Ahead On Our Way - The Top 21 Numbered Final Fantasies Countdown

[Lokii]

I need to give it another go. I've tried to get into it a couple times but I always get stuck failing Whyt's math tests

 

[Octopus Prime]

Anyone who wants you to do math isn’t your friend.

It’s as true now as it was in third grade

 

[ozacrot]

You made me realize that if get IX on Switch then I'd have all the main game in the series in one console from 1 to 12 (skipping XI, of course, but still sweet). Oh, to have time to play all of those. Maybe after civilization ends....

Funny story; I decided to, for mental health reasons, replay a bunch of Final Fantasies I'd forgotten in post-COVID pre-vaccine 2020/2021 so this actually was the main reason I have strong opinions on the XIII trilogy.

FFIVDS (#11) is great. FFIV itself is a classic RPG in every sense - eminently replayable, generally very well-paced, and accessible enough that many lifelong FF fans have played it a couple times. It is not, however, an especially difficult game, even in its original Japanese release. Leaving aside the final floors of the last dungeon and a couple roadblock bosses (Asura in particular has required me to grind Reflect for Rosa every time), IV is way more easy-going than its predecessors, and set a new tone for difficulty in the series - FF games would still have teeth, but mostly in post-game or optional dungeons. The DS remake then stands alone - a "new" Final Fantasy designed to be difficult, a departure from the "pick Attack 90% of the time" approach of IV-IX. It's clear they relished the opportunity to do it. The biggest addition to the battle system, Augments, are both potentially very powerful and easy to screw up irreversibly, which I would hold against the game if it weren't all-but-explicitly an Expert Mode version of the original game. The increased difficulty forces the kind of in-the-moment strategic decisions you'd more often expect from an Atlus series like Etrian Odyssey or Shin Megami Tensei, and while that's not what I typically play FF games for, it's fascinating to see this take on one of the series' Old Reliables.

The presentation of the game also deserves some celebration - the second-gen polygonal look on DS games of the time has held up great and is due for its own nostalgia moment, and it's really cool to see the choreographed cutscenes of the original in a fully voiced "multi-camera" perspective. It's clear this remake was a labor of love, even if it feels spiteful at times.

 

[Mogri]

It's clear this remake was a labor of love, even if it feels spiteful at times.

That's because it hates the player, not the game.

 

[Kirin]

IVDS is another I never got to for the same reasons I mentioned before along with being a bit put off by the discourse around augments and such, but I definitely appreciated its contribution to IV’s media with lovely new rendered cut scenes and such. The in-game models are pretty cute too.

 

[Peklo]

Augments are great. You can teach Kain to Cry and it's optimal to do so. Couldn't ask for more.

 

[Daikaiju]

I need to give it another go. I've tried to get into it a couple times but I always get stuck failing Whyt's math tests

The Steam version fixes a lot of gripes.

 

[Positronic Brain]

Come down,merc.

#16
Final Fantasy VII Remake

a.k.a. The remake.

216 points • 7 mentions • Highest rank: #2 (Oathbreaker)​

Released on April 10, 2020 (Worldwide)
Producer: Yoshinori Kitase
Director: Tetsuya Nomura & Naoki Hamaguchi
Composers: Masashi Hamuzu and Mitsuto Suzuki (based on Nobuo Uematsu’s work)

The latest entry into the series, a game so anticipated that it was rumored for years - and maybe it was those very rumors what convinced Square to re-make the game that made Final Fantasy into the killer franchise it has become with a full fledged AAA+ budget. It was also infamous for being victim of Square’s development woes, taking five years from announcement to release, and Jenova knows how many years of development before that. But it was worth it - reviews were incredible among the board, the graphics are some of the best you’ll ever see coming from your PS4 and Square’s executives are wearing hats made of money. Everybody’s happy!

Except yours truly because I haven’t had the chance to play it. Life is short and my backlog is too large. But luckily I know of Tyrants who did play it! I asked Juno and Wisteria Hysteria to share their opinion with us.

I always considered the original FFVII to be in the middle as far as FFs go. I could appreciate the characterization, the environmentalist themes, the music, and how impressively done the presentation was by the standards of its time. But much of how that game plays never really impressed me. I was never the biggest fan of the FF4-9 style of ATB and as time has passed I've come to actively dislike it- it feels like a bad compromise between a proper turn-based system and actual real-time combat that has the strengths of neither side. Furthermore, I never really liked how Materia worked- It does a lot to rob characters the chance to demonstrate personality and growth in battles. For me, the only real question about who to use in battles came down to which Limit Breaks I like the best, because mechanically that's the majority of what separates all the characters.

This is where the Remake fixes things in my eye. It's a much more interesting take on ATB that is fast paced but also still encourages judicious use of resources- this is especially true on Hard mode where MP is greatly limited and items cannot be used. Furthermore, adding a weapon progression system and unique attacks that are as commonly used as magic means that characters feel they have growth attached to them and feel distinct in battle even as Materia is being swapped in and out, from one character to another. Limit Breaks are still here, but rather than being something you use every could of turns, they're basically a special Super Move that makes them feel very special.

Yet even as all this is happening, Remake is still a master class in so many parts of the presentation. Remake in 2020 may not have been as revolutionary as the original was 1997, but in no way unimpressive in its own right I'll give a special shout-out to the voice acting- all of the main cast is very well-performed. It's got some wonderful remixes of old music and some terrific new songs as well. Also, the mini-games are so much better, speaking as somebody who hated the mini-games in the original.

Final Fantasy VII: Remake is kind of a miracle. It's a remake of one of the most beloved and influential games ever, so it had impossible expectations up front. It's a game Square & Co teased but swore up and down it wouldn't do for years. It came on the heels of a multi-decade long malaise for the franchise that saw one polarizing game after another. And it was a game that itself went through a half-decade long development hell, that at one point saw the entire development scrapped in favor of starting over from scratch.

And yet... it's really really good! It looks great, it sounds great, and I think most impressively it plays great. The core combat mechanics are a departure from the original, eschewing towards being an Action RPG very similar to Final Fantasy XV. But here the combat system is honed to as sharp as a Masamune, but has the weight and satisfying heft of a Buster Sword. The action isn't discombobulating to follow like XV, and the combos and magic system all are easy to access, but takes a certain level of mastery to really get the most out of.

The game itself is an extremely loving rendition of the original. Every single tiny little detail is recreated here and extrapolated out into something much more lifelike. Passing screens are turned into entire dungeons; minigames are turned into lavish setpieces; minor background characters now have personalities/backstories/storylines. Everything looks and feels like the game you imagined in your memories, playing as a wide-eyed little kid, almost to an overly saccharine degree.

FF7: Remake is a Remake in multiple senses of the word, and is only part one of a planned trilogy. There's enough new ideas and content put into it however that it feels like more than a full game, and there's plenty to look forward to for new and old fans alike. For me, it was maybe one of the best games I've played in years, simply from a pure enjoyment perspective. I eagerly await continuing Cloud & Company's new quest in FF7: Rebirth.`

Something Old

Besides all the references to VII, VIIR also incorporates plenty of references to the fabled Compilation of Final Fantasy - the expanded lore has been folded back into the main game, so I guess it’s not “expanded” anymore? And your favorite systems from VII are back, but now tied to a real time combat engine that was refined from XV’s. Some new systems have been grafted too, like the Weapon Skills that are right out of IX and the Staggers from XIII.

Something New

VIIR doesn’t have a New Game Plus mode - instead you get a Chapter Select mode, which is more handy. Instead of replaying the whole game, you can jump directly to the part you want to replay, and some of these will have extra stuff like superbosses or extra collectables.

Something Blew

We’ll find out what will never be tried again in the series in a few decades! So leaving this spot blank to be filled in when Final Fantasy VII Remake Remake ships.

Score

1 / 3 games under the VII Remake banner

 

[FelixSH]

At some point, we will reach the main games, meaning I will actually have played the game and have, therefore, something to say about it.

For now, I can only add that this is another one that I will play, whenever I get a new computer. Looking forward to it, since I heard it announced, years ago.

 

[Lokii]

Huh! Kinda surprised to see this one so low

 

[Positronic Brain]

Huh! Kinda surprised to see this one so low

It's too new - the most recently released qualifying game, in fact - so it got few mentions, but in general was highly regarded.

 

[jpfriction]

Well I loved it and I bet it’d be in my top ten, but I couldn’t be arsed to submit a list, so it’s me, hi, I’m the problem it’s me.

 

[pudik]

yea i completely forgot about it. i probably wouldn't have ranked it too terribly high, but it was a good game that i enjoyed a lot

 

[estragon]

It's too new - the most recently released qualifying game, in fact - so it got few mentions, but in general was highly regarded.

Yeah I think given the age demographics and gaming habits of this board, Talking Time lists of games that take this long to play will necessarily have whatever the opposite of recency bias is. Even many that consider themselves fans of the series probably haven't even gotten to FF15, let alone the remake of 7.

 

[spines]

i was close to voting, but i decided there are too many i've been meaning to play again or finish for me to want to send the list. i'm pretty sure this would be near my top 5 if not in it no matter what though; if nothing else this kind of "answer" to a previous work is the kind of thing that tends to interest me a lot, and it's presented in such a way that it basically works on its own even though it even more clearly sets up bizarre new questions about what the rest of the project will be like. visually it's a gorgeous new rendition of a game i've always thought looks really fascinating (albeit in a totally different way) and the battle mechanics are pretty dang good even if they've toned down most of the silly and superpowered stuff you could do with materia in the original game (and i assume will keep it that way, for the sake of fictional concepts like "game balance"). and the soundtrack is amazing. obviously most of it's arrangements of the old music (with the really memorable new tracks being the area and battle theme from the roadway tunnel), but with hamauzu and suzuki on the case i know i'm gonna love it

which of course brings us back a few entries on the list. 13-2 is a game i like despite the fact that i don't think i ever want to play it again; compared to 13 i don't particularly like like most of the mechanical changes, especially with monsters involving so much more character-building and the class adjustments making the game balance feel really weird to me in comparison (even aside from the fact that it's mostly a lot easier than its predecessor). still, it's fun enough, and captures those feelings of rising tension and triumph plenty often still.

but seriously, the music from all three of the major composers is so great. the actual different versions of area themes are more of a cute oddity than something truly amazingly implemented (although it's fun that they're arranged in a way that lets them loop back into each other on the ost), but the game has some strong leitmotifs and not only do i think that more games should have songs with...well, singing, but there's a fun and corny stage musical quality here that i would LOVE for more jrpgs to lean into. limit break! is an obvious example, like the boss trying to intimidate the main characters before the chorus brings their triumphant rebuttal. also it's just a grimy song and i want more of that all the time too. but then there's stuff like the version of noel's theme (which is also a recurring battle motif) that's basically a soliloquy about his own path through the game's story. even if i kind of think the game isn't that good, it really has a vibe i wish more story-driven rpgs would go for, and i think it made me more shocked at the ending, in a good way.

lightning strikes thrice is not quite a great game either, but i really like it, even if the music isn't nearly as memorable. it's a clear mechanical link on the path from x-2 to 7r, with the outfit switching tied into cycling atb actions between your different stances/characters, and i know a lot of people find "time limit" stuff stressful but i really enjoy game progression that you don't control quite so clearly. it is pretty weird though that supposedly tri-ace just worked on visuals and stuff though because it does kind of feel like one of their games at times. which, being me, i'm also saying endearingly, but it's definitely an unexpected inheritor of the older square spirit where it kind of feels like they were just doing things to see what would happen

 

[JBear]

Even many that consider themselves fans of the series probably haven't even gotten to FF15, let alone the remake of 7.

It me.

 

[Oathbreaker]

I played the series backward from IX when it first came out so I've tended a lot more toward enjoying the newer games than the older ones as a consequence of being spoiled by things like IX's fairly gigantic story scripting, and intricate, exciting cutscenes that just aren't fair to compare to FF games older than the Playstation. I'm gonna just put most of my post in a spoiler box to save a bit of screen space for everyone, and there are some not as vague as they could be spoilers in there anyway.

Spoiler: Yo I love VII Remake A LOT a lot

VIIR's combat feels almost like a culmination of their aspirations for the portrayal of battle as the franchise has progressed. That comes with a few annoyances like phase change scenes negating damage, or worse eating an unfortunately timed limit break. But the presentation has reached highs that I almost don't think can go much higher. Mechanically speaking it took many lessons learned throughout the franchise and crammed them into a single new dynamic that works beautifully. ATB management as a resource instead of a timer that builds up based on engaging directly in the battle is amazing. It was the final step to take from the ATB design of Lightning Returns to really turn it into what its full unabbreviated system name sounds like it was meant to be. ACTIVE Time Battle. That extends even to the way Limit Breaks charge up, where it's no longer just taking enough damage, but by causing Staggers taken from the XIII trilogy. Throw the incredible time slow effect while in menus into the mix (which sounds like it was what they had the hardest time getting to work) and on paper it's a best of all worlds situation between more recent Final Fantasies, and the other big IP the combat designers worked on, Kingdom Hearts 2. To a limited degree, the Classic difficulty setting even somewhat successfully emulates the old ATB structure. The only things that really need work are the phase transitions during boss fights and the rather weak aerial combat that only Tifa is really any good at but still suffers from entirely canned animation sequences. And speaking of Tifa, throw a Parry materia on her and she would very nearly fit in any Character Action game. Juno mentioned how they successfully made each character feel distinct to play as but with Tifa specifically she's almost from another genre and it's great.

Narratively I love everything it's done. The way the compilation content has been woven into this first part is essentially flawless. A lot of people have a whole lot more gripes about the compilation and before this game came out the mere mention of including any of that content into the primary story would've caused fear and hesitation over any number of things. A bunch of people are still nervous about what might be included going forward. The choice about what to include and how to include it has so far sidestepped pretty much all of those fears and complaints while still managing to solidly embed and canonize strong connections to that content into the primary FFVII story in a way they would never have been able to do with the original. And then there's the obvious things that got universal praise, the exquisitely elaborated character development for the whole party and even the villains, stuff like Barret's shiny new personality and charisma, the far more in-depth portrayal of Cloud's struggle with his trauma, and so so much more. Knocked it out of the park nothing, the writers shot it off the planet at escape velocity. It's not perfect, but it went as far beyond my narrative expectations as DMCV did for my combat expectations. For as much as I've seen some grumbling about that primary new narrative thing, even while a bit clumsy as a plot device it adds some new and absolutely lovely thematic nuance to the original; struggling not only against faceless companies destroying the planet but fighting against a modern feeling of inevitability, realizing that systems invisible to many of us as we grow up are what keep those things we struggle against in place. Fuckin' brilliant. And possibly most importantly, That. Dance. Tho.

I am more excited than I've ever been between Final Fantasy releases to see how VIIR continues. If Rebirth and the conclusion turn out this good, I would put the trilogy at the top.

 

[Lokii]

I voted 7R highly as well. It was a project I was cynical about for its long rumored and then actually development. I thought it was a foolish SE endeavor; the company always chasing that FF7 $$$ you know? The final product knocked my socks off from just about every angle. Marvelous game, easily stands on its own, and a fine refinement of the work they were defining in FFXV.

 

[Peklo]

I immediately replayed Remake on hard mode upon finishing it, so for the design aspects related to all of that, it sure is a good one.

 

[Mogri]

I immediately tried Hard, but I stopped when there was no obvious way to skip the lengthy story bits (e.g. the long, long walk into Shinra building at the start of the chapter). I picked Hard to engage with the mechanics, not to replay the whole game.

 

[Positronic Brain]

Entry will be late today. I'm busy preparing to take over the world some last minute issues at my day job, so please don't break the psychic link your engagement with this list, he'd hate for all this effort to go to waste.

 

[Kirin]

Yeah I think given the age demographics and gaming habits of this board, Talking Time lists of games that take this long to play will necessarily have whatever the opposite of recency bias is. Even many that consider themselves fans of the series probably haven't even gotten to FF15, let alone the remake of 7.

Yeah, while I have at least played XV, this is where I’m at too - intrigued by 7R but just haven’t managed to make the time to get to it. And at this point I’m thinking I may be better served by waiting til I get a PS5 and can play the upgraded version, though the danger of that is then I’ll probably get sucked into XVI instead...

 

[Mogri]

Actually, though, maybe the worst thing that I have to say about 7R (a game that I enjoyed well enough) is that it kept making me want to play 7.

So I did. I was out of Midgar in the time 7R took to get me out of Sector 7. I love 7R's attention to detail, especially in the environments and the super-deep cuts from 7, but I don't feel like it respects my time. I spend too long in 7R doing things that I don't care to be doing.

But that may say more about me than it says about the game, and, in the end, I finished 7R while that 7 playthrough stalled out on (what would have been) disc 2. One thing I'll say in 7R's favor: 7 throws a lot of characters at you and doesn't give you much reason to care about most of them, while 7R makes each character very distinct -- even many of the weapons have a big effect on how the character plays. And while you have hardly any control over who's in your party, the bench gains experience along with you, so you don't feel handicapped when the roster changes. IIRC, this isn't true of any mainline FF game until XIII.

 

[Falselogic]

It me.

And me! the last main line FF I finished was 12 and that was only a couple years back...

 

[Positronic Brain]

I’ve come up with a new recipe!.

#15
Final Fantasy XV

a.k.a. The one about the stag party gone horribly wrong.

236 points • 9 mentions • Highest rank: #3 (Lokii)​

Released on November 29, 2016 (Worldwide)
Producer: Shinji Hashimoto
Directors: Hajime Tabata
Composers: Yoko Shimomura

For years the shining example of Square’s woes of transitioning to the HD era, XV started development as a spin-off for XIII and was announced in 2006. I got rebranded as XV six years later and then it still took several more years and a new director to be released.

To be fair, part of the development difficulties surely had to do with the fact that XV overhauled the Final Fantasy formula. Gone are the turn based battles (even though something similar remains) and a new real-time action system with AI companions takes its place. The world is no longer divided in maps and battle screens, but the game instead takes place in an open world.

And what an open world. The world of Eos has plenty of things happening. You can explore dungeons or hunt marks or drive around listening to Final Fantasy music or go fishing or learn cooking recipes…

Ah, yes, the recipes. The game also features an unorthodox leveling up system for a jRPG - you and your pals gather up XP via the usual means, but that XP is not “cashed in” until you all gather at a bonfire in a haven or rest in an inn. Camping advances the real time clock to the next morning, accumulates XP toward your next level and grants you the opportunity to cook one of several dozens photorealistic recipes that grant bonuses for the next day. Sounds like a silly mechanic, but it helps tighten your bonds with your bros in your party.

This is also probably the tightest party in Final Fantasy since X-2. You play as Noctis, the prince of Insomnia and inheritors of some cool magic abilities, whose kingdom is attacked by the Empire the day he left for a neighboring kingdom with his best buds to get married. Locked out of his throne, Noctis now has to liberate his kingdom and, you know, save the world in the process.

The game’s atmosphere is also unlike any other FFs. You don’t have an airship, you have a car. Fashion styles are really modern and the empire has dropships and modern weaponry, yet you still use a sword. That’s nothing new for the series, but the exquisitely detailed graphics make the contrast between the modern and the fantastic contrast more than in other games, which causes a kind of setting dissonance that was divisive at the time.

Not divisive, the soundtrack. Yoko Shimomura stepped into the composer’s plate this time and she brought her A-game with her, knocking out some great tunes. As if Shimomura’s tunes weren’t enough, Square got Florence and the Machine to cover “Stand by Me” as the game’s main tune and write two original [ULR=[MEDIA=youtube]vhGz6BLywIo[/MEDIA]] for the game.

I understand the story is not bad, either, but I wouldn’t know. My playtime in this game is over 60 hours but I never got past Chapter 3 - I spent all my time fishing, hunting marks and going camping with my buddies. If you ask me, I got my money’s worth.

Something Old

The bestiary will be very familiar to veterans of the series - despite the modern setting, we still get the usual Final fantasy beasts by days and the usual Final Fantasy monsters by night. The battle system will also look familiar to XIII-3 veterans, although teams have stated the transition to real-time action engines was convergent evolution.

Something New

The bonfire based leveling system is completely new and opened a lot of possibilities. The new grinding method is not killing monsters by the dozen, is killing them by the half dozens then paying for a luxurious room so you can cash-in XP at triple the rate.

Something Blew

As the last main FF game released, it’s too early to see which ideas hit an evolutionary dead-end here. XVI appears to be heavily-action based as well, so it will be interesting to find out how much XV DNA is in other aspects of the game.

Score

75 / 104 recipes

 

[Oathbreaker]

the bench gains experience along with you, so you don't feel handicapped when the roster changes. IIRC, this isn't true of any mainline FF game until XIII.

I can't say I remember about other games too much, but VII's bench did keep up to some degree, just not anywhere close to as well as in VIIR. I stuck to Cloud/Tifa/Barrett for pretty much all of the original most times I've played it and by the time they're level 70, the rest of the party still ended up above 50 which is more than enough to finish the game.

Ohno I should say something about XV. Uhhhh, honestly I don't think it released as its best self. I don't necessarily think its patches improved its state much at all either (I actively preferred the original version of Chapter 13, for instance), and its Platinum demo was incomprehensibly unrepresentative of the game and felt more like a separate exposition chapter. The Duscae demo in my opinion had what felt like a more solid grasp of their goals for combat to the point the final game felt a little confused to me. It did have very good additions like the option that paused battle so you can make decisions like you would in prior games but it was a little TOO aggressive about pausing for me so I'm glad it at least became something they learned from. The movement was light and loose and that tended to work to its detriment outside of combat, especially when you encountered designed platform sections.

And then there's of course the rather sparse story. The early patch to put movie cutscenes in to contextualize what I felt was fairly obvious to begin with was not the most deft of touches. And as became evident with Episode Ignis and character DLC after that, including what was unfortunately scrapped (kinda proving a rule the game seems to have about treating women pretty poorly) they themselves were very unsatisfied with what the story released as. Starting with Episode Ignis the DLC took a very hard turn toward creating a less unsatisfying, or at least more interesting ending.

The game is at its best when you're enjoying the vibe of a roadtrip, but while it's okay for what it is, each character soured the vibe at one point or another, and in pretty unnecessary ways *cough* Prompto *cough*. Or, as the case can sometimes be, the vibe can be at its best when you bend the programming over your knee. It was pretty fun to circumvent design intent to get Aranea permanently in the party but the developers hated having a woman in the party so much that for several patches they made a futile dedicated effort to try and prevent whatever new way people came up with, and thankfully did not succeed in the end though it is rather a lot more annoying to achieve now.

 

[Positronic Brain]

As an addemdum, I really really dislike XV's art style - the modern setting dissonance really is a turn off. Yet for days I couldn't get away from this game and I can't remember why I stopped playing it but I enjoyed while I did. It's not near the top of my list, but the game is good. I would have liked it even more if Cindy had had a bit more clothing, poor girl.

XV is also the prime example of the series being stronger than any of the entries. I had planned to skip XV but didn't, but even if I had I knew that the next game would be wildly different and I'd probably get back into FF right again. Change is the only constant for this series and I do like that a lot.

 

[Mogri]

I would have liked it even more if Cindy had had a bit more clothing, poor girl.

This is a great reason to play it on PC. Steam Workshop has mods to give her less- (and, of course, more-) revealing attire.

15 has my favorite villain in the series. The main cast I could take or leave, though their interactions with each other are undeniably great.

 

[Lokii]

I think it's brilliant. A real tour de force car. I sunk a hundred hours into it and I think I've got a 100 more, which I eagerly anticipate.

 

[Kirin]

I generally enjoy each new main-line FF regardless of its individual foibles, but I ended up liking XV way more than I expected. It came it at #4 on my (admittedly highly arbitrary) list, which might've shocked me before its release. I was pretty skeptical of the all-bro cast, but in the end the tight focus really helped build some great characters. I really got into the whole back-country road trip vibe and spent countless hours just chillin' my way around the landscape, beating up some monsters, finding some secrets, blasting decades' worth of FF tunes from the radio. The plotting and pacing definitely have their issues (which vary pretty wildly depending on exactly which version of the game you played) and yeah, I wish it treated its women better, but there was still a lot that really came together. In the end I did most of the things in the original main game including catching the legendary fish and completing the really weird-ass metal-album-cover surreal-physics optional platforming dungeon that just delighted me with its very existence.