Ahead On Our Way - The Top 21 Numbered Final Fantasies Countdown

[Regulus]

Anyway literally all the art in the game was done by two women who weren't really properly credited at the time, one of them still doesn't seem to have her name recorded anywhere, and I've been going up the wall seeing recent retrospectives continue to incorrectly attribute most of their contributions to the guy they brought in to do the box art and base sketches for a handful of big enemies in later games.

I didn't want to get into this in the other thread because it would have felt shitty to "well actually" the thread about women developers, but this is not really the whole story and isn't really fair to other contributors.

Shibuya's main role in the original game was pixel art and she's obviously extremely skilled at it. The work she did on the crossing the bridge scene is fully hers and incredibly striking for how few tiles it actually uses. And she obviously has great design sense herself, given what she did with the Cloud of Darkness in III. But she wasn't solely responsible for the art itself. The character classes were designed by Koichi Ishii and, per his telling, he actually did a lot of the dot work himself because he was really particular about them. Outside of a handful of exceptions (mostly in III), almost all of the monster and boss designs in the first 4 games of the series are relatively direct adaptations of Amano provided artwork (Tetsuya Nomura did the bulk of this for 5 and 6). There's a lot to be said for how expertly she did this. Her work on the enemies in III is particularly astounding -- look at how she worked around tile and color limitations to translate Amano's Hein artwork -- but I think it's unfair to act like Amano was only responsible for the box art and a handful of big enemies. Shibuya herself has gone into detail about the process of working with him.

It's practically criminal how little recognition she's received, at least in the west. But I don't think we need to minimize the contributions of others to celebrate the vital role she played in defining the series' identity.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

That's one way to engage (or not) with "vintage" or material older than you are.

I very purposefully couched my entire opinion in one large personal anecdote specifically because I know my way is not the only way. I personally love reading all of your deep dives into older games you (and I) missed out on as kids because I love your appreciation and joy for all the little nuances that escape me, and it's really cool to read some very thoughtful treaties on some of these classics so I can live vicariously though you. I really wish I could have the experiences y'all have with these games, either now or back then. And I don't go into any old classic wanting to dislike them or be bored by them. It's just how things turn out. And now that I'm old, with paradoxically less of an attention span, and vastly less free time to dedicate to games, every minute I spend gaming has an opportunity cost that gaming as a kid or as a young adult never did. So there's very little desire here, or personal ability to just sit through something that I know will be a suboptimal experience for long durations. I still give old things a shot just to say I tried -- to have that invaluable first hand experience, and in the hope that this one will click. (I just played through and beat Front Mission 1st the other day!) But it's not easy.

"Nostalgia" is a limiting and occluding force to lay on the backs of everyone who appreciates older media since not nearly everyone's context is rooted in childhood associations.

Spoiler

I get this perspective, and I think you're right to a degree. And as a firm believer in our human capacity for free will, introspection, and growth, I am very sympathetic to your pov on this. But we are also creatures programmed by millions of years of evolution, continually subjected to the primal impulses of our lizard-brains, and we are always touched by our experiences in our formative years when our brains were at their most malleable. We have the evolved capacity to rise above that, but that usually takes effort, willpower, and self-reflection that - in my experience - the vast majority of humanity is unwilling or incapable of performing. (Consider how many times you've heard people in your life say "that's just how I am".) And even when introspection and self-awareness is there, we are still affected by our pasts. You make the conscious decision to go out of your way to experience old games that you missed out on as a child. You marvel at their strengths and try your utmost to examine them through the context of their creation and the era they came from. But this appreciation is still colored by your personal tastes and your perspectives, which are all rooted in the person you are, which is the sum of all the people you have been. When I play old games I didn't play as a child, I am still aware of them by reputation and my desire to try them myself is still rooted in the feeling of loss and FOMO I had back then. And my appreciation for them will still be invariably colored by the expectations I had built up for them, regardless of how much I try to look at them logically and dispassionately.

Maybe 'nostalgia' wasn't the best word to use, but I lack the diction and the thoughtfulness to figure out a better phrased alternative to express my thoughts. But I still think nostalgia is an extremely affecting force for most people, even when the past personal experience is not there. I've felt it personally many, many times, where I get the feeling of warm fuzzy memories for say, an old anime that I didn't even know existed as a kid, and yet it still evokes the same feelings as something I did experience back then. I don't think nostalgia is applicable to only specific, discrete objects. The way I think - in my unprofessional opinion - is that nostalgia works much more abstractly. It's not strictly a Pavlovian-like response where you associate specific objects or visuals or sounds with feelings of joy or fulfillment. It's a complicated set of emotions. A mix of pleasure, longing, excitement, and many other feelings, for something that makes up our past that we feel we - in the present - don't perceive as experiencing as much anymore. It's complicated, but it often feels very simple and straight forward. For a time and place where life was simpler, and the things that made us happy were more straightforward. Those feelings can be evoked for brand new things, so long as that new thing reminds us of how we perceive we once felt about something similar. And as much as you or I may loathe the notion of being so captured by such an irrational thought process, the reality is that most people are very prone to it. Most of our media these days is completely oriented around the feelings of nostalgia, and I don't think it's just an issue of intellectual bankruptcy. The economic pressures to find success, and the hard empirical data thrusts most people in positions of creative power in that direction. Most people in jobs oriented around creativity loathe doing something that feels repetitive and old, but in our society, most people have made Faustian Bargains in order to keep living, and they express their drive for creativity in the margins or in subtle ways.

And I don't look down at the impulse for nostalgia either, or see it with the same limiting, negative connotations that you imply. I consider it human nature and relatively harmless. Appreciation and desire for completely new things/experiences is something that not only doesn't come natural to most people, but it's something that has to be learned. And when our societies - either through economic or political pressures - is doing its utmost to actively push nostalgia and undermine the teaching of creativity/critical thinking, it's just unfortunately the state of things.

 

[Issun]

I'll get this post out of the way right now since knowing the TT demographic, the top 10 of this list will heavily favor the 8 and 16-bit era games and I don't have a whole lot to say about them. Incoming TL;DR personal anecdote on that whole era of gaming

That sucks, I'm sorry you had to miss out on so much. My parents didn't really approve of video games, but they tolerated them, so I got to experience both eras firsthand and I wish you had been able too, as well.

However, you said 8 and 16-bit, but clearly the only games left are 16 and 32-bit, and 1 is the only NES FF to make the top 10, so I'm not sure where you got that the 8-Bit games would dominate the top 10?

 

[Kirin]

I also had parents who looked at video game consoles with vague disapproval, but I did manage to successfully save up my allowance and such for an NES. The games I initially got for myself though were your Marios and Mega Mans and Capcom Disney joints, so I didn't actually own a copy of FF1. My best friend did though! I was initially a bit skeptical of the whole "gaming through menus on a console" thing; I had a Mac Plus at home for games with words in them, the NES was for action. But the enemy sprites in FF sure were cool, and the big world to explore even cooler. I don't remember how much of it I actually played back then, but I think I watched my friend play through most of it.

Of course, after getting big-time into FF and other RPGs in the 16-bit era, I had to pick up FF Origins on PS and definitely beat it there, probably multiple times. And then again in Dawn of Souls when I finally picked up an NDS (what the heck is a GBA game doing with a D.S. title anyway?). As other people mentioned above, the combination of flexible party classes from the start plus being probably the most sequence-break-able FF game ever give it a lot of replayability, which is only compounded by the tricks you can pull off with the janky programming of the original. It sure was fun watching Brickroad break this game up down and sideways back in the day.

In the end I only rated FFI at #10, largely a victim of other games being filled with characters and worlds I love, but for a game of its age it's still a lot of fun to mess around with.

 

[Kirin]

Also, catching up on FFX: I've gone back and forth on how much I like it but this time around I had it up at #5. The tactical-ish CTB is pretty darn great and of course this is the only FF where you can get it; same goes for the Sphere Grid which is just one of the most fun ways to level up even if a lot of the choice is illusory early on and really trying to min-max it can get pretty ridiculous. This was another one where the battle systems really clicked for me and I did *all* the things (in the initial release), including every ridiculous Arena superboss.
Also, this probably ties with XIII for being the most colorful FF, and the Okinawan-inspired fashions and designs are a delight.

When I first played it the characters, world, and plot weren't my favorite, but with time I've really come to appreciate the whole package. A lot of modern FFs have fantastic characters and set-pieces and a lot of grand ideas, all of which end up barely held together by spit and twine. X, on the other hand, has Themes, and *really* commits to them, such that the whole fits together extremely well.

 

[WisteriaHysteria]

I was not a deprived child by any means. My parents had a ton of flaws as caregivers, but they meant well and probably did a better job than most of my peers. And eventually when I started getting unfettered access to the family PC, I started taking up PC gaming through shareware/borrowing friends install-CDs. But on a tangent it's a weird position to be in as a little kid when you're lower-middle class, and most of your immediate peers are upper-middle.

However, you said 8 and 16-bit, but clearly the only games left are 16 and 32-bit, and 1 is the only NES FF to make the top 10, so I'm not sure where you got that the 8-Bit games would dominate the top 10?

And you're right, I thought we had only done FFIII DS, but I see III made it in too. But I will still eat a shoe if the 16bit games don't outperform the 32bit games here down the stretch. We've got 7 slots left, and we haven't seen a single one of either gen. I suspect 5 will be the next game, for 9 - an honorary 16-bit rpg - to outperform 8 and maybe even 7, and for 4 to do better than 8 at the least and probably 7, and for 6 to take the top slot. That just leaves one wild card that could go in a lot of directions, but I'm betting Dawn of Souls will fit in here. That or I'm overlooking something.

 

[Torzelbaum]

Dragon Quest (née Warrior) was my first console RPG but Final Fantasy was my second. That one-two punch solidified my interest in and affection for the genre that persists to this day.

I first learned about Final Fantasy via Nintendo's advanced marketing/advertising brochure a.k.a. Nintendo Power. I was so excited to get this game and start playing it - I just couldn't wait. I saved up my allowance for quite some time but since I lived in a tiny little town I had to wait until the next time my family traveled to a larger city before I could buy it. Thankfully I was able to pore over to the instruction manual on the long ride back home. I had learned so much about it from Nintendo Power and had been waiting for it for so long that I had already picked out my starting party and their names (which I still remember to this day oh so many years later). But then disaster struck when I realized that some of the names wouldn't fit in the 4 character limit! However I quickly adapted or changed the names to fit the limit and my first (but certainly not last) party of Light Warriors embarked on their epic (mystic) quest.

FYI -This was my very first party but I had different names.

I replayed the first game multiple times with different parties and approaches - both because I enjoyed it and because I wasn't able to afford many other games. And I did that again with the PS1 and GBA re-releases. And then a little bit more with the randomizer. And I'm sure I'll do it at least a few more times once I finally get the Pixel Remaster.

the most sequence-break-able FF game

Once you defeat Lich and get the Canoe.

 

[Omega]

You spoony bard!

#6
Final Fantasy IV

a.k.a. The one with the heroic sacrifice.

509 points • 17 mentions • Highest rank: #1 (4-So, Aleryn, Issun, JBear)​

Released on July 19, 1991 (Japan)
Producer: Masafumi Miyamoto
Director: Hironobu Sakaguchi
Composer: Nobuo Uematsu

IV was a game-changer. It was mind-blowing at the time, and the first time you walk into the Mist Cave still gives me the shivers. It set a really high bar of what’s expected from a Final Fantasy.

Its development was a bit of a mess at the beginning (we might talk more about it later). Long story short: it was originally planed for the NES, but the game was scrapped and some of it was reused to make the SNES game that’d become Final Fantasy IV. Even then, it only took two years to go from III to IV - different times!

And it’s amazing all the things that Square managed to pack in by taking advantage of the SNES, besides gorgeous graphics and even more gorgeous music. Most notably, battles now featured five different characters, and while you couldn’t pick your party, the game had a dozen characters weaving in and out of the story, each one with their own set of commands associated to their job.

And the battle system was overhauled with the Active Time Battle system. Instead of characters and enemies taking turns, now time flowed during battle, and quicker characters would act more often than slower ones. Suddenly speed mattered for something more than the number of hits, and it opened the door to new battle scenarios (like enemies that would have different behavior depending on the phase of the battle, as the first boss quickly taught you).

And then there’s the story. IV really went into it, and it became a staple of the series - it took II’s penchant for drama and increased it by an order of magnitude. Suddenly every character had a personality and a motivation. It wasn’t Shakespeare, but you have to give it to them: it was ambitious. We follow a Dark Knight redeeming from his past deeds of skewering innocent people by becoming a Paladin and saving the world with his friends - heck, he even had a stablished relationship as part of his character. Given what they were aiming for and what they managed to pull off, we can forgive all the heroic sacrifices they had to write in to keep the characters in your party rotating steadily.

Infamously, IV was released in America as Final Fantasy II, because Square decided to skip localizing the real II and III in order to launch IV as soon as they could. Localization was done in record time, and it was done not on the original FFIV but on an Easy Type variation that simplified the interface and lowered it further.... and then they made it even easier for the US. But the end result was a friendlier game and, given the warm reception, I don't think it was a mistake, since it allowed more people to get into the series. Still, it would take a few more games before Final Fantasy conquered the West.

My favorite piece of IV trivia - Square was thinking of releasing a comic in USA based on it before the game's launch, and got Kurt Busiek to write it:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1321223517149425665

They even kicked around the idea of hiring Busiek to do the localization, but he declined. People, we were this close to have Cid renamed to “Lord Blast”. We are living in the worst timeline.

Something Old

Did you notice the characters’ jobs are from Final Fantasy III? This was intentional, as a callback to that game. Also an homage to past games we had four elemental fiends to deal with.

Something New

Final Fantasy IV was the debut of ATB, which would be refined and toyed with until IX. It’s amazing in its simplicity but it allows some really cool mechanics. IV was also when the Summon mechanics finally gelled in their ATB incarnation.

However IV’s greatest contribution to the series, one still observed to this day, was the drama. II and III had stories, yes, but it was in IV when it really took of. Compare the intro of I with the intro to IV - before the title crawl we have a raid into an enemy town, a surprise enemy attack, the firing of the king’s guard and several character conversations (and the amazing Theme of Love).

IV's third greatest contribution? The logo. From this point on, all game logos woild feature a different Amano drawing in gradients, and they became so iconic that Square retroactively started using the same logo format for I, II and III.

Something Blew

I really had problems coming up with something - IV was so influential that practically every idea was recycled in later games. Battle system? Bestiary? References to settings? Check, check, check.

Ah, I got it. Asura, what happened to you? Why did you never come back? (no, The After years doesn’t count)

Score

4 /4 evil elemental fiends

 

[Omega]

I suspect 5 will be the next game, for 9 - an honorary 16-bit rpg - to outperform 8 and maybe even 7, and for 4 to do better than 8 at the least and probably 7, and for 6 to take the top slot. That just leaves one wild card that could go in a lot of directions, but I'm betting Dawn of Souls will fit in here. That or I'm overlooking something.

Interesting predictions, fleshling. My puppet did mention to Me that some fleshlings objected to the List because "the same games always win", whatever that means. I can assure you that a) there are still surprises and b) the one who will win is I, Omega, when I get free and crush your world. Please look forward to it.

 

[FelixSH]

Ok, now my mind is blown. I would have bet that this would be number 1.

Not my favourite, so focusing on the things that I think it does really, really well: I love how this game combines storytelling with gameplay mechanics (aside from Cecil changing class, and becoming, technically, a different character, my favourite detail is Tellah losing stats when leveling up, which still blows my mind). The easter egg hunt isn't as strong as in III, but there is still plenty to find. The first halfs story is really fun and fast-paced. And having Cecil go from "Dark Knight who kills everyone who stand in his way" to "Guardian of his physically weaker party member" to a fully reborn Paladin is pretty great. Having Rydia save the day is one of the great moments in FF history. The not-final-party characters are all great - Yang is awesome, the twins are great fun, I don't like Tellah as a person, but he is very well done. Also, Golbez is a great Saturday Morning Cartoon villain for the first half.

Calcobrena is super creepy, in every way, I hate that stupid doll. What an amazingly fitting song.

 

[JBear]

Your "highest rank" is definitely mistaken. Source: my list.

Anyway, this here is literally my favourite video game. I am completely incapable of being objective about it, and I think it's basically perfect. I remember the first time I saw it, in my grandmother's house on my uncle's SNES with my cousin's pizza-smelling controller, and I was immediately smitten. I saw God that day. I have played it countless times, before even getting into Free Enterprise (which I have also played a ton of), and have purchased it entirely too many times. You could release a version of this shit on a smart toaster oven and I'd still buy it.

 

[Octopus Prime]

I can’t fully express how much I want to read a Kurt Busiek Final Fantasy comic

 

[4-So]

Your "highest rank" is definitely mistaken. Source: my list.

I'll have more to say later but this. It was my #1.

 

[Johnny Unusual]

Final Fantasy, the first, was the first RPG game I played and beat on my own and was the first I owned. I remember getting it for Christmas... but I got it towards the end of the NES era (I tended to be late to the game, getting an NES the year the Super NES came out). I loved it and it meant a lot and I began playing it that day at my Grammy's house (where we celebrated Christmas).

But I was well-aware of the franchise because my best friend's family had Final Fantasy "II" and I watched them play through. And I was shocked; video game characters could have soapy arcs. When those magic kids turned themselves to stone to save everyone, I couldn't believe it. I played through most of it long ago but I don't remember ever beating it. I was a FF fan who had only beaten about... jeez, three of these games? Maybe four? And I'm not certain if this is one of them.

 

[Issun]

Your "highest rank" is definitely mistaken. Source: my list.

I'll have more to say later but this. It was my #1.

I had it at #1, too.

 

[Omega]

I had it at #1, too.

This is what I get for not screening better lackeys. Issues have been corrected, guilty parties have been lasered, (Point tally is correct)

 

[Peklo]

Something Blew

I really had problems coming up with something - IV was so influential that practically every idea was recycled in later games. Battle system? Bestiary? References to settings? Check, check, check.

It's still and will likely always remain the only game in the series to feature five-person parties. Short of Etrian Odyssey and sometimes SaGa, it's not a particularly common scale for an RPG party even outside of this series context.

What I like about FFIV most these days is its commitment to excess linearity and player control on part of the developers, in knowing through imposed limitations in party composition, exploration opportunities, available resources and feasible upper level range and ceiling just about exactly what they're prepared for at any given point, or what kind of scenario will tax them and what is simply a bump in the road. Most of the game is tuned that way and allows the developers to highlight the light puzzle-leaning emphasis in major encounters, or even in the recurring standard battles. The more specialized challenges of the first half eventually flatten or standardize into a more straightforward victory-through-big-numbers avalanche in the latter half when the party makeup solidifies and their tactics in a way unify in purpose, turning many at-odds individuals into a coherent engine of battle. These are all, word for word, qualities I see echoed in FFXIII's design ethos, so if I can use affinity for one to elevate the other through retroactive mutual association, I will, though I do genuinely believe the inspiration is legible and present in the latter work.

 

[FelixSH]

Oh, thanks Peklo, I forgot to mention that. Having set parties, with fine-tuned challenges for them, is something I really liked, and would enjoy seeing more of. Looking forward to XIII, partly for that reason. I'd really like more JRPGs take that route, or go even further, and make all encounters mandatory, while setting level-ups and new abilities to fixed points. But I'm drifting of-topic here, it's certainly one of IVs strong points, for me.

 

[SpoonyBard]

You spoony bard!​

I am summoned.

For real, that Boss music though, guys.

 

[JBear]

Final Fantasy IV is the best FF for the same reason that Dragon Quest IV is the best DQ: they have the best/most memorable Hyadain parodies. I can't fight a fiend anymore without hearing lyrics in my head. "Tsunami, tsunami, tsunami no cagnazzo, boku wo..."

ETA: Also, hard agree with everything Peklo says above. I said as much in my post about 13, but I love thriving under constraints, and it's my favourite thing when an RPG repeatedly contorts the narrative to force me to use different combinations of characters and classes and then challenges me to optimize under those constraints. RPGs used to do this a lot, but I feel like they basically never do anymore, sacrificing interesting challenges at the altar of choice: we can't not let the players use all of their favourite characters and make them good at whatever they want them to be.

 

[Daikaiju]

IV is one of my favorites for several reasons, chief among them being not having to fiddle with levelling different jobs and characters. I play RPGs for the stories, not the systems.
My main gripe with the game was how the dungeons could get grindy. I had to camp at Save points in a number of dungeons to level up before tackling some bosses.

 

[JBear]

I find that really surprising. As far as I'm concerned, FFIV is basically the gold standard for "if you just fight every random battle you'll never need to grind". It was honestly pretty foundational for my current "never grind, not even once" lifestyle. I guess sometimes Rydia's HP total can be a little dicey for Zeromus, but I'd much rather bash my ahead against a hard boss a few times than ever grind.

 

[Torzelbaum]

I think the only time in 4 where you might really need / want to grind is to get Rosa to learn Float in the Underground.

I think if you fight all of the Lunar bosses and save after each one then you won't necessarily need to grind.

 

[Mogri]

I find that really surprising. As far as I'm concerned, FFIV is basically the gold standard for "if you just fight every random battle you'll never need to grind". It was honestly pretty foundational for my current "never grind, not even once" lifestyle. I guess sometimes Rydia's HP total can be a little dicey for Zeromus, but I'd much rather bash my ahead against a hard boss a few times than ever grind.

Tell that to stupid kid Mog, who ran from half the encounters because the alligators were scary. I was chronically underleveled.

 

[JBear]

I think the only time in 4 where you might really need / want to grind is to get Rosa to learn Float in the Underground.

I mean, the fix there is either skipping them for later or just diving in anyway. (I've done both; going without Float is kind of a slog, but you'll usually pick it up from the encounters in there, but honestly it's a not a big deal to just leave those dungeons for a bit later, and I feel like the fact that you don't often have Float yet is the game suggesting as much.)

Tell that to stupid kid Mog, who ran from half the encounters because the alligators were scary. I was chronically underleveled.

Oh, I mean, same, but I played a lot of games badly as a kid. With age comes wisdom, and that wisdom is "grinding is bad; don't do it."

 

[Daikaiju]

We are talking about the SNES version, yes? I had points in the Tower of Zot, Giant of Babil, and the Lunar Ruins where I had to plunk down and farm XP.

 

[JBear]

I am talking about any/all versions, which definitely includes the SNES version, yes.

 

[Beta Metroid]

Alas, Chrono Trigger is the only jRPG I've ever managed to get into (unless Pokemon and the Mario RPGs/Bug Fables count), so Final Fantasy is a big blind spot for me. But I do enjoy seeing Talking Time wax on about it. And I feel absolute confidence in what Talking Time's favorite Final Fantasy is, to the extent that I will broadcast my shame on my profile status if I'm wrong: It's definitely VI

 

[Kirin]

I mean, I did put XII as my #1 partly because I was pretty sure my other #1 needed the help a lot less, but we’ll see.

 

[Kirin]

As for FFIV...

Yeah, I was 14 when it came out, and it was formative, cementing a love-affair with JRPGs in general that would last over a decade and FF in particular that's still going. The detailed story and characters were a revelation at the time, even a lot of it looks a bit camp or cliched now. The impact of the ATB goes without saying. Etc etc. The seeds were all laid down by the 8-bit titles, but this is really what defined "Final Fantasy" for me and my peers. Probably everything there is to say about it has been said.

The rotating party (and correspondingly tuned gameplay and challenges) that other pointed out above is a cool thing I hadn't thought about specifically in a while, and something you don't see often these days. Chrono Trigger also used it to good effect in its first half.

I had it at #7 on my current list, below other entries that that have specific things I love about them, but its influence on both the series and myself can't be denied.