemir pretends to be
Dragon Quest 8 has you spend most of the game on the trail of Dhoulmagus. (Or Dhooooooooulmagus according to King Trode) but eventually you corner the bugger and defeat him, and it turns out that evil enchanted staff he's been carrying holds the soul of the ACTUAL baddie, Rhapthorne. Pretty standard bait and switch here, really.
I never played Dragon Quest 9 or Dragon Quest 10 but I assume something similar happens in those games at some point.
So Dragon Quest 11 having a big bad fake-out is not at all surprising. What's new here is that they straight up put closing credits, a 'The End' followed by a 'To be Continued' at what is more or less the 2/3rds point (I think?).
Yeah, that was a Tim Rogers take. I only quoted it.
DQX has several expansions with complete stories of their own, so that one's more literally true than others. And in IX, after you stop the revived Gittish Empire, there's still Corvus to deal with, and the post-game has an obscure quest around discovering what happened to Zenus by grinding through shitloads of grottoes.
And, of course, in DQVII, the story is about making the world whole again, and the sequel part is about the return of Orgodemir.
Anyway, though, talking about that part of Dragon Quest XI: Act 3 is a sort of a hybrid of typical post-game activities and an ordinary continuation of the story. There's significantly more of it than, for instance, Chapter 6 of DQIV, let alone the grind-focused bonus dungeons of III or VIII. But despite being framed as an act unto itself, there's less story than Act 1 or 2 before it had. Act 2 is definitely a firm and definitive ending with plenty of closure, and it even rolls the credits afterward, and its premise of seemingly undoing half of the story in order to speedrun the underlying mystery definitely rubs some people the wrong way. But I still think it's great. These people are heroes. No way they'd hesitate if they were given the opportunity to give up their memories in exchange for saving more of Mordegon's victims.
DQX has several expansions with complete stories of their own, so that one's more literally true than others. And in IX, after you stop the revived Gittish Empire, there's still Corvus to deal with, and the post-game has an obscure quest around discovering what happened to Zenus by grinding through shitloads of grottoes.
And, of course, in DQVII, the story is about making the world whole again, and the sequel part is about the return of Orgodemir.
Anyway, though, talking about that part of Dragon Quest XI: Act 3 is a sort of a hybrid of typical post-game activities and an ordinary continuation of the story. There's significantly more of it than, for instance, Chapter 6 of DQIV, let alone the grind-focused bonus dungeons of III or VIII. But despite being framed as an act unto itself, there's less story than Act 1 or 2 before it had. Act 2 is definitely a firm and definitive ending with plenty of closure, and it even rolls the credits afterward, and its premise of seemingly undoing half of the story in order to speedrun the underlying mystery definitely rubs some people the wrong way. But I still think it's great. These people are heroes. No way they'd hesitate if they were given the opportunity to give up their memories in exchange for saving more of Mordegon's victims.
Regarding Dragon Quest (1): I would say the game has a "fake-out boss"/sequel thing going on, it has just become so standard now you don't even notice it: You rescued the princess! You brought her home! The game should end now, right? I just beat a big, green dragon. That was the Dragon Lord, right? What do you mean there is more game?
Honestly? I wasn't faked out by that. I mean, the Dragon Lord's castle is right there, taunting you at the start and you haven't even gotten near it.