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A Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy: The Star Wars Thread
Rise of Skywalker was so bad, it actually ruined the movies that came before it.
The sequel trilogy is akin to an Olympic vaulter. In The Force Awakens, they're sprinting toward the springboard and everything looks OK so far even if nothing exciting has happened yet. In The Rise of Skywalker, they hit the springboard, launch off the vaulting table and they're just flying through the air, flipping around, and oh my God, they've gone so high, they're just tumbling and spinning and is it even possible for them to stick this landing? You just have to trust they're experts here and if they can stick this it will be amazing. In The Rise of Skywalker, our gymnast comes careening to to floor and oh no the floor is bare concrete and they haven't got the right angle anyway and they smash face first and teeth are flying and bones are crunching and blood is everywhere, everywhere and now you recognize they were just overconfident assholes with no plan and that exciting second part means nothing now. If only we could have frozen them in midair to enjoy the spectacle and left them hanging there for all time.
The sequel trilogy is akin to an Olympic vaulter. In The Force Awakens, they're sprinting toward the springboard and everything looks OK so far even if nothing exciting has happened yet. In The Rise of Skywalker, they hit the springboard, launch off the vaulting table and they're just flying through the air, flipping around, and oh my God, they've gone so high, they're just tumbling and spinning and is it even possible for them to stick this landing? You just have to trust they're experts here and if they can stick this it will be amazing. In The Rise of Skywalker, our gymnast comes careening to to floor and oh no the floor is bare concrete and they haven't got the right angle anyway and they smash face first and teeth are flying and bones are crunching and blood is everywhere, everywhere and now you recognize they were just overconfident assholes with no plan and that exciting second part means nothing now. If only we could have frozen them in midair to enjoy the spectacle and left them hanging there for all time.
Purple
(She/Her)
Well you see, the whole new trilogy is exceptionally metatextual, with the First Order in particular largely standing in for the element of the fandom that somehow managed to miss the whole point thinking the villains are super cool and embracing some fashy values and aesthetics. So in order to stay true to that, and maintain the sketchy fan theory that the badguys score a big win in every odd numbered entry, caving to the demands of said "fans" with a bunch of terrible last minute changes only made sense.
RoS is not the worst movie I've ever seen, but it was definitely the biggest disappointment I've had at the movie theater in years. At the end of it I looked at the husband and the pup and said, "it's like they took somebody's fanfic and then spent a quarter of a billion dollars filming it."
there are some beautiful shots. some good action sequences. (the duel on Kylo's Star Destroyer is just nifty.) But the whole thing feels... hollow, and it also definitely reads as though they ran out of time on screenwriting and had to start shooting from a script that was several drafts away from being coherent.
on the positive side though the Mandalorian was truly enjoyable and holy smokes that WAS the Darksaber in the finale omg omg
there are some beautiful shots. some good action sequences. (the duel on Kylo's Star Destroyer is just nifty.) But the whole thing feels... hollow, and it also definitely reads as though they ran out of time on screenwriting and had to start shooting from a script that was several drafts away from being coherent.
on the positive side though the Mandalorian was truly enjoyable and holy smokes that WAS the Darksaber in the finale omg omg
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I’ve often said that JJ Abrams should not ever do serialized storytelling, and RoS is a good example of why.
That being said...
I enjoyed RoS. I’d put it around the middle of the series as a whole, but it was fun to watch, and that’s really the only quality I look for in a movie.
That being said...
I enjoyed RoS. I’d put it around the middle of the series as a whole, but it was fun to watch, and that’s really the only quality I look for in a movie.
I don't hate RoS, it does have its moments (the aforementioned duel on the Star Destroyer with the zipping back and forth between perspectives, the later duel on the ruins of the Death Star, Hux getting absolutely punked like the sad little man he is, Luke's pep talk, Babu Frick) but it did a whole lot of things wrong too (the double dose of 'oh no beloved main character has DIED oh wait nevermind lol' of Chewie and Threepio, forcing a drug trafficking backstory onto the character played by the hispanic actor, Kylo getting a big damn hero death that he absolutely did not earn, whatever the hell the Emperor's plan was, the thoughtless sidelining of Rose Tico, "Rey Skywalker").
It was one of the weakest films in the saga overall, absolutely the weakest of the sequel trilogy, and just disappointing all around.
It was one of the weakest films in the saga overall, absolutely the weakest of the sequel trilogy, and just disappointing all around.
counter-counterpoint: the Obi-Wan storyline in AotC is enjoyable, and the last third of the movie on Geonosis is pulpy dumb fun. AotC's big sin is that the central romance is extremely wooden and creepy and just doesn't work
but, like: AotC coheres as a movie in a way that RoS does not.
in my personal opinion, RoS, AotC, and TPM are all pretty darn bad and it's a matter of individual taste as to where you rank them, but there's a pretty clear gulf of quality between them and the other 6 Skywalker Saga films.
I would object on the grounds that AotC at least has a pretty spiffy space battle between Obi Wan and Jango; it uses the setting cleverly, shows off both pilots' skills,
(I come to SW for the space battles, not the laser swords, so RotS stings.)
On that note, Solo is an ultimately great movie whose major sin is being overeager to explain things that no one needed explained, but which has good to great characters, amazing set pieces, and a main lead that gets unfairly maligned for not being Young Harrison Ford.
but being Young Harrison Ford was the brief for the job!!
It's not that Alden Ehrenreich was terrible; it's that he was just blandly fine and every other major character in the film was more interesting than him. This is a major flaw when the film is named after him and he's supposed to be a veritable fountain of charisma!
There are great set pieces, Young Lando is a fucking delight, I enjoyed Kira. It's fine! I enjoyed seeing it on a movie date with the pup. I then forgot the majority of the content of the movie within literally hours.
I will give Solo credit for providing a fun explanation for the Parsec thing, and was otherwise not disappointed with the film, merely Disinterested.
Felt neither joy nor pity when the credits rolled, merely 2 hours older.
Felt neither joy nor pity when the credits rolled, merely 2 hours older.
Ironically, while explaining far too much about things we don't really care about --the dice, the blaster, the dilapidated look of the Falcon-- the film teases us with actually very interesting characters we DO want to know more about, and then barely develops them.
And ALL of them are main female characters.
And ALL of them are main female characters.
I don't know why Revenge of the Sith gets left out of worst Star Wars conversations. It has the most important job in the prequels and totally botches it. The opening sequence is full of tonal whiplashes, most of the rest of it is boring, and the scene of Anakin's downfall, which should be tragic, is laughable and stupid.
TROS is a serviceable sequel to TFA and a very disappointing sequel to TLJ.
I actually liked it more than I expected to based on early reactions I saw. It's fine. It's a Star War. My family, who care less about SW than me, enjoyed it a great deal. But it takes TLJ's fundamental question of "Can this new Star Wars trilogy be something deeper and more meaningful than a retread of itself?" And answers "No," for cowardly reasons.
I actually liked it more than I expected to based on early reactions I saw. It's fine. It's a Star War. My family, who care less about SW than me, enjoyed it a great deal. But it takes TLJ's fundamental question of "Can this new Star Wars trilogy be something deeper and more meaningful than a retread of itself?" And answers "No," for cowardly reasons.
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Star Wars has more movies that I don't like than ones I do at this point. Here are my positive opinions:
I adore Star Wars, TESB, and TLJ.
I have soured on ROTJ somewhat, but I still like it. The throne room scenes are phenomenal.
The Force Awakens is a lot of fun, and the first 30 minutes or so are excellent. The rest of it devolves into a series of set pieces that have a few great scenes.
I'm trying to get away from calling media bad or arguing about it, because that's a waste of time and doesn't help anybody. But, I only like 2 of the last 8 movies, which is just a terrible record. I went from it being my favorite thing, to something I'm generally wary of. It's just kind of a bummer.
I adore Star Wars, TESB, and TLJ.
I have soured on ROTJ somewhat, but I still like it. The throne room scenes are phenomenal.
The Force Awakens is a lot of fun, and the first 30 minutes or so are excellent. The rest of it devolves into a series of set pieces that have a few great scenes.
The prequel trilogy were disappointments to me and I hated them for a long time. I've come around to the idea that they have a lot of good qualities, but are just not movies that I enjoy watching.
I really didn't like Rogue One, and the second time I watched it I liked it less. I think I dislike all of the characters, and Vader killing people doesn't do anything for me. It's a pretty movie, but it's missing basic storytelling qualities.
I liked a few things in Solo, but there's really not enough there for me. I agree that it doesn't treat any of the female characters well. I dunno, I only watched it once and I don't really want to see it again.
I actively disliked watching TROS. It's the movie that least understood what appeals to me about Star Wars, and individual scenes barely held together aside from momentum and special effects. I have no interest in rewatching it.
I really didn't like Rogue One, and the second time I watched it I liked it less. I think I dislike all of the characters, and Vader killing people doesn't do anything for me. It's a pretty movie, but it's missing basic storytelling qualities.
I liked a few things in Solo, but there's really not enough there for me. I agree that it doesn't treat any of the female characters well. I dunno, I only watched it once and I don't really want to see it again.
I actively disliked watching TROS. It's the movie that least understood what appeals to me about Star Wars, and individual scenes barely held together aside from momentum and special effects. I have no interest in rewatching it.
I'm trying to get away from calling media bad or arguing about it, because that's a waste of time and doesn't help anybody. But, I only like 2 of the last 8 movies, which is just a terrible record. I went from it being my favorite thing, to something I'm generally wary of. It's just kind of a bummer.
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
Yep, I agree. Most Star Wars is good, and I'd put Solo at the bottom end of the good ones. Also gets points for featuring Lando without making him look like a massive pervert.
I've been watching Star Wars reaction videos and Revenge of the Sith is generally the most fun. People hate the Emperor by the end.
I actually like Solo a lot but, as noted, it's due to everyone other than Solo.
I'd watch a whole movie about Enfys Nest, or about Lando and L3-37. Or even about Qi'ra and how she overthrows Maul in time for him to be poking around in old Sith ruins in Rebels. Doctor Aphra could help.
I'd watch a whole movie about Enfys Nest, or about Lando and L3-37. Or even about Qi'ra and how she overthrows Maul in time for him to be poking around in old Sith ruins in Rebels. Doctor Aphra could help.
Kylo should have ended the movie serving penitence on Ahch-To under the judgmental gaze of the fish nuns
But honestly what bugs me most about TROS is:
MAJOR
-Blatantly sidelining Rose in response to racist "fan" whinging
-Not giving Finn the FO stormtrooper rebellion leadership role he clearly should have had (leading to a weird dissonance as we watch FO destroyers go down in flames around the galaxy, knowing they're full of kidnapped children just like him)
MINOR
-Ion cannons don't fire like that
-TIE/ln fighters do not have hyperdrives
-Two cheap character death fakeouts. One is OK. Two is LAZY.
But honestly what bugs me most about TROS is:
MAJOR
-Blatantly sidelining Rose in response to racist "fan" whinging
-Not giving Finn the FO stormtrooper rebellion leadership role he clearly should have had (leading to a weird dissonance as we watch FO destroyers go down in flames around the galaxy, knowing they're full of kidnapped children just like him)
MINOR
-Ion cannons don't fire like that
-TIE/ln fighters do not have hyperdrives
-Two cheap character death fakeouts. One is OK. Two is LAZY.
Now don't start this again
SAY IT AGAIN LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
He can start it all he wants but just make a whole other thread again. That was a good thread!
Phantoon
I cuss you bad
How did Kylo get to Exogol seeing as he didn't have a) a ship b) a wayfinder?
Why did they crash the Falcon for no reason?
"I'm every Jedi, it's all in me" the Force doesn't work like that
Why does the Emperor's genius plan to not kill Rey start with him telling Kylo to kill Rey?
Normally I don't nitpick, but here we are
Yes.
I think technology is allowed to improve over time without having to explain it
It was an old tie fighter that he found in the death star ruins. So, it probably shouldn't have a hyperdrive.
But, in addition to being filled with weird errors, TROS is also super confusing. I had a hard time following everything, and my initial post after watching the movie had a few complaints that were actually explained somewhere or other in the movie. So, I don't blame anyone for missing that.
But, in addition to being filled with weird errors, TROS is also super confusing. I had a hard time following everything, and my initial post after watching the movie had a few complaints that were actually explained somewhere or other in the movie. So, I don't blame anyone for missing that.
Guys, I think JJ Abrams is bad at movies